Lilyflower

Where do I start? I ended my relationship with abf two weeks ago, I gave him a month to find somewhere to live. Since then I have struggled with my affections for him. At first it was easy to cut my emotions to him as he was still drinking, then he stopped, and all my feelings were confused. My daughter was very ill and hospitalised for a week and he was there for me and my daughter everyday, from first thing until the night. I found myself really wanting to give my relationship with him another shot. So I spoke to him about how I was feeling (mistake???). Anyway, I felt that he couldn't understand why I needed things to change, why I could no longer accept his sparodic sober periods and needed him to be sober for good.

A weekend has passed since I had this talk with him. On Monday I came home to find that he had done some housework, was making our meal and he told me he had been to an AA meeting. Unfortunately, he had also had a few beers with his ''friend'' afterward. I had originally asked him about a month ago to attend AA, counselling and get back on his meds. He did get back on his meds, changed his counsellor and is still waiting for an appointment, but never went to AA. Now it's like he is trying to fulfill my earlier requests as he doesn't want to lose me. Apparently he's been again today to a step meeting. I asked him if he was doing this for himself or me, to which he said, both. So I told him that going to AA and then getting drunk is not what I want from him. I told him I cannot deal with him when he is drinking and that he has to stay sober.

So anyway, I decide to share with my mum. We've been close recently and has given me some great advice so I wasn't worried about her codie-ness. She started shouting and swearing down the telephone at me. I asked her to not swear to which she began a tyrade about how I swear in her face all the time, which I have in the past but not for a long time. She was really upset crying and saying that I am falling back into his trap and that he is feeding me what I want to hear and she is scared that I will be in the same place as now in a years time. She told me that he could be lieing about going to meetings and I should say I want to go with him or ask to see some sort of attendance card. Then she asked me about a ring she had bought for me a few years ago. I haven't been able to find it and have confronted him and asked if he has pawned it and he swears he hasn't and helped me look for it. My mum is convinced he has had it and said that he is a thief and she doesn't want him sitting at her dinner table and she can't believe I am putting him as my No 1. priority ahead of my daughter.

I am in shock. Firstly that my mum can think that I am being hoodwinked into getting back together with xabf, when I know that I am not. I have told him what I need to SEE happening. I haven't mentioned getting back with him, also I am not stupid, yesterday was his first meeting and he drank after it! Also I know that I tend to put rose tinted glasses on most of the time, but I cannot understand how my mum can be so twisted in her thoughts about other people, thinking the worst of him that he is a liar a thief etc when she has no proof either way. She has upset me more than xabf's recent attempts at keeping me. Its so frustrating, she told me that my ''friends on line'' always agree with her, and that I should talk to you and you will all tell me that I shouldn't believe anything he says.

Am I being too soft here? Is my mum right, in the lack of evidence proving him innocent should I suppose him guilty of taking my ring? I just think, even if he did porn it, I cannot do anything about it now, so whats the point in getting angry or holding a grudge? Besides I have asked him and I saw a person who really didn't know where it had gone to. So unless I have gone completely soft and I am being blinded by him, I don't think he took it. Also if he says he's going to AA why should I not believe him? Aren't I just being controlling and mothering him if I want to check up on his attendence there?

Sometimes I hate speaking to my mother.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

LaTeeDa

I agree with your mom. Don't believe anything he says. Believe what he does.

L

Lilyflower

I agree, I know he is drinking, I see it. I don't have to witness him doing it to know, I can see it in his face and his behaviour as soon aas I walk through the door, which is why I said that I don't think I'm being fooled. I have NOT started up my relationship with him again, and he is still moving out in two weeks time. As I said, I'm not stupid enough to think that two meetings has changed him. I can see his attempt is weak, I'm still glad he is trying though, it may just get through to him.

I don't deny that she has a point, he is attempting to do whatever he can to stay with me, who can blame him, I'm a wonderful person! She didn't use ''words'' she yelled at me and tried using emotional blackmail against me to see her point, she completely misconstrued my point and assumed (as I feel you have?) that I have forgiven him all his wrongs and am taking him back arms wide open, which I am not! I understand that you are not aware of what my mum is like, believe me, she is very capable of throwing her emotional, verbal abuse, victimhood and manipulator role around. I am trying to move away from this. Just seems that she cannot see or appreciate it and keeps turning on me when she doesn't see my point. She thinks I just talk to her because I want her to agree with me, which I don't and I have told her so time and time again. I would like to have an adult conversation with her without her becoming judgemental, verbally abusive and emotionally unstable. The problem is that whenever she does this to me, I question myself even when I know what I am thinking deep down, I know what I am doing and where I am heading for. I know what behaviour I accept and no longer accept. She makes me feel like a stupid child who doesn't know what the hell I'm doing. She automatically thinks I will head down the road of self destruction and become a blubbering wreck who she has to rescue again.

I don't need rescuing, I am not heading down that road again, and I am insulted that she can throw away all the progress I have made in the last 5 or 6 months based on one conversation about how my xabf is trying to win me back by attending AA, and then drinking after it. I am also shocked at how she can throw her bitterness at people. Last week she was giving him hugs and telling him she hoped to see him soon, and this week she says he's a liar and a thief and she doesn't want to see him. She is going from one extreme to the other. I have thought often that he is easier to deal with than she is.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lilyflower

Thanks LTD, this is what I am trying to do. I am confused because she thinks he would lie about going to AA just to appease and keep me. I think that if I insist he proves his attendence to me then I am being a codie. I cannot attend a step meeting, they are closed meetings, so I cannot go with him. I think she wants me to take time off work and follow him to make sure he is going. I cannot do that, that's insane!

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

LaTeeDa

It doesn't matter whether he is going to AA or not. He is still drinking, right? That's the part you don't want to live with, right? What does it matter if he goes to AA or not?

L

cinderellawkids

Seeing you go through this hurts your mom and undoubtedly she's worried for you. Just as you are dealing the best you can, so is she. Sadly because its an emotional situation for her as well she reacted on her emotions

Live

There are many ways to say a thing and, I dissent a bit here, Mom's being a problem too.
I'c cut myself a break from being yelled at or demeaned. Respect rules...in every relationship.

Barbara52

So just what, if anything, has changed? Is he still moving out? Has he found a place? There is no need for you to verify his attendance. You know he is drinking yet. Maybe he stole from you, maybe not. It says something about what you think of him that you believe there is apossibility he stole from you. (Personally, that would be a deal breaker for me.)

What has changed for you? What do you want?

As for mom, hang up if she gets abusive. You don't have to take that from anyone.

Lilyflower

I guess it matters because I want him to find recovery. It matters because I told him I needed to SEE things changing instead of hearing the promises, and he has started DOING now. It matters because if he gets and stays sober, then there may be a chance for us further down the line. I guess you all think its too little too late?

Lily xxxxxxxxxxx

LaTeeDa

What exactly is he doing towards recovery. Going to AA and drinking afterward? What does that have to do with recovery? It's not too little too late, it's nothing too late. Maybe it's manipulation, but it isn't recovery. Why do you think it is recovery?

L

Barbara52

Ya know, I think we all want our As to find recovery. I know I pray daily my AH finds his way to recovery.

I guess I am confused. You say you broke up. But he is still living there so I don't quite know how that can be considered broke up yet. You say you need to see things changing and that things are yet you say he's still drinking. Isn't that the most important part of the change you want to see?

There may be a change for you to be together, now and in the future. Its up to you to decide what you want in your life. If him saying he is working on recovery while activiely drinking is progress in your eyes, great. If you want something else, something more, that seems better to me.

Load Warrior

He can attend counseling, attend AA meetings and lay golden eggs all day long and I wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole because he's still drinking!! He's taking the easy route trying to keep you. He's going to meetings, buttering you up, being a nice guy because he hopes you will allow him to stay. He's doing all the easy things hopeful you'll be willing to put up with his drinking. Drinking = bye bye. No ifs, ands, or buts. Distance yourself.

As for the ring, there's no way (short of seeing it in a pawn shop or finding it) that you'll ever know. Ignore it until you know something definite.

It sounds like your mom was a little rough. She probably heard your concern for him and got worked up and her emotions got out of control. She had good reason though... by your own admittance you are struggling with your affections for him.

Lilyflower

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to apologise if I was abit short yesterday, i didn't mean to offend anyone so I hope I didn't. This whole thing is cracking me up. I was so confused and upset at work and my sister gave me a drive home (we work in the same place) and we chatted, she agreed with you all that my mum was struggling with her own emotions and was afraid for me and that was why she was upset and yelling at me. I can understand that, I guess I just have trouble still not interacting with the chaos side of our relationship, perhaps I share too much with her. Thank you all for helping me see things straight. I was mixed up yesterday because I thought that if he does stop drinking and works on his recovery, should I rethink my position or not? I'm no longer confused about that though. My sister and i chatted and decided that even if he did spend the next few weeks sober and attending AA, that it would not mean a significant change. She advised, and I am following it, that he should still move out and keep working on himself.

I spoke to him last night, he told me he was going to try to stay sober and go to AA, and that he didn't want to leave. He was drunk again. It just opened my eyes up. I was confused and thinking that he was trying, when I looked at him I could see that he was not going to do it. He couldn't stay off the ale. I do think that him moving out will be better for me. about an hour after I told him this, he changed again, started calling me names and trashing me. This was like a slap with a wet fish, I started wondering why I ever thought he was changing in the first place. It was like his idea hadn't worked out for him and so he gave up the charade and went to Mr Jackyll again.

So we've split up already, living separate lives under the same roof, I'm just waiting for him to go. He did go and see one place, but I think he realised the standard of home he would get for his money as since then he has been playing these games with me. I don't really know if he has carried on searching, but I know thats not my problem. I gave him till the 31st March. My parents have already agreed to come over to support me when he goes as I think he will refuse to give me the keys back if I was on my own. I hope he will go calmly if they are there. I'm not looking forward to it. Last night I got a taste of how it could be if he decides to be nasty, it made me realise I should keep strong and see him go, but also made me anxious about how he goes.

Thanks again my friends,
Love
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

denny57

Good luck, Lily. Don't worry about getting the keys back - I'd suggest re-keying after he's gone. No idea if he's made copies of the old ones.

Take care of you and your daughter. ((( )))

FormerDoormat

Others can't make me feel like this, but I can. By the way, the healthier I get the more I'm able to see that my boyfriend lied to me about LOTS of things. LTD is right, actions speak louder than words.

GiveLove

Agreed here.

He is doing what alcoholics do -- manipulating you into feeling & acting the way HE wants you to. Sweet, supportive, loving, everything you ever thought you had before. Your mom can see that. If I were a mom, I would not be able to guarantee that I wouldn't get shrill too. When you're about to drive into a car wreck with someone, you don't WHISPER the words "watch out." She has no right, and that is true, but I would not be surprised. She cares about you, but is simply expressing it in a bad way.

I agree that you have every right to hang up if her behavior offends you. I only ask that you try to empathize with her at least as much as you're working to empathize with your abf.

Are you ready for the next stage of manipulation, btw? That will be the one where he WILL stop drinking (for a few days at least, or hide it extremely well) to get you to change your mind about forcing him to move out. Or he "won't be able to find a place" magically, so he'll have to stay longer. He'll become a great cook. He'll do everything you ask. He will make you fall in love with him all over again.

It's coming. It's what they all do. It's the unwritten rules of alcoholic manipulation: get what you need at any cost.

Mair

Hi Lily sorry your going through this, but it wont be long before he goes and you can start having a normal life with your daughter. Manipulation is a part of being an addict, dont be fooled, mine used to do all the time and i fell for it most of the time too, he desperately lied about having cancer knowing i would take pity and take care of him, which i did, more fool me.

I have a normal quiet life with my daughters now and it's heaven on earth.

mair xx

appleblaster

Hey Lily,
my affections for my xabf are what kept me going back to him. We would be apart for a while then I would see him and all of the feelings and attraction came flooding back, impairing my better judgment to stay away. He would be on his best behavior....but it didn't take long for his nasty behavior to come back. We did that over and over and over again. I know how you feel.

I had to stay away long enough to get over the affections and allow the reality of how he acted to set in. If you spend enough time around people who treat you well (and most of the population would treat you better than he has) then you will remember all the reasons why you deserve more than this.

Really, what I mentioned in the previous paragraph is so true Lily. Once I spent enough time away from him and around others, it strengthened me so much and allowed me to eventually forgive him for how he acted. I learned compassion without becoming entangled in his disease once again.

Have you ever made a list of dealbreakers?

FormerDoormat

I had forgotten about that (though I don't know how). That one really takes the cake. And it's a good illustration on the great lengths that alcoholics will go to manipulate their partners. Thanks for the reminder.

LaTeeDa

Maybe it would help to get clear on exactly what is acceptable (or, more importantly, unacceptable) to you. Someone asked if you had made a list of dealbreakers. If you are really clear about what you want/don't want, it will be more difficult for him to manipulate you.

Example: Do you have a problem with his drinking, or a problem with his not attending AA?

He seems to think that attending AA will appease you. And you seem to be leaning toward accepting that as some illusive indication of "progress."

As already pointed out, the manipulation will likely get more intense. If you are clear in your mind, you will be able to see it for what it is.

Sending you positive thoughts,
L