respektingme

Was out of town Th-Fr-Sa and returned Sunday around 1pm with the kids. AH was wasted. It's really pretty rare that he's visibly drunk when the kids are around, like really rare. So, he was passed out downstairs and I kind of kept the kids entertained upstairs. Well, we had been talking with a counselor who had advised us to talk to our son about it. But AH kept dodging the conversation, so I went ahead and told our son. He was a little upset. He said he had no idea. I felt like I dumped a burden on him since he didn't have any idea. But he would have found out sometime, and I tried to keep it light. Told him that the adults will do everything to care for him and that I told him so that if he has any questions, he can ask them freely.

AH was supposed to be somewhere work related that afternoon. He was too trashed and asked me to call on his behalf. I declined. So, this is now the first time his work has been effected. Knocked out 2 "yets" on the same day.

I didn't harrass him while he was drunk. I went to our bedroom and was organizing stuff. He came upstairs, climbed into bed and must have said, "You're fat.... but I love you" about 10 times. Whatever.

So, of course, now his tune is Mr. Humble-Nice. Which is convenient for me because my best friend and her daughter are coming tonight to stay for 3 days. AH is predictable. He'll be Mr. Nice for about a week or two, until the cravings really kick in. Then he'll turn into Mr. Self-Righteous and then Mr. Vodka.

I told him this morning that if we split because he chooses to continue drinking, that I'd hope it would be amicable. What I really want is to be able to move out west without him fighting me. I don't think that's too much to ask. I mean, perhaps it's too idealistic for me to think that could happen. But my family is out west. If he chooses the bottle over his family, then it would be nice if HE accepted the consequences of his actions for once and didn't fight me tooth and nail. And I don't think he would. And obviously I couldn't stop him if he did. But it would be nice.

Well, it would be nice if he'd stop drinking. But it doesn't appear he's going to. Weird how he's been working overtime to lose weight for his class reunion in 3 weeks. He just dropped 4k on veneers for his tobacco-stained teeth. All his focus has been on impressing his former classmates for the last several months. He wants to dazzle them with his looks and his career. Woohoo!! What a vision of success he wants to project. I think I burst his bubble yesterday when I told him I didn't think going was a good idea. No skin off my nose if he goes, because I'll have peace since I backed out several months ago. But he'll be staying at his mother's house and be around friends who will be partying for 3 days straight. Where is the priority???? Impressing them and getting uncontrollably wasted? And he admitted that will happen and said it even concerns him because it means he'll either wind up face down in front of his friends or his mother since he won't be home and he can't stop once he starts. Personally, being face down in front of his mother might be nice since she seems to think his problem is all in my head. Anyway, it's up to him. I'm in no way controlling whether he goes or not. I simply told him I didn't think it was a good idea and told him I think his priorities are whacked by focusing on appearances so much when it's what's on the inside that needs fixing.

For the record, about me and what I'm doing. I'm busy with the kids having fun this summer, practicing tennis every morning, traveling, going to water parks, hanging out with family, etc. This downturn in the housing market is really going to work to my advantage. Housing prices haven't changed where I live, but they have really gone down out west and that was a big concern for me. When they were so high, I didn't see how we could afford to get back out there. I'm thinking about getting into pharmaceutical sales. I have what is required, a degree and no experience. Sounds terrific. I'm good with people, fluent, typically can write well (not when I'm rambling here necessarily). I'm organizing my house and getting rid of clutter so when we do make a split, I won't have to do it all then.

My AH put me through HELL with his 3 now adult daughters. Funny that we'd survive that mess and then have it all end after they are grown. While they never realized their father was manipulating them to think he was the hero (ahhh, to compensate his ego for being an alcoholic, go figure) and I was the villian, I so look forward to never ever having to see their faces again. Or his mother's face. They all have loved acting out all over under their father's blind eye (wink wink) and aligning themselves against me, the "devil". It's been horrible having to pretend they don't despise me at every holiday. Last Christmas, his 24-yr-old opened all the gifts I got for her (signed from "us" but AH was too busy guzzling to shop with me) and threw them on the floor. Then she collected them later and stormed off. She can't say why she hates me, she just knows that she does. That's what her sister says anyway.

I do look forward to peace. I don't look forward to the transition, particularly trying to sell a house in this market. Yikes! What do you do when you're trying to split and your house stays on the market forever? Rent and then buy later when the funds are available?

theotherone

It's amazing how people in the A's life find it so easy to blame "the other one" and not the A for the madness. I too have a stepdaughter who thought that I was the "evil one". Today she knows more of the truth just through maturity and her own awareness. She has nothing to do with her father but wants to know her brothers.

It's a shame they choose to blame instead of getting to know you and seperate what could be a great relationship, very different from the one with the addiction. It's their loss.

I too am getting ready for a transition...getting rid of the clutter one closet at a time and painting and replacing doors and faucets. It's a learning experience and I'm finding a character builder...I'm doing things I didn't know I could do and I'm doing them quite well! My boys are helping too and learning along with me...We're high fiving life all the way through! I like the new me and continue to discover new things about me all the time. I like it and more impotantly, I like me!

I think the trip will open alot of eyes...wish him a good time...let mom experience what's in store for her future...let someone else pick him up when he falls...or let him lay there. It's his choice.

Life is good...you are good...and getting better everyday.

Chrysalis123

You may want to check with a lawyer to find out what your states requires in regards to parenting time.

My XAH has been angry, mean, and vindictive since the scales fell off my eyes, I came to senses, and started taking care of myself. People tell me what a great guy he is and how nice he is...if they only knew what really was going on.

I admire your courage for taking all those steps to get ready for your future. Keep up the good work.

Pajarito

I also admire what you are doing- living your life. It sounds like you have a promising future ahead of you. I'm sorry you've had to go through the hell of him and his family. I'm starting to wonder about the family thing too. My STBXAH is probably telling them what he wants to- obviously I am the bad guy. I think they are taking sides- and I'm not part of the core group anymore- same with his friends. Oh well. . . I know what happened, I know he isn't the great guy, the poor victim they may think he is. I say that because HE thinks that's what he is. Thank God I'm no longer delusional. I like that comment about the scales finally being off your eyes. It's also how I feel- like I can finally see. Keep on trucking, my friend.

I'm also trying to get our house ready to sell, so I wonder about the same things you are wondering about. I believe things will fall into place just the way they are supposed to. I can only do what I can do- get it looking HGTV fabulous! :o)

As for your son. . . I am sure he will be ok if you are ok. You've been honest with him- which is what he needs. If you are healthy and can talk to him when he needs to, he will be so much better off. I'm sure he knew something wasn't right, but maybe didn't know what. Be the stable, loving, healthy parent, and he'll be fine.

Take care!

nowinsituation

I have let this eat away at my serenity, also. If they do see how bad he has deteriorated I felt guilty and those "outsiders" would think it was all my fault because in their eyes he certainly wasn't that bad while I was there. I know that he was that bad, and if he still is that bad it just proves to me that I really had no power over it.

On the flip side, my fear is that now that I am gone he is all of a sudden doing so much better, and that those same "outsiders" must think that all of the problems must have been because of me, since everything is fine now that I am gone. Then I remind myself that if he is in fact better since I left, that also proves that I was powerless, that he could only save himself and there was nothing I could do.

Bottom line -- I was (and still am) powerless.

Lilyflower

Hmmmm, my exabf is apparently doing sooo much better to. He is drinking still, but he has apparently managed to control it. Yeah, ok. I know that that is probably just a ruse. I'm waiting for the proverbial poop to hit the fan, there is no way you can go from being a confessed alcoholic to being able to drink normally. He thinks he can because his friend did the same thing years ago. I know that friend very well, he found religion and his faith helped him to gain sobriety, he cut down yes true, but he then stopped completely, and is now a monk.

Respektingme, I would personally let him go, make a fool of himself in front of his old school mates! Let others see. I love that you are focusing on you and your children and enjoying your summer. I am sure your 11yr old will be fine. I agree that now he knows and can talk to you about whatever he may see happening, is great for him. As alcoholism progresses, it was only a matter of time before he and your other kids began to see their dad drunk.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

respektingme

Oh surrre. When I got home Sunday, there was a one litre empty vodka bottle by AH.

Went upstairs and opened the fridge to get something to eat. Now, MY favorite beer is a Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout. It's thick, like a good steak, and I may have one in a year or so. I hardly ever think about it and haven't had one since I can remember. I like the taste, but I'm not a big beer drinker so I have maybe one. Besides that, they are expensive. So anyway, there was a big bottle of Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout in the fridge.

My AH thought he'd have a party in his recliner with some vodka and a social drink, the beer he thinks is the best since he knows I think they are good. The joke is that he never even got to the beer. Once the vodka was in the house, it made the beer look like a joke.

Was nice for me though. I went to a neighborhood function that night and took the beer with me. Was tasty!!!

But like you said, I really doubt your ex is maintaining. My AH tells his other kids and his mother that he's doing great! He plays it down so much that they think it's all in my head. If I was gone, he'd be doing the same to me. I'll never know how much he's really drinking until he lost his job or had some other tangible measure of his disease.

TTOSBT

Respectingme,
You sound like you have your eye on the prize and are doing wonderfully. Good luck!
I am sorry but I SOOO hope he goes to the reunion, gets plastered, embarrasses himself there and at his mothers. Let them all see him for who he is!
Good for you taking care of the kids and I do agree that moving to be close to your family is a wonderful idea!
You can attempt to buy contingent on your selling or rent while you wait as you said.

nowwhat

I don't know about moving across the country (although I understand the desire)--sounds like your AH is not a terrible parent, just a sick one. . .

However, I do want to comment about the house/sale/situation. I would imagine you are entitled to some maintenance that could help you while you are figuring out independence. Unless your state is very different from mine, you could probably live very comfortably while you are establishing a career for yourself. It might actually make more sense for you NOT to work until you have a settlement agreement. (Unless you have some kind of pre-nup?)

respektingme

He's not the only sick one. His mother managed to systematically get his other 3 children to live with her. She is massively controlling. His entire family is full of drama.

He's told me more than once if we split, he'd probably just drink faster and get to his grave faster. He told me Sunday (while drunk) if he were me, he would have left a long time ago.

I wouldn't be punishing him by moving across the country. It's where my family is and lots of them. We live near his family right now and they want to control. They don't know how to love. They dominate.

Take into account that I would probably no longer be able to fly me and the kids to even visit my family much anymore (airfares $$$), I'd be stuck here and we only moved here a year ago. I don't have any close friends or relatives here. We moved here for his job, and when he gets fired, he's got the type of job that he'll have to move across the country to get another one. There's nothing even anchoring him here.

I think I'm best moving the kids somewhere where we'll have serenity, live close to family, and be close to places we love and away from AH's drinking and his psycho family members. I know based on history, that his mother will come flying into the picture and take over the show if we get divorced. She rammed his ex into the ground. She has some $$ and isn't afraid to use it. She's used it well to manipulate his other children who are now adults. The oldest told me last year when she needs new clothes, she asks Grandma to meet her at the mall. They have her figured out. I don't ever want my kids being manipulated with $$.

I don't have a crystal ball. But the future for active alcoholics is usually bleak. If we leave here, he's free to fall just as fast as he wants. I'd rather my kids not have to visit every other weekend to watch his downward spiral.

About working... I need some confidence in the workplace. I need to experience life outside of the home again. I won't make much when I do go out. Any income I make would pale in comparison to his. I was thinking about substitute teaching. I don't think it would make much difference in the scheme of things. I haven't worked in 12 years.

Barbara52

You may have good reasons for wanting to move cross country. But, a judge is going to decide what happens (unless your AH willingly agrees to such a move) based on what is best for the children, not your desires, and that is usually interpreted to have both parents active in the children's lives. It would be unusual for a judge to tell one parent it is ok to move cross country. Its unusual for a judge to deny at least frequent visitation without very strong evidence that it should be denied. Alcoholism in and of itself does not qualify as a reason for denying parental rights. He is their father and has a right to be part of their lives.

I would not get your hopes and dreams set until you have discussed this all with an attorney and find out what is possible and what is likely. You may be setting yourself up for disappointment.

respektingme

The very day his boss ever finds out he has a problem, he'll lose his job. At the rate he's failing, it won't be long. I don't think my AH would fight me. If we split because of his drinking, I think he'll just be glad his kids will have one solid parent to look after them.

Barbara52

I hope you are right and it all goes as you want. But I wouldn't make your plans without checking out whether what you want is possible. Custody laws and such can be tricky.

sadandhopeless

You are an inspiration! I hope you get to move back west to be with your family and be surrounded by sober people and love and happiness and good times.

I do worry about your son. He is young, so just keep an eye on him and make sure he fully understands that non of what is going on - the split up or the drinking is his fault. It seems that children always think problems like this are caused by them. Give him lots of love and hugs.

Keep us posted on what you are doing. You are my inspiration.

juju

You may not have a crystal ball, but you’ve got a good head on your shoulders! (Hey, I bet if you shaved your head and polished it real well, there might be some resemblance....LOL!)

Barbara52 does make a good point, though. It would suck to have all these awesome plans only to have a judge nix them all. And, as you know, these ah’s are very unpredictable. Is there a lawyer there who may give you free advice on the matter?

I’ve read recently about how us “spouses” are always seen as the “bad guys”. We spend so much of our time trying to change the things we can’t, getting frustrated, stressed out, and aggravated. I know I find that I try and over-control my kids sometimes, just to compensate for my lack of “control” over ah. I’m working on that one! I guess I have no point about that, but just that you’re not alone.

Send me some of those strong, I know what I want and I'm gonna get it vibes!!

juju

respektingme

Thanks everyone. While I agree it would be up to the judge to decide where we would be able to live and how custody would be arranged, I found this:

"ABA (American Bar Association) Family Legal Guide
Family Law
3.4 Separation, Annulment, and Divorce
Custody
What is the most important factor in deciding custody?

That will vary with the facts of each case. If one parent has a major problem with alcoholism or mental illness, has abused the child, or has committed domestic violence, that could be the deciding factor."

I rarely leave the kids home alone with my AH. I never leave town without them, or without having a relative stay here. Why? Because he has been an alcoholic for years. I started documenting his drinking when our son was about 2. He's 11 now. I once saw an attorney who said she had never seen anyone with such thorough documentation.

While my ability to pack up and go may not be guaranteed, I can't see a judge giving him joint custody when he clearly has no control over his alcoholism and can't trust himself to watch the kids sober while I make a trip to the grocery store. He's been to rehab and he's been going to AA for 9 years. He's been to 3 different therapists. Plenty of documentation of his problem. There's more as well. While the kids do deserve to have their father in their lives, they also deserve a chance at a sane childhood and that's not going to happen as long as his bottle is in the picture.

I found several occasions where parents received sole custody in my state after the spouse was proven to be an alcoholic. I'll have no problem proving it. We have no ties to this area. And given his history of jumping jobs every 3 years and his current dissatisfaction level with his current position, there's no reason that a judge would find this place to be a permanent residence for me and the kids. Particularly when my family out west has been there for several generations. He can afford to fly out for a visit whenever he wanted to.

He has never really tried to quit. I think that alone is just stupid. He calls his benders "relapses". They aren't. He's never stopped. He knows the choice he's making. If we leave because of it, he'll probably fold up and blow away. He failed a life insurance exam in 2005 because of extremely elevated liver enzymes. His body is probably already suffering the consequences of his drinking.

About the only reason I think he'd give me a big fight is if his mother put him up to it. Even then I don't think she could motivate him to fight me. I pushed him to get custody of one of his other children, after his ex abandoned her with his mother (actually his mother made her life miserable and she fled back to her home country). He got mad that we spent $10k on the fight and yelled at me one day that he never wanted to get custody of her. What????? I assumed any man would want to raise his own kid rather than have his mother do it. Nope. He admitted he didn't want to bring her to live with us. He doesn't want the responsibility of raising kids, any of them. He wants the bottle, and that's allllllllllll.

Barbara52

A common misconception in custody is that joint custody means joint physical custody. It doesn't. One parent can have sole physical custody (often the mother by default) of the children while both share joint legal custody. THis means the noncustodial parent shares in the decisions concerning the children (amongst other things).

As much as I understand your thought processes and that you want to have sole physical and legal custody of the children, its not likely to happen. You may be able to document he is an alcoholic.

But even an alcoholic has the right to be a father to his children to the best of his ability.

Even if he is willing to give that up voluntarily, a judge is unlikely to take away all parental rights, which is what it sounds like you want to happen. You may be able to get limited visitation or even supervized visitation but you are unlikely IMO to get what you think you can get. At least not without a very long and expensive court fight.

respektingme

I want to live where I have a family, a support system. I don't plan to deny him visitation with the kids.

respektingme

He may have the RIGHT to father his children, but first he has to have the DESIRE.

Barbara52

Sorry but you plan to move a substantial distance does just that. And a judge is likely to slap that down. The best interests of the children is the standard in these things and the best interests of the children almost always includes regular involvement of both parents, even the obviously flawed ones. Unless you are right and your AH gives it up. Just don't plan on getting there without his active cooperation.

You may be right that he has no desire to be their father. How very sad that is, for him and the children.

I wouldn't be quite so gleeful about it if I were in your position.