BoiledFrog

I am having a hard time figuring my Ah's parents out. I do now believe that they both have some sort of alcohol dependency problem. They are very together people and their lives are not in chaos. Before they retired they held down jobs and didn't job hop, their house is like a new pin, they don't have a lot of money but their finances are under control. But I've seen the amount of booze that H's dad can sink. H's mum only yesterday, when I decided to take red wine with dinner having at first thought I would have white like she was having, said "oh good I can have this bottle to myself and get tight - like I was hoping I could" This last phrase said in a way that sounded somehow like she deserved to after the day she'd had. She'd had a perfectly lovely day being spoiled to death by everyone because it was her birthday. But of course that makes it an "emotional" day so she deserves to get tight because she's had such an emotional day. She above all is the one who will continually refer to alcohol as some sort of panacea. Is it possible for two people to have a happily co-dependent relationship? That's what appears to be the case with these two.

Lilyflower

JMO but I suppose if neither of them expects/wants better out of life, or out of each other they may be happy. They seem to have found a rut that works for them. Some people just simply do not want to grow spiritually or even worse- don't think they need to.

Lily

Barbara52

My parents were both alcoholics, argued constantly, abused us kids but never wanted to change. They did love each other in their own disfunctional way and stayed together. They seemed happy to live that way. {shrug}

CBrown

I think so. My XABF went back to his XGF and it seems to be working. I have heard "he's doing his best to **** her off" which means he belittles her in public, criticizes her every move, and is controlling. And that's besides the alcoholism. She, on the other hand, seems to enjoy being taken care of in exchange for putting up with it all. It's like some love/hate, sadism/martyrdom thing. Meanwhile, there's her 19 year old angry son watching it all, teetering on the brink of going to prison. I refused to be her replacement, and they're welcome to each other!

denny57

Yes, I think it's possible. The happiness, IMO, must come from within, though, for each person. In other words, I don't believe I could have talked myself into being happy living with MY alcoholic. I wanted something different.

BoiledFrog

The two of them are very bound up in each others/their own emotions the whole time. That is their life. I was brought up in a household where emotions were treated the way you'd treat the weather. Rainy day - heyho best just get on with it - or - Sunny day great lets have a picnic. In addition to which it was nobody else's business.

Their whole focus is on making each other happy. Or on making someone else happy. Which is a nice thing I guess but very enmeshed. You can't MAKE someone else happy.

We went to the park the day after Christmas so my son could try out his new in-line skates. My daughter (6) was upset because her skates were still broken and despite his best efforts H hadn't managed to fix them. When we got to the park S was flying his new helicopter and I fancied giving the skates a go. FIL looked disapproving at me and said "don't you think that'll re-open the wound" meaning that my daughter might get upset again. I know what he means but to me this is SO wrong. Why does everyone else have to sink to someone else's level if they are having a bad day. Why can't the others be allowed to get on with enjoying their lives and hopefully the upset person will get over themselves and join in. Which is in fact what happened. I am not completely insensitive or lacking in empathy. I comforted my daughter and empathised with how she was feeling, but after that I left her to get on with it.

I can't help believing it is this kind of thinking that led to H using alcohol to fix himself in the first place. He was obviously never given the opportunity as a child to learn to manage his own emotions and deal with life's ups and downs without outside help.

Barbara52

Whether its one of the reasons or not, I think this is a very common mistake people make.

Protecting one's children or adults around me doesn't allow them to grow and learn how to deal with all that life will throw at them. It actively prevents people from learnign healthy behaviors and to deal with adversity.

chrisea

I was thinking something a little different, a few weeks ago... what it would be like if 2 Takers had a first date??? See I came to realize that the truly long lasting happy relationships, are between 2 givers ~ best friends, for each other. So would that even be possible, for a taker to ask another taker for a date. Like who would buy the booze, lol

I take nothing for granted. I now have only good days or great days.

Growing

It is possible for a codie/alkie to be happy together:

My mom and dad, both alcoholics, and yes, they were "happy". They were happy making eachother miserable and I think they enjoyed it. Neither would ever leave the other. Dad was the big bad A and mom was the classic doormat enabler..she would even buy his bottles. Mom became an alcoholic trying to be dads drinking buddy. Too bad they beat eachother up/half killed eachother. What a life. What a marriage. But they were *satisfied* with eachother, believe me...My mom enabled him right up to his death. How do you buy a bottle for a dying man? I don't know but mom does.

Miss Pink

Yes.

Its called denial.

BoiledFrog

I agree. My H clearly grew up in world completely filled with denial. A topsy-turvy Alice-through-the-looking-glass type of world where nothing can be taken at face value. Everything is double-speak. "Don't make me anything to eat I'm fine" really means please pull out all the stops and make the finest meal you can to tempt me down from my high-horse so I can eat and enjoy myself. It drives me crazy. Not only does it drive me crazy because I don't understand a word he's saying, it drives me crazy because he doesn't understand me being straight. He second-guesses me, makes assumptions and believes I mean the exact opposite of what I say.

Since our talk on Christmas eve he has been moderating his drinking. I've no idea whether it is possible for him to do this in the long-term. I really think he does need some outside help. He is now drinking only a couple of glasses of wine with his meal and no more. It already seems to have changed him a little. He is spending more time around us and less distant. Conversations almost seem like talking to a normal person. I am distrustful of this - I think it is a mirage.

BoiledFrog

Well we had another heart to heart about everything. I was on the point of leaving before Christmas. We managed to avert trashing everyone's Xmas and stick it out. On Xmas eve AH promised said "are you making me choose between you and drinking?" and I said yes. I kind of wish I hadn't because that wasn't the whole story. Anyhow he quit, but because he just looked so damn miserable and I felt like if he stopped his parents would have to stop and - yes even I- would have to stop we kind of made an agreement that to get through Xmas he would drink a couple with dinner but no more. So that is what he did. He has been looking for validation from me - trying to be really nice to me and obviously wanting to know "did I do good?" but I haven't been forthcoming. I haven't been forthcoming because I know this is only the very beginning. Actually leaving seemed like the easier option, then struggling forward through recovery with him.

Anyway today he couldn't take any more of my nonchalent attitude. I wouldn't describe it as stony silence - that's just not me - just polite and friendly but not loving. We had a full on talk. He couldn't really get where I was coming from which I suppose is because I am starting the road to recovery and he isn't yet. It eventually boiled down to me saying that I really needed some time and space to build myself back up again and distractions like worrying about how he was feeling couldn't help with that process.

He is convinced he still loves me and that I no longer love him. To me it is way more complicated than that. If he has loved me all this time then he's got a funny way of showing it. But he's right that I don't really feel like I love him. I've no idea whatsoever whether I would love him if he was sober. And I pretty much told him that. I also told him (and he understands this because of his numerous attempts at giving up smoking) that the reason I wasn't jumping around shouting whoopee-do when he said he would give up was the same reason I told to start smoking again last time he tried giving that up. It is even more painful and difficult to live with him without his crutches than with them.

So he accepted that reason. He says his plan is to continue drinking moderately until 1 Jan, and then to have a dry January. If he can't make it then he will seek help. And I asked him - what if you can make it? He said then I guess I don't need to drink any more, but maybe I will have a glass or two from a nice bottle of wine for a special occasion.

I've no idea whether this is possible - it doesn't seem to fit the model - I don't believe in magical thinking where he's the 1 in 1000 drunk that can climb down from consuming somewhere near 100 units of alchohol a week to zero and then be able to have the odd glass of wine when it suits him. I would be very happy for him if this is the case but I can't help thinking he's deluding himself.

SaTiT

My father drinks like a fish..my mother loves me to death.
They're still together. They have their crazy moments
and i have alot of my moment.lol

I don't know..they seem happy together for the most part.

That's what confuses the **** out of me.lol

nowinsituation

Boiled Frog - I am no expert for sure; but you are right to be skeptical. I'll throw out another scenario for you: what if he does not make it through January, but claims that he did?? You do have at least one thing going for you -- you are still communicating, hopefully honestly. You are smart not to delude yourself, and you should be prepared with a Plan B (sorry to rain on your parade)!!

BoiledFrog

Hi Now,
It's ok you are not raining on my parade. You are quite right that it is possible he could sneak his way through January. But I do think I would know. He is a very different animal when he's not drinking. Hence the communication we are now having - I know he was still drinking when these conversations took place but he was drinking very modestly and we were able to have far better communication than any time in the last 8 or 9 years.

I had my plan in place before he agreed to give up. I am keeping that plan in place. There is no way I am going back to the place I was before.

Happy New Year - especially to those of you who need it most.