Financial challenges from alcoholic brother living here

Old 03-24-2008, 07:40 PM
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Financial challenges from alcoholic brother living here

Hello...I'm new here, and posted in the Welcome Forum. Someone suggested my post might fit better here, so I'm copying it below.

I'm hoping that someone here might identify, and maybe even have some suggestions about our situation.

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Hi, everyone...This forum was suggested to me, as I am looking for help in how to handle a situation with my alcoholic brother who lives with us.

A little over a year ago, my brother was asked to leave where he was staying, which was with my other brother and his wife. He had no place to go, so my husband and I allowed him to move into the tiny apartment we have downstairs in our home. My brother assured me when he moved in that this was to be "temporary", just until he "got back on his feet", "saved a little money", etc.

As I said, this was about a year and a half ago, and he hasn't "gotten on his feet" yet. In fact, he got himself fired from his job. Instead of actively and regularly looking for a new job, he spends time sitting in the bars, or else he sits downstairs watching television. He is always either depressed or in a bad mood, and always declares that he can "never catch a break". This is very untrue, as our whole family constantly tries to help him in any way we can, especially financially.

He hasn't had any luck recently in finding a permanent job, but has found a couple of temporary jobs. The problem is, when he gets a check, he is not paying his rent first. He always has a reason for why he can't pay. Either he had a "short week", didn't get paid for sick days, child support "took all his money", etc.

We do not ask him for much at all. It isn't even really "rent". We just asked him to throw in a little bit each month to cover his share of water, electricity, heat, etc.

My husband and I live on a fixed income, and cannot afford to have somebody living here that isn't paying for their share of the expenses. I've mentioned this to my brother more than once, but it doesn't seem to sink in. He is now running a full month behind on paying us, and we do not have the money to carry him. I'm taking money from what we've set aside to pay property taxes to pay the bills while he hasn't had work.

We've found out that, even though he doesn't "have enough" to pay for his share of the expenses here, he DOES have money to drink in the bars, drink beer at home, and smoke pot. I am feeling very angry and used at this point, but love my brother and don't want to throw him out on the street. He doesn't have anywhere else to go at this point.

To top it all off, today he came home early and told me that he had gotten laid off from his temporary job, which means that he'll, once more, be up here telling me that he "can't catch a break" and is "short this week", but he'll "catch up soon" on what he owes us.

I don't want to be an angry older sister who reprimands him, and orders him to go out daily looking for work, but at the same time, we can't afford to keep paying for his share of the expenses. It wouldn't be so stressful if we made a lot of money, but we don't, and it is.

I've searching through the old posts on these forums, but haven't yet found any situations similar to ours.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd appreciate hearing them. I am not good at all with confrontation, and I dread having to put my foot down with my brother. I hate being the "bad guy", but I don't see many other choices at this point.

Thank you for reading...
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vtsister View Post
My husband and I live on a fixed income, and cannot afford to have somebody living here that isn't paying for their share of the expenses. I've mentioned this to my brother more than once, but it doesn't seem to sink in. He is now running a full month behind on paying us, and we do not have the money to carry him. I'm taking money from what we've set aside to pay property taxes to pay the bills while he hasn't had work.
So, you're sacrificing in order for him to go drink at the bars? Am I reading this right? And you feel bad about kicking him out because he has no place to go?

Just curious, why did your other brother kick him out? Could it have been because of the same behavior patterns?

It sounds like his plan is to keep on using people up until he runs out of people to use. I know this may sound harsh, but you are getting in the way of him hitting bottom. Until he actually feels the consequences of his behavior, what reason does he have to change the way he behaves?

More to the point, why do you feel like you should have to sacrifice your security and financial well-being to finance his self-destructive lifestyle?

L
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:11 PM
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Welcome! Sorry you are in the midst of all this.

If I were in your shoes, I would start educating myself on alcoholism and learn how I am enabling his drinking, how I can stop enabling him and help myself deal with it all. Have you tried AlAnon?

If it were me, I would give him a definite deadline to move out. Obviously he finds it easy to ignore the fact that he owes you rent because he has learned he can safely do so. He has no motivation to change that since its to his advantage to continue to use you. So tell him he has 30 days to find another place. Period. And if he doesn't, dump his stuff on the front lawn and change the locks. Treat him as you would any other tenant who is not paying their rent. He can only use you as long as you choose to let him.
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:37 AM
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Thank you, LaTeeDa and Barbara52, for your replies.

LaTeeDa, at first we didn't know that he was out drinking. He's been through treatment twice previously, and has remained clean and sober for varying amounts of times afterwards. At the time we let him move in with us, I didn't know that he was back to drinking and smoking pot.

Yes, I feel very bad, very guilty about telling him he has to leave, especially when I know he doesn't have a job. It breaks my heart to think of my brother sleeping on a park bench somewhere, or living in his car in the middle of winter.

I hate feeling used and taken advantage of, but I don't know where the line is between "helping family" and "enabling".

This wouldn't even be an issue if he'd kept his job, because up until then, he had faithfully paid his rent on time, every time.

I don't know why he got kicked out of my other brother's house. I didn't ask. (That brother is also an alcoholic and not easy to talk to much of the time.) I didn't think it was my business to ask that anyway.

Barbara52, I just don't know how to approach this pay-your-rent-or-you're-out issue. Just last week I had talked to him about catching up on what he owed. He was going to pay me extra each week until he got caught up, but now he's laid off again and won't have any money.

When I talked to him last week, I told him that we were looking for a place to move to, and that meant he'd have to look for another place too, but that he could have until October to move out because we are just starting to look for a place, and I'm sure it will take some time to sell our house before we move. I used that as the reason for him needing to move because I figured that way, he wouldn't feel like he was being "kicked out", and there would be no hard feelings. I also felt like it was giving him plenty of time to find another place, especially since living with us was supposed to be just "temporary", and he's now been here almost a year and a half. (And not a bit better off than when he first moved in, I might add.)

Isn't it mean to "kick a person when he's down" though, meaning, isn't it rather hard-hearted of me to tell my brother he's got to get out, when just yesterday he told me he doesn't have a job again?
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by vtsister View Post
I don't know where the line is between "helping family" and "enabling".
First let me say I know none of this is easy. Its very hard to figure and then do what is right for you.

In figuring where the line between helping and enabling lies, a good rule of thumb is are you doing something the person is capable of doing for themselves?

Can your brother, an adult, be expected to find and hold a job, be self supporting, find a palce to live and pay for it? Unless there is something you haven't said, the answer is yes.

Enabling means removing the natural consequences of his choices. By removing those consequences, good and bad, you prevent him from being responsible for his actions and choices and in many ways hold him back from being an adult.

Unfortunately, there are way too many cases where a alcoholic has to hit bottom before they are ready to begin their road rto recovery. For some, that bottom unfortunately includes slepping on a park bench as you fear might happen. He is an adult, capable of deciding what he wants from life, whether that is what you or I would choose ot not.
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:29 AM
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Thank you, Barbara52. I guess it all comes down to, if my brother had kept his job, this wouldn't even be an issue at all because he hasn't been any trouble since he's been here. I love my brother very much, and when he's not drinking, it's just like having a "regular" brother sharing your house.

He's quiet, goes to work, does his own thing...

It's just that we can't afford to carry anyone else financially. Our own budget is too tight.

I get all angry inside when he sits downstairs watching tv instead of being out job hunting, but I don't say anything to him because I don't know what my boundaries are as a sister. I'm not his landlord; I'm his sister. I'm not his mommy; I'm his sister.

I'm very confused about what my role is right now, and what I should or should not say to him. I try to stay out of his business and let him handle things, but I get all wound up inside, watching him be careless about his responsibilities.

I believe he WANTS a job. He just doesn't go about searching for one in the same way I would. I've always read that when you need a job, you are supposed to consider it your "job" to find one, putting in eight hours a day, every day, searching for one--not sitting in front of the television, checking the want ads, or looking online once in awhile, then more or less waiting for something to fall into your lap. But as his sister, I don't feel it's my place to keep nagging at him, to keep asking him when he's going to pay his rent, etc.

I don't know if I need to give him an ultimatum, such as pay your rent in full by the end of next month or you have to get out, or what. I feel like that's not giving him much of a chance. Him getting laid off at the temp job wasn't his fault. The guy he was replacing came back to work earlier than the company thought he would.

Plus, since I just told my brother last week that he could have until October before he had to leave here, wouldn't that be going back on my word to tell him that he has to get out right away?

Hard to know what to do, that's for sure...
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:00 AM
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I hate feeling used and taken advantage of, but I don't know where the line is between "helping family" and "enabling".
Finding and holding a job, and pitching in financially doesn't appear to be on his list of priorities, does it?

Why should it be? He's learned that he has a 'safe place to fall', a place to call home where nothing really is required of him, no?

I went through that whole thing of 'she has no place to go' when my oldest daughter got out after serving 9 months on felony drug charges.

I set down the rules in MY household and allowed her to stay. She broke every rule in the house, including sneaking booze in and stashed it in her closet.

That lasted one month. I showed her the front door, changed the locks and got a restraining order on her (she also drug my then 15 year old daughter into some things).

I have also been on the other side of the fence as an alcoholic/addict myself, now in recovery for many years.

My parents almost loved me to death.

We don't change until the pain of drinking/using becomes greater than the fear of recovery.

In my opinion, you are enabling your brother.
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:34 AM
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I understand your confusion right now. Since you don't quite understand the difference between helping and enabling, I would suggest a couple of wonderful books to help you identify the classic role of codependence.

Codependence No More by Melody Beattie
Getting them Sober by Toby Rice Drew

Unfortunately your brother is doing what alcoholics do.....he is using you and he will continue to do so as long as he is permitted. You understand your boundaries in regard to him but he is stomping all over YOUR boundaries. You sound like a wonderful human being. A kind, caring, loving person who sacrifices for themselves in order to give or do for others.

It is difficult to understand until you do some reading or go to some Alanon meetings, but when you concentrate on doing what is right for YOU.....it is the kindest thing you can do for your brother.

I am the mother of an adult alcoholic son. I have enabled and protected him for years. Unknowingly I supported his addiction with my love and constant assistance. It was very difficult for me to change those behaviors and I have to work at it daily. He is currently in an intensive outpatient program.

A year and a half ago I never would have believed that there was a wrong way to love or such thing as loving too much........but there is.

You do have choices........and you are not alone.

gentle hugs
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:36 AM
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I had to look at it this way, by 'helping' my brother financially I was helping him buy his Vodka, which I've no doubt will kill him eventually. So I had to keep my mind fixed on the fact that by giving him money, or loans I was helping him kill himself. I don't give him a penny anymore, he still has his house and car and he still finds money for his vodka. He doesn't need my help, but if I gave it he'd take and take and I'd be the one left with nothing to feed my kids with.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:06 AM
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I would say something like: "You can stay until October as long as you pay the rent on time. Pay the back rent you owe within the next xx days, and you can stay. Otherwise, I will have to ask you to leave." Keep it neutral. If he tries to lay on a guilt trip (which he most likely will as addicts are very manipulative), say: "I love you. You are smart. I know you can handle it." Leave it to that.
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:40 AM
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It sounds like what you want is for him to change. That's what I wanted, too. Through Al Anon, therapy and our family doctor, I learned I can't get another person to change. I learned to look at reality and, as an adult, accept it.

Only you can decide whether to put your brother out. Accepting that if you do not means you will suffer the financial consequences is your CHOICE.

Please keep posting - it helps a lot.

((( )))
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:27 AM
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Freedom1990, Kindeyes, LucyA, mamaplus2kids, and denny57, thank you all for your replies.

I can see there's a lot of wisdom here. It's a lot to take in and process when you aren't used to thinking like this.

Kindeyes, thank you for the book suggestions. I once had that book in the house, "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. (I think it belonged to my brother.) At the time, I thought this stuff was all just a bunch of hooie and I got rid of the book. I probably should have hung onto it. My library might have it though.

Mamaplus2kids, thank you for giving me specific examples of things I could say to my brother. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Now I've just got to figure out how long to give him to catch up on his back rent before I have to ask him to leave.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:47 AM
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I think one of the greatest gifts I have received in recovery from both my addictions and codependency was realizing I wasn't in this thing alone.

I always find those who have walked the path before me, and then there are those newer than me that I can sometimes share my experiences with.

I'm glad you're here and I hope you continue to post!
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990 View Post
I think one of the greatest gifts I have received in recovery from both my addictions and codependency was realizing I wasn't in this thing alone.

I always find those who have walked the path before me, and then there are those newer than me that I can sometimes share my experiences with.

I'm glad you're here and I hope you continue to post!
Thank you. It sure does help to know that others have been down this path before.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:13 PM
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A woman in my Al-Anon group and a former addict told us that the hardest thing she ever had to do in her life was to ask her son to move out. They had had a deal: he could stay with her as long as he wasn't using. After finding bottles under his bed, she told him her findings and said: "You are jeopardizing my sobriety. You will have to leave as we had agreed." She told us that this was the hardest thing she ever had to do in her life. Within a month of leaving his mother's house, her son went into a recovery program. Now, I can't say that this will happen with your brother. But I can tell you that by enabling him, you are taking away even the smallest chance that it might.
A really good book I would recommend: "Addict in the Family" by Beverly Conyers.
Whatever time frame you pick, you must stick to it. Doing what's best is hard sometimes and takes courage. It may also be helpful to go to some Al Anon meetings to find some more support.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:08 PM
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Hi, and welcome to SR...I'm so sorry you're going through this. The harsh truth is that he is taking advantage of you because of his addiction--alcoholics will use manipulation and lies to get everyone and anyone to support their lifestyle; they will use guilt trips, try to get you to pity them and feel sorry for them, and basically allow you to take care of all their responsibilities and make you out to be the "bad guy" whenever you attempt to set any boundaries.

It may sound harsh, but you are not helping your brother by allowing him to continue to avoid the reality of his situation and his alcoholism--you are hurting him. The only thing that might help (and I say might) is to allow him to experience the consequences of his actions. That is when he will change, if he decides to change at all.

I hope this does not sound harsh...I am just writing from the experience of dealing with my sister's alcoholism. She is 40 and has been an addict for nearly 15 years. She's been in and out of treatment and has never quite taken responsibility for her issues until recently. The reason? She didn't have to take responsibility because everyone in our family was doing it for her. By "helping" her we were allowing her to continue her behavior. I thought for the longest time that I was "helping her" by giving her $, making excuses for her, pitying her, etc. etc. I finally realized that, yes, she is an addict, but she is also an adult, and she should be responsible for her behavior and her addiction. I stopped enabling her and she moved in with my parents--just for a "month to get back on her feet"--that month turned in to 1.5 years because my parents would not stop enabling her. She didn't have to pay rent, pay for food, etc., and they drove her everywhere, took care of everything, etc. So she continued to drink, lost jobs, and drank...and drank. Never went to treatment for that entire time and then decided to move back to the state I live in (my parents live out of state); she was here for five weeks and then got evicted for problems related to her drinking; she wanted to move in with me and I refused. She is now living in a hostel and going to treatment every day. She is mad at me for it, but I believe that if I had interfered again, she would not be in treatment now....honestly I don't know what will become of this latest attempt at getting sober; but I DO know that I am allowing her to be responsible for her actions, and only that will save her in the end.

So...I'm writing all this to let you know what my situation has been and to tell you that I can relate to your feelings completely...it is so hard to imagine someone that we love living on the streets...but I can tell you that nothing good has ever come out of me "helping" my sister--the $ I "lent" her just went to her vodka supply; the times I called her work for her or drove her to the hospital or told her it was okay if she needed a few days off to rest turned into more reasons for her to continue along her destructive path.

I, too, have read Addict in the Family by Beverly Conyers, which is an excellent book...it really puts things in perspective.

Keep posting and begin setting boundaries...when it comes down to it, he is an adult. If he weren't your brother, how would you feel?

Hugs
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:08 AM
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Same boat!!

Hi there, i registered purely to see if i could help as i am going through the same situation with my brother.

After reading replies to your cry for help i felt i should join to let you know what i have done for my brother.......basically he lost his job too after blacking out and not making it back to work, he ended up in hospital i only know this as he couldnt and i spotted the ECG tabs on his body and had to give a taxi driver his love his guitar as payment, i begged for his job back and they gave him one more try.....and failed he locked himself in the toilet at work all afternoon drinking and was slurring etc, so they had enough and sacked him, now as he is a relative i cannot get housing benefit for him....he has luckily secured a job for this monday but as i pointed out if he goes in smelling of drink and slurring he will be sacked from new job!!! told him i cant afford to fund him as i have a big mortgage and can hardly pay my bills mortgage and food let alone him, soooo...asically said to him while under my roof you get help from doctors, made him an appointment, got him down there, went in with him, they have now got him into a support group for assessment but this is 5 days away (2 days after he starts new job)

I told him if he messes up this new job he will be homeless and i have to be tough on this, i have told him i will support him but he has to want to try and he is, he is so desperate to change and has now not drank for 2 days, and is now experiencing the DTs.....doctor has NOW given him some meds to ease the dangerous symptoms of withdrawal and i have to administer these drugs.....basically he has nothing to sell now to get next drink neither can he steal off me as i have locked everything away, and he knows that this is it now .......if your brother will not abide by your rules whilst under your roof then get him out, either tell him that he needs to seek help and go with him even if it means you have to do the leg work because i know how u feel, u dont want to see him on streets but ifyou give him these rules and is willing to do what it taes then you can help him, if he doesnt make an effort and go to doctors and join a group and try then you can do no more and it will be worse for you and your family stress wise, i hope this helps
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:00 AM
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Hi,

I understand how you feel. I had the same thing with my husband. He is an alcoholic and all the same conditions apply..including child support...including no job (and now filing for social security). I had the same fear about kicking him out with no family, no friends, no money, no job...just his tiny car. He cried, begged, and pleaded, but never did anything to recover. I kept the home running.

I finally could not do it anymore...emotionally and financially...I was becoming an old woman before my time and my entire life was suffering because of it. I hated going to my own home. See some of my posts...it was like the exact same thing.

There are shelters. There are food banks...there are churches....there is recovery (and a network of great people in recovery who would give the shirt off their back to help someone who is serious about cleaning up). If he can find people to drink with at the bars, he can find the people to get sober with. My AH is alive and kicking...he found a way not to be on the street.

Please. Go to Al-anon. Read the posts from those who have found recovery. Eventually you will get stronger and get to a better place. You will also allow him to perhaps hit bottom and realize he needs help. If you read some of the posts from recovering alcoholics, they ALWAYS say the best thing that happened to them was being turned out by family and friends. It led them to a better, sober place and they now have REAL happiness.

Blessings.
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:23 AM
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Hi VTSister,

I went through something similar only it was with my oldest son who is 30. He HAD a job at a manufacturing plant, paid weekly, benefits, made several dollars an hour above minimum wage and got two weeks paid vacation a year and had weekends off. My Son barely graduated high school (has ADD) so the job was a good fit for him. The only downside in my son's opinion was the time he had to be at work. (7:00 a.m.) He says he's not a morning person.

Anyway the plant he worked at has a point system that is used to track attendance. I work at the same place except I do payroll and I am the one that gives or takes away points based on company policy.

Based on policy if you are late - that is 1 point, if you are more then 15 minutes late that is 2 points, if you call out that is 4 points, however if you go two weeks without any attendance issues 1 point is subtracted. If you get 16 points you are given a written notice, if you get 26 points you are given a second notice, if you get 30 points you get a 3 day suspension and at 36 points you are terminated. Every employee knows what their points are because it is on their check.

When my sons points were getting rather high, I suggested he stay with me during the week (he has his own place) and he could ride to work with me and that way he would get to work on time. He did this for a while and decided he could get up on his own so he returned to his own place. We repeated this cycle several times over the last year.
Every time he returned home he would go a few days and manage to get up for work then he'd wind up being late for work and his points would go up again.

The last time he stayed with me I told him he could stay as long as he wanted however once he returned home that would be the last time because I was not having a swinging door policy for him.

As you may have guessed he returned home and his points would up reaching termination level. In addition he was behind on his rent and wound up getting evicted. I am the only family my son has other then a younger brother.

The guilt was eating me alive but I knew I could not allow my son to stay with me anymore. He is never going to learn to take on responsibilities and grow up as long as I was enabling him.

For now my son has a friend that is letting him stay with him until my son can get on his feet. I made the choice to have little contact with my son until I know I am strong enough to not give in and allow him to move in with me.

Do what you need to do in order to allow your brother to have the opportunity to learn to stand on his own two feet.
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:29 AM
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Your first post could have been written by me, that was my ex alcoholic boyfriend to a tee. He was always getting underpaid for one reason or another, constantly loosing his job, couldn't get full time work only agency stuff which was temporary. He would sit at home all day, using up the electric, food, making a mess, inviting his other drinking bums over. I would be at work all day and come home to find the house a complete pig sty, empty cans around, smelling of pot.

He would also always have money for beers, money for his tobacco and pot. When we were so poor, I was walking to work, no electric and getting food parcels from my parents, he would dissappear and come home with smokes, drunk so much he couldn't stand up, but it was always his ''friend'' who paid apparently.

He drove me to the ground financially, I am still repaying the debts. The truth of the matter though is that it only happened because I allowed it to. I allowed him to stay in the house, with no money coming in, using me and our home. I allowed him to manipulate me, and I deceived and lied to myself so much that thingscould get better, that he was trying; that my whole perception of what reality actually was for me was distorted.

When I came to SR, I was still thinking that way. After posting here for 5 months, reading Melody Beattie and other recovery material, and doing some hard work on my issues, my fears, my need to control, I was ready to throw him out.

He is now doing the same thing to his father as what he done to me, and his father is, so far, also allowing this to continue. He will continue drinking until he uses up all his favours, until people stop allowing him to use them, until he has no where to go and no one to go to.

Have a read of the stickies and a very big welcome to SR!

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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