Pajarito

I could use some feedback on something I am noticing with my AH that I am sure will eventually affect our DD-if it isn't already. He's been out of the house for 8 months, sees her t/th nights and every other weekend. It's been 4 days now and he's had no contact with her. No phone calls- nothing. She's 10. She does not ask about him when this happens, so I am not pushing it. I personally do not feel like talking to him- we are cordial, though. Yes, I could tell our DD to call him if he is not calling her, but why??? I go back and forth on this. On one hand am I going back to my codie ways if I try to control how much contact they have? Or- knowing that she needs him in her life (my opinion- but then he's not truly been involved for a very long time due to his addiction) should I initiate her calling him? It bothers me that he is her dad- the adult- but he's not making the effort to contact her. It's very sad. . . BUT- should I interfere? I am sure some of you have had experience with this. How did you handle it?

Freedom1990

I completely agree with not pushing it. My opinion would be to try to engage in conversation with your daughter, if nothing else, ask her how she is feeling that he hasn't called in four days? It's important to let her know you are there for her (which I'm sure you do already), and that you care about her feelings. If she expresses a desire to call him, then by all means allow her to do that.

My youngest daughter's father and I were never married. I met him early on in my own recovery at an AA dance. He was sober 12 years at the time.

He has been as uninvolved in her life as an active alcoholic would have been, so that kind of behavior isn't just limited to someone still drinking and/or using. Sigh.

He didn't even know her name until he got the court papers when paternity was established (she was 6 months old at the time).

When she was 8, she really started asking questions about her dad, and I felt badly there had been no contact. I took great care never to speak badly about him.

I was scared to death, but I decided to sit down and write him a letter, letting him know she was interested in a relationship with her father, and would he be open to that?

I had no idea if the man was still sober.

He was (still is), and responded that he did indeed want a relationship with her. He only lives 35 miles away, so he started coming over regularly, and she also started spending a weekend here and there with him and her stepmother.

That petered out over a year's time, and the last time he saw her during that time period, he looked at her and said 'call me if you want to do something.'

He dropped all contact after that, although her stepmom cared enough to maintain contact and do things with her.

Bear in mind he's 6' 5", a biker, talks with a very lowwww voice, and to my daughter, she was shy anyway, and it was intimidating to her.

I asked her several times over the years if she wanted to call him and she said no. I told her I was sorry her father had quit contacting her.

She's almost 20 now, and although I know she loves her father, she's also angry that he pretty much dropped out of her life.

You are right in that he is an adult, and he should be initiating the contact. Sadly, it doesn't always happen that way, even with a sober father, as I have shared with you.

Sometimes the best thing we can do is just love our kids, encourage them to share their feelings, and let them know it has NOTHING to do with them, and everything to do with 'Dad', which is the truth.

I hope this helps in some small way

Bernadette

Hmmm
sorry Pajarito this sounds painful to deal with.

I guess I would just keep the communication open between you and your daughter.

Don't assume that she is not thinkng about it.

Maybe just bring it up loving and calmy - like hey you know the arrangement was for you to see dad 2x a week and I realize that this is not happening - if that's bothering you or you ever have a question about dad (or dad's addiction) I'm always here for you to talk to.

And just let it go at that for a while....see if she has any problem with it.

My ex moved to another country when my kids were young - it broke my heart for my boys, but i just kinda said as above "I know its hard having Papa so far away and I'm always here to talk about it!" Did it boggle my mind that ex couldn't even frickin call ONCE a week to speak to his beautiful sons??? YES!!! I was disgusted. But I never bad mouth their father. (to them!!!)

As a bonus I found this method works for most uncomfortable talks with my kids - first acknowledge what everybody knows (call the elephant in the room an elephant!!) and then just BE there, calmly, to listen or answer questions....sometimes it takes a few days but they come back to me and say something or ask a question.....

Good Luck- your daughter is so lucky to have YOU!
Peace,
B.

Pajarito

You've helped a lot- just in sharing your story. I do not badmouth my AH to her. She knows he is an alcoholic, but I know she doesn't really get what that means. He didn't do any acting out in front of her, but he does "drop out" physically as well as emotionally sometimes. The other thing I am not sure about is how much to bring up with her. If I bring up the fact that he hasn't called her, is that starting something she hadn't really thought about anyway? My counselor would probably tell me to talk to her. Ugh! I just hate how hard this is. Things like this come up that are not normal or easy. It takes a lot of thought. And it's hard, sad stuff. (((Thanks!)))

Pajarito

Thank you- your story helps too. I am sure it's better to acknowledge that my DD knows more than I think she does. I shouldn't assume. I am sad for her. She is so beautiful- inside and out- and she deserves a dad who is fully involved everyday. He has so little contact with her- even when they see each other it's not for very long. I'll have to think about how to talk to her about this.

Bernadette

Well again I would say don't assume that she's NOT thinking about it.
I mean, it's her Dad. A pretty major force, whether he is present or not.
If you bring it up and she is all fine with it then, no problem. But like I said - other uncomfortable talks often have to be initiated throughout life by the parent - if you set up a sort of structure for that now you will find it gets easier to honestly address life's tough issues that are bound to come up (safe sex, drug/alcohol use, choice of friends, media influence, violence, relationships ETC!!!)

It is HARD stuff you are RIGHT!!!
(((HUGS)))
Peace,
B.

best

When I was separated, as a form of respect that a dad should be given by children... On a visit, my sons just sat in the other room when I showed up. My wife said... Your father is here, come say hello.
One son says hi from the other room, one son says nothing.
She did her part and they made their own choices.
When his actions speak to her, she will reply or stay away as his actions dictate

Kindeyes

Well......your daughter may have a very healthy outlook on this whole thing. Loving detachment. Who knows. Looking back at my situation there are so many things I wish I had done differently. We do the best we can at the time and we can't change the past.

Does your daughter generally talk to you about difficult things? Do you think she would bring it up if it was bothering her? If you bring it up, are you telling her that it is bothering you....and if it wasn't bothering her before, would that make it bother her? So many questions and there are no perfect answers. You are her mother. You know her better than anyone else in the world knows her. Do what you believe to be the right thing.

gentle hugs

Freedom1990

Honestly, I don't think it will bring up anything she isn't already thinking of. Children are a lot more perceptive than we think, and they need a parent who will listen.

I try not to 'borrow trouble', that is, I live in the moment, and don't fear what might be asked later?

Fear for me is absence of faith, and I have faith that God will walk with me through anything that may come my way, questions and all!

You're a terrific and loving mother. Try to focus on what she does have (you), and not on what she doesn't have (a consistent father in her life).

:ghug2

nowinsituation

Paj - In the parenting class I took (as part of the divorce process here) they brought this issue up. Their advice was to basically open the door of communication with your children. They said it is not very effective to simply ask "How are you doing?", or "Are you doing OK"; because the kids are going to say that everything is OK. They don't want to add any more stress on you than you already have. They suggested asking in a way that opens the door -- such as "Are you feelings sad/mad/_____ about things? You know, if I were you, I would probably be feeling a little sad/mad/______. It's OK if you are, and you can always talk to me about it." Something like that anyway.

I specifically questioned them on this -- because my concerns were that you would just be planting the emotion, that the kids would think that they are supposed to feel sad or mad when maybe they really weren't. The counselor at the class said that would not be the case; that kids are more likely to open up if they feel safe -- they need to feel that they are not going to upset you or add more stress to your life. They are people-pleasers, especially when those people are their parents.

Now, in practice, I have not done very well at this myself. I just can't seem to get the words out without it sounding sarcastic and insincere -- or fearing that I will say negative things about STBX. Good luck!

Pajarito

She does talk to me. And I do try to talk to her now and then about what is going on, but this has had me stumped. Maybe I don't want to call her attention to his shortcomings. I tried for years to hide his crap- to protect her from what was going on. Now I can't do that as easily- and to be honest I think it's been part of my problem- trying to control what can't be controlled. And I can't protect her from everything- I can only help her understand or listen. I suppose it's in how I talk about it. I am not badmouthing him, and want very much to convey to her that he is struggling and it has nothing to do with her.

My worry is what you asked above- is my bringing it up going to create a situation where she can tell I'm bothered- so that bothers her. I know- it's in my delivery. Even if I appear to be perfectly calm- the topic is sad- and that is something she may have not thought about but probably will once I bring it out in the open. I believe I do need to. She is an amazing, thoughtful and bright child- if I do say so myself. I've heard many times that if I'm ok, she'll be ok. Right now I don't feel entirely ok. I feel very sad- although I don't show it much to her. If we talk about what's going on I do tell her I'm sad. . . ok- I'm rambling. Thanks for your input. . . Paj

Pajarito

Thank you- I think this is a great suggestion- sort of aligning myself with her feelings so she knows it's ok to feel them.
((((()))))

Barbara52

Its my experience that kids take on responsibility for adult problems when issues are not discussed openly. It might be a good idea to go to a family therapist together to work out just what she needs, how she wants to communicate with you and with her father about everything that is going on and to help her understand she is not at fault in any of this. Children tend to believe things are their fault.

nowwhat

I am going through the same thing right now and am grateful to see this discussed. My two younger children have no clue why the divorce happened, other than "mommy and daddy were fighting too much." He moved out of town about six months into the separation and isn't having much contact.

It is very sad, but I tend to agree that it's critical to keep the lines of communication open. What I don't know is whether or not to eventually explain the underlying causes of the divorce--addiction.

My oldest son understands this, but in truth he didn't REALLY understand it until it began to affect him personally (ie Dad didn't pay son's cell phone bill like he's supposed to and now son has no phone).

Hard stuff.

Pajarito

Hi- Thanks and welcome. I've found a lot of great support here. What I am hearing is that it is important to discuss addiction with the kids- but at their level. My DD knows her dad is an alcoholic, but she thinks he's a recovering alcoholic. Mind you- I have no idea whether he is drinking or not, but it doesn't matter. His behavior has been unacceptable. Interesting to note- she saw my medallion from al-anon and said dad has one too- why do you have one? Dad told me it's a boy scout medallion. . . I then had to explain why I have one- the truth. It's situations like that that I feel sad about- that he lied to her and can't be one of the many proud, grateful recovering alcoholics.

I hope you'll continue to post and read. This is a great place. (((Peace)))

Freedom1990

If she sees you sad, she knows it's okay to feel sad.

One of my greatest regrets with my oldest was not allowing her to see me upset such as being sad because I wanted to protect her.

What I did teach her was it was okay to stuff feelings

wooforever

Here is my opion on this. I have 3 kids. The older two are from my first marriage. My X raised our daughter and I raised our son. When he had to move out of the country for his tour of duty(Navy) I wrote my daughter and called her as much as I could. I wanted to know I loved her and if she ever need me I would be there. I kept writing and calling and then emailing she is now 23 yrs old. I never heard from my daughter until she was 16 yrs old. She never wrote me back due to the fact she never received any of the mail I sent her. I also kept writing my sons father sending pictures to him of his son(21), but still to this day his father has never contacted him.

Now with my youngest one his father is in recovery, I use to hide things from him about his father. His father went to prison for 18 months in that time he was in a fire camp and we got to see him out of the prison, but we never told him where is dad was really. My son now is 15 and I use call his father all time to let him know what was going on. He father was not interested in him. Since he was 12 he knows who and what his dad in the past nothing hidden. When of if his father calls or stops by to see him I let him decided if he wants anything to do with him. I guess what I am saying is let her make a choice.

Tell her if she would like to talk to her father call him. Then is his choice to call her back. You are a mother and that is what we do is protect our kids. Sooner or later she will know that you help her try everything to keep in contact with her father. Yes she may get hurt but you will be there to pick her up and dust her off.

Let her know that what her father does is not because of her it is him. That it will be his loss for not getting to know the best thing in his life.

peaceteach

Not saying one way or another what the answer is, but offering up a suggestion for "talks" with preteens and teenagers. Mine HATED having "the talk" about anything that was emotional or stressful, particularly as they became teenagers. I have had the best talks with my kids at that age while driving in the car or on the phone with them. There was something about sitting in a quiet room with eye contact that shut them up and just got one-word answers. But the freedom of not looking me directly in the eye and also having other distractions did seem to allow them to have more voice.

Freedom1990

I'm glad you brought that up. My youngest, now almost 20, tends to open up more when we are driving somewhere, or cooking together, something other than sitting in a room face to face. She's been that way since her early teens.

Bernadette

" I am sad for her. She is so beautiful- inside and out- and she deserves a dad who is fully involved everyday. He has so little contact with her- even when they see each other it's not for very long. I'll have to think about how to talk to her about this."

hey Paj-
Don't automatically assume that this is ALL bad for your daughter either. I mean - yes it is bad, and it sux to have an unavailable father - it sux MAJOR to have an alcoholic father. But always remember your daughter has her own destiny in life and with your love and guidance she will learn to handle these kind of very painful trials. Sometimes I read the biographies of people I admire and I am nothing less than floored by the hardships they endured. Always there was that one positive loving strong person who believed in them along the way.

Just be careful not to unconsciously project to her that this is so tragic or unbearable..I don't know if I'm making sense or not--it's a fine line - it's not denial it's acknowledging the truth but deciding "we can handle this!" I guess with my boys when their Papa left the country I acknowledged that it sucked but I also didn't want them to have the feeling that this was the "worst" thing that was gonna happen to them in their lives, y'know. Like now they were gonna be damaged. Cuz there are actually worse things. Maybe it is actually a blessing he is AWOL....all this to say THUMBS UP MOM!!! You obviously love and care for your daughter so much - and she is Blessed with that - no matter what life flings at her!!
Peace,
B.