What is an alcoholic?

Old 07-08-2008, 06:05 AM
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Question What is an alcoholic?

I know this sounds silly, but maybe I'm off base in thinking that my w is an A? She gets drunk almost everyday of the week when at home, about 4 to 5 9 ounce glasses of wine, but, when she needs to be sober for work, she can do it (for a day or two) at least. How do you really know if someone is an alcoholic?
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:11 AM
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If you really need an official diagnosis, consult a medical professional. But the simple answer is if you perceive her drinking as a problem in your lives, its a problem regardless of what label gets put on it. Certainly drinking as much as you describe is not "normal."
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:21 AM
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If you were married to me, for example, giving up booze would be like asking me to give up cheesecake. I mean, if it's there, I might take a few bites. But it's not my favorite thing in the world. I may have a piece every 3-4 months. But I certainly wouldn't care if I couldn't have it anymore.

Alcoholics spend a lot of time thinking about booze. They plan around it, they know how much they have left at home, they know when they can drink and obsess about it. They are simply obsessed with it.

Took me years to recognize when my AH is picking a fight with me, for the sole purpose of justifying his drinking!! Hellfire!! Drink! Don't drag me down for it! Now, when he starts a fight over something stupid, I ignore him. And if he keeps it up, I'll just call him on it. I tell him I know what he's doing and not to bother.

I don't really know anyone who drinks every single day, who doesn't have a problem. Not saying I know anything for certain, but I don't know anyone who eats cheesecake every single day, who I'd wonder about as well.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:31 AM
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Both responses were very good. I don't think I'm trusting myself. I had an AHa moment yesterday, which lasted until bed time. Now I'm slipping back to co-depndent behavior. I want to call my wife at work and ask if everything is ok. I know that's wrong, but its hard to change years of behavior.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Reddmax View Post
its hard to change years of behavior.
Yup, it is hard. But it can be done. Remember, baby steps! Perhaps make yourself a list of things you see you want to change in yourself and then pick a starting point and figure out how to work on one or two things at a time. You won't "cure" yourself overnight. Its hard to change your focus from your AW to yourself.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:22 AM
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It's a pretty broad question to ask "What is an alcoholic?" Red, but this segment from the Big Book of AA always sums it up pretty well for me......

But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.

Here is a fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplace the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.

This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:35 AM
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Many people have misconceptions about alcoholism. The picture in our minds of an alcoholic is of the guy/gal who lives on the street, begging for change, and drinking out of a bottle in a paper bag.

Unfortunately, alcoholics are doctors, carpenters, lawyers, teachers, stockbrokers, electricians, etc. and often perform their daily jobs quite well. But alcoholism is a progressive disease. It is a very incidious, nasty, sneaky disease. It can affect anyone. No one knows who will or will not be stricken with this disease......until it happens. It gets worse and eventually.......they can't perform normally....the disease takes over them.

There is a great book by James Milam (and a co-author I can't recall right now) called "Under the Influence". It lays out "what is alcoholism" pretty well.

If you change the 4 - 5 (9 oz) glasses of wine to 4 - 5 (1/2 lb) pieces of cake, would you question whether that was a a problem? I still have to stop myself from thinking "is my son REALLY an alcoholic?" even though he's had a dui, sat in jail, been thru inpatient treatment, been thru outpatient treatment, had his driver's license taken away, etc. When I begin to think like that, I know that I'm getting off center (again) and I need to get back to working on me.

You are asking great questions, Reddmax. You are on a new path. That's a good thing.

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Old 07-08-2008, 08:44 AM
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Reddmaxx-
I have a dear friend who is sober/recovered through AA now 7 years. Seven years ago he called my house at 6:00 in the morning, crying, wasted, at the end of his rope. He asked me, "B, how do you know when you're an alcoholic?" I said, "When you wake up your friend at 6 in the morning to ask them."

Denial is such an amazingly strong defense mehcanism that we as friends/family of alcoholics use to pretend it isn't happening and alcoholics use to allow themslves to keep drinking. Nothing gets in the way of their drinking. So if your W has to have some sober time to keep her job, and to keep people around her thinking she is NOT an alcoholic, so that she can just keep drinking, then she will manage her drinking/sober time so she can keep her job.

One of my A brothers has managed to always keep high paying respectable jobs - he's the first in the family to volunteer to help, etc. But he is a raging alcoholic, drinks every day, has had 2 DUI's, has destroyed every relationship he's been in. But I know he clings to his work so he can afford the booze, and his "johnny-on-the-spot" nature to prove to himself he's not "that bad." See, nothing can get in the way of his drinking. So it's like respektingme said, if you can't take it or leave it then it's probably an addiction.

Have you ever read "Under the Influence?" It's a great book, explains what alcohol does to a person, and to the alcoholic. It's a progressive disease, and many can hold it together for a long time, but eventually even the most high-functioning alcoholic will start to unravel. "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beattie is so very helpful as well. This forum and the "stickies" at the top of the first page are very helpful too!

Good luck- glad you are here!
Peace,
B.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:47 AM
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Hey Kindeyes!! Must've been writing at the same moment!!
So there's 2 recommends for the same book Reddmaxx!
B.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
Hey Kindeyes!! Must've been writing at the same moment!!
So there's 2 recommends for the same book Reddmaxx!
B.
haha.........I was just about to recommend the same book,too until I saw that you two have already done it! I've gotten a lot out of that book! (Ketcham is the other author,I believe.)

When AH's drinking showed up on MY radar screen and I was aware of it and "watching it and wondering",I became concerned. When I mentioned it and he in earlier years agreed,and tried to "cut back" but still drank and the issue came up again and again....my concern grew. When I mentioned it and he denied it was a problem (to him or me...what?) ....well, I knew it was growing. And when he he chose divorce over quitting (of course,not how he worded it); I should have no doubts.

haha...funny thing is;some days I still wonder....is it just me? The alcoholics are not the only ones in denial.

A problem causes problems. When we (or they) actually admit to the problem,then we know we will have to deal with it. No wonder we hope it is a passing phase.

p.s. My ex AH is still very successful in business; is more organized and neat than me (actually,the more out of control his behavior/drinking the more rigid and controlling he has become about his behaviors and surroundings;at least those for the public eye). His father (also A) is a retired MD who describes an alcoholic ("bad alcoholic") as someone who has behaved in certain ways that neither of them has...yet. Skid row;arrested for beating his wife, lost license due to DUIs,etc. That's what FIL told me,and why he says AH doesn't have a problem;kids and I are the problem. sad,but typical.

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Old 07-08-2008, 12:54 PM
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DSM-IV - DEFINITIONS OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE



DSM-1V-TR 2002 UPDATE



On the continuum of drug/alcohol use, abuse, dependence (addiction/alcoholism) the criteria for determining addiction to drugs or alcohol and/or alcoholism is clearly spelled out by the American Psychological Association in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV). The definition is key to intervention with drug/alcohol abusers as it classifies abusive drug/drinking behaviors and impacts on the type of treatment that medical insurance will cover. Reflected in the definition is the current research on brain chemistry. Important for us are the guidelines that are offered by these definitions so that we, in turn, can identify drug/alcohol (SUBSTANCE) abuse and drug/alcohol addiction (SUBSTANCE DEPENDENCE).



The term drug encompasses alcohol and, from this point forward, alcohol is included in the term “drug”. In turn, the DSM-IV uses the term “SUBSTANCE” to encompass drugs of abuse, medication or a toxin; for our purposes we shall limit the discussion to drugs of abuse. The DSM-IV-TR (text revision of 2002) continues using the same definitions as DSM-IV of 1996.



SUBSTANCE ABUSE:

One or more of the following:



* FAILURE TO FULFILL MAJOR OBLIGATIONS
* USE WHEN PHYSICALLY HAZARDOUS
* RECURRENT LEGAL PROBLEMS
* RECURRENT SOCIAL OR INTERPERSONAL PROBLEMS



With SUBSTANCE ABUSE the user has a choice: he/she uses in spite of illegal, unsafe consequences, or inappropriateness of the drinking/drugging experience.



SUBSTANCE DEPENDENCE (ADDICTION/ALCOHOLISM)

Three or more of the following:



* TOLERANCE
* WITHDRAWAL
* LARGE AMOUNTS OVER A LONG PERIOD
* UNSUCCESSFUL EFFORTS TO CUT DOWN
* TIME SPENT IN OBTAINING THE SUBSTANCE REPLACES

SOCIAL, OCCUPATIONAL OR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES

* CONTINUED USE DESPITE ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES



The terms “addiction” “dependence” and “alcoholism” are interchangeable. They are characterized by impaired control over drug use - in other words, the question to the user is: “Did you continue to behave in a manner that has previously caused problems for you?”



The relationship with the drug becomes primary - it is like a consuming love affair - it becomes the most important relationship for the individual and all decisions made are based on the maintenance of this relationship.



This definition has psychological and physiological characteristics. Psychological because the individual has an obsessive preoccupation with the drug and physiological because of the neuro-chemical action taking place in the brain.



The definition differs from the traditional definition of dependence/addiction as it is now not necessary to have the three criteria of (1) tolerance, (2) withdrawal (physical dependence) and (3) compulsion (psychological dependence). These three criteria are sufficient but not necessary for “dependence”. With this new definition “cocaine” is classified as addictive even though it has no significant physical withdrawal. The DSM-IV-TR defines this by specifying the following:



With Physiological Dependence –evidence of tolerance or withdrawal

(i.e. item #1 or #2 is present)



Without Physiological Dependence – no evidence of tolerance or withdrawal

(i.e. neither item #1 nor item #2 is present) (DSM-IV-TR p. 198.)


DSM-IV - DEFINITIONS OF ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:43 AM
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I appreciate the the responses. Steve, the DSM-IV manual is great. So if her alcohol consumption causes relationship issues, and failure to fufill social obligations, as well as physical danger, she's an alcoholic.

But she denies, denies, denies, sometimes violently...
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Reddmax View Post
But she denies, denies, denies, sometimes violently...
That's what alcoholics do when they are in denial. Its what us codies do when we are in denial. It takes courage to face that denial and start changing ourselves.
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