Beautiful

After spending 30 days in careful reflection after AH latest barrage of what's wrong with me - I stood silent for the 40 minute tyrade- I filed for divorce.

I am so sick of "everyone" having to be sick in order to live with an A!!

My friends and colleagues (even some who work AA) don't think that I'm SICK. Every F'ing time I speak to AH he says that *I* am the one who's sick, *I* am the one to blame, *I* am "the elephant in the living room no one talks about."

Affected by living with an addictive personality? Yep. Do I own it? Yep. Does that make me SICK???? Doubtful, although I will say that today I only feel half sane! LOL!

Must *everyone* be sick or is that really just a manipulative way that the A gains control so the cycle can start again??



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Lilyflower

Hi Beautiful.

I'm not sick, I live with an alcoholic. I DO have plenty of issues, mainly codependancy. Sickness implies that you... take it easy for a while, drink plenty of fluids, take medicine etc etc. I am not ill!

I have always believed in self reflection. Some say I over analyse, but for me the situations that arise in my life are lessons. Each day I find myself in a situation that can teach me something, to help me gain a better insight into myself, my reactions. I try to observe my mind, to help me better myself. I believe this is the meaning of my life, to leave this world a better person than when I entered it, to nurture my spiritual growth.

As will tell us we're 'sick', or as I have been told by my abf 'you need help'. It is their way of shifting the responsibility of their actions from themselves to us. It keeps them on the higher ground, and us lower.

Beautiful

Thank you! I think it is part of learning in general to look inward and then seek to be better - just for the sake of growing and maturing.

Pablo Picasso once said "There are two types of women - goddesses and doormats."

Call me a goddess!:Wshade

FormerDoormat

When I convinced myself that my only problem was my partner's drinking I was manipulating someone, too--me!

I lived with a man who was constantly intoxicated for 25 years. I lived with a man who lied to me repeatedly. I lived with a man who was emotionally unavailable and avoided intimacy with me at all costs. I lived with a man who didn't own a home of his own or a car, a man who couldn't drive, didn't have a checking or savings account, and didn't own a single credit card. I lived with a man who refused to introduce me to his family and avoided introducing me to his friends and coworkers. I lived with a man who had many close brushes with death because alcoholism and diabetes don't mix. I lived with a man who walked on all fours like a dog because he was too drunk to walk upright. And throughout all this, I steadfastly claimed that I held on to this relationship because I loved him.

Does that sound like a healthy woman to you? I convinced myself that I wasn't sick because I knew if I was honest with myself, I wouldn't like what I saw. So I got the help I needed, mostly from SR and Alanon, and listened to feedback from others on this forum, even when I didn't like what they were saying. Even when they made me angry.

Why is it that it's always easier to see the truth when we're on the outside of a relationship looking in? Because we're not looking at our truth then, when looking at someone else's truth.

What is your truth, Beautiful?

Lilyflower

Such a shame the whole world cannot think the same, we would all be so happier and healthier for it!

lovemypup

I think when all "A's" get backed into a corner by someone, their defense is to lash out and tell that person "they are sick in the head". That way the attention is off themselves.
Been through all that crap myself.

Barbara52

Are those of us who spend X number of years in a relationship with an alcoholic sick? Yup, on some level we all are.

I know I was. I forgot to take care of myself, I gave in to my enabling and codependent behaviors and thoughts. I forgot that I was a person worth everything good in life. I thought loyalty and marriage vows meant putting up with stuff no one should have to put up with. Was I sick? Absolutely!

When I began to recognized all this, I took the first steps to being healthy.

Beautiful

It sounds like I have been affected -deeply- by living with an A. And yes, I freely admit that I have been affected by it. I also know that I have spent long hours breaking away from that cycle.

Did I start out this way? NO. I didn't. In fact, I can honestly relate to the sticky story that addresses the frog in the boiling water vs the frog in the lukewarm water. It had gotten to the point that I was jumping around until I was exhausted.

I have been brutally honest over the past years with how it's affected me. It's affected me in that I, prior to this marriage, found fun, laughter, responsibility, joy, family, and security "normal" and not a "luxury". As this marriage progressed I found those same things unattainable - mainly because I couldn't stave off the constant attacks. I am not invincible. I crumbled. I admit it.

That doesn't mean that I am going to continue to live in it, nor does it mean that any other person has the right to continue to flog me until I agree that I am the "elephant in the room." That's outrageous. It is also a bit of an insult to think that my walk "should" be faster. I walk at my own pace and that isn't anyone's business but mine.

FormerDoormat

I spoke nothing of the pace of your recovery. I spoke only about my recovery. I was a frog in boiling water before my alcoholic boyfriend arrived on the scene.

Barbara52

The comments from our As are more about them and their denial than anything else. It them quacking away to avoid looking inward. I give them the attention they deserve. None.

Beautiful

FD- I didn't feel that you were addressing my pace. My frustration stems from trying to get back to the road that I was traveling before I got involved with my AH and getting "slapped" each time I make a positive step. It is almost like getting kicked when you're almost to "up" by someone who is still laying on the floor. All the while I know that if I kick back the reaction to my reaction will probably break my knees........

Lilyflower

I think for people who have no knowledge of living in this type of environment, it is black and white. The partners of A's are seen to have no problems and the solution is just 'kick 'em to the curb'/'Loose that zero' etc. All us here on SR know thats not the case.

Each of us our 'walking our own path', each attempting a different stratergy to help us cope/escape/re assert ourselves.... The story is different for everyone and so is the path

... and so is the speed.

I feel that IMO my path is my life, and it is not the destination that is important, but the journey.

dreamygirl

I think I was mentally and emotionally UNWELL - until I got out of living with an active drinker. Everyone in my life who cared about me - told me to get out, that included a Minister, a medical doctor, nurses, his doctors, a psychologist, a social worker, bosses, coworkers, friends and family - oh and my dog. (kidding)

When you are there and in the relationship - you will initially think you can save them, think you can change them and get them to stop drinking. Some people try for many years - some give up and get out quick. Sometimes I think the longer you stay the harder it is to get out. Some drinkers DO stop - because coincidentally they hit rock bottom and opted to make a change. And based on the case studies and research of this horrible disease, they didn't do it because their loved one 'made' or encouraged them, - they chose it all on their own - so they can do it with or without their spouse present, it is all up to them.

Took me 7 months to get out - the length of my short marriage. I tried to help from afar for 3 months - but he just kept drinking every time he got out of a hospital. Even after he had almost bled to death for the second time from cirhosis of the liver caused by esophageal varices (which I witnessed). At the time he was only 39 years old. So after 3 months of failed attempts and a total of ten months of abuse - and blame being forced down MY throat - I filed for divorce.

Two years later - I am healthy, I am not unwell nor in the horrible place i was 2 years ago. I look back and can't believe what I endured - I really can't. It made me stronger - but it also did something to me that will never be the same. And for that - i can honestly say I wish I never met him. Maybe one day i will be able to say that is not the case - who knows.

Sadly I learned he died last month - due to his fourth episode of bleeding - he bled to death after a bender. Just turned 41 years old.

Getting out is the healthiest and kindest think you can do for yourself - and you is all that matters right now. Unfortunately you don't matter to him - only drinking does.

Take care of you - whether you are able to do that with him or from afar, that is your own choice.

Try to remember no one is forcing you to get out or leave on this forum - but people like me see ourselves in you. We want to help people save valuable days of their own lives - by not suffering the way we did. Maybe I didn't suffer as long as others but I can never get back that year of my life and the following year or so after I left him. Can't get back all the moments I lost when I could have been happy with friends and family and was so preoccupied with my own leftover pain and fear attributable to that relationship. Thankfully I am finally at a happy time in my life - but there isn't a day that goes by that something does not remind me of what went on living with an alcoholic and how unwell that relationship was.

Some day - you will hopefully be doing the same for another on this board - talking to someone and urging them to be good to themselves, put themselves first - because in the end you are all you've got.

Mr. Christian

Sick, well yes. What other reason would we want to be in a distructive relationship.
Just as some like to coin the Alcoholic as being sick. It works both ways really.

If we were healthy we would have left a long time ago..

guineapigjude

I look at it this way ~ my XAH and I were both sick. I wasn't responsible for his disease, and he wasn't responsible for mine, but, his choices woke the dragon in me, and I chose to feed it. Was it a conscious choice? No. I thought I was doing the "right thing". I acted out of the best intentions. I realize now how skewed my thinking was, how in denial I was, and how I actually enabled and encouraged his behavior with my actions. Would I have behaved the same way if he were not a substance abuser? I don't know, but I do know I had some major lessons to learn, and without the sledgehammer of his addiction whacking me right between the eyes, I would never have acknowledged I had quite a bit of self examination to do.
But we are all different, and none of us has done anything to deserve the way our A's treat us.

mamajama

I have only been here for a short time, but I already love you FD. No one in their right mind (and I'm included in this group) would live in these situations. Yup, I'm sick.

ARealLady

Me too and that was my initial reaction to the OP's observation about what her A had been insinuating.

I was perfect according to XABF until I began to reinforce my boundaries and that meant telling him the "no contact" was for me. Then, in his eyes, I was a "self-centered bi*ch and it's so clear why your husband left you for another woman".

When they deflect the attention from the real problem (their alcoholism), the other person can choose to bite or walk away. Walking away is harder because you want to defend yourself but, as so many of us figured out, arguing with an addict is a waste of time. By walking away you get to bank more time for you instead of seeing it quacked away.

ARL

wraybear

I refer to myself as being "sick" for about 13 years. I felt as if I had no control. I could not make any decision for fear I would make the wrong one. I lived with shame and guilt. Probably because deep down, I knew I was accepting the unnacceptable. Does this make me "sick" - Personal choice of words. I choose to use that word now because I guess it makes me feel better for allowing certain things to go on in my home that other "normal" people would never have allowed.

In one of the first alcohol related books I read, "The Booze Battle" by Ruth Maxwell, she says

"Co-dependency is the name given to all the twists and contortions people make in their personalities and behavior to stabilize the family when one member is addicted or otherwise out of control.

This book is not about rescuing others, and it's not about fixing your family - those are typical co-dependent responses. But it is about breaking old patterns and the resulting change in family dynamics. Change yourself, and the rest of the family has to adjust.

If you are living with someone who is harmfully involved with alcohol or drugs, you may be questioning your own sanity. You're not crazy. You may feel shattered, but you are not crazy.

Look at some of the rules of your household. Rules set by the alcohol- or drug-dependent person, the most disturbed person in your family. Rules strengthened by the very fact that they're rarely articulated.

Rule number one. The alcohol- or drug-dependent person is the most important person in the family. His needs and wants matter the most, while yours matter little, if at all. This rule, set forth by behavior more than words, clearly states that the chemically dependent person can do whatever he wishes whenever he wishes."

Reading the above helped me finally realize I was accepting the unnacceptable. Now, I could refer to my actions as stupid; low self-worth; pitiful; weak; etc, but I choose the word SICK. I like it much better!!!!!!

dreamygirl

[QUOTE=wraybear;1577532]I refer to myself as being "sick" for about 13 years. I felt as if I had no control. I could not make any decision for fear I would make the wrong one. I lived with shame and guilt. Probably because deep down, I knew I was accepting the unnacceptable. Does this make me "sick" - Personal choice of words. I choose to use that word now because I guess it makes me feel better for allowing certain things to go on in my home that other "normal" people would never have allowed.

In one of the first alcohol related books I read, "The Booze Battle" by Ruth Maxwell, she says

[U]"Co-dependency is the name given to all the twists and contortions people make in their personalities and behavior to stabilize the family when one member is addicted or otherwise out of control.

================================================== ==
I tend to wonder if perhaps my situation was a bit more unique then others. When I read the quotes from the book you mention above, all lines ring true for me. I did all of those things, especially bending over backwards and every other way and changing ME in order to stabilize the relationship I had with my exAH. I became someone I did not like - an unhappy, miserable, sad, scared woman. I accepted horrible behaviors, abusive talk, and disgusting living conditions and much more ALL in order to try to make 'us' be 'normal'. All in order to deny his addiction and all in order to try to hide the fact that I just married a very very sick man.

But the truth of the matter is NO relationship with an actively drinking alcoholic can be 'normal' or 'healthy' or 'loving' or 'kind' or good for the non alcoholic. Because you really don't have a relationship with that person nor do they have one with you! They have a relationship with alcohol - period. And as long as they still choose alcohol, it will win over you every day of the week.

So my question to these people who write these books - atleast in my mind - was - HOW THE HELL do i not enable a drinker or not do all the things I am not suppose to do IF I choose to live with them and continue to maintain a relationship? For me the answer was YOU CANT! As long as he continued to drink he would continue to blame me for his crappy life, his weight, his mood swings, his family, all the unjust and unfair things he felt existed in his life, all the people who did him wrong (which was everyone!), his lousy childhood, is horrendous boss and his cruddy job, etc etc etc - - because alcoholics live in misery, they have horrible lives - THAT is why they drink! They use it as a crutch, any excuse for a drink because it takes away the pain. Now - I am not saying their pain is not real, but many magnify that pain as a reason to just continue to drink, because they need to justify their behavior. They need some excuse to get hammered every chance they can, to wake up with pee in their pants, or passed out on the living room floor or behind the wheel of their car parked in the driveway. They get drunk because their lives suck.

As long as I stayed living with an alcoholic - I continued to live with abuse no matter what I did or didn't do. And when I left - guess what, it continued. When I STOPPED enabling - guess what, he continued to drink! He moved on to other enablers, but whether they were around or not - he would continue to drink and drink and drink.

The difference in his life was I just wasn't around anymore for him to pick on - to blame for his problems, to blame for his drinking and all the horrible things wrong with his life. I left because we just kept going around and around and around in circles debating his addiction, or arguing about his lies, his false promises, his benders every night of the week and failure to come to our bedroom, etc.

Maybe I am unique - I was able to see the light after only 7 months of marriage, because what I saw in him was SO shocking, so wrong, so unloving, so cruel. I kick myself for not leaving SOONER!

And as i have posted before after returning here in the last month - he continued to drink until he had his third episode of esophageal varcies, was hospitalized, got out, drank again - and died of his fourth episode one month later, he was only 41.

In this case - anything done differently really wouldn't have changed a thing in his life. He was going to drink with or without me. Me leaving didn't make him quit, and me staying didn't either. What DID change, was one less victim of this horrendous disease and that is ME! Lord only knows what could have happened to me had I stayed. Alcohol is a dangerous drug - it does horrible things to the brain and the longer they drink the crazier they become. He made threats at times when he was drunk. He drove drunk more times then I can count - it is truly amazing he never killed another human being on the road. But he can't hurt anyone anymore.

I survived. I lived through it. He is now at peace - because like so many other alcoholics, he didn't want to be here, with anyone but the bottle so now he no longer has to live without it. I feel sorry for those who loved him that he left behind because they will miss the person he once WAS, but if they are honest with themselves they know he died a long, long time ago. I feel sorry for the person he could have BEEN, without alcohol - but that person did not exist - anymore.

To those who wonder how to leave or when to leave - take baby steps. As each day goes by, the longer you are gone the easier it will become. And if your loved one is ever going to stop - they need to do it alone, so best for you to see that from afar, because trust me - whether you stay or go may have no bearing on the outcome whatsoever.

wraybear

You had the courage to escape sooner than many of us.

Sounds like you changed your behavior and became codependent to try to accommodate the relationship. Many of us were codependents going in therefore, didn't have to make many changes because we were already codies, therefore stayed longer as we were "used" to living in the chaos.

GOOD FOR YOU!