Please remind me of the A manipulation
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 112
Please remind me of the A manipulation
I have met some real angels on this board. The posts have been so helpful to read and gain strength from. I have pm'd some wonderful helpers/sisters, etc.
Today, I need a big group hug and a dose of reassurance. I am done with this relationship, but sometimes the tornado that entered my life is difficult to get rid of in my heart. I clearly know the manipulative ways of the alcoholic, but today has been a tearful one.
Quick background: I am in my 40's, divorced with 3 kids. 2 year relationship with xabf. Took me a long time to realize he was an alcoholic. He had just gotten out of 28 day rehab when we met and I 'believed' he could drink moderately. Over time, I couldn't figure out why I could never please him. I'm independent and he used it to make it into one of my faults. He needed me to be so needy and when I wasn't...he tried to make me that way.
At Thanksgiving, we broke up. For the 2nd time. Finally figured out he was an alcoholic and stopped responding to his contact. Then after 3 weeks, he called, I answered (he blocked his number). I then realized I'm still vulnerable to him and despite my best intentions I felt like a sitting duck. Waiting for the next time that he decided to prey on me. Despite being told to not bother telling him he was an alcoholic, I needed the contact to stop....I called him to tell him to stop contacting me and then I just couldn't help myself. I told him I knew he was an alcoholic. This was an ugly telephone conversation to say the least.
Below is his immediate email response to me within 10 minutes of hanging up the phone. This is the last I've heard from him. I have said my peace. Glad I did. However, his alcoholic words get the best of me somedays.
Please use your best alcoholic knowledge to remind me of the A talking in this letter. Sometimes I begin to think he is right. And sadly, I know better.
His letter:
I don’t know how we went from its too hard to talk to me or see me to I’m an alcoholic, but if that’s the convenient way that you want to deal with the fact that I didn’t want to try again that’s okay with me.
The fact of the matter is that we were not a good fit. You were right the entire time; I needed more than you could give. I would suppress my emotions most of the time and then I would have a drink and they would come pouring out. I should have been more honest with you and myself and realized that I was not getting what I needed from our relationship. Everything you did told me that you didn’t want to be in a relationship and alcohol had nothing to do with it.
I have been seeing someone for about 6 weeks and I brought this up as a possible concern and her response was that I seem balanced. We are able to be together and have some wine or beer and it isn’t a problem. Maybe this is because this is a new relationship but I don’t think so….just a better fit. You once told me that if I didn’t have a problem I should own my drinking, well I am and I’m very happy. My relationship with my ex and the kids, my business and my personal life have never been better.
I also hope that if you have opinions about my drinking that you would keep them to yourself. I have to do business in this town and I don’t need my reputation dragged through the mud just as I wouldn’t do that to you. The people that truly know me and care about me accept me for who I am, tolerate me when I am not perfect and help pick me up when I need it.
The reason that I contacted you was in the hope that we could be friendly and at least stop avoiding each other. I hope that’s the case some day.
Today, I need a big group hug and a dose of reassurance. I am done with this relationship, but sometimes the tornado that entered my life is difficult to get rid of in my heart. I clearly know the manipulative ways of the alcoholic, but today has been a tearful one.
Quick background: I am in my 40's, divorced with 3 kids. 2 year relationship with xabf. Took me a long time to realize he was an alcoholic. He had just gotten out of 28 day rehab when we met and I 'believed' he could drink moderately. Over time, I couldn't figure out why I could never please him. I'm independent and he used it to make it into one of my faults. He needed me to be so needy and when I wasn't...he tried to make me that way.
At Thanksgiving, we broke up. For the 2nd time. Finally figured out he was an alcoholic and stopped responding to his contact. Then after 3 weeks, he called, I answered (he blocked his number). I then realized I'm still vulnerable to him and despite my best intentions I felt like a sitting duck. Waiting for the next time that he decided to prey on me. Despite being told to not bother telling him he was an alcoholic, I needed the contact to stop....I called him to tell him to stop contacting me and then I just couldn't help myself. I told him I knew he was an alcoholic. This was an ugly telephone conversation to say the least.
Below is his immediate email response to me within 10 minutes of hanging up the phone. This is the last I've heard from him. I have said my peace. Glad I did. However, his alcoholic words get the best of me somedays.
Please use your best alcoholic knowledge to remind me of the A talking in this letter. Sometimes I begin to think he is right. And sadly, I know better.
His letter:
I don’t know how we went from its too hard to talk to me or see me to I’m an alcoholic, but if that’s the convenient way that you want to deal with the fact that I didn’t want to try again that’s okay with me.
The fact of the matter is that we were not a good fit. You were right the entire time; I needed more than you could give. I would suppress my emotions most of the time and then I would have a drink and they would come pouring out. I should have been more honest with you and myself and realized that I was not getting what I needed from our relationship. Everything you did told me that you didn’t want to be in a relationship and alcohol had nothing to do with it.
I have been seeing someone for about 6 weeks and I brought this up as a possible concern and her response was that I seem balanced. We are able to be together and have some wine or beer and it isn’t a problem. Maybe this is because this is a new relationship but I don’t think so….just a better fit. You once told me that if I didn’t have a problem I should own my drinking, well I am and I’m very happy. My relationship with my ex and the kids, my business and my personal life have never been better.
I also hope that if you have opinions about my drinking that you would keep them to yourself. I have to do business in this town and I don’t need my reputation dragged through the mud just as I wouldn’t do that to you. The people that truly know me and care about me accept me for who I am, tolerate me when I am not perfect and help pick me up when I need it.
The reason that I contacted you was in the hope that we could be friendly and at least stop avoiding each other. I hope that’s the case some day.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Carolyn:
Just a quick reply to his email TOTAL MANIPULATION!!!
First, my xabf did the same thing. I never gave enough. NEVER! I could have drained the blood from my body and given it to him in a transfusion and it wouldn't have been enough.
Second, I don't buy the new gf thing. Mine told me he would be upfront and honest with the next girl. I imagine the conversation would have been like that in your xabf's email and I would have heard about it that way.
Third, it's funny how much they worry about everyone knowing that they are an A. Mine sent a frantic email concerned that I would discuss this with anyone. If there's not a problem, then why hide it?
Fourth, Idependence is an excellent quaility. I got bashed for it too! So crazy!!!
I read your pm and have thoughts on that. I'll pm you back later tonight when I get out of the office : )
HANG IN THERE! YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!
Just a quick reply to his email TOTAL MANIPULATION!!!
First, my xabf did the same thing. I never gave enough. NEVER! I could have drained the blood from my body and given it to him in a transfusion and it wouldn't have been enough.
Second, I don't buy the new gf thing. Mine told me he would be upfront and honest with the next girl. I imagine the conversation would have been like that in your xabf's email and I would have heard about it that way.
Third, it's funny how much they worry about everyone knowing that they are an A. Mine sent a frantic email concerned that I would discuss this with anyone. If there's not a problem, then why hide it?
Fourth, Idependence is an excellent quaility. I got bashed for it too! So crazy!!!
I read your pm and have thoughts on that. I'll pm you back later tonight when I get out of the office : )
HANG IN THERE! YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 523
Wow manipulation and total denial all in one.
"I don’t know how we went from its too hard to talk to me or see me to I’m an alcoholic, but if that’s the convenient way that you want to deal with the fact that I didn’t want to try again that’s okay with me"
In other words, you take the blame not me
"I would suppress my emotions most of the time and then I would have a drink and they would come pouring out."
Mmm He has to have a drink to show emotions!!!!
"have been seeing someone for about 6 weeks and I brought this up as a possible concern and her response was that I seem balanced. We are able to be together and have some wine or beer and it isn’t a problem".
YET!! took me longer than 6 weeks, poor woman i say.
"I also hope that if you have opinions about my drinking that you would keep them to yourself"
He is joking right!! this is a please dont tell anyone im an alcoholic.
"The people that truly know me and care about me accept me for who I am, tolerate me when I am not perfect and help pick me up when I need it".
Amen, well caroline i bet your glad your not one of them.
Keep this letter and read it again in a few months, and it will read differently. Your well rid my friend.
Take care
Mair
"I don’t know how we went from its too hard to talk to me or see me to I’m an alcoholic, but if that’s the convenient way that you want to deal with the fact that I didn’t want to try again that’s okay with me"
In other words, you take the blame not me
"I would suppress my emotions most of the time and then I would have a drink and they would come pouring out."
Mmm He has to have a drink to show emotions!!!!
"have been seeing someone for about 6 weeks and I brought this up as a possible concern and her response was that I seem balanced. We are able to be together and have some wine or beer and it isn’t a problem".
YET!! took me longer than 6 weeks, poor woman i say.
"I also hope that if you have opinions about my drinking that you would keep them to yourself"
He is joking right!! this is a please dont tell anyone im an alcoholic.
"The people that truly know me and care about me accept me for who I am, tolerate me when I am not perfect and help pick me up when I need it".
Amen, well caroline i bet your glad your not one of them.
Keep this letter and read it again in a few months, and it will read differently. Your well rid my friend.
Take care
Mair
up and out
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 185
Some really good points brought up here. Just received an email this morning that contained similar overtones of denial and manipulation.
It reminds me of when someone apologizes to you by saying "i'm sorry your feelings got hurt" or "i'm sorry you feel that way" or "i'm sorry things went like this" rather than actually take responsibility for their actions.
Weather or not he's lying or manipulating doesn't really matter as much as you figuring out why you still care. Many of us have been there.
This board and al-anon meetings will help immensely if you stick with it. The light will come on eventually.
Big hugs and all of my hope that your lightbulb goes off soon.
It reminds me of when someone apologizes to you by saying "i'm sorry your feelings got hurt" or "i'm sorry you feel that way" or "i'm sorry things went like this" rather than actually take responsibility for their actions.
Weather or not he's lying or manipulating doesn't really matter as much as you figuring out why you still care. Many of us have been there.
This board and al-anon meetings will help immensely if you stick with it. The light will come on eventually.
Big hugs and all of my hope that your lightbulb goes off soon.
Last edited by appleblaster; 02-25-2008 at 12:26 PM. Reason: spelling...oops!
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MO
Posts: 56
Omg caroline...his email is POISON!!! Manipulation, denial, cruel, deceitful, and the list goes on. The only thing to take from that hon...is he does not deserve you!! I know that doesn't help your heart...we all struggle with putting our heart back together but you know what a great person you are and don't believe that mess for a second!
I have moved out of the house...and preparing for divorce...and just this morning I get a call from my AH telling me he is not going to undergo any alcohol testing before driving the kids...because he doesn't feel he should....OH PLEASE!!! They know no boundaries where keeping their Alcoholic tendencies to themselves can surpass.
Be gentle with yourself and biggest hugs!
g
I have moved out of the house...and preparing for divorce...and just this morning I get a call from my AH telling me he is not going to undergo any alcohol testing before driving the kids...because he doesn't feel he should....OH PLEASE!!! They know no boundaries where keeping their Alcoholic tendencies to themselves can surpass.
Be gentle with yourself and biggest hugs!
g
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
OMG.....truthfully,the first thing I did was to look and see where your lived....I expected it to be Ohio!! haha Thought it was from my exAH (who has already been involved with at least 2 women since he moved out,that I know of).
I know what you mean about sometimes starting to really wonder and second-guess yourself. That's how I feel,esp. when he has so many people completely snowed about the reality of his drinking and accompanying behavior.
This email sounds like it is from a puffed-up ego who is trying to blame you and look magnamous at the same time (A's can do that
). I'll bet he would have liked to pat you on your little head after he said this,too!
UGH......so much BS. Like is often said,give him time and his true colors will show.
Glad you shared this;helped me!
I know what you mean about sometimes starting to really wonder and second-guess yourself. That's how I feel,esp. when he has so many people completely snowed about the reality of his drinking and accompanying behavior.
This email sounds like it is from a puffed-up ego who is trying to blame you and look magnamous at the same time (A's can do that
). I'll bet he would have liked to pat you on your little head after he said this,too!UGH......so much BS. Like is often said,give him time and his true colors will show.
Glad you shared this;helped me!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by Pick-a-name 
OMG.....truthfully,the first thing I did to look and see where your lived....I expected it to be Ohio!! Thought it was from my exAH (who has already been involved with at least 2 women since he moved out,that I know of).
I know what you mean about sometimes starting to really wonder and second-guess yourself. That's how I feel,esp. when he has so many people completely snowed about the reality of his drinking and accompanying behavior.
This email sounds like it is from a puffed-up ego who is trying to blame you and look magnamous at the same time (A"s can do that ). I'll bet he would have liked to pat you on your little head after he said this,too!
UGH......so much BS. Like is often said,give him time and his true colors will show.
Glad you shared this;helped me!
I know what you mean about sometimes starting to really wonder and second-guess yourself. That's how I feel,esp. when he has so many people completely snowed about the reality of his drinking and accompanying behavior.
This email sounds like it is from a puffed-up ego who is trying to blame you and look magnamous at the same time (A"s can do that
). I'll bet he would have liked to pat you on your little head after he said this,too!UGH......so much BS. Like is often said,give him time and his true colors will show.
Glad you shared this;helped me!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
I think he wrote the whole thing just to get to the bottom line-"Don't tell anyone in town that I'm an alcoholic". My ex asked me to do the same thing, as it would get him in trouble at work (which happened eventually anyway as it's such a progressive disease).
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 261
I don’t know how we went from its too hard to talk to me or see me to I’m an alcoholic, but if that’s the convenient way that you want to deal with the fact that I didn’t want to try again that’s okay with me.
The fact of the matter is that we were not a good fit
The fact of the matter is that we were not a good fit
Said the same thing about the friend thing. He says that he must be pretty likeable b/c all of his friends dont have a problem with how he drinks and they want to still be around him. Well duh....they didn't have to live with him. They see the fun party side of abf....that side is fine everyonce in a while but not ok if you are trying to make a life with someone.
Grhhhhhhh........I can't stand even talking to him anymore.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 261
I know what you mean about sometimes starting to really wonder and second-guess yourself. That's how I feel,esp. when he has so many people completely snowed about the reality of his drinking and accompanying behavior
The thing is is untill you live with an alcoholic or are really close you don't really get to truly feel the full effect.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dixie
Posts: 612
Complete crap. If he's an alcoholic, he doesn't have to worry about you telling anyone, because they will figure it out pretty quickly all by themselves... and eventually, they will stop "picking him up" when he needs it. So sorry for his new girlfriend. Perhaps we shall meet her here on the forum in a few months.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Okay, you've tormented yourself with his email long enough. Now it's time for you to trust your instincts that the guy is doing what addicts do and breathe a huge sigh of relief that he is out of your life.
Addicts are master manipulators; they have honed their skills over the years with family, friends, and loved ones. This guy has done nothing more than put his own b.s. into written words.
Bottom line: his email is all about HIM. It's called denial. And he has a very, very bad case of it. Don't let that tone you can read between the lines that he has the upper hand and is somehow (in his twisted way of thinking) better than you. I've been married to two A's and both of them thought they were very "special people." Yeah, uh-huh, whatever ....
Addicts are master manipulators; they have honed their skills over the years with family, friends, and loved ones. This guy has done nothing more than put his own b.s. into written words.
Bottom line: his email is all about HIM. It's called denial. And he has a very, very bad case of it. Don't let that tone you can read between the lines that he has the upper hand and is somehow (in his twisted way of thinking) better than you. I've been married to two A's and both of them thought they were very "special people." Yeah, uh-huh, whatever ....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 112
Thanks to all for the kind words.
I know that everyone means well, understands and that's what I love about these boards. I can be having a 'moment'....and although I know it will pass....I need an immediate response from people who get it.
Intellectually, I know that his words are a crock of *ull*****. So, I really don't benefit from hearing....'why do you care'.....blah, blah, blah, advice. I wish I didn't care. But at times I'm not superhuman...and that is why I love the people on this board who can remind me.....same lines of denial, sames lines of blame.....different alcoholic.
And that's.....all I need to hear on a bad day. I immediately feel better and just needed a swift reminder.
I have some really close friends who will listen to me when I need them. Here I can be anonymously needy....which feels good sometimes AND is immediately satisfying.
There is nothing like the voice of experience to remind me that alcoholics live insane lives and will say or do anything to protect their lover.
Thanks to all.
I know that everyone means well, understands and that's what I love about these boards. I can be having a 'moment'....and although I know it will pass....I need an immediate response from people who get it.
Intellectually, I know that his words are a crock of *ull*****. So, I really don't benefit from hearing....'why do you care'.....blah, blah, blah, advice. I wish I didn't care. But at times I'm not superhuman...and that is why I love the people on this board who can remind me.....same lines of denial, sames lines of blame.....different alcoholic.
And that's.....all I need to hear on a bad day. I immediately feel better and just needed a swift reminder.
I have some really close friends who will listen to me when I need them. Here I can be anonymously needy....which feels good sometimes AND is immediately satisfying.
There is nothing like the voice of experience to remind me that alcoholics live insane lives and will say or do anything to protect their lover.
Thanks to all.
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