What is “Normal/Average?”
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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What is “Normal/Average?”
I guess this is partly an update and partly a question. Things at home have gotten better since ABF when on his trip. It seems that he made a pretty firm decision in his mind to not fight anymore. This is really nice!! He’s also been coming home a little more often, but I’m not sure it’s doing any good. It seems like we just avoid each other like the plague. He’s upstairs I’m down; if I go up he comes down. We don’t really talk much except about menial things and he still doesn’t include himself with family activities. (Didn’t go to fireworks with us, doesn’t go to the pool on the weekends.. etc.) So even though the fighting is over, for the time being, I still find myself feeling lonely and ambivalent about our relationship.
We still don’t really talk about the baby, haven’t picked a name or really prepared at all. And although he’s been coming home earlier sometimes, I still feel like he’s out more than “normal”, which is where my questions come in.
What is the normal/average amount of time for someone to be out or spend without their family? I know every circumstance is different, but am I really seeking too much here? I remember my Dad going out in the week, but it seemed much different it was maybe once or twice a week he had a basketball or baseball game and would go out with the team afterwards. But what I’m talking about is more like, he never makes it home before 8:30 pm. That’s on an early day.. Midnight or later on a late late day and an average time I would say is about 10:30. Plus he’s always just generically “out”, “making money”. (More like spending it, we have separate accounts so I have no idea how much)
Like I said before, we really never talk about anything of importance. (Sorry for the TMI in advance) But last night be comes home at 11:20, and starts whining how he hasn’t gotten any in 2 months. We hello, when you fall in at 11pm, let our daughter come in our bed and I’m almost 7 months along, what do you expect? Plus, now that you are home you just ignore me and try to stay out of my line of sight. He gets irritated about it and start saying he’s sorry and what do I want.. he’s just my puppet now. That’s when I get to feeling like I’m asking to much, but in my heart I know I’m no different than a single parent with a roommate. I had so much hope when the fighting stopped. But I think that was just one of the many problems we are facing.
I started to read Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay today.. We’ll see where that takes me.
We still don’t really talk about the baby, haven’t picked a name or really prepared at all. And although he’s been coming home earlier sometimes, I still feel like he’s out more than “normal”, which is where my questions come in.
What is the normal/average amount of time for someone to be out or spend without their family? I know every circumstance is different, but am I really seeking too much here? I remember my Dad going out in the week, but it seemed much different it was maybe once or twice a week he had a basketball or baseball game and would go out with the team afterwards. But what I’m talking about is more like, he never makes it home before 8:30 pm. That’s on an early day.. Midnight or later on a late late day and an average time I would say is about 10:30. Plus he’s always just generically “out”, “making money”. (More like spending it, we have separate accounts so I have no idea how much)
Like I said before, we really never talk about anything of importance. (Sorry for the TMI in advance) But last night be comes home at 11:20, and starts whining how he hasn’t gotten any in 2 months. We hello, when you fall in at 11pm, let our daughter come in our bed and I’m almost 7 months along, what do you expect? Plus, now that you are home you just ignore me and try to stay out of my line of sight. He gets irritated about it and start saying he’s sorry and what do I want.. he’s just my puppet now. That’s when I get to feeling like I’m asking to much, but in my heart I know I’m no different than a single parent with a roommate. I had so much hope when the fighting stopped. But I think that was just one of the many problems we are facing.
I started to read Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay today.. We’ll see where that takes me.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
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I remember well the feeling that I was living with a roommate rather than a husband. It was one of the many realizations that led me to leave xAH.
As for what is "normal," heck I don't know. Like you said everyone is different. For me it wouldn't necessarily be the amount of time away from you and the family or the number of days. My concern would be around the "whys" he is gone. If its to go out drinking, 1 hour. 1 night would be too much for me.
As for him not "getting any," his choices have consequences don't they?
As for what is "normal," heck I don't know. Like you said everyone is different. For me it wouldn't necessarily be the amount of time away from you and the family or the number of days. My concern would be around the "whys" he is gone. If its to go out drinking, 1 hour. 1 night would be too much for me.
As for him not "getting any," his choices have consequences don't they?
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
I don't know what's normal. MY AH and I never fought either, ever. We got to the point where you are -- somewhat peacefully co-existing in the same house. For a while I tried to break through; to tell him how I was feeling, that I wasn't happy. He would completely shut down and walk away -- then appear several minutes (sometimes hours) later to respond -- then walk away again rather than have a conversation. Then, the next day he would pretend like everything was fine. When I left he was actually shocked and thought everything was good. I never will understand it; whether it's the alcohol or just him.
But -- the "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" book. . . I read that and it is fabulous. It helped me so much to sort things out. In fact, the part that convinced me to leave is the part that talks about when one partner takes items "off the table"; as in certain topics are never to be discussed and one partner absolutely refuses to address them. I was not ever being heard; and if he did respond it was simply to tell me that I should not feel the way I felt. I could not see how we could ever work things out under that scenario. That book saved my life, alleviated a lot of my guilt, and helped move me forward. Good luck.
But -- the "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" book. . . I read that and it is fabulous. It helped me so much to sort things out. In fact, the part that convinced me to leave is the part that talks about when one partner takes items "off the table"; as in certain topics are never to be discussed and one partner absolutely refuses to address them. I was not ever being heard; and if he did respond it was simply to tell me that I should not feel the way I felt. I could not see how we could ever work things out under that scenario. That book saved my life, alleviated a lot of my guilt, and helped move me forward. Good luck.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I used to spend a lot of time wondering what normal was, and how I could have it. Now, I don't really care to be "normal." Instead, I focus on what feels peaceful and happy. What do you want in your relationship?
L
L
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Motown
Posts: 122
Our sex life has suffered tremendously as well. That’s becoming more and more of an issue. And I really hate to blame the alcohol, because sometimes it just feels like I’m blaming everything on that. My ah puts it this way: women need to feel close to be intimate, and men need to be intimate to feel close. I have to say I agree with him on that. But the problem is, who goes first?
As far as going out, it seems to me whatever you are ok with or what is meeting your needs. Ah used to go out alot, but since kids came along, he rarely goes out. I think quality rather than quantity is what’s important. He can be there physically, but not emotionally. But, then again, my ah is always home, and sometimes I *wish* he’d go out!
Maybe it’s good to have a little quiet time. As things cool off, maybe you’ll be able to communicate more?
hugs
juju
As far as going out, it seems to me whatever you are ok with or what is meeting your needs. Ah used to go out alot, but since kids came along, he rarely goes out. I think quality rather than quantity is what’s important. He can be there physically, but not emotionally. But, then again, my ah is always home, and sometimes I *wish* he’d go out!
Maybe it’s good to have a little quiet time. As things cool off, maybe you’ll be able to communicate more?
hugs
juju
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
Sounds like the frantic choas has left the relationship and now you are left with the void. It is depressing, I remember it well, him upstairs, me down just like you.
One thing I have learnt in ife is that nothing is ''normal''. Going out most nights and staying out till very late, not associating with you, ignoring his child and not forming bonds with his unborn child may be normal behaviour for him. Making chickens fight may be normal for the folks in the next town. Ensuring the washing machine is buzzing and the kitchen is wiped spotlessly clean before going to bed may be normal for my mum.
What do you want out of your relationships? What type of father do you want for your children? You determine your 'normal'.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
One thing I have learnt in ife is that nothing is ''normal''. Going out most nights and staying out till very late, not associating with you, ignoring his child and not forming bonds with his unborn child may be normal behaviour for him. Making chickens fight may be normal for the folks in the next town. Ensuring the washing machine is buzzing and the kitchen is wiped spotlessly clean before going to bed may be normal for my mum.
What do you want out of your relationships? What type of father do you want for your children? You determine your 'normal'.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Originally Posted by isitme 
It seems like we just avoid each other like the plague. He’s upstairs I’m down; if I go up he comes down. We don’t really talk much except about menial things and he still doesn’t include himself with family activities. (Didn’t go to fireworks with us, doesn’t go to the pool on the weekends.. etc.) So even though the fighting is over, for the time being, I still find myself feeling lonely and ambivalent about our relationship.
We still don’t really talk about the baby, haven’t picked a name or really prepared at all.
Plus he’s always just generically “out”, “making money”. (More like spending it, we have separate accounts so I have no idea how much)
We still don’t really talk about the baby, haven’t picked a name or really prepared at all.
Plus he’s always just generically “out”, “making money”. (More like spending it, we have separate accounts so I have no idea how much)
Regarding the amount of time one's partner spends away from home as being "normal" I have no idea. The amount of time is subjective; what is normal for one couple may be completely unacceptable for another. JMO, but I wouldn't be worried so much about how long he's out, but by the fact that the reasons he's gone are so vague. It sounds like he's telling you, "It's none of your business what I'm doing or with whom I'm doing it."
Avoidance doesn't solve problems; it merely creates more. He appears to be avoidant, secretive, and isolating. I have lived with an AH who is like this. Ultimately, it didn't work for me and the relationship ended.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
I know what I want in my next relationship and it certainly isn't this. It took me 25 years to stop accepting unacceptable behavior from my ex alcoholic boyfriend. I'm glad I finally realized that I deserved more.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
so if i said, Yes his behavior IS normal.......would that change the way YOU feel about it? probably not....the fact remains the current "arrangement" is still unfulfilling and troublesome for you, and that m'dear is ALL that really matters!!!
Thanks EVERYONE for responding.. I just love the heart felt caring from everyone here. I think it's helping. Now what I need to do is go to that What do YOU want thread and really consider that question.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
Here's my ESH. Normal for me in my marraige is that we enjoy being together and act in ways that show love. I can't imagine living any other way. We are not always together and have separate interests, but our relationship comes first before work, other friends and even our own grown children.
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Join Date: May 2004
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I saw this post yesterday and it made me very sad. I wanted to respond but, since the issues involved are so very complicated and I was very busy at work, I didn't have time.
Anyway, based on what I've seen of the way these terms are used in the world, I would have to say "normal" is a lie perpetuated by a given society or group within a society (for the purposes of this discussion, the dysfunctional family would be a perfect example) in order to enforce compliance with those behaviors and attitudes that it believes -- often implicitly, subconsciously or out of blind habit -- will support and maintain its status quo regardless of whether or not the status quo is truly conducive to the health and survival of that society or group long-term and regardless of whether or not that status quo is conducive to the short or long term health/happiness/fulfillment of any on its individual members.
"Average" on the other hand is the statistical middle on any given scale of evaluation.
Based on my experience, the only connection between "normal" and "average" is the fact that dysfunctional societies/groups tend to use the idea of "average" in order to help enforce compliance with "normal." i.e. The idea that "This is what most other people are doing, therefore it is "normal" and therefore, you should be doing it, too."
isitme, I don't really know anything about you, but I am 100% sure that you deserve much, much, much better than "normal" or "average." Please do yourself a huge favor and forget about even trying to figure out, let alone "fit" into this destructive, dysfunctional model for human behavior. Concentrate on what you -- healthy, centered you -- wants and needs and judge your life and your progress based only on that. HP doesn't make "normal;" HP makes unique and special and individual and different...honor what HP has made you; don't diminish yourself or insult HP by settling for "normal."
freya
Anyway, based on what I've seen of the way these terms are used in the world, I would have to say "normal" is a lie perpetuated by a given society or group within a society (for the purposes of this discussion, the dysfunctional family would be a perfect example) in order to enforce compliance with those behaviors and attitudes that it believes -- often implicitly, subconsciously or out of blind habit -- will support and maintain its status quo regardless of whether or not the status quo is truly conducive to the health and survival of that society or group long-term and regardless of whether or not that status quo is conducive to the short or long term health/happiness/fulfillment of any on its individual members.
"Average" on the other hand is the statistical middle on any given scale of evaluation.
Based on my experience, the only connection between "normal" and "average" is the fact that dysfunctional societies/groups tend to use the idea of "average" in order to help enforce compliance with "normal." i.e. The idea that "This is what most other people are doing, therefore it is "normal" and therefore, you should be doing it, too."
isitme, I don't really know anything about you, but I am 100% sure that you deserve much, much, much better than "normal" or "average." Please do yourself a huge favor and forget about even trying to figure out, let alone "fit" into this destructive, dysfunctional model for human behavior. Concentrate on what you -- healthy, centered you -- wants and needs and judge your life and your progress based only on that. HP doesn't make "normal;" HP makes unique and special and individual and different...honor what HP has made you; don't diminish yourself or insult HP by settling for "normal."
freya
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by freya
isitme, I don't really know anything about you, but I am 100% sure that you deserve much, much, much better than "normal" or "average." Please do yourself a huge favor and forget about even trying to figure out, let alone "fit" into this destructive, dysfunctional model for human behavior. Concentrate on what you -- healthy, centered you -- wants and needs and judge your life and your progress based only on that. HP doesn't make "normal;" HP makes unique and special and individual and different...honor what HP has made you; don't diminish yourself or insult HP by settling for "normal."
freya
freya
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
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Originally Posted by isitme
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I started to read Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay today.. We’ll see where that takes me.
I started to read Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay today.. We’ll see where that takes me.
Sending you some ((hugs)), take care of you!
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