I'm so hesitant to post this...
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Originally Posted by NoelleR 
"...From what I have read, seen (with several alcoholics in my family and my current xabf), and been told by two therapist, alcoholics "tend" to be selfish people. I've yet to find one that isn't. Could it be an over generalization? Maybe, but prejudice, not at all..."
"...Yep, my therapist told me the exact same thing..."
Ah, well, if a therapist says it, it must be true.....lol.
....and NYC_Chick...."...Also - I think this board is meant to be a place that is safe to be who you are without someone correcting what it is you are doing wrong, like you correcting anvil's statement. I think we've all had enough "corrections" by others in out lifetime. Why do you care how anyone says anything on here?..." ----- lighten up.....it was just a joke...and besides, it was NOT meant as correction, but as informative/educational.....lolol
NoelleR
"...Yep, my therapist told me the exact same thing..."
Ah, well, if a therapist says it, it must be true.....lol.
....and NYC_Chick...."...Also - I think this board is meant to be a place that is safe to be who you are without someone correcting what it is you are doing wrong, like you correcting anvil's statement. I think we've all had enough "corrections" by others in out lifetime. Why do you care how anyone says anything on here?..." ----- lighten up.....it was just a joke...and besides, it was NOT meant as correction, but as informative/educational.....lolol
NoelleR
Good luck in your recovery!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by steve11694
I do know that for me if there was a possibility that a relationship with a woman had a chance of harming my relationship with my daughter, I'd say good by to the woman. My daughter will always be my daughter. I have learned women come and go.
As it should be IMO.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
(((DMPA)))
I hope you will find what you are looking for. The way your relationship started is how his next relationship may also start. With you being the wife and maybe a kid or 2 and him drinking and wanting someone who is sympathetic or sexy or whatever excuse he needs.
I think if he was really in recovery that he would want to give himself, you, and his family a little time to get adjusted instead of creating all this drama.
I hope you will find what you are looking for. The way your relationship started is how his next relationship may also start. With you being the wife and maybe a kid or 2 and him drinking and wanting someone who is sympathetic or sexy or whatever excuse he needs.
I think if he was really in recovery that he would want to give himself, you, and his family a little time to get adjusted instead of creating all this drama.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 141
Painfully, I have learned that a good measure of the qualities of a person is how they treat children, especially their own. That a man would be willing to sacrifice his relationship with his kids for a relationship with me would mean that he had zero chance of being in such a relationship with me.
I was the OW for a while - I was naive and also bought into the lies surrounding their separation. I confess to naming his wife "The Witch" for a time and felt justified because I felt she was stalking me and stealing my things from his place (she used to live there and may still have had a key.) She despised me and we had some fairly heated exchanges, in person on the phone and by mail. With hindsight, I can fully understand her reaction and am planning on making amends in the near future. And I agree with FD, my ex must have loved it that two women were fighting over him. I think we both now realise that he was no prize.
I was the OW for a while - I was naive and also bought into the lies surrounding their separation. I confess to naming his wife "The Witch" for a time and felt justified because I felt she was stalking me and stealing my things from his place (she used to live there and may still have had a key.) She despised me and we had some fairly heated exchanges, in person on the phone and by mail. With hindsight, I can fully understand her reaction and am planning on making amends in the near future. And I agree with FD, my ex must have loved it that two women were fighting over him. I think we both now realise that he was no prize.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26
I think it is almost impossible to comment on this very complicated situation because none of us know all the facts. It seems that the exwife is a very angry person who has the potential to be verbally and physically abusive. Perhaps the alcoholic boyfriend was trying to find a way out of the marriage even before cheating on his wife. (I'm not sure labeling him a serial cheater is warranted.) If that's the case, the exwife would probably be furious no matter how he tried to exit the relationship. I also find it interesting that he found sobriety after he left his wife. As many of you know, the spouse can be sicker than the louse in an alcoholic relationship. (This is not an excuse for his behavior, just a different perspective.)
That said, when we willingly step into bad situations, we have to be willing to accept the consequences. Carrying on a relationship with a man who has upset children, an angry ex and family can be overwhelming. Regardless of what you decide to do, I suggest that you take your focus off of your bf and his problems and focus on yourself. Good luck.
That said, when we willingly step into bad situations, we have to be willing to accept the consequences. Carrying on a relationship with a man who has upset children, an angry ex and family can be overwhelming. Regardless of what you decide to do, I suggest that you take your focus off of your bf and his problems and focus on yourself. Good luck.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: smalltown, MS
Posts: 40
"That said, when we willingly step into bad situations, we have to be willing to accept the consequences. Carrying on a relationship with a man who has upset children, an angry ex and family can be overwhelming. Regardless of what you decide to do, I suggest that you take your focus off of your bf and his problems and focus on yourself. Good luck."
Thank you so much...and I really think that's the reason I'm here.
Thank you so much...and I really think that's the reason I'm here.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,622
In AA, we highly recommend no new relationships for two years and if he is working his steps, he has some serious step nine work to do if he wants to stay sober. Part of that will be not causing more pain to the people in his life he has harmed.
If he has good recovery, leave him to work on it. Watch. Wait. Give him space to make his amends and be patient. He is not proud of what he has done and harsh as it may be to face, he does not want to be seen with you for fear of causing more damage. For me, that shows he is indeed making some progress. I would be worried if you told me he didn't care about the effect of being seen with you on his family. I would say 100% he would drink again if he was doing that.
Now - to you. Are you ok with that? Do you need social acceptance right away? Can you go along with a plan to not cause further harm? If you cannot accept being kept waiting, that is very understandable and I for one would cheer you on. But these things are never straightforward. If you love him and you want to be with him, back right off. Allow him time to clear the wrekcage without causing more pain to a woman and children who didn't deserve it.
If he has good recovery, leave him to work on it. Watch. Wait. Give him space to make his amends and be patient. He is not proud of what he has done and harsh as it may be to face, he does not want to be seen with you for fear of causing more damage. For me, that shows he is indeed making some progress. I would be worried if you told me he didn't care about the effect of being seen with you on his family. I would say 100% he would drink again if he was doing that.
Now - to you. Are you ok with that? Do you need social acceptance right away? Can you go along with a plan to not cause further harm? If you cannot accept being kept waiting, that is very understandable and I for one would cheer you on. But these things are never straightforward. If you love him and you want to be with him, back right off. Allow him time to clear the wrekcage without causing more pain to a woman and children who didn't deserve it.
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 141
That's a very charitable way of looking at the situation Pilgrim. Perhaps it was just my own projection that led me to see the situation as more akin to avoiding confrontation, responsibility and commitment (to/with DMPA, his ex and his kids).
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
My two cents?
The last 21 years of being around the halls of AA, the last 9 years working an Alanon program also, I have yet to see a relationship that started out as yours did that did not end in disaster.
Maybe your bf's unique, but it's been my experience that if he cheated on his wife, he'll cheat on you too.
He's got a lot of baggage right now, and I hope you have plenty of space to take it into the living room of your life if you choose to stay with him.
I was engaged to a man who went straight from a dysfunctional marriage in FL to my house in the midwest. I rationalized that it was perfectly okay, that obviously he was a good man as he had stayed 15 years in the marriage because of his children.
The red flags were right in front of me before he ever moved in, yet I chose not to see them. I wanted my knight in shining armor.
He was Prince Charming for 15 months, and put a ring on my finger.
When his two girls came to stay for a month, I watched him do a 180 degree turnaround.
His baggage finally caught up with him. All the unresolved issues from his marriage finally got puked up for him emotionally when his children were actually in our home.
He walked out after his girls were gone, my bank account was drained, and that's when I got dead serious about working a fearless Alanon program and find out why I continued to make poor choices in relationships.
I was nothing more than a temporary 'oasis' in the chaos of his life, and once the real issues started coming to the surface with the arrival of his own children, he couldn't deal with it and left.
Two weeks later I started getting foul threatening calls from some drunken woman to leave 'him' alone, and had to get my phone number changed. I had not seen him, and had no idea where he was.
Turns out he had hooked up with her before he ever left me.
Sorry, but I can't see a happy ending for the situation that you are in.
The last 21 years of being around the halls of AA, the last 9 years working an Alanon program also, I have yet to see a relationship that started out as yours did that did not end in disaster.
Maybe your bf's unique, but it's been my experience that if he cheated on his wife, he'll cheat on you too.
He's got a lot of baggage right now, and I hope you have plenty of space to take it into the living room of your life if you choose to stay with him.
I was engaged to a man who went straight from a dysfunctional marriage in FL to my house in the midwest. I rationalized that it was perfectly okay, that obviously he was a good man as he had stayed 15 years in the marriage because of his children.
The red flags were right in front of me before he ever moved in, yet I chose not to see them. I wanted my knight in shining armor.
He was Prince Charming for 15 months, and put a ring on my finger.
When his two girls came to stay for a month, I watched him do a 180 degree turnaround.
His baggage finally caught up with him. All the unresolved issues from his marriage finally got puked up for him emotionally when his children were actually in our home.
He walked out after his girls were gone, my bank account was drained, and that's when I got dead serious about working a fearless Alanon program and find out why I continued to make poor choices in relationships.
I was nothing more than a temporary 'oasis' in the chaos of his life, and once the real issues started coming to the surface with the arrival of his own children, he couldn't deal with it and left.
Two weeks later I started getting foul threatening calls from some drunken woman to leave 'him' alone, and had to get my phone number changed. I had not seen him, and had no idea where he was.
Turns out he had hooked up with her before he ever left me.
Sorry, but I can't see a happy ending for the situation that you are in.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: OHIO
Posts: 959
Well DMPA you will do what you will. I am glad to know that he hasn't had a drink in a year but in reality that is not much time under his belt but it's better than none. I am also like alot of others here and have felt the sting of betrayal and abandonment from their wayward alcoholic spouses. If you don't have self respect then no one can give it to you sweetie you will just have to learn the hard way. Life will give you that. You mentioned that you told his wife that you never pursued her husband. That was not true. By allowing him to even knock on your door you have pursued him !!! Don't you see that??? I don't mean to flame you too hard but I have to to some degree or I wouldn't be who I am. One day you will reflect on what your actions have done to this family and you will shudder from the shame of it all. And because you yourself are not alcoholic......you can't even blame it on booze. This is a sad sad sad situation. I invite you to go to the website: SurvivingInfidelity.com I want you to see the damage that the two of you have caused.
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 378
DMPA,
you already know I was involved in a situation almost exactly like yours. The kind of relationship you describe is pretty much where I was in mine with XABF when I decided to end it once and for all. At that point we were "secret". I didn't tell my friends we were seeing each other (because they all hated him as he was still drinking and was a cheater). he longer brought me around his family, I couldn't be introduced to his children for fear they'd tell his ex-wife, we no longer lived together and rarely went out in public unless it was to a bar or a restaurant where his ex-wife obviously wasn't going to show up. I still enjoyed his company, we laughed and talked every night too. But I'll tell you I was very lonely and sad on holidays, even times like the 4th of July when he'd go to his ex-wifes to spend time with his children. yes it was true he was divorced at that point but forever I wold remain "the other woman". He suffered, or so he said, from tremendous guilt. We'd hardly ever be intimate unless he sensed i was restless and ready to leave him.
well I can't tell you what will happen wiht you. I can tell you you do deserve a normal happy relationship with an available man.
and let me give you these words that stuck with me through my whole relationship with xabf.
"Nothing can be right so long as it is wrong"
that quote comes from the book "power of positive thinking". I am not sure if it's a bible passage, but it really echoed in my mind often during the affair i had. I can now look back and see that it was never ever going to be "right". Nothing we could do would ever make it right. His ex was never going to forgive us, nor do I think I would ever forgive myself. I don't know about him, but I'd guess that what he did doesn't exactly make him feel like a great person.
i would advise you to really thinking about what you want out of life. Is this the kind of relationship you want? and if the answer is no I'd seriously start thinking about moving on. It's not easy. I know in some weird way I felt obligated to stick by my XABF after going through all that with him. I mean I felt 50% responsible for tearing his family apart. Why would I abandon him after all that? But eventually our relationship degraded so far, there was no hope left. He was so obviously not interested in having an open relationship.
I am still left here wounded and bewildered as to why i even got into a relationship like that! And that is just another reason I need therapy.
I also recently had a talk with a man who put it to me so simply.
"you know he was feeling like a real stud, having two women fight over him?...he never intended to marry you, you know that right?"
and when he said that it just shocked me a little. because I guess it took me 3 agonizing years to realize that was never going to happen and this guy in one hour of explaining my story hit it on the head.
I hope some of this helps. I know it's really hard. But a life with someone that doest really want you completely in it is not a real commitment. And if tht is what you really want then maybe he's not the one to give it to you.
you already know I was involved in a situation almost exactly like yours. The kind of relationship you describe is pretty much where I was in mine with XABF when I decided to end it once and for all. At that point we were "secret". I didn't tell my friends we were seeing each other (because they all hated him as he was still drinking and was a cheater). he longer brought me around his family, I couldn't be introduced to his children for fear they'd tell his ex-wife, we no longer lived together and rarely went out in public unless it was to a bar or a restaurant where his ex-wife obviously wasn't going to show up. I still enjoyed his company, we laughed and talked every night too. But I'll tell you I was very lonely and sad on holidays, even times like the 4th of July when he'd go to his ex-wifes to spend time with his children. yes it was true he was divorced at that point but forever I wold remain "the other woman". He suffered, or so he said, from tremendous guilt. We'd hardly ever be intimate unless he sensed i was restless and ready to leave him.
well I can't tell you what will happen wiht you. I can tell you you do deserve a normal happy relationship with an available man.
and let me give you these words that stuck with me through my whole relationship with xabf.
"Nothing can be right so long as it is wrong"
that quote comes from the book "power of positive thinking". I am not sure if it's a bible passage, but it really echoed in my mind often during the affair i had. I can now look back and see that it was never ever going to be "right". Nothing we could do would ever make it right. His ex was never going to forgive us, nor do I think I would ever forgive myself. I don't know about him, but I'd guess that what he did doesn't exactly make him feel like a great person.
i would advise you to really thinking about what you want out of life. Is this the kind of relationship you want? and if the answer is no I'd seriously start thinking about moving on. It's not easy. I know in some weird way I felt obligated to stick by my XABF after going through all that with him. I mean I felt 50% responsible for tearing his family apart. Why would I abandon him after all that? But eventually our relationship degraded so far, there was no hope left. He was so obviously not interested in having an open relationship.
I am still left here wounded and bewildered as to why i even got into a relationship like that! And that is just another reason I need therapy.
I also recently had a talk with a man who put it to me so simply.
"you know he was feeling like a real stud, having two women fight over him?...he never intended to marry you, you know that right?"
and when he said that it just shocked me a little. because I guess it took me 3 agonizing years to realize that was never going to happen and this guy in one hour of explaining my story hit it on the head.
I hope some of this helps. I know it's really hard. But a life with someone that doest really want you completely in it is not a real commitment. And if tht is what you really want then maybe he's not the one to give it to you.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
How about feeling like a stud and having three women fight over him? That's exactly what my ex-AB did, much to my dismay.
After his stroke, my boyfriend spent time in a rehab facility learning how to shower, dress, walk, and talk again. During that time, I was not the only one who visited him regularly (if you recall I was his current girlfriend at the time--and had been so for 24 years). His ex-wife from years before we met visited him on occassion as did the mother of his 30+ year-old son.
It was the first time I'd ever met these two women and I wasn't thrilled that they were in the picture, though I realize that at one time he was an important part of their lives.
Anyway, one afternoon I arrived to find Richard in a particularly good mood. It seems all three of us had showed up--at different times--throughout the day, prompting the patient across the hall to ask "so which woman is yours?" Richard took great delight in telling me he responded "all of them." Needless to say, that didn't go over very well with me. But it helped me open my eyes. I was not nearly as important to Richard as I had believed I was. I was simply another notch in his belt.
I stopped visiting him in the nursing home that day. I stopped driving him to his doctor's appointments. I stopped bending over backwards for a man who apparently thought very little of me. I let his "other two women" take on those responsibilities and, not surprisingly, they both rose to the occassion.
I was only special in Richard's eyes when it was convenient for him, meaning when I could do something for him. I was giving myself body, mind, heart, and soul to a man who cared very little about me or my feelings.
Eventually, my anger over his callous remark turned to anger towards myself for caring so little about myself that I accepted this type of treatment from a man who claimed he loved me.
Any man who comes knocking at your door when he is still in a relationship with another woman--rocky or not--cares very little for his current partner and very little for you.
After his stroke, my boyfriend spent time in a rehab facility learning how to shower, dress, walk, and talk again. During that time, I was not the only one who visited him regularly (if you recall I was his current girlfriend at the time--and had been so for 24 years). His ex-wife from years before we met visited him on occassion as did the mother of his 30+ year-old son.
It was the first time I'd ever met these two women and I wasn't thrilled that they were in the picture, though I realize that at one time he was an important part of their lives.
Anyway, one afternoon I arrived to find Richard in a particularly good mood. It seems all three of us had showed up--at different times--throughout the day, prompting the patient across the hall to ask "so which woman is yours?" Richard took great delight in telling me he responded "all of them." Needless to say, that didn't go over very well with me. But it helped me open my eyes. I was not nearly as important to Richard as I had believed I was. I was simply another notch in his belt.
I stopped visiting him in the nursing home that day. I stopped driving him to his doctor's appointments. I stopped bending over backwards for a man who apparently thought very little of me. I let his "other two women" take on those responsibilities and, not surprisingly, they both rose to the occassion.
I was only special in Richard's eyes when it was convenient for him, meaning when I could do something for him. I was giving myself body, mind, heart, and soul to a man who cared very little about me or my feelings.
Eventually, my anger over his callous remark turned to anger towards myself for caring so little about myself that I accepted this type of treatment from a man who claimed he loved me.
Any man who comes knocking at your door when he is still in a relationship with another woman--rocky or not--cares very little for his current partner and very little for you.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by FormerDoormat
Any man who comes knocking at your door when he is still in a relationship with another woman--rocky or not--cares very little for his current partner and very little for you.
My statements are not meant to condemn anyone who has gotten involved with someone who is already involved. Everyone has their own point of view and their own standards. Mine do not necessarily fit anyone else.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by good_luck
I believe that I will "flame" this. Life, marriage, relationships, etc. are hard enough. You walked into a complicated situation willfully. You are surprised that the situation remains complicated?
Better luck next time. Make better choices. Try to hurt fewer people, too.
If someone told me that they had to choose between a relationship with me or their children, it would be obvious what I should do. Get some perspective. Love ends sometimes, and I honestly doubt that there is a better reason for it to end than that.
Better luck next time. Make better choices. Try to hurt fewer people, too.
If someone told me that they had to choose between a relationship with me or their children, it would be obvious what I should do. Get some perspective. Love ends sometimes, and I honestly doubt that there is a better reason for it to end than that.
we all leave a path of devastation behind us... we cannot say our sh*t don't stink. to make amends may mean this relationship has no future... what is of more importance now is to clear the wreakage for the person, the relationship and those who are affected.... on many levels this can take a a long time and alot of effort.
if this relationship has the strenght and love in the individual to see addiction recovery thru and all the woes that proceed it without any codependancy... the true establishment of ones self within unity.
surely anyone would agree this would be more healthy than being the next devorce statistic...
deep breath... be true to urself one day at a time.... in words of shakespear, to thine own self be true... as the saying goes if u can't be true to urself u can't be honest to any other man.... what we have here is two people who have to be 'true' to themselves before they can settle for good.
good luck hope this broadens the black n white of ur opinion.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
Again, the main question to ask yourself is why you don't believe you deserve someone with more integrity. Simple as that.
L
if their in recovery different story...
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Conez
if ur unfortunate enuff to hook up with an alki or addict (which using is usually hidden in honeymoon periods) not sure u find much integrity....
if their in recovery different story...
if their in recovery different story...
So, why didn't I think I was worthy of a partner with integrity? That, my friends, is the $64,000 question........................
L
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
I was "unfortunate" enough to hook up with an alcoholic for twenty years. That is why I pointed out the question. It didn't just "happen." There were reasons I ended up in the relationship I did, and very few of them had to do with him.
So, why didn't I think I was worthy of a partner with integrity? That, my friends, is the $64,000 question........................
L
So, why didn't I think I was worthy of a partner with integrity? That, my friends, is the $64,000 question........................
L
now if i get the answer right... i can take the money and split? lol
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: smalltown, MS
Posts: 40
Just wanted to tell you all thanks for responding... this place has been a blessing for me, finally a place to share-meaning giving and taking of thoughts, ideas, information. I really do appreciate your responses.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 378
DMPA,
I know some of these posts probably do seem harsh. I remember when I first posted on this board as the girlfriend of a married alcoholic. Most people were telling me the same things that have been brought up here and a healthy dose of blame on my part.
In hindsight it's so much easier to see all points of view. And understand them.
You're at the stage I was in. You're in love and you feel justified in that. Especially now that he's divorced. I know for me I was constantly wishing and praying that my mm's wife would just hate him and be done with him, move on and find someone she could be happy with. I saw myself as someone who cared deeply for him and I wanted to rescue him from her wrath. He told me I was his soul mate. He'd tell me how incompatible his wife was. She too verbally attacked me a few times, she cut through a screen in my house, she physically attacked her husband on my doorstep while I hid in the bathroom. She called the cops on him. She tried to take his kids away completely from him. and me... I lived in constant fear that she'd show up at work (her husband worked there too). I remember having a strong dislike for her, as according to him she mostly blamed me. Because of her seemingly irrational behavior I felt even more deserving of a happy relationship with him.
In retrospect I can see that she was the one justified in her reaction. I can put myself in her place and see just how much pain that caused her. I'm pretty sure I'd have reacted the same way. Especially having a taste of what it's like to live with an alcoholic, she had to have been through so much already. I only hope and pray that she is better off today for not being married to him. She has her own house now, a good job and 2 beautiful boys. I'm no longer in the picture and maybe there is a chance for recovery in their lives.
And for me, I have to say I feel so much better being out of that chaos. I hope to redeem myself.
I know some of these posts probably do seem harsh. I remember when I first posted on this board as the girlfriend of a married alcoholic. Most people were telling me the same things that have been brought up here and a healthy dose of blame on my part.
In hindsight it's so much easier to see all points of view. And understand them.
You're at the stage I was in. You're in love and you feel justified in that. Especially now that he's divorced. I know for me I was constantly wishing and praying that my mm's wife would just hate him and be done with him, move on and find someone she could be happy with. I saw myself as someone who cared deeply for him and I wanted to rescue him from her wrath. He told me I was his soul mate. He'd tell me how incompatible his wife was. She too verbally attacked me a few times, she cut through a screen in my house, she physically attacked her husband on my doorstep while I hid in the bathroom. She called the cops on him. She tried to take his kids away completely from him. and me... I lived in constant fear that she'd show up at work (her husband worked there too). I remember having a strong dislike for her, as according to him she mostly blamed me. Because of her seemingly irrational behavior I felt even more deserving of a happy relationship with him.
In retrospect I can see that she was the one justified in her reaction. I can put myself in her place and see just how much pain that caused her. I'm pretty sure I'd have reacted the same way. Especially having a taste of what it's like to live with an alcoholic, she had to have been through so much already. I only hope and pray that she is better off today for not being married to him. She has her own house now, a good job and 2 beautiful boys. I'm no longer in the picture and maybe there is a chance for recovery in their lives.
And for me, I have to say I feel so much better being out of that chaos. I hope to redeem myself.
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