Ayers1995

Hello guys! You've helped me tons along the way.. so naturally this is the first place I turn. As most of you know, I have 3 boys..twins turning 10 and an 11 yo. They are pretty much out of control. I dont' know where to begin at turning this around. I received a note on Thursday from the daycare asking me to find a new facility for them. It said that they boys use foul language, teach it to the smaller kids..they bully the other kids, don't respect the daycare teachers...

First thing- language - How do you break them from saying ugly words?

Second thing - hitting - they are constantly attacking one another...with disregard to what I say - or spankings. There is nothing I can take away from the twins that they get concerned with.

Third thing - talking back - They talk back..mimic me and my mom.. do not mind AT ALL.

I need help! They can do whatever they want at their dads.. They watch what they want.. How do I begin. It's wearing me down!

LaTeeDa

Living with an alcoholic is very damaging for kids. If they are still visiting him and he is still drinking, the damage is ongoing. Parents splitting up is also very traumatic and children tend to blame themselves for the divorce. I would suggest counseling, both you and them together, and for them on their own. It sounds like they may have some feelings that have not been dealt with and are acting out because that is the only way they can feel powerful. Controlling them is not the answer, getting to the bottom of why they feel the need to "flex" their power is. It's likely they feel powerless over their own lives.

L

lexusgirl

Great advice LTD...My son's father is an alcoholic. I was having similiar issues with him as he was visiting his father every other weekend. I got him into counseling. I would suggest the same for your children.

Good luck!

Ayers1995

I agree that we all need counseling. It seems the boys are fine when they go see him. Apparently (according to him) they have no issues over there. It's of course, with me who has to lay down the rules and enforce them.

As for the XAH.. He's still drinking alot. To the point that he has lost some of his vision. As of last week... he went to the dr and his bp had become so high that he's lost some sight and may never get it back. I thought that his drinking may have lightened up.. (not having to deal with him on a daily basis).. but obviously not.

I know the kids are dealing with issues over the divorce. I think they've taken it very well. We are all set up for counseling... I just have had my hands so full that we've only been once.

LaTeeDa

Sounds like maybe it needs to be more of a priority. We all went once a week for over a year. It is one of the best things I ever did for myself. And I've seen some major changes in my children. I strongly encourage you to make the time.

L

Chrysalis123

Well, the behavior did not get like this in one day, so it will take time to turn this around (kind of like me as a codependent!)

This is going to be a lot of work for you because you need to learn different ways of parenting the kids and the kids might fight and resist the new you at first. Counseling is wonderful advice.

Consistency on your part is key. Maybe consider focusing on one behavior at first. The one that is most problematic. Think through how you want them to behave and set solid boundaries that are completely black and white to the kids. Since you said "taking away things" doesn't work well consider changing to a system that rewards good choices. The time frame for rewards will probably need to be fairly short to get the maximum gain. For instance reward every 15 minutes versus once at the end of the day. Like...if you can go 15 minutes without clobbering your sibling you get a sticker. Earn ___ stickers and you get to pick from this menu of prizes. Prizes can be free too. You could have things like earning TV time, special time with Mom, go somewhere like the park etc. Poor choices need to have a defined consequence too... time out, loss of priveledge but you want ot set it up so the rewards outweigh the negatives.

As for school and daycare maybe a reward system can be set up there as well. With a folder going back and forth between you and them describing how the day went. Time frames for positive behavior choices need to be short so the kids feel successful. Maybe every 30 minutes to 1 hour. Good choices at school turn into positive consequences at home. Poor choices at school turn into consequences at home.

Have you ever read "Parenting with Love and Logic" It is by Jim Fay and Foster Cline and has some great ideas too.

You can do this!

NYC_Chick

I have no parenting advice because I don't have kids, but I'm acoa so I know how difficult alcoholism can be on a child.

I found that I took things out on my mom because I was so scared of my father and couldn't confront him and the damage he caused. I remember being 13 or 14 and acting out a lot. My mom looked at me and said in a very calm voice "whatever you do you have to live with the consequences good or bad." While that's a lot to put on a kid, it worked and I straightened out. Maybe laying out their consequences will help. I also had a great guidance counselor at school who still keeps in contact with my mom to see how I'm doing. I know for me having someone who believed in me and thought I was worth something (besides my mom, of course) helped a lot.

:ghug

cmc

A good resource is How To Make Children Mind...without losing yours, by Dr Kevin Leman.

I find that my recovery reaches into all areas of my life. Dealing with children is no different because it requires healthy detachment of emotions, setting and enforcing boundaries plus learning to know when to let go and when not to.

Going to meetings gives me the strength and inspiration I need to do what I need to.

Barbara52

I agree that it seems to be time to give the counseling a higher priority than it has had in the past. This will not get better on its own.

Cyathea

I have found 3 books to be just amazing for me with my two sons.

Unconditional Parenting - Alfie Kohn

Parenting For a Peaceful World - Robin Grille

Kids Are Worth It - Barbara Coloroso

And I would also comment that spanking actually teaches children to hit, so using alternatives (see the above books) would be a great thing to try.

All the best, parenting is the hardest gig in the world.

BayAreaPhoenix

Not a parent either. And, while mother wasn't an addict - she was mentally disturbed. As an adult, looking back, the things I missed the most: Consistency, unconditional love, and boundaries (reasonable with set consequences). Also, when she did finally take me to a counselor, she never let me have any alone time with him to really talk openly about my issues (which were her of course).

I think counseling alone, and with her - maybe might have made a difference. But, because she had her own issues, I don't know about that - but you obviously aren't mentally disturbed, so that's a totally different ball-game. But, counseling together and indivually, IMO needs to be a priority.
(((hugs)))

Kindeyes

Consistent boundaries and counseling. Parenting is a really tough job.

gentle hugs

mazey

Ayers, you have obviously come so far! Glad for you. and ya know what? No danger anymore! Get them boys some outside counseling. They do still have issues and will have. It is only fact, since they still have all that behind them. Don't try to do it alone.
Agression is their defense. Naturally! You have good boys, you prolly just need to 'fine tune' them. Think about all they have endured! Hugs to you, and admiration for doing what you needed to a couple years ago! We were so worried for you all. You have come so far...hang in there. You and yours will be better. (You are just darling! Live well.)

mushroom

Not a parent either, but a former child, and an ACOA type background.

In our family, we had some pretty serious sibling rivalry going on, and not just jostling for position, but potentially dangerous stuff. I can't speak for my brothers, but on my part, it was due to feeling totally unsafe and untrusting in that dysfunctional, out of control family. No one cared what happened to me, and I was the scapegoat for everything that went wrong, so I had to lash out at my brothers in defense. I'm sure my brothers picked on me because they felt it would win them points with our mother, who despised me. And no one ever protected me from them so I had to fight back.

No, spankings and having things taken away did not work on me either. I was not going to be controlled by people who did not take good care of me and did not once ever show any love for me. I was going to keep control over myself as much as I possibly could, because everything else in that household was so out of control, and I was the designated victim, the one everyone picked on. I could not trust anyone but myself. I bet your boys are going through something somewhat similar. They need counseling individually. And unconditional love, and a mother they can trust cares about them and will take care of them.

It's going to be a hard battle, with the XAH pulling the other way, and the kids old enough to be set in their ways. Don't try to do it alone! Get professional help for their sakes.

I'd be willing to bet the boys are no better when they're with their dad. Possibly they're even worse. Sure, they have no issues over there! Yep, and I bet he hasn't been drinking at all either! (Consider the source!)

Laan

I'm also not a parent, but I worked at an aftercare & because I was one of the few ppl who had patience (well, more sympathy) for the difficult kids, all the bullies, biters, fighters and foulmouths were put in my aftercare...

There were two brothers in particular who were the worst (in a manner of speaking), but actually they were the sweetest kids you'd ever met! They had so much trouble at home - their dad used to drink - not so bad, but bad enough for a 8yo to notice something is off. The parents constantly fought (physically - so this is what they brought to us)

I immediately had a soft spot for them in my heart - and they knew this, but instead of using it as a weapon against me, they confided in me, trusted me. Because there was someone that deeply cared for them & showed it. I'm not saying their parents didn't care, just that they were so caught up in their own fights, or to "fix" the boys, that they rebelled. There was even a time where the mother was against me, because she felt I was stealing her boys...so not true.

Maybe I understood a bit better because I came out of a similar situation as the boys and could identify with it. Sure, the boys and I had our fall-outs! Once, the older brother was so out of control with rage that I had to drag him into the tuckshop and hold him in a tight hug for about 15 minutes (all the while he kicked and screamed with shouts that he hates me and everybody - swearing and spitting - even hitting me)

Eventually he calmed down and broke into heavy sobs. I felt so sorry for him. All he actually wanted was real love and not that look that they always got from others which said: "your bad". I'm not saying you are doing this, but from my experience, these kids are calling out for help - even if they don't know it. Counseling would be great for all of you!

Those two boys are the sweetest, most helpful and kind kids today. Only because they wanted a little love and attention - but, be careful - they need the right kind as they can easily abuse this and become worse. I was pretty lucky that these boys just needed patience to be themselves again...

I really do hope all the best for you all! Good luck!

WantsOut

When my son was young I found that demanding respect goes a long way. They want to mimic you and not listen to you? Well next time they need a ride/want a toy/want a friend to come over or go to their house/whatever the answer is "NO"! When they are shocked and ask why the answer is, "I don't do things for people who disrespect me!" Being firm about it is important. Making it clear that this is a new day and mom is not a doormat is important.

There need to be consequences and spanking isn't enough of a consequence in this situation - for whatever reason it's not working. The consequence needs to be something that is more serious to them like no tv or computer - and it needs to be for a period of time that is meaningful like three days or a week. It may be really hard to do but you need to stick to it even if things get crazy, even if you have to disconnect them and lock them in your trunk or put them at grandma's house. Whatever it takes they need to feel a consequence for what they've done. They will fight such restrictions with all of their might cause pushing limits is their job. Enforcing them is your job.

I'm not from the Ginghas Khan School of Parenting - I'm just a parent who is often horrified by the permissiveness I see in other parents and I just want to tell you that it's not just ok, it's VITAL, that you enforce the rules for them.

It's also important that they get positive attention. I was an exhausted single mother and I didn't always give him the attention he deserved when he was being a good boy, so sometimes he misbehaved to be the center of my world again.

Take this for what it is - just some suggestions. And good luck

angelfromheaven

Hi,
I have 2 kids, 14 and 12, recently my son has been lying to me and not showing that he got a few warnings from the teachers about not working well at school. His marks had gone down of course as a result.

I did not like the way that he was lying and did not do the effort and though after consulting with my DH, I announced 1 Month no TV, cellphone, PC and friends with the option to shorten it to 2 weeks if he does show efforts in working hard at school.

It worked and he seems to be back on track as he knows that it will happen again if he stops doing the efforts.

I am trying to make them accountable for their own life, believe that spanking is not the answer and I think one should take professional help when things get too bad or any form of trauma happens and be very strict in reinforcing boundaries with both parents doing the same (not sure you can have this). Obviously they need lots of love but very firm rules of "This is not ok, you can choose, either you stop this beahavour or if you choose to continue then this and that will happen" and then of course stick to it. I also try to show them that I love them and try to make them understand that I do not judge them but just let them not do the WRONG behaviour

Good luck!

Cyathea

Consensual Living is a great thing to look into

All the best.