hbb

I think there'sa difference between being sad and hurt and being sick, yes i need to work on me but i dont think i was sick to enter this relationship. I'm not saying that was directed towards me. I wish i had half the strength as most of you have, i'm working on me weekly in therapy. I'm sad, mad, and pretty much depressed about this and know i shouldn't be. It's like one thing after another after another. I think it's one thing to go through an A leaving horribley but then to hear that he's having a kid with his ex whom supposedly "did him the biggest favor by leaving him" or he wouldn't have met me, it hurts bad. I know i should chalk it up to he's a person who has alot of issues and uses bad behavior drinking or not. I am trying to force myself to keep him out of my head but it's hard especially this time of year.

Earth ~ I don't think i'm a victim, some may disagree, i'm coping the best way i can. He dragged me through the mud and then spit on me pretty much and i know some say "i allowed it", i didn't allow any of it. It was done behind my back and found out after the fact. I know it happens everyday but never did i think things would go this badly in the end.

I know i need to open my eyes to new people and places. It's hard though when I cry at the very thought of him and him passing me the other day like i wasn't even there, like i didn't exist really makes me take a step back.

denny57

It's a choice. Wake up every day and wallow in misery or see the joy that is everywhere.

LaTeeDa

Yep, this was me exactly when I first came to SR. I supported our family, did all the housework, made sure my kids got to places they needed to go, etc. I was not dependent on him in any way--or so I thought.

I read Codependent No More THREE times before it began to sink in to my thick skull. I was so deep in denial after 20 years that I just knew everyone here was wrong about me. None of it was my responsibility--it was all him. And I was the poor, poor victim of his toxic behavior.

What I've learned over the past 2+ years, with the help of many books, a counselor, and lots of straightforward honest people here on this board, is that I was dependent on him in many ways. I (believed I) needed him to complete me. I needed to be needed so badly that I was willing to sacrifice my own happiness. I feared abandonment so badly that I wanted to avoid it at all costs. I felt that if my marriage failed, I FAILED. I was so wrapped up in the fantasy US that I completely abandoned the real ME.

Since I finally let go of my husband, and more importantly the fantasy future I had created in my mind, I have dated two men. What a revelation it has been. The first guy I dated told me everything (he thought) I wanted to hear. How beautiful I am, how much he wanted to be with me, how he could see a future together for us. All this after only four dates. But I noticed subtle little things about him, like saying things "jokingly" that were really insults. Or dismissing my opinion as "silly." And I found myself overlooking these little things because he was so sweet and had so many admirable qualities. Then one day I realized that I was slipping into my old pattern of ignoring the red flags because I wanted so much to feel like I was special to someone else. That's when I noticed the big tattoo on his forehead, LOL.

The second guy I dated, I am still seeing. I feel like a totally different person now. I can picture my future with him, but I can also picture it without him. And, either way, it's good. We see each other once or twice a week and have been for at least six months now. There is no hurry. We have so much fun together. He values my opinion even when he doesn't agree. He is honest with me even when it is not what I want to hear. He cares about my dreams and goals, but does not try to do them for me. He listens to me when I want to talk about my problems, but he doesn't try to fix them.

I don't believe I just "got lucky" and found a nice guy. It was me who changed. I learned to spot the red flags. I learned that I am worthy of respect and kindness and not so desperate that I need to accept less. If I had continued to believe that I was a victim of my A, I probably would have ended up in a relationship with that first guy. Then I would be back here whining about why this keeps happening to me.

It's hard to take responsibility. And it's not the same as blaming ourselves. I like to think of it as learning from my mistakes. If I refuse to believe I made a mistake, then I will not learn a dang thing.

Sorry for the ramble. I guess this thread triggered me.

L

SaTiT

It gets more simple and clearer as each moment I experience.
I love myself no matter what, through all of it.

It's like living a meditation for me. it's just taking longer
than 15 mins.
The endless parade rivers of thoughts and emotions.
First I'll try to control them, then i learned to just let it flow.
cease fighting it.
Eventaully the parade comes to an end.
Eventaully I come to a moment of peace in the presence.
In the presence of god, life..some would say.
I'm just living it in the rythem of life.

The process of struggle is powerful so I've read.
As a butterfly struggle to get out of the cacoon.
If you enterupt this process and touch the butterfly's wing.
The butterfly will never spreads it's wing and fly.

i just feel crazy sometimes during this struggle..that's all.
But my feelings are not fact...so I've learned lately.

like lateeda say ..there's no room.
mmmm...I'm not avaliable at the moment for any romance relationship.
Wheather i'm sick or not. i just know i have to love myself no matter what.

hbb

I completely relate to this. This is/was me with J and my last serious relationship. I loved "taking care of him" because it meant i didn't have to focus on me, i realize that and admit it completely. I loved that he almost needed me and that he loved and couldn't believe the things i did and helped him with. He would say, "my ex would never have done that" or "no one has ever treated me so well like you have". But for what, to get $hit on in the end? I didn't do ANY of it to get anything in return. I guess it was too much to ask for respect in return. I don't think respect is too much to ask from anyone on this earth.

I'm not saying doing any of the above was right, but it made me happy to be in love with somone so much that at the time i thought they appreciated me or i never would have done the whole bank fiasco either. In my opinion he was genuine and maybe he was but could no longer "be that person" that he's not. I no longer expect anything FROM him but it does sadden me to think that he's just moved on, doesn't care about poor treatment of others and on his merry way.

LaTeeDa

That's awesome that you recognize those tendencies. Now, how will you go about changing them? Because I can almost guarantee that you will not find somebody who you can "take care of" who will appreciate it and reciprocate. That is not what healthy relationships are about. It was a difficult and painful process for me to figure out why I thought that way. But, wow, the results have been amazing. Keep up the work you are doing with your counselor, and maybe mention this caretaking thing and see where it goes. You're on the right track, keep on trudging.........

L

geees poncho

DITTO DITTO DITTO leaveing #3 I feel like the BIGEST DUMBEST SUCKER/JERK ON THE PLANET. I have been moving out of my little dream house in the woods, that I lost because of her spending/useing habits.
And while walking up the stairs with my hands full of odds & ends, I had a vission of Steve Martin, moving out of his house in THE JERK, made me chuckle, HA HA what a jerk.

SaTiT

it's like a paradox or ironic in a way through all of this.

There was one thing that i was sure of..it was that i love her
through thick and thin

well...today..there's onething that I'm getting more and more
assure of is that, I love myself through thick and thin.

CBrown

"If you're not dependent on your partner, why does he still take up so much room in your head?" Don't assume he does. Taking up space to me is if I obsess over "why" or "what did I do?" or plotting revenge or something of the sort. If I relate stories about him on here, it is to improve my own life through example or to maybe help some other poor soul on here. If we had a "our XAs can never take up space in our minds" none of us could post on SR.

To tell me that I am "codependent", which IMHO is an overused, dumb term unless you are a person who simply can't function without your A, is to throw a blanket term on me. I consider a lot of people who post on here as farther along in their journey, and they still relate stories about what happened to them. Does that make them codependent? No. They're just trying to lead by example.

As for a TOXIC tattoo, we can't assume that every woman would fall for a toxic man if he had the tattoo. I sure wouldn't. Would you? And I doubt Lacey knew Scott was toxic until it was too late. Sheesh, psychopaths hide their evil pretty well, so that everyday healthy people don't always catch onto it right off the bat. If psychologists don't, how can we laypeople? I still say a tattoo would help a lot of people who get sucked in. Of course I'm not serious about doing such a thing.

I (believed I) needed him to complete me. I needed to be needed so badly that I was willing to sacrifice my own happiness. I feared abandonment so badly that I wanted to avoid it at all costs. I felt that if my marriage failed, I FAILED. I was so wrapped up in the fantasy US that I completely abandoned the real ME.

Is that codependent? Then perhaps earlier on in the friendship/relationship I might have been codependent. Not this past year. I did not need him to complete me. I enjoyed his company at times. I believed we loved each other. I believed we were encouraging each other to become the best person possible. But when the relationship ended I did NOT fail. He had lied to me and that is HIS problem, not mine. I have to take responsibility of wanting to Rescue him and falling for his line that we had common dreams and goals as a couple, and that's it.

I didn't love taking care of him either. I enjoy - in a healthy relationship - being generous and loving to my partner, but not being a nursemaid, personal assistant, or anything of the sort.

denny57

I could. And do.

FormerDoormat

There is a motive behind any action I take. It took me a while to see that.

CBrown

So Denny, your XA never enters your mind when you're posting on here? You never cite examples of his behavior?

I also let go and let AH decide what he wanted to do. He filed the divorce papers, but didn't serve me for 4 months. One time he said to me, just tell me what to do. I said I couldn't.

I sometimes wonder about the connection between him filing/serving, his drawing this out into a 5 month trial (and 2 year divorce), and the nastiness from him. Would he have pretended to be nicer if I acted the way he expected me to?

If you are "wondering" and asking "would he" that sounds like him taking up space in your head. But perhaps I'm misinterpreting the term "taking up space in your head" and need it defined. Does Heather think of her XABF 75% of the time and that makes her "codependent?" Do I think about R 10% of the time and that makes me "codependent?" Must we never, ever think of our former partners again for us to be totally non-codependent?

LaTeeDa

My being codependent really has nothing to do with my ex-husband at all. It is a set of behaviors and attitudes that have been with me my whole life. Being with an A only enhanced them. As Minnie once put it--"The horns on his head fit perfectly the holes in mine."

Recovering from codependence (or whatever term you want to use) has nothing to do with leaving behind the toxic relationship with the A. Although, continuing to wallow in self-pity over what was "done to us" certainly hinders the process. It has everything to do with healing the relationship with myself.

FormerDoormat

Has anyone here ever heard the phrase, "me thinks thou does protest too much?" My mother said it to me on occassion when I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to convince her of something I claimed I wasn't (an overeater, a co-dependent, etc.).

Looking back, I realize that when I made repeated claims that I wasn't an overeater, a co-dependent, etc., the only person I was trying to convince that this was true was myself. In the end, I was never able to fool my mother or myself (for long).

When something pushes my button and I become defensive, it usually means that somebody has spoken the truth. I just don't want to hear it. I become defensive in an attempt to deflect the truth, much in the same way that my addict became defensive when I attempted to tell him the truth.

FormerDoormat

I did. The tattoo said "addict." The warning label was clear to most everyone but me.

I didn't say "every woman." I said "sick women."

CBrown

"If someone tattooed the word "TOXIC" on these guys foreheads, it wouldn't do a bit of good. Sick women would still find them attractive." I see where I was wrong. I read the first sentence, and not the second. My apologies.

"When something pushes my button and I become defensive, it usually means that somebody has spoken the truth." No, I'm just being firm about this, not angry, not defensive. It simply does not apply to me.

cdk1972

HBB is obviously going through some pain right now. She happens to be, at this time thinking often of her XAB and wanted to vent. This post is for HER. Can we please be supportive and quit pointing fingers and trying to be "right"? We all have different perceptions, and different feelings about a lot of things. Again, this site is for kindness and supporting, not a debate on who is right or wrong. Why do we need to argue who is a codependent or not? Does it matter? Support her in her pain. Support each other in all of our pain.
Thanks.

good_luck

Actually, I respectfully disagree. I think that sometimes, like in my case, codependency is a maladaptive behavior, and developed in an unhealthy relationship. This is not a black and white thing, of course.

It is my understanding that codependency is kind of a coping mechanism. And it seems that the reason why it was adopted, at what stage in life, etc. is very important, and means that it can be more or less severe.

The term originated to describe the behavior of spouses of addicts and the mentally ill, and has since been expanded. I really think that while physically in a relationship with an addict, it is very hard to behave in a non-codependent, functional manner. But it is also possible that outside of the relationship, one does not necessarily have the same behavior.

I changed in my relationship. I know it. My friends and family noticed it. Codependency is not normal for me. It freaks me out that I acted that way, but it's comforting to at least understand it now. I really don't think that I will act that way again.

So for me, I was codependent. I behaved codependently. But I am not codependent.

FormerDoormat

Sharing what I've learned is being supportive. Why does this come across as argumentative to you?

cdk1972

Because this post turned from HBB to other topics. We've lost site of the original post.