Shivaya

Hi All,

My AH has been staying at a relatives condo all week (his idea) so that he can "figure things out" and "decide if our marriage is too far gone to be helped". He also indicated he was going to contact his Employee Assistance Program through work. This all happened after I said I cannot live with someone who does what he does anymore.

So, I have been supportive of him being gone, have asked a few times about the EAP and whether he has seen anyone. He got angry each time I asked him about it, so I stopped asking.

So....today is Friday, he is supposed to be coming home tonight. Says he'll be home around 6:30, and will be leaving at 7 pm to "go out with the guys"! Okay, he does not know this as I did not mention it to him, but I was planning to have a family night w/ dinner/movie at home.

I suppose we could do the family night tomorrow. When he told me he was going out, I paused and then said that the kids are going to be really disappointed (and they will), as am I.

So...I don't have a problem with him going out, I just thought that maybe he might want to be with is family (especially his kids) after being gone all week. I guess I thought wrong, and just because I would want to spend every second with my children after being away for week, does not mean that is what he wants to do.

I guess I just don't understand where this comes from? Is it normal not to want to be with your kids? I understand him not wanting to be around me, but his kids?

Anyone else experience this? What is this?

Oh, I learned in the last 2 days that my AH is a master manipulater (has always been, I just never had identified it), as well as passive-aggressive. I've heard this term a million times and never really thought about it. Example: my husband wants/needs something. He may make comments, hints, in a very low tone of voice, and I just won't get it. I need things to be said to me in a direct manner, no beating around the bush. Then, eventually, he will have to get angry and say exactly what he wants, which I wish he would have just done in the 1st place.

Both myself and my AH's childhood were really screwed up, highly dystunctional with divorce/alcohol addiction/drugs/violence. I've always said how amazed I am at how well we both "turned out".

I know I have issues. I've been working on them for as long as I can remember, and I'm still learning. I know my husband has issues, he has not worked on one single issue since I've known him.

So I guess what I'm saying is that how could I possibly think someone "turned out" okay, when they have never done any work on themselves to deal with their past?

Thanks for listening!

Shivaya

LaTeeDa

What exactly are you getting from this relationship?

L

Shivaya

I knew I could count on you gals to help me sort this out.

Okay, what am I getting out of this relationship? A paycheck every 2 weeks which allows us to live in a nice home, in a nice neighborhood, with an awesome school. I don't think I'm getting anything else out of the relationship. No support, no love, no intimacy, no joy.

Intersting thing, I am fulfilled and truly joyful in my relationships with my children, mom, sisters, friends. Not so with my AH. Is this b/c he drinks or b/c he's a jerk.

Funny, my AH has accused me many of times of just wanting him for a paycheck. Now, has he said that so many times that I am convinced, or do I really feel this way. I do need to think about this some more.

As for him going out tonight, I guess I'm just so used to letting him do what he wants to do, that frankly, I'd rather be home alone and do some reading and watch a movie.

That has been my life for many years now, him in the garage drinking/smoking pot, me in the house, reading and watching tv. How sad is that?

I want to be adored, loved, cherished, respected, and I want to give that to someone. I've not given that to my AH, partly b/c of his drinking/behavior, and partly b/c I don't know why....I have to think further about this to.

Thanks ladies, for making me really, really think!

Shivaya

LaTeeDa

No better person to start with than yourself.

There are many ways to make ends meet and live a happy, comfortable, joyful life. You don't have to sell your soul for a paycheck. (Whether it's yours or someone elses) It's not always easy, but it doesn't seem that you have it so easy right now.

Just my thoughts.

L

Daisy30

good thoughts! I understanfd the paradox. You stay because you love being able to spend time with your kids. You want to leave because you are getting nothing (relationship wise) from him.

Are you getting help fro yourself? educating yourself about A?

Remember he has to get sicker before he can get better

darkness_falls

I think it's the addiction that turns your AH (like mine) into a jerk. I say do what makes you happy and a quiet night at home with the kids sounds perfect. Perhaps he's not done "thinking" yet. Perhaps he can't face the fact that he needs to fix his problem before he can go on having a life with you.

None of us are perfect. We all have issues to deal with so don't put yourself down and I absolutely agree that there are those who do something about getting through their bad childhood experiences and those who don't. I know mine has never dealt with his. Enjoy your evening.

Shivaya

Thanks all for the helpful comments. I do love and respect myself, and I feel like it's been a very long time since I've shown love and respect to my AH.

I'm trying to figure out if I pay no attention to him b/c he does not pay me any attention, b/c I can't stand his drinking and actions when he drinks so therefore even when he's not drinking (during the day), a lot of the time I'm upset with what he did the night before (he doesn't usually remember, and of course I have to tell him what he did).

I am attending Alanon mtgs. (2 so far), and am seeing a therapist. Should have been doing both of these a long time ago...oh well, no better time like the present.

I only spoke to my AH briefly when he came home, I was basically following him around the house and outside, waiting for him to give me some kind of indication of where he's at. He said we have all weekend to talk, but he did say that he did speak with a counselor, and they have referred him to someone else....

This is a big step for him. For as long as I've known him, he has always said that he would never seek counseling, so I'm glad for him and hope that it helps him.

I take so much pride and joy in my job as a stay at home mom. I am dedicated and passionate about the healthy development of my children, as well as all children that I come into contact with. I think that SAHM's have one of the most important jobs in the world. I sometimes feel that even though my AH and I discussed that I would stay home with the kids, he resents the fact that I "don't work", and don't bring home a paycheck.

Well, I don't bring home a paycheck, but I do bring home $400/month withe my 2 babysitting jobs. But somehow, this just is not enough for him.

I feel as if he does not see the value of me staying home with the kids. Or I guess I should say that logically he knows it's best, but for some reason he can't get over the fact that I don't have a paycheck. I'm wondering if this is a common thing for SAHM's?

Thanks for your replies,

Shivaya

hope2bhappy

I'm impressed with how you have managed to settle into the alcoholic marriage -- fufilled with your other relationships, family nights, etc. Your life goes on, in spite of his continued drinking. This is the way to hang in when you choose to stay in an alcoholic marriage.

As far as the other life you dream about and sometimes long for... you won't get it with an active alcoholic. You will need to leave the marriage and find this life with someone else.

I know how you feel. I come from a similar background. I had to outweigh one type of life against the other. I chose option A. It was the right choice for me. I'm not advocating either option for you.

For now, at least, you seem to have found a way to lead a relatively happy life in your present circumstances. Really good job! Now, if you could just figure out how to co-exist with this person without giving him the cold shoulder. A real challenge, I know.

Shivaya

Thanks Hope2bhappy for your kind words.

My AH has brought up numerous times when we are communicating (arguing) the fact that "you are just living this great life of being involved with the kids, getting to stay home, and you are always having fun with your friends".

I think he's angry because I am happy (not with him but with everything else) and he is not happy (with himself, or anything else).

I have a very positive outlook on most matters, and I try and see the good in all people and situations. My AH on the other hand, thinks everyone is out to get him, when something good does come his way, he never acknowledges that maybe it came to him because he did something good. Perfect example: He did not drink (at least until the kids and I were in bed) for a few weeks. So...in the evenings after work, we actually had dinner together as a family, and he interacted with his children (rather than yelling at them to just get in bed). So....as a result of this, his children we're giving him more love/attention. Very simple stuff here. Yet, he absolutely will not acknowledge that they are giving him more attention because he is paying more to them.

He says "you told them to come cuddle with me". No, I did not. They made that decision all by themselves. Well then "they can sense that something is wrong between us". No, because if they did, they would be all over their Mom, not you. He refuses to admit that they are responding because he is "there" and not emotionally vacant.

What a mess! I sure do have a lot on my mind today. My fingers just want to keep on typing!

Shivaya

:puppet

Barbara52

Being a SAHM is a wonderful thing. But, and there is always a but, is it worth the soul destroying effects of living with an alcoholic? Is it worth your children learning all the dysfunctional behaviors they are learning for you and their father? Is it worth them learning that this is what adult life is supposed to be like? That adult men/fathers are not supposed to be involvewd with their family, that adult men/fathers are a paycheck to their adult women/wives? That alcoholism is normal?

Being a SAHM is an honorable way of life but in many ways a luxury these days.

Shivaya

Good point Barbara52. I'll have to think about that one....

Thanks,
Shivaya

Daisy30

I am a SAHM too and that is thought provoking Barbara.

I have been thinking about that a lot lately. Here is what I keep going back and forth on.

If I left, I would have to work fulltime. The children would have to be in daycare for most of the day. I would get only a short time at night with the younger two before their bedtime and weekkends. The weekends I would have to share with AH. He would have to have some sort of supervised visites b/c He can't be trusted. The children will have to adjust to this situation and ultimately still deal with an A. I will be there to help them understand it.

If I stay, I can be home to raise my children and guide their development. I will have more time to engage them and time to volunteer at my older dd school. They will have to deal with an A and I will be there to help them understand it.

I don't know which one is better? I believe in marriage. I believe in the vows I took that said in good time and in bad times. Yes, these would be the bad times. As long as I am working on my recoveryI know my children will benifit.

I don't have the answers

Chrysalis123

I too am a SAHM and I homeschool. Boy, it is a hard decision. I know when my kids were small and AH was acting out I could not even fathom leaving. I look back and see that I became numb and also depressed especially once I realized the extent of AH's addiction and manipulations and lies. So that was not good for my kids. Now that my kids are older and the AH's behavior is spiralling out of control again I have decided to divorce. But the decisions regarding the parenting plan are so hard. I don't trust him either as he is like dealing with a 12 year old in a 48 year body. Just today he decided on his own to alter the parenting plan without a call to me for the umpteenth time. I called him and stated my concerns and I was told, "Stop being unreasonable." See, with him it is unreasonable if I set a boundary. I feel frustrated today but now I'm going to play with my cat and tickle my daughter and get on with the business of living my life fully.

LaTeeDa

Here is my two cents.

My mom was a SAHM. She spent time with us, taught us, and was there when we came home from school. My dad was an alcoholic.

I'm sure I benefitted from my mother's attention and involvement in my life. No question. But I grew up and married an alcoholic.

Parents are the primary role models in children's lives. I learned what marriage was from my parents. And I grew up and repeated the pattern. When I was faced with the choice, I chose to stop the pattern. I do not want my children to learn that alcoholism and codependence are normal ways of being. I want more for them. I wish my mom had wanted more for me.

L

Shivaya

Thank you all for more great insight/comments/suggestions.

LaTeeDa, I want to do what you did......stop the pattern. Enough!

And Daisy30, what an important point you bring up. If I choose to stay in this marriage, my children will be exposed to dysfunctional behaviors (mine and his), as well as his alcoholism. If I choose to leave, my children will be exposed to dysfunctional behaviors (mine and his), as well as his alcoholism.

Now, if we are all in the same house together, I can protect my kids from the behaviors that come with drinking (as I've been doing for over 10 years). If we separate, I have no control over what he might say/do with them, especially if he is drinking.

I already feel terrible that my kids were alone with him this weekend for a full day and into the evening, and that when I came home, he had been drinking (maybe not drunk, maybe could pass a DUI test), but STILL......under the influence. And I should point out that I didn't feel terrible they were with him, of course, but that he chose to drink when he was the adult in charge.

I don't think this acceptable behavior.

Arghhhhh, I'm frustrated!

Shivaya

nowinsituation

My story exactly -- and my Mom came from an alcoholic and broken home (but was raised in her early years by her grandparents - -which probably saved her and ultimately saved us from untold emotional damage). My dad was high-functioning, but he was never around and never involved in our lives. I think that is why I put up with the same thing, my childhood told me that is what husbands do, that's what marriage is like. I so much hope that it is not too late for my daughter to learn a different pattern.

peaceteach

My (now 21 year old) daughter hears my "rules" all the time! No whirlwind rush-into-it romances, you won't meet your future husband in a bar, keep an eye out for possessiveness, be happy with yourself first, etc. She has broken up with several boyfriends on "dealbreakers" from the above list. It's really important to keep those lines of communication going, continuously, with our daughters. I realize that ultimately it is her decision, but she has me as a role model for what to NOT put up with. Instilling independence and self-worth in our daughters is extremely important when they have addicted fathers. Being independent women and feeling our own self-worth is the best example for them to follow in life.

GiveLove

So....you're not separated, but STILL you have no control over what he says & does, and still he puts them in danger by drinking?

At least separated, you would be able to control his visitation and insist that he be sober, lest he lose his visitation rights. In your current situation, you have no rights. And no joy in your marriage. And no freedom. I understand what you're getting from this relationship.....but I too wonder whether you might be short-changing yourself, and your children, by staying with an alcoholic who seems to have no intention of getting sober, and every intention of undermining your self-esteem.

Just my two cents' -- you sound like a super lady, shivaya, and the things he says and does pain me.

Shivaya

Thank you for pointing this out to me. I had not thought of the fact that if we separated (or divorced), the court would insist he not drink around the children. Hmmmm, I have to think about this. That sounds pretty good to me....

My eyes are opening more and more every day.

Shivaya

Daisy30

Wow what a great discussion. I have a lot of thoughts on this. I can see it both ways.
Isn't great to realize that no one answer is correct? That we can have many answers and they all can be correct.

I often think what would my children say as adults about their childhood.....and I think about what they would say if I stayed and if I left.

Would they say my mom was always there but my dad was a drunk.. I never knew what it was like to have a healthy relationship role model....or would they say my dad had issues my mom talked to us about them. It was hard...but we always knew someone loved us

Would they say it was hard but we made it through....or would they say my mom was never around and neither was my dad?

I dunno???