He's seeing someone else

Old 07-17-2008, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hbb View Post
Only last night for the FIRST time in over a year (granted i was never married) I heard some gossip about Jay and i actually said "i could care less"!!! And the best part....i meant it! I can TOTALLY understand that feeling of the other person will bring out the best....not the case, this is who he is, and if it changes it will be for a very very short time! You have done things so tastefully all along and i'm starting to think that good people do get rewarded for that. Paj, like you've told me in the past, keep going forward, this is a blip in the road that will soon pass. hugs
Yes- I know you know what this is like, my friend. Good for you for being in a place now where you can say you don't care. (((hugs)))
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hopeangel View Post
hey paj, can't really add to any of the great responses above - but i am thinking about you and my heart goes out to you. just trust that you are right where you are meant to be at this very moment and that it is all for a reason.

your a great woman and someone one day will appreciate that!!!

(((((hugs)))))))
They are great responses- and I am so grateful to all of you for being here. I was struggling this morning with so much sadness, and knew I couldn't call anyone- so I thought I'd start a thread about it. I am finding that when I am sad I internalize it or hide out- lurking here. I'm trying to break myself of that habit. Each time I reach out I am amazed at how much support I get. Thank you!
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:56 PM
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Hang in there Paj. We are all here for you. Time will heal
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:14 PM
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Hi Paj.... ****{hug}}}

I can definitely identify with grieving for what one's marriage Should have been with the man one's husband was years ago........those are very very sad shoes to be in.....but it will wear off...
If you're immersed in it now, it's important to acknowledge that and just work thru it till it fades.

Maybe the woman your STBXAH is involved with abuses alcohol, too !
They'll deserve each other !
If she's not an alcohol abuser, she will find herself to be the codependant.....and, in time, he will be exposed for the selfish A that he is.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Pajarito View Post
So B52- knowing what you do about his shenanigans- do you feel anything for him?
First off, I was involved with my xAH only a total of 6 yrs and we had no children together. So my circumstances are a good bit different. I ddidn't have the long history with xAH that you have with your AH.

Yes, I feel a strong caring and compassion for him. I am saddened by what I see coming his way. The way we were living together killed my love for him before I had left. But I still hope he finds his way to recovery and pray for him daily. I care but his behaviors and choices don't really get to me anymore. I get truly annoyed at his continued passive agressive behavior toward me since we still have the sale of the house pending that requires some interaction. At the moment he is ignoring my request for a dollar amount for the repairs that we must do onthe house before te closing 8/7. That annoys me but that's about it.


Originally Posted by Pajarito View Post
But I think of who he WAS- or who I thought he was- that's where I get tripped up.
That where the whole "potential" thing comes in. I mourn for how my xAH is not living up to what I see as his potential, I was in love with the man I thought he was not who he really is. It was very hard admitting I had made such a misjudgement about him and that I wilfully ignored what I knew to be true about the real him befre we married. But dealing with my issues around all this is worth it already and will continue to be as I come to even greater understanding and acceptance of me as I am.

Originally Posted by Pajarito View Post
I think- oh, maybe she'll bring out the best in him, he'll finally step up to the plate and be who I was hoping he'd be. It's a mind #$%& if you know what I mean. <<<Bigfatsigh>>>
There where I differ big time. I do not see this new GF (or any other woman down the road) as making a positive difference in the way xAH progresses down his personal road. He is on a path to self destruction until he is ready to admit he is an alcoholic and to begin recovery.

Heck if another individual could have made a difference, if xAH loving someone could make a difference, I would have thought his love of his 2 daughters would have done it. It hasn't. He has a fantasy in his head about his relationship with them and how good it is.

No one has the power to bring him to where he needs to be to change his life, to admit to his alcoholism and to deal with it. Only he can do that.

If he does go and start living near or with the GF in Kansas, all I see happening is the same thing that happened with me, a temporary relationship where he continue to pretend to himself and her that life is great until the house of cards falls down yet again.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:37 PM
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I officially ended my relationship with Richard on my 45th birthday. Fast forward three years later, and I'm still not ready to find a new partner. It takes time to mend a broken heart. Over the past three years, my feelings have run the gamut: from overwhelming feelings of pain, loss, and sadness to intense feelings of love to feelings of ambilivence, anger, and confusion. I think it's all part of the grieving process.

And while I, too, realize that I was deceived for much of my relationship, just like you, my love for my partner was honest, genuine, and freely given.

With the help of Alanon and my friends at SR, I'm working on redefining my definition of the word love. I'm sorry you're hurting today.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:56 PM
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Pajarito, so sorry you're hurting today.

I stayed with X for a long time, even through affairs which were much more than emotional, because I was afraid of the very thing you're describing.

From that desperate place, by taking one small step at a time in the right direction every day, I've gotten to here where, like hbb, I receive news and shrug and think "and this interests me how?" Mine's on his sixth, maybe seventh since me. At first, like you've said, it hurt really badly, because I wanted so much for him to feel what I wanted him to feel.

But very soon, I started on that gentle road to, "See ya, wouldn't want to be ya."

Tomorrow will be better.

The next day, even better.

Your life is yours, to do with as you please. Bless you for being the woman you are...you are a better, deeper, kinder person than he can ever hope to be, and this is just the proof. I'll be dancing in the street when you ultimately find the person who recognizes what he's found. Lucky him!

Hugs to you,
GL
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:29 PM
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My cautionary tale: my AH separated five years ago for about nine months. Alcohol was not yet a problem, but I felt that I needed him to treat me better so I left--my house. I expected him to work like hell to "get me" back (the scene in Say Anything came to mind) and I expected to work on myself, finish school and run my already successful business while allowing him to "get me" back. What happened was that I found out he found another girl pretty quickly into the separation and I turned into a stalker/drive-by extraordinaire. I did not like this, oh no. It wasn't fair that he found someone else and I would be left alone for the rest of my life--a laughing stock!! It culminated into what turned into an immature high school confrontation between myself and the girl, which was beneath me to say the least, and she backed off. He and I got back together--a flimsy promise to treat me better was made--and best of all, I wasn't ALONE anymore! Five years, a horribly failed business, two kids and one raging alcoholic later...

The point is, if I had sat in the uncomfortable misery of the situation for even a moment before reacting as I did, I would have realized it was my ego that was flattened by this. If I had just thought about the fact that it wasn't about him, but it was about her and the fact I thought she was "getting" something that "belonged" to me. Who knows what I could have been had I just allowed myself to feel those feelings and learn those lessons? Will I make the same mistake twice when I do leave him? I really don't think so.

I think about that girl a lot. She probably thinks about me and thanks me as his drunken exploits are pretty legendary around our small town. Perhaps one day she'll send me a gift certificate to the local grocery store as a symbol of thanks. These days I could sure use it.
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:44 PM
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I was thinking about xAH and how I feel about him having found a new love. It struck me that although I have big doubts about the relationship he has with this new GF, those doubts are actually based on what I see as his problems related to his unadmitted alcoholism. That is only part of what I feel about it. It would make me happy if he actually has found a new love. I wish him no ill and do want him to be happy. If he can be happy with this or some other woman, that would be wonderful.
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:54 PM
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My XABF is still with the woman he left me for...three years later. she drinks too and she strokes his ego. She does all the things I never would...like giving in to his every demand, buying booze, drinking with him, being a puppet and morphing into whatever he wants her to. A friend told me they are moving. I hope they move far away because they only live 2 minutes from me. I hoped he would someday realize how much he hurt me. But I guess not. It still hurts sometimes and i am still working on me but he really did a number on me. She lied to me too so there's that. I could never be with him again and I have all but given up the idea that he might at least apologise to me someday and really mean it.

I guess he found the perfect enabler. Glad Its not me anymore.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:58 PM
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Hey Paj-
Sorry I got onto SR late today, or I would have offered you support sooner today!

So wonderful that everyone jumped in to hug you with all of these great posts. I can only "ditto" all of the suggestions above and lament my own BS with my stbxBF.

I'd swear that all of these addicts and alkies HAVE MASTERS DEGREES FROM SELFISH DEFIANT INSENSITIVE MANIPULATION UNIVERSITY....UGH.

We look at the "what if"...the potential of what they will or could be when they dry out.
We see the glass as half full...we're positive, supportive people.
But what we don't do is focus on the NOW. The reality of what IS.

Yes, your stbxAH is off in denial land with a new distraction who he can bullsh*t to...and take advantage of....until she too realizes that he is using her as well. He might seek out other codie chicks knowing she will keep him from having to deal with mature, responsible adulthood...at least til she figures it out.

I know you feel used and abused....taken advantage of....and insecure in your womanhood that you "WEREN'T ENOUGH FOR HIM TO MAKE HIM CHANGE"....(what is wrong with ME that I couldn't be the one to turn him around???")

I saved this and read it daily. It's from Former Doormat, in a previous thread:


But he has such potential"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"But he has such potential." "When he's not drinking he's the sweetest, kindest, gentlest man I know." These are phrases I hear often on SR and two I used for many years until I was able to chip away my layers of denial and see my situation for what it really was.

In his book, "The Gift of Fear," Gavin DeBecker addressed this issue in a way I thought might be useful to others on this forum, so I'll share it here:

One of the most common errors in selecting a boyfriend or spouse is basing the prediction on potential. This is actually predicting what certain elements might add up to in some different context: He isn't working now, but he could be really successful. He's going to be a great artist--of course he can't paint under present circumstances. He's a little edgy and aggressive these days, but that's just until he gets settled.

Listen to the words: isn't working; can't paint; is aggressive. What a person is doing now is the context for successful predictions, and marrying a man on the basis of potential, or for that matter hiring an employee solely on the basis of potential, is a sure way to interfere with intiution. That's because the focus on potential carries our imagination to how things might be or could be and away from how they are now.

Spousal abuse is comitted by people who are with remarkable frequency described by their victims as having been "the sweetest, the gentlest, the kindest, the most attentive," etc. Indeed, many were all of these things during the selection process and often still are--between violent incidents.

But even though these men are frequently kind and gentle in the beginning, there are always warning signs. Victims, however, may not always choose to detect them. I made these points on a recent television interview, and a young woman called in and said, "You're wrong, there's no way you can tell when a man will turn out to be violent. It just happens out of no where." She went on to describe how her ex-husband, an avid collector of weapons, became possessive immediately after her marriage, made her account for all of her time, didn't allow her to have a car, and frequently displayed jealously.

Could these things be warning signs?

In continuing her description of this awful man, she said, "His first wife died as a result of beatings he gave her."

Could that have been a warning sign? But people don't see the signs, maybe because our process of falling in love is in large measure the process of choosing not to see faults, and that requires some denial. This denial is doubtless necessary in a culture that glorifies the kind of romance that leads young couples to rush to get married in spite of all the reasons they shouldn't, and fifty-year-old men to follow what is euphemistically called their hearts into relationships with their young secretaries and out of relationships with their middle-aged wives. This is, frankly, the kind of romance that leads to more failed relationships than successful ones.

The issue of selection and choice brings to mind the important work of psychologist Nathaniel Branden, author of "Honoring the Self." He tells of the woman who says: "I have the worst luck with men. Over and over again, I find myself in these relationships with men who are abusive. I just have the worst luck." Luck has very little to do with it, because the glaringly common characteristic of each of this woman's relationships is her. My observations about selection are offered to enlighten victims, not to blame them, for I don't believe that violence is a fair penality for bad choices. But I do believe they are choices.

I also want to share this post from Light Seeker...another great post that helps me when I start spinning:

I think that any time spent thinking that anyone will ever "get" how mistreated I've been is simply a huge waste. No one should ever get a hallpass for being unkind, disrespectful, manipulative, selfish, etc. That includes addicts, recovering addicts, non addicts, etc. It is up to me (us) to determine what is acceptable behavior and what I will expose myself to. Acceptance does not mean accepting poor treatment - it means acceptance that there might be a situation that I can't change in any other way than to have boundaries with consequences in place. Maybe what I have to do is remove myself from the situation.

You can be an extremely kind, compassionate, loving person without being co-dependent. It's all about the motives behind anything. Many times co-dependents hide their true motives from themselves - the kindness, love, compassion, etc. are all given with the price tag of expectations of how we will be treated in return. As in - if I care for you and tend to you, then you will realize how much you need me and will give me the love that I am craving. Until we learn to love in a healthy way, we are drawn again and again and again to those that are unavailable and can't love us in return.

Many people that are co-dependents are also relationship addicts. I've read alot of Charlotte Kasl's work - her book Women, Sex, and Addiction was the biggest eye opener for me. I realized how my relationship addiction played into my co-dependency/alcoholic tendencies perfectly. If you ever find yourself in a one-way love affair it is certainly an area to look into.

I abhor the victim role that I have played for so long - I now see how I teed myself up for the lousy treatment that I have received throughout my life. I've made poor choices in my relationships - finding people that weren't available to love me. I am powerless over a lot of things - and one of the biggest is my desire to be loved (especially by a romantic partner). I have lowered my standards in the past to feed my addiction - the addiction to love and other people. Until I began learning to love myself from the inside out I wasn't able to make healthy decisions in relationships. I always had an excuse about how this person was "different, not understood, just needed someone on their side". Oh well - I thank God every single day that there is a path to walk that leads to recovery from all of our addictions. All of this is why I stand firmly on the principle that we truly are as sick as any addict in our lives that we think needs help.

I think that the world will become a better place when we all learn to honor ourselves and settle for nothing less in return. Easier said than done - I'm well aware. However, if I am taken advantage of because of my kindness then I know that I have set myself up. The 4th step helped me to take a close look at all the resentments that I had accumulated through the years - now I see how my denial, perception issues, low self esteem, self-delusion, poor boundaries all set me up for what ended up being my resentments.
Hope these help.

Hugs,
Rivka
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:04 PM
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Hey Paj: Sorry for the late arrival.

I don't know how I would react if I found out my ex was with someone else. It crosses my mind often. In some ways I think if I found out he was I would never look back or be upset about any of this because it would just tell me he never cared anyway, but I'm sure that's not true just like it's not true in your case.

I know I worry about this because I spent a lot of time questioning if he really loved me. I guess another thing that has bothered me is that I gave all of myself freely to him. I never lied to him or misled him when we were together, so I think finding out on top of all of his lies that he was able to move on so easily would hurt pretty bad. I don't know if that makes any sense.

I think you've shown an amazing amount of strength already. My mom left with 3 kids when we were young. I know it must be hard and it hurts now, but your daughter will be so thankful she had a strong mother when she sees him for what he is when he gets older. I know my sisters and I still thank my mother often for taking us out of all that craziness.

You are worth so much more. Keep focusing on you and you'll get there! I'm nowhere near dating either, but someday I'll be ready for a healthy, mutually respectful relationship. You will too and I know you will find it.

(((Paj)))
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:32 AM
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(((Paj))),

Just sending hugs, girl. I think in time, your HP's time of course, your heart will feel more compassion and sadness for him, but will be full of love for YOURSELF. Take care of you today, and your little girl
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pajarito View Post
I hope one day to put that much hope and love into someone truly worthy of my healthy self.
I just figured out I can quote myself! ;o)

Someone wonderful sent me a private message yesterday and highlighted this comment I had made in one of my posts. . . she reminded me that that someone is ME!

All of your support and stories mean so much to me. Obviously we have all endured so much pain, but I believe we can all get through it with each other. This is really an amazing place. There's always someone- or many of you who have been in recovery for a long time- who can help us to bring the focus back to ourselves. Thank you all for your kind words.:ghug3
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by FormerDoormat View Post
And while I, too, realize that I was deceived for much of my relationship, just like you, my love for my partner was honest, genuine, and freely given.

With the help of Alanon and my friends at SR, I'm working on redefining my definition of the word love. I'm sorry you're hurting today.
This is something I have struggled with- until LTD posted about it- I really felt like I had been a blind fool. How could I have spent so much time on someone who did not appreciate it? Today I feel better knowing that my love was honest, genuine, and freely given- just as you said. His inability to truly appreciate it is his problem- not mine.

I have a friend who has been sober 21 years- a wonderful man- and the difference in his recovery is like day and night in comparison to my STBXAH's "recovery." This man has told me that my ability to love is what makes me wonderful- now I think I know what he means. He's been worried I will develop a cynical attitude about love and relationships. I don't think he'll have anything to worry about. I like that you are redefining your definition of love FD. That's giving me something to think about today. Thanks!
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:07 AM
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I have realized that I was part of the not so choosy women & I got stuck with the ones that were passed over, kicked to the curb and recycled. So I also realized too late, but thank goodness I finally did... That there just aren't enough of the F... haystack men to begin with.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by NYC_Chick View Post
I don't know how I would react if I found out my ex was with someone else. It crosses my mind often. In some ways I think if I found out he was I would never look back or be upset about any of this because it would just tell me he never cared anyway, but I'm sure that's not true just like it's not true in your case.

I know I worry about this because I spent a lot of time questioning if he really loved me. I guess another thing that has bothered me is that I gave all of myself freely to him. I never lied to him or misled him when we were together, so I think finding out on top of all of his lies that he was able to move on so easily would hurt pretty bad. I don't know if that makes any sense.
It makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the support NYC.

My counselor told me to prepare myself for this- that AH would probably be looking for someone else to fill the hole. She and the counselor my AH and I saw work together. They both agreed that he was not going to look inward- that he would be looking for someone else to validate him asap. How exactly does one prepare for that, though??? I just don't think you can prepare for it- even with as much as I knew- that he had been attracted to this person since he started his job a year ago, and that they are together every day, have been out of town together on work trips, have been out recently and taken dd along- it still feels horrible to really know they are "together"- not just working, but actually dating. I'm trying to prepare myself to see them together, but again- I don't think I'll feel blase about it when it happens. It's just one more thing to feel. But I'll get through it. It's starting to be clearer to me that this is just something I have to go through- all of it. As much as I'd like to fast forward through it, I can't grow unless I experience it.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:50 AM
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My counselor told me to prepare myself for this- that AH would probably be looking for someone else to fill the hole. She and the counselor my AH and I saw work together. They both agreed that he was not going to look inward- that he would be looking for someone else to validate him asap. How exactly does one prepare for that, though??? I just don't think you can prepare for it- even with as much as I knew- that he had been attracted to this person since he started his job a year ago, and that they are together every day, have been out of town together on work trips, have been out recently and taken dd along- it still feels horrible to really know they are "together"- not just working, but actually dating. I'm trying to prepare myself to see them together, but again- I don't think I'll feel blase about it when it happens. It's just one more thing to feel. But I'll get through it. It's starting to be clearer to me that this is just something I have to go through- all of it. As much as I'd like to fast forward through it, I can't grow unless I experience it.
Paj-
When I read this...I felt same nausea in my stomach as when I learned similar about my stbxABF.
You hit the nail on the head. Prepare to go thru all of it. As yucky and humiliating and frustrating and hopeless as it will feel...I'M THERE TOO.
And I know several other posters have either been there, ARE there, or unfortunately will be there shortly. It's awful. It makes me wanna hurl.
My stbxABF is a work colleague...currently in rehab, but I hear someone talking that sounds like his voice and I start to sweat and spin....its indescribable (sp?) how we can lose ourselves in another who are frankly no where near emotionally available or fit for a relationship. ...and we KNOW this.
It's just going to take our hearts a while to catch up with our heads.

Sometimes the advice about focusing elsewhere and keeping busy just isn't enough to settle our souls...I know...though it is soooo appreciated.

So, take a deep breath, and we'll get through it together.

(((Paj)))


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Old 07-18-2008, 09:55 AM
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You know... As a guy that got caught up in the whirlwind, I read these postings, and it makes me feel pretty bad. (no offense intended).

I like to think of myself as a pretty good guy. I'm caring, conscientious, I work hard, I'm relatively successful. I'm 41, with "probably" 2 failed relationships. Am I one of the "junk" guys out there?

Just curious.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:12 AM
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I think Reddmaxx its only because women have been posting. I imagine the same basic truths hold for a man involved with/married to an alcoholic woman.
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