denny57

I agree. AH is facing some pretty serious consequences right now and I find absolutely no joy in it.

There was a time I loved that man very much - why on earth would I wish him harm or rejoice in the path his life is going down?

After the initial I wish him dead phase, compassion and forgiveness came into play. Everything I've done to get to that place has been worth it. I can choose to live a life free from the alcoholic, but it doesn't mean I have to wish a horrible life for him.

denny57

Heather, I also wanted to comment on the title of the thread. Maybe an interesting idea to investigate is why YOU gave yourself over to someone so quickly, lent him money, etc. That way the focus is taken off of his behavior. Instead of focusing on what a rotten person he is for cheating on you and having a baby with his former/present girlfriend, it might be helpful to explore your own motives in entering the relationship.

Though I was with AH for 18 years, I am learning that what I did in the first year of our relationship pretty much set up what came in the next 17.

What are you working on in that regard?

karmakoma

That is a great point, D, and one I asked myself a thousand times until I found the answer.

If I didn't know him, why did I give him everything? And if I thought I knew him, where, in hindsight, were my areas of naivety?

I do not believe in black and white. Life is lived in shades of grey, until we add out own colours.

LaTeeDa

Yes, exactly what I meant when I said "responsibility for your part."

L

hbb

Karma ~ Thank you for posting that, i have read Dr. Phil's "From the Inside Out" and find him very helpful. Personally i don't care either way what happens to him or if he should have hard times or good times. I'm upset with him and the situation and everyone is different in how they deal with things. In this instance i'm NOT just ok with the result and kindly move on without being upset, i don't forget easily. I don't wish him ill but at this time it's hard to wish him anything, i am taking care of me and don't have to like him.

I'm not really sure your situation personally but that's great if you can forgive easily and move on, i envy you for that. I on the other hand am not that at peace when it comes to him or seeing his face, just me. I will get there one day but not just yet. I will say i've come a long way regardless of what some may think.

LTD ~ i do know what you mean, but for me i think for me personally my being indifferent will still probably consist of my feelings that he is a rotten person...jmho. It's taken me a long while to forgive and move on from my 1st ex. I am at peace with that now and am completely indifferent with him. This is still a bit new for me i guess. My intention of this thread is that not knowing someone, i'm shocked he could treat his co-workers this way, it's a shame because he has alot of potential but doesn't want it.

Denny ~ i can't answer your question as to why i did what i did, i fell hard for him and followed my heart. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I can't help but think that sometimes it turns that we are persecuted quickly for things we did for our A's in the past and are trying to learn from them now. I can't answer the why's, i guess another question is why did it happen to all of us? We are all in the same boat, granted my time was a much smaller scale but i'm still feeling a bit grilled for what i did or didn't do, i'm trying my best but i don't take blame. I know I wasn't perfect but if you asked him, there isn't one single moment where i disrespected him as my partner. When he walked out that door, because i asked specifically what i did but love him too much, he said nothing, there was no answer....

Here's my question, how can alot of you feel bad for things that have happened within your relationship when it was clearly not your doing or fault? My exabf is now supposedly sober so does that make a difference, he's a rotten person sober....when can someone place blame on the other and it's acceptable. I'll tell you i wore my heart on my sleeve ALL the time in our relationship. You all may say that's wrong but it's me, i do that for everyone because i want to. There's no excuse for my A's behavior period. Guess i'm not at total forgiveness nor am i sure that will come soon. I can be at peace with myself, doesn't mean i have to like him what so ever and right now, i don't. I'm also in no way looking for joy if some mishap should come his way, that's not me. Do i wish that he would see that the grass isn't always greener....ABSOLUTELY, but hey, maybe it is, who knows!!! This is just me, and my opinion on moving on, no disrespect intended, as i welcome all thoughts.....

hbb

I know what you mean, in all honesty, i truly am not walking around poor me. I am working on me really really hard these past few months. I no longer allow the power he did have over me to continue. I know there will be a day (hopefully soon) that i look back and have learned valuable lessons in all of this. It's just nice to have a place where people understand. My family and friends don't really understand because most of them are not dealing with alcohol/recovering addicts.

I hope to all of you that i didn't come off pissy because that truly wasn't my intension. It's just frustrating at times and i do get angry towards him.

p.s. heard the guy for Friday night is nervous to meet me! Little does know i'm throwing up inside lol!!!!!

I really do thank you for all your input and advice, my wall is coming down!!!

LaTeeDa

So you're saying if you had it to do all over again, you would do exactly the same thing? Or, more importantly, if the same situation arose now, you would respond in the same way?

Ah, so you do admit there is something to learn? Not for him, but for you?


I don't mean for you to "take blame." Nor do I mean for you to feel "grilled." You are not responsible for any of his actions. You are, however, responsible for all of yours. Including poor choices, acting impulsively, being in denial, or whatever it was that led you to be a part of an unhealthy relationship. These situations didn't "just happen" to any of us. The sooner you figure out the reasons, the closer you will be to finding peace and making some sense of it. It's not about blame, it's about learning. And sometimes learning is uncomfortable.

I do not feel bad for things that happened. Fault and blame get me nowhere. Recognizing the things I did to make a bad situation worse is what helps me have confidence in the future. I helps me to trust myself knowing the mistakes I made so that I can see more clearly. That isn't to say I won't ever make any more mistakes, but I believe I will recognize and correct them before they become monumental. LOL

You may want to ask yourself why. Not because it's right or wrong, but because of the outcome. If you want to continue getting the same results you got in the past, then there's no reason to ask yourself these questions. The only reason would be to learn from what didn't work in the past.

I agree 100%. This is not about excusing him. Forgiveness doesn't mean excusing behavior. It is for you, not him.

L

karmakoma

Why did you fall hard for him?

And why did you let your heart rule?

I have eliminated "blame" from my vocabulary. However, I take full responsibility for the situatuion I found myself in.

Where does your responsibility lie?

denny57

I can answer the whys now from my side of the street, and that is all that matters.

It didn't happen "to" me, it happened.

Maybe a good question then to start with is, why do I believe if I accept responsibility for something I am to "blame?"

cagefree

Heather,

I can speak from my perspective - I do not feel bad because I recognize part of it was my fault.

I didn't protect myself
I didn't make healthy choices

I now realize that following my heart does not always mean following my feelings. My heart wants me to be happy and healthy above everything and everyone else. What I thought my heart was feeling was not real. Sorting out what is real and what isn't is just a part of my recovery.

Keep searching yourself (((heather))) -you'll find the answers - just keep looking

hbb

See you were there too, you know what i mean about the initial feelings. Like i've said before, i don't wish him ill, i just have zero respect for him. I guess i'm just not at the place your at just yet. I'm alot closer to that place, i'm really not thinking or caring what he's upto anymore. As for financial, there's nothing i can do to change that, i check it each month and move on. At the time, i thought i was doing the right thing for "us".

And with regards to the title, i am working on the why's did i seek a relationship with him but i guess it comes down to me following my heart (which i still stand by) and lived and learned, the hard way.

No, i'm not saying that at all. I've learned alot over the past months through here and my therapist. I wouldn't give as much of me so fast but i probably would have loved him the same way that i did.

I admit i have alot to learn, guess that's why i'm still here for me, not him.

When we were together, i often said to myself pick my battles with him. Which i'm not saying is right but there was alot i tried to let bounce off me and there was ALOT i didn't. As for the drinking, i did set boundries, he knew exactley where i stood on that. Unfortunately, there was so much other drama that didn't have anything to do with me (sister in law) that it made it hard to come to an agreement because if i voiced my opinion i felt i was going against him and his family. It got wicked touchy and difficult.

I do see that this is definately for the best and there's no way i/we would have survived and i really mean it when i say that i don't want that kind of life. I don't see how it could have worked out because he was unwilling to admit he needed help and alot of it. He's pretty damaged from way back but i can't fix that, only he can and i do realize that now.

Barbara52

For me, following my heart means not recognizing that my emotions can be irrational and often leads me to making bad choices. If I allow emotions to rule my actions, I know I will continue to have bad relationships because I can become infatuated with what I think/want a man to be rather than what he really is and that I can let an underlying need (often one I am not quite aware of) rule my actions/choices. I know I have to allow my rational self rule because I have a history of letting emotions lead me into bad relationships.

Barbara52

What that says to me is I shut down my needs, my opinions, my self because it might cause troubles in my relationship. For me that would mean I didn't have a real relationship because it wasn't based on truth, I would be suppressing me to keep a fantasy alive.

hbb

That makes sense, i know other's have said that too. It's easy to get wrapped up in the emotional part unfortunately. I always started out with my head then it quickly switches! I even told myself this last time that i was NOT going to go down the same path as my past long term relationship. It happened again, but i didn't do what i am now to fix it once and for all so it was easier then. I'm hoping the next time (if there is one) that it will be different once and for all. I do think about it when i'm out and putting on a good attitude has helped. And i'm also very quick to notice too much drinking and similarities that i can't deal with again!

hbb

Your exactly right, i would never rock the boat in fear that he would say that's it we're done. Which i know is crazy and not a true relationship but that's how i felt. If i didn't do enough or bend over backwards enough he would not be interested in me. It's my own low self esteem, i know that now.

Barbara52

That is something you can change. Especially since you are aware you have a history of letting your heart rule your head.

And its not just alcoholic behaviors/red flags to watch out for. THere are all sorts of reasons a relationship can be a mistake. I know I intend to be much more aware if I ever decide to get in to the dating world again.

Barbara52

Heather, please don't take this as me telling you what to do or anything. Why are you entering the world of dating when you are aware you have many parts of yourself you want to work on?

To me, knowing I have issues to work on means I am not ready to date because I don't know who I am really, what I want really and I think it would be unfair to any potential partner to begin a relationship under those conditions.

I would like to know your thoughts. My reasoning may not be valid for you or anyone else. I would like to hear another line of thought on this.

hbb

I don't disagree with you.

I've said all along that i don't want to date and give myself till Summer to even consider it. I agreed to go out with four of us on friday night because if nothing else, i met a new friend. I'm not going into this with any expectations other than having a fun night. IF and i mean IF something further comes along from it i will be at a snails pace. I don't want to go through this again...believe me. My guard is at it's highest. I told myself that i wouldn't seek out anyone right now but if someone wanted to take me out i would do it because it doesn't mean i have to marry or date them

denny57

I'm not talking about changing it, I'm talking about examining why you did it. Ok, you thought it was the right thing for "us." Why? Why lend money to someone you were dating for less than a year? What were your motivations?

It isn't about blame, Heather, it's about examining why we do or did the things we did. Only when I understand that can I be conscious enough to not do it again.

For what it's worth, my wish him dead phase lasted about a week. Yes, Yes, I know it's different for everyone!

LaTeeDa

I resisted the idea that I had any responsibility for the way things turned out, too. But I have to say that once I came to grips with the notion that I am in control of what happens to me and I am in responsible for whatever relationships I have in my life, I felt so empowered. Even if you truly believe he is a rotten person, the fact remains that you chose him, you chose to give a big part of yourself to him, you chose to lend him money, and you chose to build a dream in your mind with him. If you really want to avoid the same kind of pain in the future, you must get to the root of what led you to those choices. It was very scary for me to unearth those parts of myself that sent me down the path of pain, but it is the only way I can take control of my choices. "Following your heart" sounds all warm and fuzzy and romantic, but isn't it just an excuse to avoid facing responsibility? Here is a quote that is very meaningful to me. I hope it helps illustrate what I am trying to say:

You are powerful beyond measure Heather.

L