The difference between vulnerable and fragile

Old 02-06-2008, 08:53 AM
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The difference between vulnerable and fragile

Hi all, I've been semi lurking due to an amazing amount of work right now, however I wanted to throw something in here that I have learned recently that may be helpful for those of us who keep getting hooked in. I've seen variations of that problem here a lot lately- and I know it has been a huge problem for me with my AH. I've felt sorry for him. He's behaved like he can't do something, so I jump in and do it for him. We are separated right now and in the process of divorce, so sometimes he puts on his sad face, and I get hooked in. He tries his quacking and I jump in to defend myself or explain my point of view. . . on and on. My point is- he's behaving in a fragile way. As an adult being fragile is not a positive thing. Do I want to live my life with a fragile adult who has the ability to take care of himself but does not, who should have the ability to make mature, rational choices but chooses not to- No. If I choose that I am choosing not to take care of myself. I am choosing to take care of a man who behaves like a child.

I- for some reason- thought- "oh poor him, he's sick, he's so vulnerable." I don't know why but I used that word one day with my counselor. She immediately told me that I have been vulnerable. He has not. He has been fragile- big difference. I have owned what I need to own in our relationship. I have admitted my wrongs- THAT is being vulnerable- stepping forward and admitting we are human. He has not been able to do that. Everything is MY fault. Being vulnerable is a desirable trait we should have as adults. Being fragile is not desirable- it's something we see in children- and that is something to be compassionate about. But an adult? No- I choose to be compassionate about his alcoholism- not his fragility. He's a grown man. So, when he behaves like he cannot take care of himself, when he tries to blame me for everything, when he makes sad eyes at me but continues to do nothing to help himself, I tell myself that he is an adult, he has choices, I am only 50% of our relationship. It has been hard, but I think something very important to my recovery. It has helped me to see him differently. Yes, he is sick, but I cannot do anything to "make" him choose to get better. Falling for his fragility does neither of us any good. Something to think about. . .
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:05 AM
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Thanks for sharing your wisdom and the distinction.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Pajarito View Post
- he's behaving in a fragile way. As an adult being fragile is not a positive thing...
Behaving is the key word.

An act filled with drama (behaving) is called quacking.
Do you know that a duck's quack carries no echo?

My guess as to why that is so... Nature knows better then to listen to a duck's quack and repeat it.

When you hear quack quack quack... in your thoughts you should be doing this...

:codiepolice
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:11 AM
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Wow, Paj! I think this is a really big important thing you have come to understand. I remember the huge relief I felt when it finally dawned on me that I am not responsible for him. Major, major light bulb. My natural urge is to "take care" of people. The alcoholic's natural urge is to take advantage of that. Like a hand in a glove.......

L
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:12 AM
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Thank you, Pajarito. I agree.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:19 AM
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Very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Some thoughts I had:

I am an insanely, voluntarily, vulnerable person, but I wouldn't say that I am fragile at all. In fact, I think that I get strength from my willingness to be vulnerable, and honest. I've been wondering about this topic a little recently. My ex is very good at putting up walls, putting up a front, but behind all of these defenses is a very fragile person. It might be the same vulnerability at root- we all have that hurt child inside of us - but I kind of think that the denial of this vulnerability makes it more of a scary, secret thing. It makes it bigger than it needs to be. Hiding it away makes it appear to be more fragile than it is.

When I expose my vulnerabilities, even if they aren't treated with care, I see that they do not break. I do not break. I just get hurt, heal, and move on. And those same ways to hurt me remain, but I know what they are. I own them, and I've made myself comfortable with them, because they aren't going away (nor do they need to.)

Anyway, I applaud your willingness to make yourself vulnerable. I think that it is a brave, true, thing. And I think that it is good for you!

This was a little scattered -- I hope it makes sense.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:34 AM
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This is a great topic.

I'll throw this in from Roget's Thesaurus:
1) Vulnerable: Open to attack and capture because of a lack of protection.

2) Fragile: Easily broken or damaged.

It's a slippery slope either way. I'll get back to this when I'm done shoveling all this snow from my driveway. Back Later.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by good_luck View Post
My ex is very good at putting up walls, putting up a front, but behind all of these defenses is a very fragile person. It might be the same vulnerability at root- we all have that hurt child inside of us - but I kind of think that the denial of this vulnerability makes it more of a scary, secret thing. It makes it bigger than it needs to be. Hiding it away makes it appear to be more fragile than it is.

When I expose my vulnerabilities, even if they aren't treated with care, I see that they do not break. I do not break. I just get hurt, heal, and move on. And those same ways to hurt me remain, but I know what they are. I own them, and I've made myself comfortable with them, because they aren't going away (nor do they need to.)
I agree with you: We all have that hurt- fragile child inside of us. I would have to say that most of my buttons are from childhood hurts. I'm like you- I have no problem- lately- with admitting my faults- being vulnerable- so that I can try to get to the core of why I am who I am- why I put up with so much crap. I want to be a healthier person so that I can learn from this horrible period in my life and feel one day like it was hard but meant to be and maybe even the best thing that ever happened to me. I know my AH is struggling with something- perhaps his childhood issues as well, but that is not my stuff to solve for him. It is a huge AHA for me- thanks LTD- to realize I am only responsible for myself. Thanks for your response.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pajarito View Post
I want to be a healthier person so that I can learn from this horrible period in my life
How it has worked for me is that I no longer consider it a horrible period in my life. That is huge. Working through it has led me to a place where I don't look at the negatives of it as outweighing the positives. It's too complicated for that. I don't have to make it horrible to justify the actions I took and continue to take. The black and white thinking is gone. It doesn't mean I'm wishy washy on any of it, nor do I excuse the alcoholic's behavior. When I keep the focus on me, I am not inclined to make things into this or that; or one or the other; hate or love. When I think about it, I don't just eat a veg or a piece of meat, I eat the entire platter.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DetachMe9 View Post
This is a great topic.

I'll throw this in from Roget's Thesaurus:
1) Vulnerable: Open to attack and capture because of a lack of protection.

2) Fragile: Easily broken or damaged.

It's a slippery slope either way. I'll get back to this when I'm done shoveling all this snow from my driveway. Back Later.
Hi D9- I see what you (might) be saying. I think being vulnerable is a way to be up front about who we are-being honest. Yes, it might be responded to with an "attack", but I have no control over that. I admit what I own for myself- not to be understood necessarily or in order to make everything ok with my AH. It's to grow in understanding of myself. That doesn't mean I go around purging whenever I have the opportunity. Sometimes it's just to myself in journaling, or with my therapist as a way to get to the bottom of some behavior I realize I need to address in myself. Maybe vulnerable isn't the best word- but it is the word I used with my therapist. I don't have a problem with it. I feel good about being able to admit my faults. But the big difference these days is I only own my half of our relationship, and will not take on everything as my AH seems to want me to.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by denny57 View Post
How it has worked for me is that I no longer consider it a horrible period in my life. That is huge. Working through it has led me to a place where I don't look at the negatives of it as outweighing the positives. It's too complicated for that. I don't have to make it horrible to justify the actions I took and continue to take. The black and white thinking is gone. It doesn't mean I'm wishy washy on any of it, nor do I excuse the alcoholic's behavior. When I keep the focus on me, I am not inclined to make things into this or that; or one or the other; hate or love. When I think about it, I don't just eat a veg or a piece of meat, I eat the entire platter.
Denny- I am trying to understand this. Are you saying that now you look at it as more of a positive experience than you did when you were in the throes of it? One of my problems- I think- is that I want to be able to understand everything- to put it all into a nice, neat little box. It's much too messy for that. Where I am losing you is where you say: "When I keep the focus on me. . ." Can you explain? Thanks. Paj
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pajarito View Post
Denny- I am trying to understand this. Are you saying that now you look at it as more of a positive experience than you did when you were in the throes of it? One of my problems- I think- is that I want to be able to understand everything- to put it all into a nice, neat little box. It's much too messy for that. Where I am losing you is where you say: "When I keep the focus on me. . ." Can you explain? Thanks. Paj
It was a process for me; not a one-day-I-woke-up and changed my thinking. It has happened gradually and I believe, for me, it has come about because I have kept "the focus on me." I don't view my life through alcoholism anymore. It isn't easy for me to explain.

Since I took the focus off the alcoholic, I've come to realize I have a very good life; I am a fun person - either on my own or with others; I am worthy of love, affection, good times, respect. I have people in my life who I love and who love me. I've continued to do the same work I did with AH and love it more than ever. I've started a new business and am having a blast doing that. The less I live in the drama that comes with addiction the more I can see things for what they were and are.

I also used to want to understand everything (I don't see that as a "problem" LOL) but I now accept the nature of addiction is not for me to understand, but to accept. Acceptance has led me to a place where I have faith - that life is going exactly as it should. If that is true, then I can't view my life, or any part of it, as something horrible. Life is a joy - it really is - and a gift I am no longer willing to squander. Maybe that comes with age. Maybe that's why I hope those here who are younger than I - especially those in their 30's, the age I was when I got involved with AH - listen with an open mind and heart to what is here for them.

Finally, if I hadn't lived for a time in the chaos of addiction, I would have never landed here, never met some of the most wonderful people in my life, or been taking some of the adventures I am now on. Everything does happen for a reason and I'm having fun without knowing the reason for now.

Much love to you.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by denny57 View Post
It was a process for me; not a one-day-I-woke-up and changed my thinking. It has happened gradually and I believe, for me, it has come about because I have kept "the focus on me." I don't view my life through alcoholism anymore. It isn't easy for me to explain.
Yes- I can tell it is a process- sometimes too slow for me, but I feel I am getting there.

Originally Posted by denny57 View Post
Since I took the focus off the alcoholic, I've come to realize I have a very good life; I am a fun person - either on my own or with others; I am worthy of love, affection, good times, respect. I have people in my life who I love and who love me. I've continued to do the same work I did with AH and love it more than ever. I've started a new business and am having a blast doing that. The less I live in the drama that comes with addiction the more I can see things for what they were and are.
Someone said something to me this week about finding out who (Paj) is. I thought that was a little funny. Don't I know who I am? I know I don't really- not the way I will in going through all of this.

Originally Posted by denny57 View Post
I also used to want to understand everything (I don't see that as a "problem" LOL) but I now accept the nature of addiction is not for me to understand, but to accept. Acceptance has led me to a place where I have faith - that life is going exactly as it should. If that is true, then I can't view my life, or any part of it, as something horrible. Life is a joy - it really is - and a gift I am no longer willing to squander. Maybe that comes with age. Maybe that's why I hope those here who are younger than I - especially those in their 30's, the age I was when I got involved with AH - listen with an open mind and heart to what is here for them.
I like your distinction between understanding and acceptance. That's a better way of looking at it for me. I know I'll never understand it, but I hope one day to truly accept it.

Originally Posted by denny57 View Post
Finally, if I hadn't lived for a time in the chaos of addiction, I would have never landed here, never met some of the most wonderful people in my life, or been taking some of the adventures I am now on. Everything does happen for a reason and I'm having fun without knowing the reason for now.
Ahh- I want to feel this way. I've lived for a very, very long time in miserable conditions. I am so tired of that, and realize in order to crawl out of it I need to do some hard work. I believe I'm getting there. Thanks for your response. I've learned a lot from you today.
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:19 PM
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me too
thanks denny:ghug3

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Old 02-06-2008, 05:12 PM
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I want to say WOW...and thanks denny for your posts on this thread.

Great thread!
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by DetachMe9
This is a great topic.

I'll throw this in from Roget's Thesaurus:
1) Vulnerable: Open to attack and capture because of a lack of protection.

2) Fragile: Easily broken or damaged.

i think the KEY word in vulnerablity is "OPEN". we have to allow ourselves a certain amount of vulnerablity in order to be "OPEN" to life and relationships.

a big part of my growth has been once again allowing myself to be vulnerable, no matter how much i want to protect against it because it has also allowed me to start feeling again and it has allowed me to get in touch with who i am. it has also allowed me to start taking risks again.

OPEN OPEN OPEN
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:50 AM
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hopeangel- I agree. It's about being realistic about who we are. It doesn't mean purging with anyone who will listen- but perhaps those we feel safe with, ourselves, and sometimes for me it meant stepping forward in counseling with my AH to admit I did try to control something that was out of my control. I was hoping we could have an honest conversation, but it turned out to be just me admitting some of my faults- being vulnerable- and feeling good about my ability to do so. Now I feel I can move forward in my life knowing I have owned some of what wasn't working in our marriage. It will- hopefully- help me to be the person I want to be. I want to learn from the past instead of making the same mistakes with someone else.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:55 AM
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Thanks anvilhead- I believe you are right. I have been putting an awful lot of energy into my marriage and into him- and it wasn't being reciprocated. . . also at my expense in depriving myself. I'm exhausted but starting to see the light. I am going to now use that wasted energy on myself. The prospect of what that could bring to me gives me great hope.
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