Living with a functional alcoholic
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Originally Posted by Barbara52 
One other thing to consider when their are children in the alcoholic family is that those children have an increased likelihood of themselves becoming alcoholics or other substance abusers in the future. Both my brothers are alcoholic, one of them in recovery for 20+ years, the other still in denial about it. There are many factors of course but statistically there is an increased risk.
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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It's interesting. My wife is very religious and I am not. At one point I was a very active and believing Christian and now I am an Aetheist. A few years back when I confronted her I begged her to talk to he bible study group or pastor, whom she loved dearly. She fought and fought me and said she would kick it and wanted nobody to know.
I tried to tell her the more people who know the more people who can help you when you are in need. I can't be there always and if you are stressed due to our marriage you need a person with whom you can share and get the support you need to stay sober. The more people I tried to bring into the equation the harder she fought me.
I honestly think had she let more people help in her recovery things would be different today. No one person can solve everything on their own. We need others to offer support when we are weak and give us strength when we need it most. For some it comes from faith, others find strength within but in the end we need that extra bit our friends and family can offer to heal us. This is her downfall in my mind, she tries to shoulder everything on her own and if she were able to look at herself objectively she would see how badly she is doing on her own.
I tried to tell her the more people who know the more people who can help you when you are in need. I can't be there always and if you are stressed due to our marriage you need a person with whom you can share and get the support you need to stay sober. The more people I tried to bring into the equation the harder she fought me.
I honestly think had she let more people help in her recovery things would be different today. No one person can solve everything on their own. We need others to offer support when we are weak and give us strength when we need it most. For some it comes from faith, others find strength within but in the end we need that extra bit our friends and family can offer to heal us. This is her downfall in my mind, she tries to shoulder everything on her own and if she were able to look at herself objectively she would see how badly she is doing on her own.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sunshine State
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RE: Anamchara's earlier question to me
I also want to add that for the foundational years of my life, my Mom's drinking was a not an issue. As a young child I had a happy, secure home life, free from alcoholic drama & trouble. I think that is worth noting.
I also want to add that for the foundational years of my life, my Mom's drinking was a not an issue. As a young child I had a happy, secure home life, free from alcoholic drama & trouble. I think that is worth noting.
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Thank you so much BohemiMama and others for sharing wisdom and insights. I greatly appreciate your honesty -and book recommendations too. I will look into them.
Zak,
After reading your last post, I cannot help but recall something I read years ago that was instrumental in facing my own denial (that I couldn't change him / shield him ):
"Isolation is the devil's playground"
you said you no longer believe in God, but since your wife does, I thought maybe it could be something to pass along....
Isolation enables the cycle of negative thinking and hopelessness to prosper.
Learning, owning that, became a key part of my recovery....my on-going journey toward healing.
anyway, I hope you didn't take offense that I am praying for you -
I certainly meant none =-)
Zak,
After reading your last post, I cannot help but recall something I read years ago that was instrumental in facing my own denial (that I couldn't change him / shield him ):
"Isolation is the devil's playground"
you said you no longer believe in God, but since your wife does, I thought maybe it could be something to pass along....
Isolation enables the cycle of negative thinking and hopelessness to prosper.
Learning, owning that, became a key part of my recovery....my on-going journey toward healing.
anyway, I hope you didn't take offense that I am praying for you -
I certainly meant none =-)
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 147
Anamchara I in now way find people praying offensive. While I no longer believe in gods by any name I don't find it offensive when those who do believe share their caring through worship and prayer. The heart of any religion in my mind is caring for others and helping your fellow man. While I don't profess faith I do care for others and try to be a good person and help others as I can.
I only wish my wife could see that those she attends church with would not look down on her for having this disease and their strength and fellowship could be the rock by which she beats this problem. I think she would be amazed at how many others struggle with similar issues and those who have opened up and shared their weakness only get stronger together. I tried to tell her this many times but the demon in the bottle keeps whispering in her ear that others will ridicule her and think ill of her if she were to ever show her weakness. It's a shame she can't use her faith gain the strength she needs to get better.
I only wish my wife could see that those she attends church with would not look down on her for having this disease and their strength and fellowship could be the rock by which she beats this problem. I think she would be amazed at how many others struggle with similar issues and those who have opened up and shared their weakness only get stronger together. I tried to tell her this many times but the demon in the bottle keeps whispering in her ear that others will ridicule her and think ill of her if she were to ever show her weakness. It's a shame she can't use her faith gain the strength she needs to get better.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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i'm sorry your family is so ravaged by addiction, zak. i feel a lot of anxiety reading your posts....your chaos reaches through the computer.
you seem pretty confused, which is completely to be expected. and you do not seem yet to have a good handle on reality. please make a massive push to educate yourself thoroughly about the disease of addiction, for you seem surprised, still, by behavior that is classic addict behavior. get informed, and you won't be so surprised anymore and you won't be looking for reasons (stress, etc) she does what she does.
when you are educated and grounded in reality, you won't be so afraid. you will be resolved to take action.
temporary separation is always a pragmatic beginning. it is good you are documenting.
all the very best to you in your anguish and hurt. please take good care of your family.
by the way: "reclaim your family from addiction" is the best book i know for your situation. the author is craig nakken. hazelden.
stay in touch with recovering people.
you seem pretty confused, which is completely to be expected. and you do not seem yet to have a good handle on reality. please make a massive push to educate yourself thoroughly about the disease of addiction, for you seem surprised, still, by behavior that is classic addict behavior. get informed, and you won't be so surprised anymore and you won't be looking for reasons (stress, etc) she does what she does.
when you are educated and grounded in reality, you won't be so afraid. you will be resolved to take action.
temporary separation is always a pragmatic beginning. it is good you are documenting.
all the very best to you in your anguish and hurt. please take good care of your family.
by the way: "reclaim your family from addiction" is the best book i know for your situation. the author is craig nakken. hazelden.
stay in touch with recovering people.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wales
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"get informed, and you won't be so surprised anymore and you won't be looking for reasons (stress, etc) she does what she does."
i couldnt agree more.
Zac, they will not change simple, only when they want to. Protect youself and your kids, you sound such a kind lovely person but it will eat you up and make you angry and bitter, your kids need you. keep reading and posting i GOT IT eventually and it gets easier.
Mair xx
i couldnt agree more.
Zac, they will not change simple, only when they want to. Protect youself and your kids, you sound such a kind lovely person but it will eat you up and make you angry and bitter, your kids need you. keep reading and posting i GOT IT eventually and it gets easier.
Mair xx
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
she doesn't wanna quit zak.........it's that simple. now you have to decide what YOU are going to do.......her choices are obvious........
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
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=) Thanks, I needed a little slap in the face. I am the type of person that tends to logically think everything out and over analyze everything. I would probably be here enabling for more years but deep down I really know what I need to be healthy.
My wife doesn't get internet friends and boards like this. I tried to tell her the beauty of things like this is we can bare our souls with little fear of being judged. I find it allows people to be more open and honest with themselves and others and lends itself to giving out advice that is simple yet mind blowing all at once.
I am glad I found this site. I hope one day to give wisdom to someone as you all have given it to me this day.
~ Zak
My wife doesn't get internet friends and boards like this. I tried to tell her the beauty of things like this is we can bare our souls with little fear of being judged. I find it allows people to be more open and honest with themselves and others and lends itself to giving out advice that is simple yet mind blowing all at once.
I am glad I found this site. I hope one day to give wisdom to someone as you all have given it to me this day.
~ Zak
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
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Originally Posted by Zak68
the beauty of things like this is we can bare our souls with little fear of being judged. I find it allows people to be more open and honest with themselves and others and lends itself to giving out advice that is simple yet mind blowing all at once.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
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Hey Zak! I've been going through the same thing you have. Married 16 yrs this June and we have 1 son who is 15. My AH left us in July and I have desperately tried to help him over and over again to no avail. It gets tiring I know. He finally decided to go back to treatment the day after Christmas. He got out 19 days later (why does any center think that's enough time to try to change the thinking of an addict/alcoholic?). The next night we went to a Celebrate Recovery meeting. I stayed for the praise and worship and then decided to leave (for my own personal reasons). He siad he was fine with that and I left. Hours later he calls me drunk, says it's because because I didn't stay for the group meeting. So here we go again. That was his third time in treatment and he obvioulsy still wasn't ready. They get your hopes up (which I know I shouldn't do) and then they crush them again. Before he left treatment I asked him to stay with his dad for a little while so we could try to work things out (counseling, AA, AlAnon, etc). He was ok with that then, but now it's a different story. Everything is always my fault.
I recently spoke with someone who runs a halfway house in our community. I told him about my husband and he told me, "You're not having a crisis with your husband, you're having a crisis with your faith". Maybe God is looking for you to lean on Him. It's hard but I think that's what he wants from us.
I hope things get better for you. I'm in the same position of being tired of helping but terrified of what might happen if I make a decision to do something.
Sue
I recently spoke with someone who runs a halfway house in our community. I told him about my husband and he told me, "You're not having a crisis with your husband, you're having a crisis with your faith". Maybe God is looking for you to lean on Him. It's hard but I think that's what he wants from us.
I hope things get better for you. I'm in the same position of being tired of helping but terrified of what might happen if I make a decision to do something.
Sue
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: California
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Zak, I am in a similar situation....very similar. My wife is doing well but has been living out of the house for the past 8 months. One of the reason's she has not hit "bottom" is because she is safe to function as an alcoholic in your home. She is "different" than the "harcore alcoholics" well...she's not. It will take time but slowly the bits that will make her a harcore alcoholic will come.......DUI, loss of job, people will begin to find out by her action or lack therof. Your wife hasn't reached the FIRST of many steps in getting better. She needs to admit she has a problem and is powerless over her addition! You can't get her to that point, her pastor can't get her to that point, the women's group can't get her to that point...only she can. The more you try to help....the longer it will take for her to get there. Additcts are like children, they will always take the easiest way....you are providing the easy choice...she doesn't have to DO anything. What you can control are your boundries. Do you want to live with an alcoholic, do you want your children to wath their mother be sick, unhealthy and and act in a way that can harm them? YOU need to do something for you and your children. She will NEED to make choices when YOU do! The best thing I ever did for me and my wife was set a boundry that our marriage and living conditions would not and could not continue with her as an alcoholic. It has been touch and go and we both did not know if we would make it but it looks good and I know we would NEVER have been at this point if I didn't ACT.
Hang in there and keep posting!!!
Hang in there and keep posting!!!
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 91
Similar Situation
Zak,
I'm in a very similar situation that you are. My wife is a functioning alcoholic too...and she even admits she drinks too much. For her, it's mostly beer or wine, but it is A LOT of it. She comes home every single night and will start drinking and within four hours she is pretty well lit. SHe works every day...does stuff at home...and fully functions...but there have been financial and other problems.
I used to count the drinks...I used to pour stuff out...I used to even go as far as to open beer or wine and pour it down the sink when she wasn't home. Her parents know she has a problem, but they won't say anything to her about it...although they have to me. Most of her friends also know, and many of them are functioning alcoholics too. One in particular, who drinks a lot but honestly isn't an alcoholic, has spoken to me about it at length and is very worried about her. But none of them will say anything to her because they know what a can of worms it will open.
She's very headstrong. And I've read a great many books on alcoholism and she meets nearly every single criteria in every single book.
We've fought and fought over it. Mostly, she blames me for her drinking. I've learned through going to therapy on my own that it's not my fault that she drinks. That doesn't make me like it any better....but I've learned to stop blaming myself. I've also learned to distance myself from her when she drinks....call it detachment...or whatever...and she notices it...but it doesn't stop her from drinking.
I've offered to help too....and finally I decided to get help for me because she won't get help for her. She has agreed to go to counseling with me...but I don't know if it's because she thinks she can help me...or is wanting to help herself...or is wanting to put on a big front/show...or wants to help us. I'm nervous about it because I just don't know what she is thinking or what her reasons for going are.
I'm in a very similar situation that you are. My wife is a functioning alcoholic too...and she even admits she drinks too much. For her, it's mostly beer or wine, but it is A LOT of it. She comes home every single night and will start drinking and within four hours she is pretty well lit. SHe works every day...does stuff at home...and fully functions...but there have been financial and other problems.
I used to count the drinks...I used to pour stuff out...I used to even go as far as to open beer or wine and pour it down the sink when she wasn't home. Her parents know she has a problem, but they won't say anything to her about it...although they have to me. Most of her friends also know, and many of them are functioning alcoholics too. One in particular, who drinks a lot but honestly isn't an alcoholic, has spoken to me about it at length and is very worried about her. But none of them will say anything to her because they know what a can of worms it will open.
She's very headstrong. And I've read a great many books on alcoholism and she meets nearly every single criteria in every single book.
We've fought and fought over it. Mostly, she blames me for her drinking. I've learned through going to therapy on my own that it's not my fault that she drinks. That doesn't make me like it any better....but I've learned to stop blaming myself. I've also learned to distance myself from her when she drinks....call it detachment...or whatever...and she notices it...but it doesn't stop her from drinking.
I've offered to help too....and finally I decided to get help for me because she won't get help for her. She has agreed to go to counseling with me...but I don't know if it's because she thinks she can help me...or is wanting to help herself...or is wanting to put on a big front/show...or wants to help us. I'm nervous about it because I just don't know what she is thinking or what her reasons for going are.
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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zak,
do you think you could print these questions and responses and show your wife? - maybe it would bring things to a head and let her know just how much her behavior is affecting everyone - denial is a pretty powerful defense mechanism - the love you feel for your wife is pretty powerful too...
good luck,
s
do you think you could print these questions and responses and show your wife? - maybe it would bring things to a head and let her know just how much her behavior is affecting everyone - denial is a pretty powerful defense mechanism - the love you feel for your wife is pretty powerful too...
good luck,
s
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by Zak68
I think they are all relying on me to get her help and with her fighting me tooth and nail I just don't see her letting me get her help.
The point is that no amount of "help" or love is going to stop the progression of alcoholism. Love does not conquer all.
When you talk about her and the stress that you try so hard to reduce for her it sounds to me as though you are the only adult in the house. At some point you have to step back and look at this from a different perspective. She is an adult, her life and responsibilities and "stress" are her own to deal with. I imagine being married and having children makes this very hard to see. You get married expecting a partnership and someone to love and support and count on. She is failing to even hold up her responsibility for her own life and she certainly isn't holding up her end of the marriage and family responsibility. Obviously I don't have any answers for you. All i know is you didn't cause it, you can't cure it. KEEP READING. In time you will have many more epiphanies.
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Asking why - I read your post and it reads like my life.
I did the same thing in the past and distanced myself when she was drunk. When we talked about her drinking she said I was judging her for her drinking and that made her drink more. Back then I felt bad and thought I was triggering her drinking. Now I realize it is not me, it is her. The help I have gotten has shown me that an A will blame everyone but themselves for their problem. She blamed stress in the marriage, she blamed finanaces (money is tight but we are by no means broke, just not financially where she wants to be), she blamed everyone and everything but herself. With that in mind I know the efforts I have made in the past were all in good faith and while I can keep trying and trying I can never save her. She is the only person who can save herself. I can help if she is truly motivated but it is nothing I can force upon her.
She also has a best friend in CO that is an A. I asked her to speak with her and her response was her friends life was more messed up than hers so she wasn't going to seek advice from her.
Hang in there. Sketscher talked about having an epiphany and I had mine in July. I stopped feeling guilty. I stopped blaming myself for not doing enough. Bottom line is I put blame where it belonged and started to move on with my life. I refocused on my health, my career and my kids. I started running and completed my first 5k last Fall and I am looking forward to the Spring when I can get back out to running. I also quit smoking. I looked at it as my stress relief and realized that was my personal cop out to not quit. I put the blame on me for smoking where it belonged.
Since then I have tried not to let it all get me down. I don't dwell on the negative and look forward to what is positive in my life. No way she is going to drag me and the kids down with her when she hits rock bottom. =)
I did the same thing in the past and distanced myself when she was drunk. When we talked about her drinking she said I was judging her for her drinking and that made her drink more. Back then I felt bad and thought I was triggering her drinking. Now I realize it is not me, it is her. The help I have gotten has shown me that an A will blame everyone but themselves for their problem. She blamed stress in the marriage, she blamed finanaces (money is tight but we are by no means broke, just not financially where she wants to be), she blamed everyone and everything but herself. With that in mind I know the efforts I have made in the past were all in good faith and while I can keep trying and trying I can never save her. She is the only person who can save herself. I can help if she is truly motivated but it is nothing I can force upon her.
She also has a best friend in CO that is an A. I asked her to speak with her and her response was her friends life was more messed up than hers so she wasn't going to seek advice from her.
Hang in there. Sketscher talked about having an epiphany and I had mine in July. I stopped feeling guilty. I stopped blaming myself for not doing enough. Bottom line is I put blame where it belonged and started to move on with my life. I refocused on my health, my career and my kids. I started running and completed my first 5k last Fall and I am looking forward to the Spring when I can get back out to running. I also quit smoking. I looked at it as my stress relief and realized that was my personal cop out to not quit. I put the blame on me for smoking where it belonged.
Since then I have tried not to let it all get me down. I don't dwell on the negative and look forward to what is positive in my life. No way she is going to drag me and the kids down with her when she hits rock bottom. =)
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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RE: Detaching from your "functional" A when they are drinking
When I began doing this as a teen & young adult with my A mom it helped. I didn't realize what I was doing, per se, at the time, because I hadn't read any books or gone to any meetings, I guess I found it thru trial & error. But when she was drinking I would leave the house if I could, or go to my room, shut the door, lock it if necessary and watch TV or listen to music. I would not get involved in A drama or fighting. Sometimes she would try talk or fight while drinking/drunk, but eventually she's give up. When I started doing this - it was so much better. Same thing with the phone calls: "Talk to you later when you're sober! Bye."
When I began doing this as a teen & young adult with my A mom it helped. I didn't realize what I was doing, per se, at the time, because I hadn't read any books or gone to any meetings, I guess I found it thru trial & error. But when she was drinking I would leave the house if I could, or go to my room, shut the door, lock it if necessary and watch TV or listen to music. I would not get involved in A drama or fighting. Sometimes she would try talk or fight while drinking/drunk, but eventually she's give up. When I started doing this - it was so much better. Same thing with the phone calls: "Talk to you later when you're sober! Bye."
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Join Date: May 2005
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There is so much wisdom and great information on here but another thing that helped me and continues to help me is watching "intervention" (the TV show). It really helps me step outside of the situation I was in. I also helps remind me that I never want to be in that place again. It can be depressing but it's a real eye opener.
The more you read, you'll see your story is sadly not unique. From my experience and from what I've read on here, addicts are indeed Masters of Manipulation. There is always some excuse, nothing is every their fault, stress, society, their parents, the police, the goody two shoes of the world are all to blame. They are quick to point out any fault of yours, they push buttons, they twist words, it's really all quite par for the course when it comes to dealing with an alcoholic. If you look at it from an outsiders view it's almost comical what they believe. From this inside it can drive you down right crazy.
The more you read, you'll see your story is sadly not unique. From my experience and from what I've read on here, addicts are indeed Masters of Manipulation. There is always some excuse, nothing is every their fault, stress, society, their parents, the police, the goody two shoes of the world are all to blame. They are quick to point out any fault of yours, they push buttons, they twist words, it's really all quite par for the course when it comes to dealing with an alcoholic. If you look at it from an outsiders view it's almost comical what they believe. From this inside it can drive you down right crazy.
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 91
It could start a whole new debate, but from my experience, if you are involved in a church, and tell people there you have a problem and ask for help, most always what they end up doing is gossiping about you and spreading rumors...instead of helping. OUt of 100, three might actually help, 72 will just gossip and tell everyone and 25 will keep to themselves....at least that's how it's been at most churches i have attended. I do go to church now...first time regularly in ten years...and i have found some peace and solace..and something makes me want to go back...but i keep to myself...and any prayer concerns i have are between me and my HP...not me and a congregation.
So, in a nutshell, she probably knows if she tells her church friends that it will get out...and she'll get those ugly stares like she's an alien at church from all the blue haired ladies on Sunday. She probably wants to hide this as much as she can except from those who really know her.
So, in a nutshell, she probably knows if she tells her church friends that it will get out...and she'll get those ugly stares like she's an alien at church from all the blue haired ladies on Sunday. She probably wants to hide this as much as she can except from those who really know her.
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Originally Posted by AskingWhy
It could start a whole new debate, but from my experience, if you are involved in a church, and tell people there you have a problem and ask for help, most always what they end up doing is gossiping about you and spreading rumors...instead of helping. OUt of 100, three might actually help, 72 will just gossip and tell everyone and 25 will keep to themselves....at least that's how it's been at most churches i have attended. I do go to church now...first time regularly in ten years...and i have found some peace and solace..and something makes me want to go back...but i keep to myself...and any prayer concerns i have are between me and my HP...not me and a congregation.
So, in a nutshell, she probably knows if she tells her church friends that it will get out...and she'll get those ugly stares like she's an alien at church from all the blue haired ladies on Sunday. She probably wants to hide this as much as she can except from those who really know her.
So, in a nutshell, she probably knows if she tells her church friends that it will get out...and she'll get those ugly stares like she's an alien at church from all the blue haired ladies on Sunday. She probably wants to hide this as much as she can except from those who really know her.
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