Two issues: Trust and negativity

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Old 04-22-2008, 11:00 AM
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Two issues: Trust and negativity

I have been reading all the information here and finding the site very helpful. I have two other big issues with my AH besides his drinking.

Trust:
Based on my AH’s experiences when he was young he trusts very few people for advice or counseling. He will not see a counselor or clergyman because of this trust issue. He says things like “why should I listen to them?” and “they just tell you what to do.” I am currently (and have been in the past) in counseling and have tried to explain to him how it works, but he says “counseling is fine for you but it’s not for me.” I have given up trying to talk him into counseling even though I believe it would help him get past some of his childhood issues that he is still dwelling on 35+ years later. I am starting to think he doesn’t want to resolve these issues because he is getting something out of being the victim…maybe using it as an excuse to continue drinking??

Negativity:
My AH is negative about almost everything in life even when sober. He has always had a negative attitude but it seems to be getting worse the older he gets. If anyone has advice on how they deal with a negative spouse, I would love to hear it.

Both of these issues came to a head last Friday and I have been thinking about them a lot since. I have seriously started thinking about leaving my marriage. I find myself wondering what it would be like to come home each day and not have to worry about what kind of mood my AH will be in. I only look forward to weekends when he or I have an activity that will keep us apart for hours at a time.

I have started reading a book called “Getting them Sober”. I find myself angry while reading it, asking myself why should I have to do all the work while he does nothing and continues to drink. It really pisses me off! I am tired of doing all the work. Does anyone else feel like this?
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:07 AM
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My AH also had issues from his childhood and depression on top of/in addition to alcoholism. He refused all suggestions/requests he consider therapy. His choice. I coul dno more make him engage in therapy than I could make him stop drinking.

Although my AH wasn't a negative person, he sure did enjoy taking on the victim role, especially after being fired and now after still being unemployed almost 3 yrs later.

My choice was to leave him and let him wallow in his victimhood and alcoholism. He will not deal in reality. Soon it will be catching up with him. Maybe that will be his bottom.

Leaving him was the absolute best thing I could do for myself. My life is ever so much better without all the drama and pain.
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:17 AM
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((Bookworm88))

I have a suggestion for you - How about looking at the things you are learning, reading, and trying to understand that these are to help YOU?

Try forgeting about helping him. Look at the situation that you are doing something for yourself. How long has it been since you have done something good and healthy truly just for you? If you are anything like me, when I started this program, it had been a long, long time.

I look at my recovery journey as something I am doing for me. Not something I am doing to help the alcoholic/addicts in my life. I have been affected by other people's drinking and drug use. My thinking, reasoning and reactions have become distorted. I need to try to find a way to repair the damage that has been done.

The things I am doing are for my own benefit. Yes, my family will benefit also - but mainly and most importantly I will benefit.

I will have serenity and joy in my daily life regardless of the actions of the people surrounding me. Doesn't mean that I won't have pain, sadness, grief and despair - but I will have the tools and support to handle it in a healthier way.

This is why I have choosen to seek recovery, to attend meetings, to reach out for help, read books - because I am worth it - I deserve it.

And my friend, so do you.

Wishing you Serenity & Joy,
Rita
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:18 AM
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Hi Bookworm88, I can relate to how you are feeling.

My ah has trust issues, as well as a very negative attitude. His typical reaction to almost anything, is a "they are out to get me" attitude, "they don't care about me" attitude.

I have been in counseling on and off for most of my adult life, and have been consistently seeing a therapist for the last 4 months. My ah has never sought counseling (except for once by phone). However, we had a talk last week, and he has agreed that he will see a therapist on his own, and we will see a therapist together. I believe it when it happens. But I have informed him that this is the only way I can stay in this marriage.

Why bother to communicate if it's not going to be effective? My ah and I just can't understand one another....I'm hoping a therapist will help with that.

Extremely frustrating....considering I am a positive person, filled with love and joy! I try to see the good in everyone!

So what do we do? Take care of ourselves!

We can't make them become "enlightened", they have to do that on their own.

We can't make them stop drinking, they have to do that on their own.

I deal with these "behaviors" by being my usual positive self....and when he spits out negativity, I calmly and respectfully put my positive spin on it.

It's that universal "Law of Attraction"!

If you wake up saying to yourself "I'm so tired...I have so much work to do today....how will I get it done....this sucks", then you are guaranteed to have an unpleasant day.

If you wake up saying to yourself "Oh, what a great day this will be. The sun is shining....I can hear the birds....I can't wait for my hot shower...life is beautiful", then you are guaranteed to have a pleasant day.

We all have a past. And we should honor our past. However, it is not healthy to live in the past, or dwell on it (in a negative manner). All we have is Now, this exact moment. What's happening right now? How are we right now? Forget about yesterday, last night, or what will happen tomorrow.

I am choosing to live in the Now, and not dwell on the past, or anticipate my future.

As far as being upset b/c you feel you are doing all the work...this is how I look at it for me.....I have always been one for spiritual/personal growth and development. For me, it's important to work on myself. I am a constant "work in progress" (which, by the way, my ah says he hates it when I say this).

Remember, we can only control what we do and say.

Take care of yourself, I hope this helped some.


Shivaya
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:36 PM
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Wellcome, Bookworm88,
reading your story puts me in mind of Archie Bunker.
Edith Used to give Archie a blank stare, when he would acked
goofy, maybe Archie is his Hero. Give him the Archie treatment.
tell him what you have shared here.
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:01 PM
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Thanks to you all for the feedback.

Japic05-
You are right I do need to think of myself. Over the last 2 months I have started to do things for myself again. One thing I have done is volunteered to help with some events for a club I belong to. These will take me away from the AH for hours and I can make some new friends. One event was on Sunday. I was gone from 9 am to 7 pm and I didn’t want to come home, I was having such a good time! I plan to get more involved in this club because I am interested in it and enjoy it.

I understand that I need to work on me and not worry about him. My problem is that I still have to live in the same house with him, deal with his moods, and how he is affecting our 15 year old son. I try to stay away from him as much as I can but it isn’t easy because he bugs me if I stay in the bedroom while he is in the living room. He wants me to watch TV with him or at least sit and read in the same room with him while he watches TV. I take a long bath almost every night so I can have some “me” time without him bugging me.

I have not gone to an Alanon meeting yet. I have been reluctant to go because the only ones I can attend are in the evening when my AH is home. He will ask where I am going and I am not comfortable telling him. I know I should not care what he thinks/says about it but I am not yet ready to deal with his reaction.

Shivaya, some of the things you said make me think you may have read “A New Earth”.

I finished that book last week and felt some hope for the first time in years. I was so enthusiastic about it that my AH decided he wanted to read it too. I was even more hopeful that he would get some good from the book and maybe wake up to the negativity in his life. Well, he got about 50 pages in and told me that he thought the book was a bunch of psycho babble and that he doesn’t believe anything the author has to say. This all happened last Friday. I tried to explain why I found value in the book and how I thought it might help him especially in dealing with his father. I felt like an idiot because I could not explain it the way I wanted to. Things got heated and I ended up in tears. I decided I needed to remove myself from the situation and calm down. So I put my coat on and went for a walk around the block. I didn’t tell him what I was doing because I didn’t even want to look at him right then. When I got back he said I scared him because he didn’t know where I was. I did not let him ruin my evening. I watched a movie and went to bed, leaving him alone to drink his beer.

The next day we talked about my going for a walk. He said it scared him because he is afraid of driving me out the door for good. I did not say anything one way or the other at the time but now I wish I had. I don’t think it would have done any good though because I have told him before that his drinking is driving a wedge between us and that I don’t think I can stand to be married 50 years with the way things are. Sometimes I feel like I am chasing my tail!

Re: Edith Bunker's blank stare - In the last 3 days I have done my version of this when he is negative. I don't agree or disagree, I just say nothing. I'm hoping eventually he will catch on and shut up.
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:06 PM
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One more thing...
My AH would freak if he read all of this. Once I decide if I am staying or leaving I just may let him read all of it.
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Bookworm88 View Post
Shivaya, some of the things you said make me think you may have read “A New Earth”.
No...I have not read it (yet)...I am just wise! :rof All joking aside, I actually read an interview with Eckhart Tolle in O Magazine in the May issue. I can't wait to read it!!!

So glad to hear that you have read it and that it has had a positive effect on you. Sorry your ah did not get the same out of it.

Take care,

Shivaya
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:32 PM
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Had both the same issues 1) grumpy about something frequently, and 2) says nothing will help, and here is what I did (to take care of myself): When I came home and saw he was in one of those moods I left the house, or got busy with something and gave him NO attention. Guess what? That left him to be pissy all by himself, and that did not accomplish anything for him. After a few times of my refusing to be a part of it I think he understood he wasn't going to get the same bahaviour out of me. He decided to go to counseling. As long as you are there to catch the crap he has no reason to seek help. Good luck!!
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jehnifer View Post
As long as you are there to catch the crap he has no reason to seek help.
That sometimes happens. I wish it always did. In my case, I've been gone 9 months and nothing has changed for AH. He's still drunk daily, still unemployed and now looking at being homeless because the house may go to foreclosure. I pray he seeks help but so far he has not. My experience tells me, nothing I do or do not do makes the slightest difference to AH.
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:22 PM
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I have started reading a book called “Getting them Sober”. I find myself angry while reading it, asking myself why should I have to do all the work while he does nothing and continues to drink. It really pisses me off! I am tired of doing all the work. Does anyone else feel like this?[/QUOTE]

Another book that I've found helpful in better understanding some of the "whys" is "Under the Influence". I'm about 3/4 through it now. I 'm finding myself reading it and saying "I've/we’ve been there" allot. It explains, better than anywhere else I've found, the physical aspects of the disease, as well as the mental and personality changes that occur.
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:37 PM
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Hey Bookworm...look how far you have come already?....take one day at a time, we have to learn new tools to react in a different manner and it is truly amazing how changing a simple behaviour in ourselves can have such a significant effect in another...

There are lots of wonderful wise people in this forum...so you just keep hanging out here., and you will learn oh so much!

I don't post very often...infact no one here as yet knows my story...but I read the posts often and I have come along long way in the last two years from information I got right here at SR.

I find the support here tremendous! so thank you to everyone here..... my life is so beautiful now and I am happy :0)
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:56 PM
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I think that trust and negativity issues come as a package deal with the ism. I have experienced everything you discussed in your posts and after 16 years of marriage am divorcing my AH. I am glad detaching is working for you and you are able to have time to decide, it scares the A and sometimes they react in a negative fashion (in my case his reaction forced me to make a decision).
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:39 AM
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Welcome!

You can't change him, his moods, denial and his drinking, but you can improve and change the situation for yourself and your son.

I recommend going to an Alanon meeting. Perhaps you don't need to tell him that, just that you go "to do something for yourself". No need to lie but you can do something for yourself - I guess he does not ask you if he can drink - You may perhaps want to enquire about Alateen as well for your son?

And considering that you like reading, "Codependant no More" and other books from Melody Beatie, may be a good inspiration for YOURSELF but perhaps you know them already.

Take care of yourself and your son
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Old 04-24-2008, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bookworm88 View Post
I was gone from 9 am to 7 pm and I didn’t want to come home, I was having such a good time!
Bookworm,

I've felt like that so many times over the past year. The first time was coming back from a girl's backpacking weekend when I realized how miserable I was thinking about what I was heading back to. That was my wake-up call that there was something really wrong with my relationship to AH. We've been to a therapist together once. He told the therapist everything was fine with us, well except the problems that I had to work on (he actually said that it was all my fault). Since then I've started going to AlAnon and seeing a counselor on my own.

Originally Posted by Bookworm88 View Post
I try to stay away from him as much as I can but it isn’t easy because he bugs me if I stay in the bedroom while he is in the living room. He wants me to watch TV with him or at least sit and read in the same room with him while he watches TV. I take a long bath almost every night so I can have some “me” time without him bugging me.
Yep me too. When I get home from work and he's been drinking (he's currently unemployed) I try to find anything that will keep me away from him, taking the dog for a walk, going for a run, cleaning the house, sending him to the garage (his man-cave). Personally I think it sucks. It really is not what I think a marriage should be.

Originally Posted by Bookworm88 View Post
I have not gone to an Alanon meeting yet. I have been reluctant to go because the only ones I can attend are in the evening when my AH is home. He will ask where I am going and I am not comfortable telling him. I know I should not care what he thinks/says about it but I am not yet ready to deal with his reaction.
I also didn't want to tell him about those things, but once I did I felt better. Not that he didn't have a bad reaction to it, but at least I was no longer hiding it. The AlAnon meetings have helped a bunch since I get face to face time with people who've been there, done that.

I also really love coming here. Bookworm, I'd swear we are married to twin brothers from what you've described. Know that you're not alone in this. And yes, sometimes I get really angry about the situation I'm in. But then I try to come back into the moment and look around me. I have chosen to be in this situation for now. Tomorrow is a different day and maybe I'll choose not to be in this situation. As weird as it sounds, I maybe needed to choose to be in this situation to force myself to do the growing that has been taking place over the last year. If I hadn't married AH, I may not have experienced the growth that I've found to be so helpful.
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Old 04-24-2008, 08:47 AM
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By reading posts here I have noticed how those of us living with alcoholics have such similar stories. Until I found this site I never realized that. It has been a big help to me to see that I am not alone.

Thanks for the book recommendations. I have read "Codependent No More" - my counselor had told me about it. I need to read more about codependency because I still don't feel I understand it. I keep wanting to change him and haven't been able to get past that yet. In my head I want to let that go but in my heart I'm not there yet.
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:24 AM
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Anvilhead, what you said makes so much sense. Thank you.

It would be much easier for me to split from my AH if he did find fault with me. In my mind it would justify leaving him. He tells me all the time what a good person I am and how my few faults are so minor compared to his. This makes me uncomfortable because I do not think I am better than him. My personal faults/mistakes are just different than his. He tells me all the time how he wouldn't know what to do if I left him, that he would probably get drunk every day if he didn't have me. I love how he lays this guilt on me...that was said with sarcasm.
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bookworm88 View Post
I have been reading all the information here and finding the site very helpful. I have two other big issues with my AH besides his drinking.

Trust:
Based on my AH’s experiences when he was young he trusts very few people for advice or counseling. He will not see a counselor or clergyman because of this trust issue. He says things like “why should I listen to them?” and “they just tell you what to do.” I am currently (and have been in the past) in counseling and have tried to explain to him how it works, but he says “counseling is fine for you but it’s not for me.” I have given up trying to talk him into counseling even though I believe it would help him get past some of his childhood issues that he is still dwelling on 35+ years later. I am starting to think he doesn’t want to resolve these issues because he is getting something out of being the victim…maybe using it as an excuse to continue drinking??

Negativity:
My AH is negative about almost everything in life even when sober. He has always had a negative attitude but it seems to be getting worse the older he gets. If anyone has advice on how they deal with a negative spouse, I would love to hear it.

Both of these issues came to a head last Friday and I have been thinking about them a lot since. I have seriously started thinking about leaving my marriage. I find myself wondering what it would be like to come home each day and not have to worry about what kind of mood my AH will be in. I only look forward to weekends when he or I have an activity that will keep us apart for hours at a time.

I have started reading a book called “Getting them Sober”. I find myself angry while reading it, asking myself why should I have to do all the work while he does nothing and continues to drink. It really pisses me off! I am tired of doing all the work. Does anyone else feel like this?

Everything you said i can see in my husband! He says the same thing about doctors, after he was going to AA he was like, that doesnt help me i dont think i really need this. Im like yea you do.
I think that my husband needs to be the one working on his own damn issues instead of relying on me to do EVERYTHING for him, it feels like i have 3 kids instead of 2!!! Ive been thinking about leaving my husband too, but im worried about the kids, cause i dont want him alone with my kids, so thats stopping me from getting one. Im just tired of this drama!
I feel the same way as you.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:09 PM
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I am in a very similar situation and am currently living in chaos. I am learning slowly to take care of me. I am in Al-Anon (almost 10 months) but I have so much more to learn. I'm just figuring out detachment. I have lost some of my old behaviors that were making the situation worse. I am proud of myself for that. I also think that my life would be more peaceful and worth going on my own with my two small children and to get beyond the fear. I will do what I have to when I'm ready. I am not ready yet. Just for today, I can do anything for 12 hours. One day at a time.

J
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Old 04-24-2008, 07:27 PM
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Your post described my AH exactly. Gosh...do we really all live with the same person? It's truly amazing me to hear all these stories that at the root ALL sound exactly the same.

I actually asked AH to move out and I will be filing for separation in the next few weeks. I never imagined my life would come to this point but I know I need to start moving forward. I can pray that he'll get better, but if he doesn't then I'll already be on the road to getting ME better, kwim?
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