Zak68

Well, my AW was batting 1.000 this weekend. Drunk Friday/Saturday/Sunday night. Gotta love it.

So last night we were all watching Extreme Makeover - HOme Ed. last night as we like to watch that as a family. Wife was plowed before and passed out through most of it with kids snuggled on either side of her and her Vodka over Ice in a cup to the side.

Suddenly my son asks her if he can have a drink of her "water" as he is thirsty. You would have thought someone shoved a hot poke up her gluteous, she snapped awake, grabbed the drink and told him she didn't want his germs on her cup. I then offered to get him some so he wouldn't have to get up.

Had the kids take laundry up on the commercial and pulled my daughter off to the side. We talked for about 5-10 min about how I need her help. I can't be around always and Mom always has her special drinks lying around. I needed her help to make sure she or my son never drink from them. We also talked about what to do in case of an emergency when I am not home. She is to call me or get a neighbor to drive and under no condition is she ever to ride with Mom if she is drunk.

I showed her one of Mom's hiding spots where she had an empty bottle and we had a nice open chat about Mommy's problem. It felt good to open up to her about it and hopefully it will help ease the pain when things do come to a head between me and the AW. She will know about the problem and I hope it will better serve to strengthen our already close relationship.

fluffyflea

It's great to able to communicate with your kids about their Mom. Kids need to hear the truth. Just watch that you communicate with them in a way that doesn't denigrate or put their Mom down to them. Remember she is still their Mom.

Do you have Ala-teen in your area?

Ngaire

Growing

As an adult child of alcoholics, I applaud your efforts at educating your children about alcoholism. I know it would have helped me as a child.

You are helping your children by letting them know it is not their fault. Mom has a sickness and is making bad choices.

Honesty is the best policy.

Good Luck,

Growing

BohemiMamaof3

Bravo, Zak. I forget how old you said your kids were. The only thing I would add is to periodically remind her again of what to do, the phone #'s to call and not to get into the car.

Zak68

My daughter is 11 and my son 7.

I think a year or so ago I would have brought Mom down in their eyes just to be spiteful but I am beyond that. Our talk was one of Mom has a problem. I have tried to get help, grandma & grandpa (prior to his death) tried as well. All of us tried to help her but Mommy keeps doing this and we can't stop her. We talked about drinking and driving, the dangers of drinking, how Mom gets mad sometimes when she drinks, how she keeps "falling asleep" during family times. We talked about how it is hurting us as much as it hurts her but mostly about what to do if the is the only "adult" around.

My daughter is an amazing person. At times she amazes me with her class and maturity and I try my best not to take it for granted and show her respect by treating her as a young adult and not a child.

Growing

"I think a year or so ago I would have brought Mom down in their eyes just to be spiteful but I am beyond that."---This is great...good for you. This attitude really helps your own sense of self-worth and helps the children in the long run, IMHO.

As I mentioned before, both of my parents were A's.

"At times she amazes me with her class and maturity and I try my best not to take it for granted and show her respect by treating her as a young adult and not a child."---Your daughter is learning to be an adult with adult responsibilities at a young age because of your wifes alcoholism. Children lose a part of their childhood to this disease. You have prepared her well and for that I applaud you. However, these responsibilies, in an ideal world, should not be placed on her. She will develop a sense of responsiblity for her mom. How well that works out, only time will tell.

I tell you this because it is the truth and not to bum you out. What you are doing is the very best you can do with what you have to work with, at the moment...but you should be, or, are aware of the toll it will take on your children.

Children like to be treated or talked to like adults, to a certain extent. Children also need their childhood... where adults shoulder the heaviest responsibilities.

I have some experience with this as an adult child of alcoholics. Please check out the ACOA section of this forum, if your interested and you can see what we ACOA's are facing, now, as adults.

Education is important for you and your kids.

Zak68

Growing I agree completely about children need to be children and not be forced to grow-up too fast. I have tried for the longest time to shelter them from the drama between my wife and myself but I know I can only do so much. One thing these forums have taught me is to look out for yourself and those who are impacted by the A's problems. I don't expect her to police my AW for me or report in, all I want is to ensure my children's safety when I am not there to serve as a buffer between them and my AW.

If I ignored it and had not spoken to her about it and something happened where one of them got hurt as a result of my AW's drinking I couldn't live with myself.

Lilyflower

Zak,

I say the following with only the best wishes at heart and do not mean to offend you. I think its great you are educating your daughter about this problem, have you not considered talking to your son also? He is not too young to notice what is happening around him and perhaps he needs a talk with Dad to help him understand?

These are still young ages. My daughter is 9yrs. She understands about abf's 'illness' and that he can get a temper, fall asleep, it not her fault etc. IMHO she is still too young for certain responsibilities like watching out for her brother not to have 'Mommy's special drinks', (also there ain't nothing 'special' about them!) Its important to be very careful how to word a sentence to a child, they are very literal beings.

All this sounds very heavy for a child of her age. For example, if Mom is drunk and begins to get angry that she won't get in the car, do you really expect an 11yr old to defy their mom to this extent? IMHO I think she would cave, despite what you say. How is she supposed to prevent herself and her younger brother from getting in? Her mom is a giant compared to her (ever gotten down to a childs height and looked up?) and physically no match.

I would seriously think about changing your work pattern if possible or finding someone responsible to help with babysitting so to remove this problem. Please don't misinterpret me Zak, I know you are doing what you can, but as I learnt with my daughter, children cannot protect themselves, that is why we are here, IMHO they should not be put into the position of protecting themselves from their parent. You should be playing that part.

I am all for this, but be careful you don't lean to heavily on her, she is not your support giver, she is still a child.

Lily xxxxxxx

Zak68

I don't think I can take anything on these forums as offensive Lily. =) All is given with open hearts and the best of intentions.

I do need to speak to my son. In the past I have told him never to drink out of our cups in case we have an adult drink in them and he is very good about asking before sampling. I haven't spoken with him directly about Mom getting sleepy and such but I do feel I need to at some point. I agree it might be hard for my daughter to stand up in a situation like that but I plan on talking to her more about it to let her know how important it is even if she has to call me before defying Mom.

Hopefully life will be different soon. I know it's bad to wait but I want to wait for taxes to be done and a few other things financially to straighten out (which should in the next month or so) and then I can turn life on it's head. I personally see March as the month I will end it all.

LaTeeDa

IMO, this is better. Take the responsibility yourself. Don't put it on her. When my husband was still drinking and the kids wanted to spend time with him (after we separated) I let them know that they could call me at any time and I would come get them for any reason. (didn't have to be his drinking) As an ACOA I can tell you that having had too much responsibility put on me at an early age has had a definite impact on my behaviors as an adult. I sometimes feel overly responsible for other people and take on blame that isn't mine.

Can you imagine if your daughter tries to protect herself or her brother and fails? It could be devastating to her. Please don't set her up to fail.

My therapist emphasized to me that no matter what, children will blame themselves when things go wrong. It is important to let her know that you will protect her, and that none of this is her fault. If you put her in the position of parenting her brother (because her mother can't), you give her the message that it is her fault if she fails, and there is no one to protect her.

I am so sorry that your family is going through all this. I just breaks my heart. Your daughter may be very mature, but she is still a little girl who needs a grown-up to protect her. I know how hard it is to be the only sane parent in the family, and I admire you for taking the steps you are taking.

L

Chrysalis123

I had to have a similar talk with my 10 and 12 year old kids because of their Dad. I had them both practice various scenarios with me. For instance, what would they do if a friend's teen-age sister had had a beer and was suppose to drive them home. They pretended to call me on the phone. We then practiced what would they do if someone's mom had been drinking etc. We went through what to do if they felt embarrassed, which was blame it on me. You know, "My mom said..... therefore my mom wants me to do.....". Then I moved the topic to their dad and what to do if he insisted they get in the car in a nice way and what to do if he insisted in a grumpy/angry way. I plan to repeat the practice session again in a few months.

Lilyflower

Thank you Zak, I have an inbuilt desire to never cause pain to anyone I know, so I often apologise for things I do or say, yet another issue for me!

Things will be different because you have the desire to change. I can understand the waiting. I set myself a limit with my abf back in October that I, just like you, would wait till March to make some major decisions in my life. Like you, my reasons are financial, as I know I will be more stable then and able to go alone if needs be, also I knew I wasn't strong enough to handle a major decision back then.

For nearly 5 months now I have had an arrangement for my parents to take care of my daughter after school until I can get home to her. My abf was passing out, falling around drunk, forgetting to feed her, having his 'friends' over etc, and I knew she needed the security of a home to come to after school, and not the mess our house was in. I had gotten myself into a big mess at work because of leaving early to be with her when she needed me, and the constant worry if she was ok was driving me insane. I would call her nearly every ten minutes to check she was ok, or to make sure abf was being a parent. Now I am happy to say that abf is doing much better and is sober 80% of the time. Which is a great improvement for him and he is still working his path. However I haven't altered my plans concerning my daughter. She still goes to nanna's and papa's, as she calls them.

Lily xxxxxxxxxx

Mair

well done zak given the circumstances i think you did the right thing, they know much more than we think. My ex husband (non alcoholic) but a diabetic who could never and still cant keep his illness undercontrol used to have hypos it could happen at any time, my kids had to learn at an early age what to do if he had an episode as scary as it was for them they had to learn for their safety the other choice was never to see their father unaccompanied . Hypos can be mistaken for drunken behavious and are similar in many ways he would get aggresive and wouldn't think twice about driving. There have been occasions when the kids have been alone with him when this has happend and they have not known what to do, this for them was terrifying and this is what prompted me to talk to them and show them what to do, and give them a telephone so that they can ring me or their grandparents or even an ambulance. Once they had this knowledge they were much happier.

I know that they are children and shouldnt have to deal with such things, but unfortunatley life isnt always that simple. Mabye your daughter would benefit with a cell phone so she could ring you when she feels the need.

For now i think your doing the best thing, give them knowlege as it helps you, it will help them too alateen would be great.

Mair

Growing

I completely agree with Lily:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak68
...I can't be around always and Mom always has her special drinks lying around.. ..emergency when I am not home.. ..She is to call me or get a neighbor to drive and under no condition is she ever to ride with Mom if she is drunk...

All this sounds very heavy for a child of her age. For example, if Mom is drunk and begins to get angry that she won't get in the car, do you really expect an 11yr old to defy their mom to this extent? IMHO I think she would cave, despite what you say. How is she supposed to prevent herself and her younger brother from getting in? Her mom is a giant compared to her (ever gotten down to a childs height and looked up?) and physically no match.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak68
...but mostly about what to do if the is the only "adult" around...

I would seriously think about changing your work pattern if possible or finding someone responsible to help with babysitting so to remove this problem. Please don't misinterpret me Zak, I know you are doing what you can, but as I learnt with my daughter, children cannot protect themselves, that is why we are here, IMHO they should not be put into the position of protecting themselves from their parent. You should be playing that part.


"If I ignored it and had not spoken to her about it and something happened where one of them got hurt as a result of my AW's drinking I couldn't live with myself."

I am glad you didn't ignore it and it is good that you talked to her about it. My point is that if "something happened where one of them got hurt as a result of my AW's drinking"
you cannot hold the children accountable for their choices and behavior. It would be you and your wifes responsibility. You can't hold the children, at this age, accountable for making the "right" choice in a crisis situation. They should not be left alone with a potentially harmful drunk. Continue to do the best you can to protect them from harm. Good luck with your choices in March. You do have choices.

ACOA is there for you to educate yourself on the effects alcoholism has on children. Specifically, the "13 characteristics of Adult Children". This is a sticky at the top of the acoa forum. After that, "The ACA Bill of Rights" is another great source for healing.

Peaches1_99

Zak: I feel for you. My children are 13 and 11 still young and still very affected by my AH actions and decisions.

It did come to a point where I had to ask for help from friends and family to make sure the children were safe.

Because I am not familiar with your work hours, support network, etc. I can only offer few suggestions. I have used many of these at various occassions to "keep the chicks safe" while I am out of the nest.

Do you have a boys & girls club in your town? What about after-school programs? Do the children have close friends that you are also friends with the parents? What about friends or relatives that could swoop in just to say "hi". I "mixed-it" up a bit so that my AH wouldn't get overly suspicious and yet was able to keep the kiddos safe.

I did finally have to have someone stay with us, because it got so bad... But, that is my story, and I am sure the circumstances are different.

I must say being honest with your kids is a good policy. They are both old enough to see the differences in mommy. Just be careful to remember they are kids not little adults. (which was VERY hard for me).

Take care, I will pray for you and your children.

GiveLove

Zak,

I wish you and your kids luck, strength, and peace in this rough time. I also commend you on leveling with them in a non-destructive manner.

Is there ANY way you can move up your timetable? Your wife is dangerous, and putting this degree of responsibility on an 11-year-old may make you feel somewhat better (i.e. "if anything happens I'd never forgive myself if I'd said nothing..."), but does not diminish the danger your children are in. As has been said, it's unlikely that either of your kids will be able to stand up to a raging drunk who's insisting they get in the car. And keep in mind that whatever fiscal reasons you have for biding your time may all be gobbled up by one major traffic accident, house fire, or stroke while you're waiting this out.

And as a child of alcoholics who received the same warnings from older siblings, I can tell you that the weight of responsibility has the potential to seriously screw up your daughter for many years if anything goes wrong. That's about as much as I want to talk about it, but please be careful. You're a good dad and I know you're trying to do the right thing. But....we've also read your stories and know a bit about your wife's situation. Hard not to worry.

Hugs to you,
GL

Daisy30

zak you inspire me

I know i need to do these things too...

I totally understand your situation and way to go for being honest with the kids.

Before I started my recovery, I gave my dd instructions to call me if AH left the house while I was gone. She had previously come to me and told me that AH had left her(10) and my other dd (1) home alone while he left "real quick". I was floored I had no idea it was happening. I now rarely leave.

I know it is difficult though....you can't be everywhere! I struggle with this all the time. I have 2 younger children who go to bed early and an older child who has evening commitements to attend. You can't have the A take her because they are drunk and if you leave the others you fear what will happen.

I have no answers...I can only relate

Thanks for inspiring me to be honest though

Lilyflower

It is tough, I know. I was a single parent before I began dating and living with my abf. I spent nearly 6 years juggling the job, my child, and various commitments. although I only had one to concern me, it can be done. Being in a relationship with an A can sometimes feel like being a single parent.

Lily xxxxxxx

fluffyflea

Hi,

Your kids would probably benefit from Ala-teen if you have it in your area.

Ngaire

Growing

I apologize in advance. I get fired up about the children at home with potentially harmful alcoholics...that is because I WAS ONE. I am glad SR and al-anon give me a voice...the voice I didn't have as a child.

I agree with everything GiveLove said.

Who speaks for the children in this situation?

Heres a hypothetical question: What would a court-ordered monitor/respresentative for the children have to say on their behalf about all of this?

Sometimes, we get too caught up in our day to day responsibilities to see the "big picture". Can't see the forest for the trees.

I'm finished now....sorry.