witsendtrying2

I registered back in 2006 and much has happened since. To update my story. My daughter is an alcoholic and has tried to become sober but alas she is only getting worse.

She now has 4 DUI charges against her and finally went to jail for this. Unfortunately, and she admits this, that 28 days in jail was not enough. For the first week of release she was determined to get her life back on track, but a month out and she is worse than she ever was.

She can no longer work as she has no transport. Lost her licence for 2 years. But now she is drunk every 2nd or 3rd day.

She hates what she is doing, but has no idea how to stop or why she can't stop. The people she hangs around with are all alcoholics. Great way to try and stop. She was determined to stop hanging around with these people, but slowly started to again.

Prior to her going to jail, she told us that she had been sexually abused by a man, a neighbour, and that she had never healed from this. I was in total shock. I had no idea.

She agreed on councilling for sexual abuse and alcoholism and the many related issues attached to sexual abuse, but has now wiped her hands of all councillors. One of them hit on her and she freaked out. She was categorised as a binge drinker as apposed to an alcoholic, but believe me she is an alcoholic.

She has also come out of two very physically and emotional relationships with 2 men. One went to jail for his behaviour and assaults on her and the other one is just phycotic (sp?) and she became so scared of him. Unfortunately her bad behaviour esculated and she alone, suffered the consequences. That needed to happen, really, but she didn't learnt the necessary life lessons.

I am convinced she has obsessive compulsive disorder and also PSTD. She attempted suicide again about 6 months ago and even though this scared her, I am afraid she is going down this track again.

What I just can't understand, is some mornings she will get up and is so determined to stop what she is doing, but by the afternoon is doing it all over again. She cannot explain this for herself, nor can I understand this behaviour.

We are now considering family intervention as the last resort. She cannot help herself.

My hubby thinks she is now a non-functioning alcoholic. I think I would have to agree. Prior, she at least went an entire week without hitting the bottle. She thinks that by drinking light beer is the answer. No one can get through to her that it is that first mouth full that will send her down this track, regardless it light or heavy.

I am very close to detaching from her and have told her that I can no longer help her or bear to witness her self destruction. She doesn't want to self destruct, but has no idea as to how to stop. Everyone she has spoken to professionally has given the same advice, but there is something missing from within her, to do so.

What do you do when someone, your daughter is so out of control.

She has been to ATODS, Mental health, AA's and jail. - Nothing is working. Her power to stop has left her. It seems hopeless right now and we have asked her to leave our home. To go and do to herself as she sees fits. I believe we have to prepare for her death or a long stint in jail. She is on a probation order for 15 months and that is not even enough for her to stop her behaviour.

She is a lost soul and my heart aches for her, but time for me to detach and withdraw from her. I do believe this is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I love her so much, but I do not like her right now. When she is sober she is the most gorgeous kid, but when she is drunk she is disgusting to me. I am ashamed of her. I am disappointed in myself for not knowing she was sexually abused and how sexual abuse distorted her mind as a child. I know now that alcohol and drug abuse is quite often the result.

If only, if only ..............

FormerDoormat

Detach, pray, attend Alanon, seek counseling, and let her find her own path to recovery. The only way out of the insanity is to walk away from it. I realize that's next to impossible when the alcoholic is your child, but it can be done.

The alcoholic in my life was my ex boyfriend. A number of people with alcoholic children regularly participate on this forum. One of them will be by shortly to offer their insight, which I'm sure will be more helpful to you than mine.

In the meantime, please keep posting. I found that the more frequently that I participated on this forum, the healthier I got. I needed daily support. You probably do, too.

Welcome back.

LucyA

Please try to do this if you can, it's good advice.
I've watched my mum and dad try to 'help' my brother and worry themselves sick over him recently, I was so worried for their health and sanity.
I really wish they would have even come to this forum, but they 'don't talk about stuff like that'

They changed as people and they werent true to themselves, it was hard to watch. They're doing much better now though.

It really is all about you, you need to look after you, and let your daughter look after herself. I realise how hard it must be when it's one of your children, but as FormerDoormat says, it can be done.

really_fed_up

I'm so sorry for your pain...

I was molested as a child and have an anxiety disorder; I can say from the perspective of someone having been through these two things that it is hell trying to come to terms with the abuse, so maybe she's just not there yet in terms of talking about what happened to her.

But what complicates her issues is her alcoholism. And ultimately she is the only one who can do anything about it...a very sad but true fact. Detach, post, rant, go to Al Anon, and know that we are all here for you and you aren't alone.

Hugs

mallowcup

As adults we can not understand. As children we know that we are worth less than a cocktail. As a pediatric nurse, I am thankful that by Gods Grace, your children are safe.
Restore the light to their eyes and let your wife find a pillow for herself.
I have seen the results of children left alone and yet I am always horrified.

steve11694

for the first 5 years my wife was less than normal social drinker. she confided thsat her father had physically abused her and did not love her cause her skin shade was slightly darker than her sister. she was not consumed with it and only mentioned it once. after my wife became alcoholic, she routinely referred to that to justify her drinking and reason not to participate in normal family activities. maybe your daughter was sexually abused, maybe not, but believe me the alcoholic logic can twist and warp anything to use it as an excuse even when it may have no bearing on the addiction.

It is hard letting go, but easier to surrender, as many of us already have.

nandm

First I would like to say, I am so sorry for your pain. I can emphasize to it on many levels and from several perspectives. I am an alcoholic, I am a sexual abuse survivor (my father), I am also the mother of two children who wound up abusing alcohol and drugs during their teenage years. I am going to relay my experiences with these and how they relate to what you and your daughter are going through in the hope that it will somehow either help you find a peace with what you are going through and or hope that it will change. I appologize if my response becomes lengthy I will try and keep it as short as possible.

First my alcoholism. I can very much relate to this statement in your post I spent the last 5 years of my drinking doing the exact same thing. I am going to quote a few passeges from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and then relate my experience. I no more than any other alcoholic could explain why I would wake up in the morning after a night of drinking and swear to myself that I would stop today. But by midday the little voice inside my head would start saying "you don't always drink like that," "Remember when such and such happened, wasn't that fun," "last night was just one of those times when you just drank too fast." Then by that evening my little voice would be saying "If you just eat before drinking then you won't get that drunk and everything will be okay," "Just limit the number of drinks and you won't have a problem," "But everyone drinks sometimes," "All my friends are going and I would look stupid not drinking with them." So needless to say no matter how many hundreds of bad experiences I had the night, week, month before my little voice always came up with "reasons" why it would be okay to pick up that first drink once again, sweeping the past under the carpet. I was beyond human aid. I had lost all control of whether I would pick up that drink or how much I would drink once I did. For me to stop it took a prayer of desperation, I was so miserable inside and hated that part of me that wouldn't stop drinking that I had decided that death would be better than continuing the way I was going, (in my mind I had decided that my drinking was just a slow suicide that was not only killing me but also anyone who loved or cared about me so it made perfect sense to me that night that there was no point in dragging it out any longer and taking more people down with me). My prayer that night was simple "God, or what ever is out there, please either give me the courage to put a gun to my head or show me how to live without having to drink." My experience is that I was given an answer, that morning I woke up and the first thought that came to my mind was "remember that piece of paper that so and so gave you when they said if you ever think you have a problem with alcohol give them a call?" I was amazed that even though several months had passed since then, and I had only met the person a few times I still was able to find that piece of paper. It took me two weeks to finally get up the courage to pick up the phone. But since that day I have not had to pick up a drink, that day was March 13, 2001. The woman took me to my first AA meeting, helped me to see that I had to see that I was powerless over alcohol and accept that there was a power that could relieve my alcoholism. This was a far stretch for someone who had as much resentment toward organized religion as I had. But I was desperate enough to listen long enough to understand that religion and spirituality are different although the two can be combined and that I did not have to believe in the God of my childhood, I could believe that the wind was more powerful than I and as long as I was willing to trust that wind to help me to be relieved of my alcohol problem then it would happen. She also helped me realize that I had been willing to go to any lengths to drink so I needed to be willing to go to any lengths to relieve my alcoholism. Those lengths for me meant surrendering to the concepts of AA doing exactly what was suggested in the program without question. If I allowed myself to start questioning things early in sobriety then that little voice would pop back up and say "but your just making too much of this, you really couldn't be an alcoholic." So I had to shut that voice up by not giving it a chance to speak.


My experience with sexual abuse. I am not going to go into any gory details as I do not believe it is an appropriate format for that and it really is not relevant to relate my experience. There were many times I used my experience of sexual abuse as an excuse to feel sorry for myself and drink. It also made me more vulnerable to toxic and abusive relationships. It was only after I had been sober a little while that I was able to actually start resolving some of my personal issues and behaviors associated with the abuse. I could not change the pain, frustration, anger, and resentment while I was drinking. It consumed and controlled me to much when I was in my disease of alcoholism. I have been in and out of therapy since a little after my first year of sobriety to deal with the abuse. Currently I have been actively in therapy for the past 3 years to deal with the PTSD and chronic anxiety related to this. It has helped but I do have to say it did get worse before it got better. But I was able to not drink while going through it because I continued and still continue to stay active in the program of AA. I have not been able to work for the past two years because of the PTSD. There have been points in the past 4 years where I was unable to leave my own home to even go to the store because of the PTSD. But I have no regrets today, I am continuing on working on becoming the best me I can be today. I know that I will continue to change and evolve and that as long as I do not drink there is always hope my life will get better. Oh and today, I am in a healthy, respectful, committed, and happy relationship and have been for nearly 7 years.

As far as your feelings of "if only," I will relay my experience regarding my children. During my early sobriety my two oldest children then 13 and 15 decided to stop going to school, they started bringing drugs and alcohol into my home as well as drug dealing punks. No matter how hard I fought with them on this I could not change what was going on. My oldest daughter started cutting on herself. I was terrified for them. The thought of them not only dropping out of school in the 9 and 10 grades but to be into the drugs and pain was overwhelming. I blamed myself. I was so lost in the "if onlys". I wound up getting to the point of sending them to live with my ex-husband who had not been in contact with them since they were 3 and 5 years old. From there they got into meth and prostitution. My oldest daughter would not even speak to me for a year.

So one might ask, "What got you through this?" Honestly, for me it was continuing to work on my sobriety, learning life tools such as boundaries, responsibility, and the fact that I can not control other people or their actions I can only change my own actions or how I react to others. I heard this said during the time all of this was going on and it stuck with me "My childrens problems may have be of my making but their solutions are of their own making." A simple way of reminding me that I can not change the past nor can I change them. I had to forgive myself and move forward, being there for my children the best that I could be today.

It took what seemed like an eternity. In reality it was only a couple of years before things changed. My oldest daughter started talking to me again after about a year, and moved back in with me at 3 years. Today, she is a productive member of society. She went back to school to get her certified nursing assistant certificate, has held down and moved up in the same job I set her up with when she moved back in with me nearly 4 years ago. She did have her own apartment for a while but with the cost of housing in this area she moved back in with me when her roomate moved out. She does not drink, do drugs, or even smoke cigarettes any longer. She has learned to deal with pain and fear without resorting to cutting on herself. My other daughter moved in with her grandmother, has gotten her GED and is currently in vet tech school with plans of being a vetrinarian. Although I suspect she drinks occassionally, she appears to have a good head on her shoulders and it does not appear to be out of hand anymore. Today I have the best emotional relationship with my children that I have ever had. I know that I could not have made their decisions for them any more than they could have made my decisions for me when I was drinking. We both had to find our own paths of healing.

I appologize for the length of this post. I do hope that you were able find some hope or at least understanding through it. I would suggest that you look into a group called ALANON for yourself and/or your husband as it can truly help you with what you are facing right now with your daughter. There are people there that are or have gone through what you are going through and can help provide you with the tools you need to get through this. Don't give up on hope that your daughter can get better but please realize she has to find her solutions, you can not make them for her. This is a very hard line to walk but you can do it. From expereince I can say it is easier to do with a group of people who have been where I have been and ALANON might be that group for you.

I wish you the best.

Morning Glory

Hi witsendtrying2,

Both my children are alcoholics and both were sexually abused as children. My daughter quit drinking to be a better mother and then started having flash backs of her abuse and had a complete PTSD breakdown. She worked though all of it in counseling and has been sober for 13 years.

My son has struggled more and still struggles with his recovery. He has not faced his abuse yet or the death of his father. He had to hit his own bottom and there was not much I could do to help him. I tried everything, but recovery has to come from within them when they are ready. What I saw as his bottom was just not so.

I had to see that I am powerless over my son's alcoholism. When I still thought I had some power I couldn't detach. It is very unnatural for a mother to leave her child out there in danger and the changes I had to make to do that were terrifying at first and very painful. I took one risk at a time when I was ready. Some of those changes were after I hit bottom and the only way up was with change. I realized there was nothing I could do to save my son and it wouldn't help if I drowned with him. I jumped on the life raft without him. I took small steps and took the actions I could live with. As time went on I could live with a lot more. My son just had a year sober and relapsed. He is working on it again.

I hope family intervention and treatment works for your daughter. If it doesn't you may need to start taking some risks. The more she is responsible for her own life and consequences the better chance she has of wanting recovery. When she wants it she will find the help.

You will need lots of support when you're going through this. Please reach out to others in al-anon or here on the forum. I still get knocked off my feet now and then. We really need each other.

Many hugs,
MG

greeteachday

My heart goes out to you...I understand the pain you are feeling. I lost one daughter to heroin and the other was a binge drinker and garbage addict. I think because she did not live with me, (her little sister did and with heroin, the spiral down is fast and furious, so I knew things were bad) I did not fully realize the depths of her problems until she chose recovery. Perhaps in a way that was good, since I was not trying to control her drinking or change her. I did enable though...I was in total denial and thought she was simply immature. My enabling was primarily monetary bail outs, but I certainly was totally codependent...not happy unless my children were happy. My daughter also had 3 dui's and thankfully the last one made a difference. Not because of the dui, but because it was either 6 months in jail or 3 months rehab and 3 in jail. She chose the 3 and 3 and those 3 months in rehab (it was an AA house from way back...they pretty much loved her clean) gave her time for her brain to start healing and to get a good solid foundation in recovery and the 12 steps. Having to face the consequences of her prior actions a year after she chose to stop drinking seemed to make her even more determined to stay the path. Today she works full time (despite having no license for 10 years...our state has pretty tough dui laws) is back in college full time, works a program with her sponsor and speaks at many programs and meetings.

I tell you this because I found that I could never know what was next or what would/could be "bottom." I learned through working and continuing to work an "anon" program for me, that the best thing I could do was give my child over daily to her higher power, and continue to work on me. I'm happy to say that because of recovery, we are both have found a better way to live.

You and your daughter are in my prayers.

witsendtrying2

Thank you all so very much. I have read each of your posts and it was heartwarming to know that you understood and cared.

It is now Monday morning over here and I can tell you that for the time being there is a shift in her attidute. She has kept herself extremely busy, has refused to attend various invitations to parties etc, has been reading and has not had a drink in days. The first step.

Hubby and I have detached quite easily. It is hard not to ask questions or sit down and project what we think onto her, but we are doing it. The detachment is working. We talk to her about things in general, but not about her.

We are doing what we need to do for ourselves and supporting each other. It is nice not to be consumed with her.

An old friend of hers phoned her yesterday. He does not drink and she actually decided to have dinner with him. I think this was good for her. She needs to establish new friendships with people who do not drink.

The boundaries were redefined on her on Saturday. We changed tactics. We changed the way we speak to her. Firm, calm and serious. We called her by her name and no more will be said about any of this from here on in.

We have known for quite awhile that she had to solve her own problems but b/c of our enabling and codependency (which I had no idea about until a few weeks ago) did make it hard for her to solve her own problems. I/we have stepped right out of that arena and she is now having to do things for herself.

In regards to all the other things she is dealing with, they too have to be dealt with separately. We told her that we did not have the answers for her, nor could we be part of her solution, that all we had to offer was our love and caring and if she wanted, part of her support group. Everything was up to her and only her.

She has contacted AA's again and spoke at length to this man but as yet she hasn't joined.

It has been suggested that I attend the first few meetings with her. Do you think this is advisable, or not? I have my reservations about going with her. It may hold her back.

There is so much more I could say, but right now I just wanted to thank you all for giving me so much of your time and your experiences and wisdom. Thank you so much.

Witsend

CarolD

:praying
Prayers for you and your family coming your way.

nandm

Quote:

Originally Posted by witsendtrying2

It has been suggested that I attend the first few meetings with her. Do you think this is advisable, or not? I have my reservations about going with her. It may hold her back.

I am so happy that you have found a way to have some peace around what is going on. I truly wish the best for you and your family. As far as your question about attending a few meetings with her, I personally see no harm in this although this is coming from an alcoholic point of view. It would give you a little better understanding of what goes on in an AA meeting and also provide her with a little moral support when she attends her first few meetings. I would suggest though that if you do go you make sure that the meeting is an open rather than closed meeting (an open meeting is open to anyone to attend including the general public, family, friends of the alcoholic as well as students, a closed meeting is intended for people that consider themselves to be alcoholics). I would also encourage her to arrive early and stick around afterward to get to know a few people. By doing that she should start to form a support group within the meeting which will help her in her sobriety. Another thing is if you go encourage her to let others know that she is new to AA, or returning after relapse as the case may be, this will bring to the attention of others that they need to make a point to introduce themselves to her. Remeber that what I am saying is coming from the alcoholics point of view rather than the family member point of view so please listen to what makes sense to you. This is just my opinion based on my experiences.

BigSis

(((Witsendtrying))) <---- that means "hugs".


Please know you are not alone. Lots of moms on these forums, lots of us came in here feeling alone and scared to the bone that our children were at the verge of death. What a horrible way that is to live.


Oh, and did I beat myself up for the things I didn't do, most of the things I did do and many of the things I never considered doing. Here is a short story -

My kid goes to her first rehab and all the patients and all the parents are in a big circle in a huge room. There must have been fifty of us. The counselor went around to each parent and asked them to name the reasons they believed their child was an alcoholic or addict.

One parent said - "I was too tough on him. I expected perfection."
The next said - "I was too lenient on him, I took him out of school sometimes to go skiing. I didn't teach him to respect authority."
The next said - "It was his dad's fault".
Another said - "Her mom lets her do anything."
One said - "It is those terrible, awful friends"....


And so this continued, around the circle. It became obvious that the point of the exercise was that, among us in that room, we had tried nearly every thing. Medication, boot camps, sleep doctors, psychologist, pastors, counselors... everything.

And yet, all of us, each one of us... we were all in this together. Each of us had addicted or alcoholic children. Each of us was scared to death. Each of us had run out of answers.

What I finally learned, and continue to learn... is that I can SPEED UP the addiction or the alcholism by enable... by getting in the way of the natural consequences and trying to make a "soft landing" or "ease the blow". But I cannot SLOW or STOP the addiction.

The only one who can do that is my daughter. At her time. When she has had enough to MAKE the sort of changes that are required.

She stopped for two years, but has recently relapsed. She (I hope) is learning that stopping "for" another person works fine... until that other person is gone, or you are no longer happy with that other person. Today, she is relearning how to want sobriety ENOUGH for her own reasons.


In the meantime, *I* am relearning my boundaries. She is on her last chance, then we have to let her go... which currently looks like we keep the two babies and let her go out on the street.

I don't want that.... but I don't want her to die active in her disease, and if I make it too easy for her, that will be the choice she will make.


Today, I am not scared - like I was when I first got here in 2003. Today, I know that nothing I do or say will change her final decision. I know she has to walk whatever path she is on until she is ready to get off. But I cannot do this alone. I need everyone here at SR, and I also need my face to face Alanon meetings. Without those, I would be dead.... no exaggeration.


I do wish you well and hope you continue to come in here and lean on those who've been down this road before. ((hugs))

PHIZ007

Wow look at the progress you hve made already?

It is amazing how quickly by changing our own behaviour positive things can happen.

Hugs to you and you family...PHIZ :0)

witsendtrying2

Well, I guess it was predictable. She is on it again tonight. I suppose 4 days is her limit. She just couldn't leave it alone.

I am so, so disappointed, sad, disgusted and so scared of the consequences for her, but I am really trying to leave my thoughts alone. I could cry but I am not going to.

This is all hers to own and I will not allow her actions to affect me. I was saying to my hubby this pm how easy it is to detach from her, but it is hard to detach from my feelings and concern related to her. I have to learn very fast how to do this.

I was a bit stupid in thinking that maybe she would be home early today and tell me that she avoided the handouts she was offered. All her alcoholic mates keep supplying her and she keeps accepting. She doesn't have any money, but is still able to get drunk. That blows me away.

So the enabling continues - not by us, but by her so called mates. It really is a loosing battle until she stands up and fights for herself.

Oh how sad this is. Another precious life is being wasted and not one single person, other than herself can save her from this misery.

greeteachday

I'm sorry...Unfortunatley recovery is a process, both for us and for our kids. It usually is not a straight line...filled with ups and downs. I don't think it is really possible to fully emotionally detach form our kids, and no matter what, I wouldn't want to. I will always love my kids and be concerned for their welfare. I just can't let that take over my life the way I had in the past.
It helped me in times like you are experiencing to remember that it is the disease that I hate and am so disappointed in, not my child. Hugs

Morning Glory

I've never been able to detach emotionally, but I've learned to cope with the emotions a lot better and redirect my thoughts a lot more.

How old is she witsend?