PhenLee

Hi there. This is my first post, I suppose I should also post an intro. somewhere, but I actually have spent several days reading through all posts - relating to so very many of them - and no intention of posting. Atleast not for a while. I got the sudden urge, so I'm going to run with it.

I could post the long drawn out story here, but you've all been through it before, so I'll do my best to summarize. Though as you know, this is a difficult task when you have an addict in your life...

I am in my 30's and the oldest of 5 children. My parents live in a different state with 3 of my siblings still living in the home. The 4th sibling lives on her own in a nearby town and is traveling down an unfavorable path of her own self-destruction but is in total denial and I have already detached myself from her.

BOTH of my parents are alcoholics. My mother is a closet drinker - goes through periods of several months of sobriety and then suddenly drinking again - though if you ask her - she's not drinking at all. While she is drinking, she does it at home and her worst drunken traits are slightly slurring her speech and repeating herself over an over during conversations. For the most part, she's just annoying. Am, I condoning it? NO! Just trying to paint a mental picture. My father on the other hand, over the course of the last 10-15 years has been in bar fights, had a dui, often gets kicked out of bars, is nasty/bitter/rude and problematic at home (when he comes home from the bars) and most recently went on a 3 day disappearance act, which after contacting, jails, hospitals, hotels, police and credit card companies, we learned he took himself on a vacation of sorts - to the beach - and during his drunk escapade managed to find himself a drunken lady to keep him company...(if you catch my drift).

Since Mom & Dad are both drinking and the other sister is off in her own land (seriously, she doesn't even know what has happened most recently and she only lives 30 minutes away), it leaves myself and my other (sober) sister to do our best to pick up the pieces. Frankly, I'd sooner let my parents duke it out themselves, if it weren't for the fact that I have 2 brothers 13 & 15 still living at home through all of this.

Currently, my father is staying god-knows-where (last I heard, sleeping in his car in his job parking lot - though I have to say, he's really pulling out the pity card for himself whenever he can talk to someone in the house - so who knows for sure). This is the first time my mother has let it be known that he is not welcome home. Though, honestly, I'm sad to admit that I truly believe that it's because of his philandering episode and not the rest of the 3 day binge he scared us all with. He made a 30 minute appearance to the house yesterday (while my mother was not home) and took it upon himself to make some phone calls he could have easily made himself somewhere ELSE - but he decided to do it in front of my brothers. One call to the insurance company to see what form of rehab/therapy would be covered and the other call to respond to an add in a local paper looking for a roommate. He even had my 13 year old brother help him on the computer look up the roommate site...In my opinion, he popped into the house to get attention. He also involved my brothers in something that they dont need to be dealing with. Then of course, he took off and has yet to be seen or heard from again. (which is fine by me)

*noting now, that this is not a short post....sorry!*

I have a serious problem with my father involving my brothers in his attention-seeking pity party. I know that my mother is not strong enough to keep him out of the house for long and my younger sister (while totally having the best intentions at heart) has bought into his b.s. and thinks that maybe if he "has a little positive reinforcement, it will be easier for him to get the help he needs". My take on this situation is that he clearly doesn't realize how serious his problem is if he can just go back to work and pop into the house the way he did and seek out attention and pity from anyone around him. I think that if he gets any type of positive reinforcement it's only going to prolong the start of his recovery (if any). I think he needs to be cut off...that we need to stop answering his calls, stop responding to him, stop showing any emotion towards him at all when he does "pop in" and just go on with life without him until he realizes he doesn't have any more allies and doesn't have anyone to unload on anymore and that we will not be his punching bag. However, my sister being a bit younger and the sweet girl that she is, doesn't have the heart to do this. My mother, being weakened by the whole ordeal and having her own demons to fight (though totally in her own denial) doesn't have the strength to do it either. As I understand it, she has already brought his things back into the house, after having dumped most of them in the garage after the 3 day fiasco.

Quite honestly, I am in a very good place in my life, I have an awesome son and a wonderful man in my life. I live a happy, healthy lifestyle (have always been anti-drug and not a big drinker at all) and I SO don't want to deal with this drama. But, being a mother, and loving my brothers, I can't just turn away and not be sick with worry about how this is effecting them and what I might be able to do to help them through it. If my parents don't want to help themselves, I'm fine with that, I got over that years ago. I am not, however, dealing well with the thought of walking away and leaving my brothers to deal with this on their own. I also worry about mys sister who worries herself sick trying to help our father when he's clearly not ready to make the change. She knows she's setting herself up for disappointed, but she just cant' give up, "just incase". I emailed her inviting her to this forum, perhaps she'll hop on here and read through some posts that will help her through this as well. Maybe she'll even post in this thread. She'll know which one it is...

But my brothers...shot of calling DCFS, which belive me, I have considered...but then what? They end up in foster care? I do not have a home big enough to take them in or the resources to move to a bigger place just yet. A year from now, maybe, but not yet...so I can't bring them here, though I'm dying inside, wishing I could.

How do you detach from the destructive members of the family without removing yourself from the ones that need you?

Miss Pink

i do it thru the love, lessons and learning from alanon. give it a try...the solution is there, hun. hang in there, u are not alone!!!

Growing

Welcome PhenLee,

Thank you for sharing and I hope you keep coming back.

"BOTH of my parents are alcoholics. "

"How do you detach from the destructive members of the family without removing yourself from the ones that need you?"

I agree with Miss Pink: You do it in al-anon and adult children of alcoholics meetings and on this forum. Just keep coming back and you will be fine.

I am an adult child of 2 alcoholics. My dad died an alcoholic. My mom is sober but a "dry drunk" most days, meaning she is not working her program, and the "atmosphere" is still one of "drunkeness" because she has traded alcohol for emotional relationships with men...so you can see how devastating this is for me with my brother at home.

I love my brother...would do anything for him...I have told him so and he has my number.

I have detached in love from both of them...can't have my brother without my mom...believe me...he is getting screwed up and it shows alot..but I am POWERLESS.
My mom and brother are in my Higher Powers hands..I haven't given up on them...I just know they need professional help and I am not a professional no matter how much, or how "capable" I am of loving them.

I am an ACOA and I struggle with the desire to "rescue" my brother...but with al-anon, acoa or SR...I gain strength for not losing myself. When I rescue, I disappear....

hope2bhappy

I have never been in a situation like this, but my heart goes out to you. This is all so sad. Given their young ages, I would probably call DCFS. Foster care would have to be better than what they live with now. But I have no experience in this area. I am not an ACOA.

NMillis

get the kids some support, like al-anon. I sure wish someone wouldve done that for me!

cmc

Welcome to SR. As you see there are many here who understand your situation.
Alateen is a wonderful program for your brothers, and I highly recommend Alanon for any adult who has alcoholic family members.

Barbara52

One of the best things you can do for your brothers is to help them get into AlAteen and support them by letting them know that they are living in a dysfunctional home. Let them know they are not responsible. Let them know they are very much loved. Let them know that you care and want to help them.

Growing up in my alcoholic home has messed me up in oh so many ways. Your brothers are already suffering and learning all the behaviors that have screwed up all of us ACOAs. Give them the tools they need to get thru this. It will help them.

You can't do a whole lot from the distance but you can help them some by communicating with them by phone and helping them find resources near them that they can use.

PhenLee

Thank you all so much. I have been talking to my brothers much more on the phone lately and they have been opening up to me, which is a big step, considering the oldest one has been becoming increasingly more withdrawn and never liked to talk about it much. He'd try to push me off the phone in previous months if I even brought it up. Yesterday, we spoke for over an hour and he did most of the talking.

I actually looked up Alateen meetings last night and found a few that are very close to them. I spoke to each of my brothers individually this morning and they both eagerly agreed to go to meetings. I didn't have to do too much convincing, they BOTH seemed VERY willing and ready to go. I then spoke to my sister that lives at home and while we were on the phone, she hopped online to look up the dates and times of the meetings and is willing to take the boys and go herself. I am aware that I can not save them. I just want to assure them that they make their own choices and that all they can do is choose to work on themselves and their own lives and focus on being has healthy as they can be given the circumstances. I am hopeful that directing any "positive reinforcement" to my brothers, rather than my mother or father, maybe worth the effort. *fingers crossed*

I know my mother's work schedule and I think at this point, I will try my best to reach out to my brothers the best I can from afar and try to do so, when my mother won't be around to answer the phone. I truly have no issue detaching from my mother or my father, but I don't have the heart to let two good boys, that have thus far, despite the odds, NOT found themselves involved with the wrong crowd, have maintained good grades in school and still have a hopeful future ahead of them. I know that they will ultimately choose their own paths as well, but at this point - they do not want to live this life and feel stuck and I can't turn my back on them knowing this.

I have taken the suggestion of going to meetings myself to heart. However, I almost feel silly to go. I'm sure that many of the people there are probably struggling with bigger issues than me having the desire to help my brothers. I will be okay. Is this situation ideal? No! Do I wish I had a 'normal' family? Aboslutely. But, you can't pick your family, and I need to live my own life...which is what I've been doing and why I prefer not to live closeby. I have never gone to any meetings, so I don't know what to expect. I just don't want to walk in and find myself feeling a little misplaced, if that makes any sense!??

Also, are there any good books for teenage boys on this subject that any of you might be able to recommend?

cmc

My first time at a meeting was wonderful and I felt right at home. There are all kinds of people there but the thing they do have in common is that all are affected by an alcoholic friend or family member. I think you will be pleasantly surprised and encouraged. It's something you can do for yourself.
At the meetings there is literature and other resources available for you and your brothers too.
Walking into an Alanon meeting may seem intimidating or strange at first but the way they are set up provides a safe environment to learn, share or just sit quietly and listen if that is your preference. No judgements are made and everyone shares from their own experience. I hope you will give it a try.

PhenLee

Thanks for the insight into your first meeting. I am considering it. I'll admit, I'm hesitant, but I am considering it. I have heard from a few acquaintances in the past and through reading through forums that there is a religious aspect of the program. Is that right? I am agnostic. While I understand that I could "substitute" the higher power referred to in the program, and I fully respect everyone's beliefs and views, I prefer not to engage in discussions about "god" or "prayer" or expecting either to solve my problems. Is that what it's like, or does everyone for the most part keep their religious beliefs more private?

*I hope this wasn't too touchy to ask, I certainly am not trying to show any disrespect, just wondering because I will not be comfortable in a situation where these things are often referenced. The last time I had to go to church (for someone's wedding) I felt like I was melting....I was very uncomforatable.*

Growing

There are people in my al-anon meetings, who have said that they are agnostic.

Some keep their beliefs private and some don't. If you want your beliefs respected, you have to respect other peoples beliefs, ect.

"I hope this wasn't too touchy to ask, I certainly am not trying to show any disrespect, just wondering because I will not be comfortable in a situation where these things are often referenced. The last time I had to go to church (for someone's wedding) I felt like I was melting....I was very uncomforatable."

No disrespect taken...We are just trying to help eachother...Glad you are here!

The question might be, have you been comfortable on SR? HP, God and Prayer are typed often here in the posts and threads. There is a "Secular Connections" section of SR and I know they could help you with these questions, as well.

PhenLee

I have been very comfortable here. I didn't articulate that quite well I guess. I don't have any problems hearing those words, I just didn't know if the program encourages prayer and god as being the answer to the probem. If that is the case, I feel like I would not achieve much, since that's not what I use to cope with things. Does that make sense? It's not that I have any uncomfortable feelings with hearing people discuss that they pray or use their beliefs to get through their problems, my family is catholic, my grandmother tells me she prays for all of us everytime I speak with her and sends me prayer cards in the mail that I keep in my room and I even have the St. Christopher Metal on the sun visor of my car that she sent me 15 years ago. (just incase!) I suppose my mentioning that I am not comfortable in a situation where these things are referenced should have been more along the lines of me not be comfortable where these things are referenced as the answer, and the solution. Like, if I don't "believe" I can't find the answer type of thing.
Hope that helps clarify a little. Thanks for asking the way you did, I realize now how that came across and didn't mean it that way at all. Though, I always have been uncomfortable in churches, even as a child...and nothing bad ever happened, just the way I am I suppsose.

Barbara52

That may be the case in some groups but is not the focus of the group as a whole.

Nope.

The references to a Higher Power are whatever you envision that higher power to be. AlAnon is not a religous program, a faith based program as most would understand it.

And remember, one of the sayings you hear at AlAnon and hear is "Take what you need and leave the rest."

PhenLee

Thanks! I guess maybe that's my problem. I don't think I have a higher power. All my life, I've just taken it one day at a time and never really looked to anyone or anything to give me the answer or guide me through it. It's always just been me. I know that probably sounds ridiculous.


THIS I already really, really like!

Barbara52

Not ridiculous at all. Its your belief and valid for you.

Try thinking of it in terms of the fact that there are things, events, people in life that we have no control over. When AlAnon talks about turning things over to your HP its a way of accepting that fact. It means recognizing where you have no control over somethings and choose to leave those things in the hands of the Great Grand Whazoo of the Universe.

BTW, taking things one day at a time is another bottom line attitude here and in AlAnon.

PhenLee

Thank you so much. That puts things in a much greater perspective for me. I appreciate you taking the time to take me through this. I will look into the meetings in my area and also press on for my sister to help my brothers get to the Alateen meetings (which I would have done regardless).

Thanks to all of you that have replied with your kinds words and difficult stories.

good_luck

Hey, I just wanted to add that different alanon groups have different characters. My first meeting was very Jesus-y, but I eventually found one that fit me better. Just wanted to add that, in case your first experience was like mine. I'd hate to see that discourage you for good!

FormerDoormat

I have learned through Alanon and SR that change is the answer to my problem. Some people rely on help from a higher power; others don't and that's their perrogative.

The best part about Alanon and SR is that I get to take what I want and leave the rest. So I help myself to big portions of Alanon and SR and I leave very little because IMHO it's all good.

Why not give it a try?

mushroom

Phen Lee, like you, I was raised in a Catholic household, with dysfunctional parents. I grew up believing that I am all alone in the whole universe, and became an atheist because I was told in no uncertain terms that even God didn't love me because I didn't follow the rules of my parents and their religion. As I grew up, I could see that every organized religion is a man-made creation whose rules of belief are designed to keep women in line, and I wanted no part of any of that.

So I shared your hesitations to attend 12 step meetings - they're most all held in churches after all, and there's all that talk of higher powers and the serenity prayer and all that stuff. Control issues! I've got 'em. Major trigger for me. But, I got so desperate after a while that I went anyway.

Here is what I've decided after a few years of these meetings and this forum. As very small children, we build our image of God from our parents. Mine were worthless and useless - they formed no emotional attachment to me and gave me as little care as they could get away with. I might as well have been in an orphanage. So for me there was no God - how could there be, when my parents didn't fill the role that children build their image of God off of? And it's that spiritual emptiness, that being totally alone in the universe, that drove me into my own dysfunction - codependency and the whole laundry list of ACOA traits. Others react to the same situation by becoming addicts.

Lots of people struggle with the spiritual aspects of the 12 step programs, but I believe that it's that lack of spiritual connection that is the source of our problems, and the struggle is part of recovery. Organized religion is not the same thing at all, although I know many people who use church membership as their path to their higher power. I can't do that and don't want to and don't believe it's necessary. It is very hard to find that spiritual connection, but that organized path just won't work for me. None of the Alanon or ACOA groups I've gone to have been churchy, although all have met in churches! there are people who are obviously of the church-going persuasion, but it's not a group thing.

All that the programs say, is that you will come to believe that there is a higher power than yourself. That higher power can be whatever you need it to be - the conventional christian image of god, or Jesus; Krishna, Gaia, Buddha, a book, a tree, or even your dog. Anything, except another human being. I can't tell you what mine is because I'm not there yet. It's hard work, building a higher power from scratch! but the conventional images I see around me are too limited by their human creators - not high or powerful enough to help me. I can see where I need to go, and I see many many people struggling with the same thing, but everyone has to find their own path. I hope you find yours.

PhenLee

Wow, Mushroom. Thank you for that. We seem to have quite a bit in common. While my parents always cared for me well in terms of physically, we were certainly lacking in the emotional department. No hugging, no i love you's, etc. I remember when my mother told me she loved me on the phone about 5 years or so ago and I froze with this strange feeling before I could return the words. It was just so strange, I didn't know what to say.

Also not having followed the religion, and choosing not to baptize my son, etc. I have been told similar things as well about my fate. Growing up, my mother didn't go to church very often though, holidays mostly...However, in the last few years she's becoming quite involved. I honestly think it's her own way of justifying what's wrong in her life. Afterall, she can't be a bad person if she is active in church, right???.....

I haven't even looked into meetings, but am really glad to hear they are not what I was expecting at all. At least not in entirety. I actually have been too busy to research it, or come to this forum the last few days. Which is a good thing really, because I've also been too busy to focus on my family as well. Kinda nice, really!

I've had some long talks with my sister and we are both going to do what we can to step back and let my parents fend for themselves and just concentrate on keeping ourselves healthy and happy. My brothers, I have made much more of an effort to reach out to and they seem to be coping better than expected (and in a genuine way, not like they are covering up the pain).

Side Note: My father had an appointment this morning for his evaluation to see how intense his outpatient treatment plan needs to be. Atleast, I think he did. I heard about this on friday via my sister but have not even picked up the phone to call him. Nor, do I plan to. Time will tell, I guess...but I'm not keeping my hopes up, or expecting the worst, I'm just not going to think much of it at all. I've come to the realization many years ago that I have no power over my parents problems. It's my brothers that I've struggled with leaving behind. I don't think I'll be able to do that, nor do I want to. They have so much potential and I think they really need the positive energy and support from the few family members that are leading fairly normal lives!