Help with 'crazymaking' please
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Help with 'crazymaking' please
Hello my name is Dora, I am new here, I have been reading the stickys.
I really need some serious help & advice please...
I would like to help myself to withstand the onslaught, & show by living it, that my husband does have a choice too.
How do I do this? How did anyone else get through this?
I know I am not the cause for my husband's behaviour.
I am not handling his 'crazy making' very well.
He is no longer 24/7 drinking.
He is however sliding back into the ATTITUDE & BEHAVIOUR that goes with it.
He can be loving attentive husband & father when he chooses to be.
However if WE are NOT doing as he wishes, or offer alternatives to his suggestions he simply blows up, name calling, derogatory statements, then apologises.
I am not satisfied allowing this happen to me or our children.
Yet I am told by my husband if I did xyz, he wouldn't have to behave that way.
I here this as controlling & threatening. That he is holding me responsible for his negative actions & behaviours.
I have not joined Al-anon yet.
My husband went to 2 meetings & decided that 'those people' are not like him, so has not been since 2002.
He has cut down on his drinking, & is home everynight.
It feels like he lives for our Friday night out & his old friend the pint.
I believe this because I have on numerous occassion set up alternative dates that did not involve alchohol, this lead to he become anxious, angry to the point I would suggest that maybe we stop for one, The calm that comes over him is tangible at the suggestion of going for a drink, without even actually having drank it yet.
My question is how do I cope?
How do you handle the diatribe & vulgar nasties that slide out with dignity & respect?
What consequences can I enforce?
What do you do to remain calm & loving in the face of it?
Your thoughts & advice greatly received please....
I want to walk with peace inside & out.
Thank you
Dora.
I really need some serious help & advice please...
I would like to help myself to withstand the onslaught, & show by living it, that my husband does have a choice too.
How do I do this? How did anyone else get through this?
I know I am not the cause for my husband's behaviour.
I am not handling his 'crazy making' very well.
He is no longer 24/7 drinking.
He is however sliding back into the ATTITUDE & BEHAVIOUR that goes with it.
He can be loving attentive husband & father when he chooses to be.
However if WE are NOT doing as he wishes, or offer alternatives to his suggestions he simply blows up, name calling, derogatory statements, then apologises.
I am not satisfied allowing this happen to me or our children.
Yet I am told by my husband if I did xyz, he wouldn't have to behave that way.
I here this as controlling & threatening. That he is holding me responsible for his negative actions & behaviours.
I have not joined Al-anon yet.
My husband went to 2 meetings & decided that 'those people' are not like him, so has not been since 2002.
He has cut down on his drinking, & is home everynight.
It feels like he lives for our Friday night out & his old friend the pint.
I believe this because I have on numerous occassion set up alternative dates that did not involve alchohol, this lead to he become anxious, angry to the point I would suggest that maybe we stop for one, The calm that comes over him is tangible at the suggestion of going for a drink, without even actually having drank it yet.
My question is how do I cope?
How do you handle the diatribe & vulgar nasties that slide out with dignity & respect?
What consequences can I enforce?
What do you do to remain calm & loving in the face of it?
Your thoughts & advice greatly received please....
I want to walk with peace inside & out.
Thank you
Dora.
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
Welcome again Dora! You found us over here! 
Keep posting! And so glad that you are here-
Forcing things on others like consequences are not the way to go-you can only make choices for yourself-
Have you thought about going to Al-Anon? It has done me wonders and given me great advice to guide me through my life-
Keep posting! And so glad that you are here-
Forcing things on others like consequences are not the way to go-you can only make choices for yourself-
Have you thought about going to Al-Anon? It has done me wonders and given me great advice to guide me through my life-
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Okay, this is going to sound extremely simplistic, but here goes ... "Let Go and Let God." Get thee into Al-Anon, and start working a program. Step 1: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol; that our lives had become unmanageable."
His addiction is HIS to own; not your's. If he tells you to do xyz in order to make him happy or please him, blow it off. If you had the ability to cause, control, or cure his drinking, you would be the first human being in the history of mankind to be endowed with such powers.
He's manipulating and attempting to use scare tactics to get you to dance to his tune. As I said, Al-Anon will teach you ways to set boundaries. Leave his "stinkin' thinkin'" to him. He owns that as well as his addiction.
It took me a rather long four years to learn to detach with love, but then I'm a slow learner. I just blow off the "quacking" of the A in my life and realize it's the addiction, not the man, speaking. As far as name-calling and vulgar talk .... well, I leave the room. If need be, I leave the house. As soon as my AH would start calling me a b***h or whatever, I'd say, "I will not listen to this filth," and I'd leave. It took some time, but he hasn't regressed to his name-calling tactics in months. Occasionally, he'll tell me I'm the one who is nuts (hmmm, he may have a point there!:mock), or he'll falsely accuse me of something. I don't engage him in a discussion, an argument, or a debate. I LEAVE THE ROOM AND IGNORE HIS NONSENSE.
The next day, he'll behave as if nothing happened. Addicts tend to do that, as you may have noticed. I work my anger and frustration out by going to a meeting, talking it over with my sponsor, reading AA or Al-Anon literature, treating myself to a cup of coffee while glancing through a book at my local bookstore. In other words, I treat myself kindly and leave his potty-mouth to be HIS to own.
Okay, sorry to sound like a broken record here, but start trying out local Al-Anon meetings. Believe me, they DO work and the program does work if you work it!
His addiction is HIS to own; not your's. If he tells you to do xyz in order to make him happy or please him, blow it off. If you had the ability to cause, control, or cure his drinking, you would be the first human being in the history of mankind to be endowed with such powers.
He's manipulating and attempting to use scare tactics to get you to dance to his tune. As I said, Al-Anon will teach you ways to set boundaries. Leave his "stinkin' thinkin'" to him. He owns that as well as his addiction.
It took me a rather long four years to learn to detach with love, but then I'm a slow learner. I just blow off the "quacking" of the A in my life and realize it's the addiction, not the man, speaking. As far as name-calling and vulgar talk .... well, I leave the room. If need be, I leave the house. As soon as my AH would start calling me a b***h or whatever, I'd say, "I will not listen to this filth," and I'd leave. It took some time, but he hasn't regressed to his name-calling tactics in months. Occasionally, he'll tell me I'm the one who is nuts (hmmm, he may have a point there!:mock), or he'll falsely accuse me of something. I don't engage him in a discussion, an argument, or a debate. I LEAVE THE ROOM AND IGNORE HIS NONSENSE.
The next day, he'll behave as if nothing happened. Addicts tend to do that, as you may have noticed. I work my anger and frustration out by going to a meeting, talking it over with my sponsor, reading AA or Al-Anon literature, treating myself to a cup of coffee while glancing through a book at my local bookstore. In other words, I treat myself kindly and leave his potty-mouth to be HIS to own.
Okay, sorry to sound like a broken record here, but start trying out local Al-Anon meetings. Believe me, they DO work and the program does work if you work it!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Hi Dora,
I'm so sorry you're being abused like this. He is obviously still very much craving his alcohol, and is making you & the kids pay for his pain.
It is no good whatsover if he is only patient and loving when everyone is going along with him. We can ALL be loving patient attentive people for short bursts of time when everything is going our way. What he is doing is extremely controlling behavior, and I'm glad you see that. The problem is that your kids will model themselves after him. Where do controlling husbands and wives come from? Controlling mothers and fathers. I worry about this for you. I too loved the book "Codependent No More" so that I could see the triggers and attitudes that contributed to these situations (on both of our parts)
I think walking away and leaving the room when he starts his abuse is a good thing to do. Not just for you, but for your kids, so that they can see his controlling behavior is not rewarded. A possible statement might be, "I have done nothing wrong and will NOT be verbally abused by you. If you want to have a calm, adult conversation, we will be in the other room."
If he will not change his abusive behavior, you may have to think up some more strict and physical boundaries. There is no reason in the world why you should have to live like this. None at all.
All my best,
GL
I'm so sorry you're being abused like this. He is obviously still very much craving his alcohol, and is making you & the kids pay for his pain.
It is no good whatsover if he is only patient and loving when everyone is going along with him. We can ALL be loving patient attentive people for short bursts of time when everything is going our way. What he is doing is extremely controlling behavior, and I'm glad you see that. The problem is that your kids will model themselves after him. Where do controlling husbands and wives come from? Controlling mothers and fathers. I worry about this for you. I too loved the book "Codependent No More" so that I could see the triggers and attitudes that contributed to these situations (on both of our parts)
I think walking away and leaving the room when he starts his abuse is a good thing to do. Not just for you, but for your kids, so that they can see his controlling behavior is not rewarded. A possible statement might be, "I have done nothing wrong and will NOT be verbally abused by you. If you want to have a calm, adult conversation, we will be in the other room."
If he will not change his abusive behavior, you may have to think up some more strict and physical boundaries. There is no reason in the world why you should have to live like this. None at all.
All my best,
GL
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
It's a bit touch..if he is still drinking.
I think the most significent different was a thrid party or a fouth
party was involved.
when my gf was sober, we had our problems but have her sponsor
or my sponsor in the close contact made a different.
Referees you can say.
i would tend to follow derections from my sponsor..ya see
when I call my sponson..I'm extreemly t-off at my gf and visa versa.
our sponsor would..i guess listen to us whine, give us some hints.
at the very least get us calm to at least communicate.
or stop fighting each other.
Becuase the heat of the moment, it wasn't communicating
it was just a pissing contest.
AA, al anon and the 12 steps is not about stopping the drinking.
No one can force a person to stop if they don't wish to.
However once a person gets pass detox and start working
the steps or program..bascailly it's about changing ourselves..
yeap, those Crazies....
You pretty much discribe what most recovery alcoholics would decribe
as a dry drunk. Not drinking but still acting out in old behaviors.
i don't know...mmm wonder if he ever wonder,
if his behaviors would cuase you to file for a divorce ?
That would be a hell of a consequence..but ya know i belive his going to blame
you for that too.
couldn't conviece my gf to attend meetings or get another sponsor ya see.
that's why we're not together anymore...enough is enough.
I woke up one morning and told her i wouldn't live like that anymore.
I tried everything.
consequence ?...i suffered her damn consequnces.
In other words...I let her drag me down with her.
still very heart breaking becuase I loved her.
still working through my codi stuff thou.
I think the most significent different was a thrid party or a fouth
party was involved.
when my gf was sober, we had our problems but have her sponsor
or my sponsor in the close contact made a different.
Referees you can say.
i would tend to follow derections from my sponsor..ya see
when I call my sponson..I'm extreemly t-off at my gf and visa versa.
our sponsor would..i guess listen to us whine, give us some hints.
at the very least get us calm to at least communicate.
or stop fighting each other.
Becuase the heat of the moment, it wasn't communicating
it was just a pissing contest.
AA, al anon and the 12 steps is not about stopping the drinking.
No one can force a person to stop if they don't wish to.
However once a person gets pass detox and start working
the steps or program..bascailly it's about changing ourselves..
yeap, those Crazies....
You pretty much discribe what most recovery alcoholics would decribe
as a dry drunk. Not drinking but still acting out in old behaviors.
i don't know...mmm wonder if he ever wonder,
if his behaviors would cuase you to file for a divorce ?
That would be a hell of a consequence..but ya know i belive his going to blame
you for that too.
couldn't conviece my gf to attend meetings or get another sponsor ya see.
that's why we're not together anymore...enough is enough.
I woke up one morning and told her i wouldn't live like that anymore.
I tried everything.
consequence ?...i suffered her damn consequnces.
In other words...I let her drag me down with her.
still very heart breaking becuase I loved her.
still working through my codi stuff thou.
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
Dora,
Have you read through the stickies? These are where I found my path. I refer people to them quite alot rather than tell them what I think they could do etc, because I am so convinced of the value of these threads. My whole recovery begun there. I read through them with a completely open mind and reflected on myself ALOT. Putting the steps into action has made me soo much happier.
Have you read through the stickies? These are where I found my path. I refer people to them quite alot rather than tell them what I think they could do etc, because I am so convinced of the value of these threads. My whole recovery begun there. I read through them with a completely open mind and reflected on myself ALOT. Putting the steps into action has made me soo much happier.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Welcome Dora. You have found a wonderful place to get information and support.
You cope by
learning to change your focus from your husband to yourself. You cannot change him, you can change yourself and how you live.
You start by recognizing that behavior for what it is, abuse. Then you decide what you are willing to do and can do about it.
IMO, you can't really enforce consequences. We are tolking about another adult here. You can set boundaries and consequences but that is more about you than your AH. You decide what you need in your life and figure out what you are going to do for yourself if those boundaries are not respected.
That was the hardest part for me. I eventually decided I couldn't live with the drama, the disappointments, the lies and decided the best thing for me to do was to leave my AH. I got to the point where I finally valued myself and my son more than the empty marriage I had.
Originally Posted by dora 
My question is how do I cope?
learning to change your focus from your husband to yourself. You cannot change him, you can change yourself and how you live.
Originally Posted by dora
How do you handle the diatribe & vulgar nasties that slide out with dignity & respect?
Originally Posted by dora
What consequences can I enforce?
Originally Posted by dora
What do you do to remain calm & loving in the face of it?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Rella Thank you for the welcome, you've opened me to a new way of thinking ..."Forcing things on others like consequences are not the way to go-you can only make choices for yourself-" It's taking that a while to sink in.
I hear it, I read it, intellectually I get. I really thought that I had to 'show' how serious I was about the infractions <<shaking my head in duh>> with actual tangible consequences, while protecting my self-esteem or what little is left of it <<< rolling my eyes, & knowing I am actually a valuable & good person too>>>
It's challenging to change the way I've been, to conciously be aware of my thoughts & reasons for my actions, to stop re-acting & be calmly aware.
I hate fighting for my right to exist as a happy functioning person with valid feelings.
Prodigal Thank you, That's exactly where I am at he does tell me to do xyz in order to make him happy... I haven't figured out a way to tell him cop-on nicely that he'll accept without vicious verbal statements from him.
You really understand this head twisting dynamic, I feel he messes with my mind if I listen to him seriously. It does wear me down over time, with constant reiteration I do begin to doubt myself until I step back & know the truth is not what he says, it is what I believe, see & do.
Thank you for the practical lesson, "I will not listen to this filth" I LEAVE THE ROOM AND IGNORE HIS NONSENSE". I can & do leave the room when I feel it becomes unhealthy for me. I can feel anger from myself in making that call, I am trying to remain calm, loving & open to honest conversation, I hear his own hurts & insecurities when he lashes out verbally at me, he is insulting & aggressive,
I sometimes wish he'd behave as if nothing happened the next day. Not this man, no, he holds grudges, does the silent treatment, until his ego is salved by my peace making, apologising to him. He does not do anything wrong according to himself, he is only standing up for himself & being 'normal'. "Most men would do xyz"
Rella, Prodigal & CMC
I believe I have a lot to learn. I have spoke on the phone with an AA member, I have not had the courage to walk into an Al anon meeting yet it's in our local school. Though I know it would do me some good.
AReal Lady, I am currently reading Melody Beattie, Co - Dep no more. I see both of us in it at different times. How do we make it happen??? I definitely want to stop it. I will have to read it again more intently on the cause.
GiveLove Thank you, I've been so afraid for so long to name it as it is. ABUSE.
"I have done nothing wrong and will NOT be verbally abused by you. If you want to have a calm, adult conversation, we will be in the other room." I absolutely can & will use this, when required. Thank you.
SaTit, yes you are spot on in respect of 'referees', anyone NOT emotionally involved can be helpful.
It's interesting that you would recognise that he'd blame me anyway. A friend of mine told recently, "You are not a b1tch & never were, he has to make you look & sound like a b1tch in his own mind to justify his behaviour" I really didn't understand for ages what that meant, now I'm begining to, he does actually have this button pushing ability to say exactly the right cutting or dismissive thing.
What I have to do is learn to NOT take those nasty things in, & not to react.
Feelings are transient, neither right nor wrong, this too will pass.
Lilyflower, I am reading through those stickies. Thank you. Perhaps I will be on a path similiar one day.
I AM OPEN to being TOLD what YOU or anyone may think I could do in any situ. I do trust myself.
I know change is afoot, my feet are ready, my mind is willing, I have to change how I do things for myself.
Barbara... thank you for the step by step guidelines. "You decide what you need in your life and figure out what you are going to do for yourself if those boundaries are not respected." this is my now. Thank you.
AnvilHead .....that behavior,..... that's all on him. you seek support, information........you begin to detach what is HIS, and what is YOURS.....where you end and he begins. you understand that this is not your fault, your problem to solve........you accept that he may NEVER change(that ones hard).....you cease to live just to please him and keep the peace. you sweep up the eggshells.......Thank you, eggs make such a mess if you don't clean up rapidly they begin to fester, so I heard, might have a lot of scrambling going on here soon. hope it's peacful & loving on both our parts.
I am so grateful to everyone here.
I have a lot to do & a lot more to change & improve on, learning as I go.
I am getting ready to face up to it
THank YOu.
Dora X
Taking a mo to cry to myself, then shake myself out of pity & into life worth living.
Bonus I am now smoke free since Thurs Nov 29th, at 7:30am, I did slip last night & had 2 cigs that I actually did not enjoy. & gave H fuel to further undermine me.
I know he loves me deep within, it's the outer shell that's hard. Thank you for listening. Dora X
I hear it, I read it, intellectually I get. I really thought that I had to 'show' how serious I was about the infractions <<shaking my head in duh>> with actual tangible consequences, while protecting my self-esteem or what little is left of it <<< rolling my eyes, & knowing I am actually a valuable & good person too>>>
It's challenging to change the way I've been, to conciously be aware of my thoughts & reasons for my actions, to stop re-acting & be calmly aware.
I hate fighting for my right to exist as a happy functioning person with valid feelings.
Prodigal Thank you, That's exactly where I am at he does tell me to do xyz in order to make him happy... I haven't figured out a way to tell him cop-on nicely that he'll accept without vicious verbal statements from him.
You really understand this head twisting dynamic, I feel he messes with my mind if I listen to him seriously. It does wear me down over time, with constant reiteration I do begin to doubt myself until I step back & know the truth is not what he says, it is what I believe, see & do.
Thank you for the practical lesson, "I will not listen to this filth" I LEAVE THE ROOM AND IGNORE HIS NONSENSE". I can & do leave the room when I feel it becomes unhealthy for me. I can feel anger from myself in making that call, I am trying to remain calm, loving & open to honest conversation, I hear his own hurts & insecurities when he lashes out verbally at me, he is insulting & aggressive,
I sometimes wish he'd behave as if nothing happened the next day. Not this man, no, he holds grudges, does the silent treatment, until his ego is salved by my peace making, apologising to him. He does not do anything wrong according to himself, he is only standing up for himself & being 'normal'. "Most men would do xyz"
Rella, Prodigal & CMC
I believe I have a lot to learn. I have spoke on the phone with an AA member, I have not had the courage to walk into an Al anon meeting yet it's in our local school. Though I know it would do me some good.
AReal Lady, I am currently reading Melody Beattie, Co - Dep no more. I see both of us in it at different times. How do we make it happen??? I definitely want to stop it. I will have to read it again more intently on the cause.
GiveLove Thank you, I've been so afraid for so long to name it as it is. ABUSE.
"I have done nothing wrong and will NOT be verbally abused by you. If you want to have a calm, adult conversation, we will be in the other room." I absolutely can & will use this, when required. Thank you.
SaTit, yes you are spot on in respect of 'referees', anyone NOT emotionally involved can be helpful.
It's interesting that you would recognise that he'd blame me anyway. A friend of mine told recently, "You are not a b1tch & never were, he has to make you look & sound like a b1tch in his own mind to justify his behaviour" I really didn't understand for ages what that meant, now I'm begining to, he does actually have this button pushing ability to say exactly the right cutting or dismissive thing.
What I have to do is learn to NOT take those nasty things in, & not to react.
Feelings are transient, neither right nor wrong, this too will pass.
Lilyflower, I am reading through those stickies. Thank you. Perhaps I will be on a path similiar one day.
I AM OPEN to being TOLD what YOU or anyone may think I could do in any situ. I do trust myself.
I know change is afoot, my feet are ready, my mind is willing, I have to change how I do things for myself.
Barbara... thank you for the step by step guidelines. "You decide what you need in your life and figure out what you are going to do for yourself if those boundaries are not respected." this is my now. Thank you.
AnvilHead .....that behavior,..... that's all on him. you seek support, information........you begin to detach what is HIS, and what is YOURS.....where you end and he begins. you understand that this is not your fault, your problem to solve........you accept that he may NEVER change(that ones hard).....you cease to live just to please him and keep the peace. you sweep up the eggshells.......Thank you, eggs make such a mess if you don't clean up rapidly they begin to fester, so I heard, might have a lot of scrambling going on here soon. hope it's peacful & loving on both our parts.
I am so grateful to everyone here.
I have a lot to do & a lot more to change & improve on, learning as I go.
I am getting ready to face up to it
THank YOu.
Dora X
Taking a mo to cry to myself, then shake myself out of pity & into life worth living.
Bonus I am now smoke free since Thurs Nov 29th, at 7:30am, I did slip last night & had 2 cigs that I actually did not enjoy. & gave H fuel to further undermine me.
I know he loves me deep within, it's the outer shell that's hard. Thank you for listening. Dora X
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
Hi Dora,
I'm so glad you have found support and understanding here. Keep posting to us and talking through your problems. I'm so happy your here with us and beginning to heal
Lots of luv
Lily xxxxxxxxx
I'm so glad you have found support and understanding here. Keep posting to us and talking through your problems. I'm so happy your here with us and beginning to heal
Lots of luv
Lily xxxxxxxxx
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