Advice Wanted Please
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
Advice Wanted Please
I'd really appreciate any advice anyone can give me on the following situation. I am trying to follow my heart, but my heart feels torn in two different directions. Then I try and follow my head, and I can think of compelling logical reasons for both choices too. My counselor is VERY good at keeping the focus on me and does not want me to discuss this with her. Here's the situation in a nutshell--my AH has been on-and-off the wagon for two and a half years, but has NEVER worked a recovery program. He's attended AA a couple of times here and there, and been on Anti-D's on and off, but that's the extent of his "treatment" thus far. He's also lost every job he's got in this time period--usually by quitting, and never sticking with any job longer than three months. It's been a cycle. Quit drinking, stay sober, look for a job, get a job, hate the job, say job drove him to drinking, start drinking heavily, quit job, etc.etc.etc. I finally got sick of this merry-go-round last year and moved out into my folks house and talked of divorce. He got sober about three weeks later, and promised me he would do anything I asked if I would just move back, that he couldn't make it without me. I said he had to stay sober, get into AA, and get and keep a job. He promised he would. Guess what? Stayed sober for four months, worked for four months,started drinking, quit the job. Got sober, got another job, started drinking, quit the job. The last time this happened (in the last week or so) I finally moved out again after having told him time and time again that I wanted a divorce and would be seeking one soon. He spent three days on the couch telling me he was going to commit suicide or to just let him die. Two days ago, he sobered up, and feels like **** for whats happened, but feels even worse because he can tell that I truly want to file for divorce this time. On Sunday, he told me he didn't want to die, didn't want to lose me and our daughter, understood why I needed to get the divorce, and that with my help as a friend he was going to do everything he could to stay sober--work AA, keep a job, live on his own, and that by doing that he wanted to be able to maintain a relationship with our daughter, and maybe eventually with me. I said, "Great!" Now, yesterday--he changed his tune and is now saying that he fully intends to do everything he never did before--go to AA, go to church, work the program, get a job, but that he can't do it without me and needs me to give him a "stay of execution" on the divorce--that maybe we could be legally separated, and that would give me a "hammer to hold over his head" that I could drop at a moment's notice if he didn't live up to his promises, but that he really wanted to get sober for good this time but needed my help. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!! I love him and hate to withdraw all "hope" from him if this is truly a wake-up call and crossroads for him (he says he never believed in the past I was serious about wanting to divorce him but that he believes me now) but I can't see myself just moving back in and hoping everything turns out OK when I've done that before and it didn't work. I keep telling him if he loved me as much as he says, he would see why I wanted the divorce, and that if he on his own is able to accomplish what he says, then I'm not going to say, "Never Again" because I would want him back if he was sober, working a program, and working. I feel so stuck--sometimes I just feel I'm a fool if I don't take this opportunity to get out, other times I feel like since he really has no one else (which he doesn't) that I'm being too cruel because he says he wants to change but needs support, so who am I to withdraw that support if there is a possibility he can get sober this time? I'm scared, sad and confused, and any advice would be desperately appreciated.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Welcome. I hope you stick around and keep posting.
If I were you, I would continue to live apart. Let him show he is serious about recovery over the next year or so. Actions speak louder than words. You can live separately as long as you want to without filing for divorce if that meets your needs.
If I were you, I would continue to live apart. Let him show he is serious about recovery over the next year or so. Actions speak louder than words. You can live separately as long as you want to without filing for divorce if that meets your needs.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Johannesburg South Africa
Posts: 61
Welcome,
I see you have been a member for some while but this is your first post, this is perhaps not what you WANT to hear .....
I found this message very powerful and thank Ann for re-posting this.
It is HIS recovery, HIS choice and it has nothing do do with YOU. He does not need YOU to get to recover, only himself. You have already given so much, tried so hard, enabled so much...It did NOT work, why should it now?
HIS Actions speak more than words....
I see you have been a member for some while but this is your first post, this is perhaps not what you WANT to hear .....
What Addicts Do
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What Addicts Do
This post has been reposted so many times that I thought I would sticky it here at the top. Jon posted this some time ago, in response to the many questions of "why" that were asked by those who love an addict. I thank Jon for sharing this so honestly and hope it will help others understand what addicts do.
What Addicts Do
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Addicts Do
This post has been reposted so many times that I thought I would sticky it here at the top. Jon posted this some time ago, in response to the many questions of "why" that were asked by those who love an addict. I thank Jon for sharing this so honestly and hope it will help others understand what addicts do.
What Addicts Do
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
It is HIS recovery, HIS choice and it has nothing do do with YOU. He does not need YOU to get to recover, only himself. You have already given so much, tried so hard, enabled so much...It did NOT work, why should it now?
HIS Actions speak more than words....
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
I would not move back in with him. Give him a chance to prove himself if he really wants to get better.
I broke up with my alcoholic ex way more than once, each time going back because he said he was serious about getting sober. The last time, in November, he was VERY serious about getting sober and even came clean about the problem with his family (up until then I was the only person who knew).
January comes - I think he's working a program and though he should establish himself doing that before trying to get back together. He didn't sound like someone in reocovery, so I asked if he had been drinking. He fessed up. I stop talking to him. Now he sends text messages. He is still drinking.
If you are already out, stay out until he "shows" you he is serious. Words are meaningless without action. It took a long time for me to get that lesson.
I know it's hard and that you love him, but think about what that will do to you to have to leave again and start this process from the begining.
I broke up with my alcoholic ex way more than once, each time going back because he said he was serious about getting sober. The last time, in November, he was VERY serious about getting sober and even came clean about the problem with his family (up until then I was the only person who knew).
January comes - I think he's working a program and though he should establish himself doing that before trying to get back together. He didn't sound like someone in reocovery, so I asked if he had been drinking. He fessed up. I stop talking to him. Now he sends text messages. He is still drinking.
If you are already out, stay out until he "shows" you he is serious. Words are meaningless without action. It took a long time for me to get that lesson.
I know it's hard and that you love him, but think about what that will do to you to have to leave again and start this process from the begining.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
I agree that actions speak louder than words. I also think it would take a good long while for it to mean anything- especially considering his record of sobering up, working, quitting, drinking blahblahblah. . . What do you have to give you hope? His words? The only hope you have of being happy is within you. Take care of you and your dd. Let him take care of himself. Do you need him to take care of you? No- you're an adult. Does he need you to take care of him? No- he's an adult- and as such should get off his duff and do for himself. If he can't do that- it's not up to you to do it for him.
Welcome- I hope you'll keep posting and reading. It's helped me through a very similar situation. ((()))
Welcome- I hope you'll keep posting and reading. It's helped me through a very similar situation. ((()))
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Welcome to SR. You have found a great place with lots of Experience, Strength and Hope (ES&H)
Stick around, read the sticky's at the top of this forum and ask all the questions you have. Some we will be able to answer, some we may not be able to.
Oh boy is that MANIPULATION, sheesh, they never give up.
Gees Poncho said it:
Stick to your guns. If divorce is what you need right now for you and your child, than go for it.
No where is it written that you cannot marry again, somewhere down the line, when his actions show he is working a program of recovery.
J M H O
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care!
Love and hugs,
Stick around, read the sticky's at the top of this forum and ask all the questions you have. Some we will be able to answer, some we may not be able to.
I said, "Great!" Now, yesterday--he changed his tune and is now saying that he fully intends to do everything he never did before--go to AA, go to church, work the program, get a job, but that he can't do it without me and needs me to give him a "stay of execution" on the divorce--that maybe we could be legally separated, and that would give me a "hammer to hold over his head" that I could drop at a moment's notice if he didn't live up to his promises, but that he really wanted to get sober for good this time but needed my help.
Gees Poncho said it:
Actions speek louder than words.
stay away until his actions match his words
stay away until his actions match his words
No where is it written that you cannot marry again, somewhere down the line, when his actions show he is working a program of recovery.
J M H O
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care!
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
No where is it written that you cannot marry again, somewhere down the line, when his actions show he is working a program of recovery.
I always think that staying away has to mean forever and it overwhelms me. The above gives me peace in some way. Thanks Laurie!
I always think that staying away has to mean forever and it overwhelms me. The above gives me peace in some way. Thanks Laurie!
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
Couple things:
1. You are not responsible for his recovery. Him saying he can't do it without you is just manipulative BS.
2. If he does not recover/go to AA, whatever, it's not your fault, no matter what you do (short of holding him down and forcing booze down his throat).
You can be supportive without being married. Marriage has nothing to do with it.
1. You are not responsible for his recovery. Him saying he can't do it without you is just manipulative BS.
2. If he does not recover/go to AA, whatever, it's not your fault, no matter what you do (short of holding him down and forcing booze down his throat).
You can be supportive without being married. Marriage has nothing to do with it.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Back South where I belong!
Posts: 210
So, Mambo -
He is making you responsible for his recovery?
That's not how it works. He has to do it for himself. My situation is/was similar and it did not end well. He hurt people by drinking and driving and is looking at possible jailtime and God only knows what else.
I went back into the relationship a million times and it always ended up the same way, only each time hurt more than the previous time.
You are not cruel. Please take care of yourself and your DD.
He is making you responsible for his recovery?
That's not how it works. He has to do it for himself. My situation is/was similar and it did not end well. He hurt people by drinking and driving and is looking at possible jailtime and God only knows what else.
I went back into the relationship a million times and it always ended up the same way, only each time hurt more than the previous time.
You are not cruel. Please take care of yourself and your DD.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
There are several things I've learned on SR:
1) Active acoholics will say ANYTHING to convince their co-dependent partners to stay in the relationship.
2) They will break their promises again and again.
3) They have no intention of changing.
4) They don't really believe their codependent partners will divorce them.
5) They will use any manipulation tactic they feel necessary to convince their partners to stay: lie, bargain, intimidate, cry, treaten suicide, say they can't survive without you.
6) Thinking with my heart and not my head kept me stuck in a miserable relationship.
7) I used to think I would take my alcoholic boyfriend back when he sought recovery and became sober, but then I sought recovery for myself and decided that there was no way in hell I'd take him back--drunk or sober--because he had never been a partner to me; he had lied to, manipulated, and deceived me repeatedly; and I deserved to be cherished and treated well.
1) Active acoholics will say ANYTHING to convince their co-dependent partners to stay in the relationship.
2) They will break their promises again and again.
3) They have no intention of changing.
4) They don't really believe their codependent partners will divorce them.
5) They will use any manipulation tactic they feel necessary to convince their partners to stay: lie, bargain, intimidate, cry, treaten suicide, say they can't survive without you.
6) Thinking with my heart and not my head kept me stuck in a miserable relationship.
7) I used to think I would take my alcoholic boyfriend back when he sought recovery and became sober, but then I sought recovery for myself and decided that there was no way in hell I'd take him back--drunk or sober--because he had never been a partner to me; he had lied to, manipulated, and deceived me repeatedly; and I deserved to be cherished and treated well.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 261
If I were you, I would continue to live apart. Let him show he is serious about recovery over the next year or so. Actions speak louder than words. You can live separately as long as you want to without filing for divorce if that meets your needs.
I wouldn't get a divorce right away....seperation would prob be the best and make him prove himself to you. THere is no other way. IF you continue to live with him it will just drive you insane. Good Luck...hopefully he follows a good path and you guys can be together.
Remember yelling and screaming(not saying you do this but I did) will not get you anywhere and will not improve the situation....only makes it worse. I know that it is hard to hold your tounge when you are this frustrated with him but you have to just concentrate on you and your daughter...this will be the best thing that you can do for everyone in the situation.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 261
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THEN WORDS....I just thought of something else. If the alchoholic gets very angry when you say these words to them it probably means that they are not very serious about getting help. I know that my xabf hates(I mean really hates)when i used and still use these words with him. Why because he is not ready to take action and live up to his words.
play the tape all the way thru
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 480
Originally Posted by FormerDoormat 
There are several things I've learned on SR:
1) Active acoholics will say ANYTHING to convince their co-dependent partners to stay in the relationship.
2) They will break their promises again and again.
3) They have no intention of changing.
4) They don't really believe their codependent partners will divorce them.
5) They will use any manipulation tactic they feel necessary to convince their partners to stay: lie, bargain, intimidate, cry, treaten suicide, say they can't survive without you.
6) Thinking with my heart and not my head kept me stuck in a miserable relationship.
7) I used to think I would take my alcoholic boyfriend back when he sought recovery and became sober, but then I sought recovery for myself and decided that there was no way in hell I'd take him back--drunk or sober--because he had never been a partner to me; he had lied to, manipulated, and deceived me repeatedly; and I deserved to be cherished and treated well.
1) Active acoholics will say ANYTHING to convince their co-dependent partners to stay in the relationship.
2) They will break their promises again and again.
3) They have no intention of changing.
4) They don't really believe their codependent partners will divorce them.
5) They will use any manipulation tactic they feel necessary to convince their partners to stay: lie, bargain, intimidate, cry, treaten suicide, say they can't survive without you.
6) Thinking with my heart and not my head kept me stuck in a miserable relationship.
7) I used to think I would take my alcoholic boyfriend back when he sought recovery and became sober, but then I sought recovery for myself and decided that there was no way in hell I'd take him back--drunk or sober--because he had never been a partner to me; he had lied to, manipulated, and deceived me repeatedly; and I deserved to be cherished and treated well.
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