Are A's all liars as well?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: At my computer
Posts: 28
Ummmm yeah, my dh whole life is one big lie. He lies to protect himself from me. He knows that when he drinks I get upset so he lies. The thing is I have a nose like a fox and I can smell it from a mile away if he has been drinking. Heck I can even tell what he has been drinking, pretty pathetic ha?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 633
The final straw for me was when he lied about staying sober and quitting counseling. He couldn't make it even one month, when he gets served with divorce papers he will act like he has no idea why I am leaving him. I can handle all the stupid white lies he makes up for no reason but to try to make ME think I am crazy is unforgivable. Amazing huh?
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 105
Lying tends to become rather routine, and if you are close to the A, you will soon be able to accurately decipher the false statements.
In my case, it's what wasnt being said that caused many problems. Acts of ommission are also considered lies. The secretive, stealthy, deceptive tactics they follow will eventually come out.
In my case, it's what wasnt being said that caused many problems. Acts of ommission are also considered lies. The secretive, stealthy, deceptive tactics they follow will eventually come out.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
I have no idea whether all alcoholics are liars, given that I haven't met all alcoholics.
We had a great discussion on lying ages ago, but can't find the thread. Here's the article that was the prompt:
Why Do People lie?
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.
Amanda and Ron had been married for six years and had two small children. I had counseled them during some difficult times in their marriage, but had not heard from them for a while. Then Amanda scheduled an emergency phone session with me. She was very upset.
“I just found out that Ron’s been watching porno on the Internet and lying to me about it. I had thought this was going on a couple of weeks ago because of a site I found on the computer, but when I asked him about it, he denied it and explained it away. He is not too computer savvy – he doesn’t know how to delete the sites - and today I found a number of sites he has visited. I can’t believe this! I’m very upset about the porno, but I’m devastated that he lied to me! I feel like the trust has gone out of our marriage, and without trust, what do we have? Why did he lie to me?”
“Amanda, how would you have responded if he had told you the truth?”
“I would have been really upset and disappointed in him. I probably would have gotten angry. We have a good sex life, so why is he using porno?”
“Well, he lied to you because he knew that this is the way you would have reacted. His lying is his way of controlling your reactions, and your anger is your way of controlling his behavior. As long as you get angry when you hear the truth, the chances are he will lie to you. As your children get older, they, too, will lie to you to avoid your anger and judgment. It takes a very strong person to tell the truth and deal with another’s anger and judgment, and Ron is not that strong. He is very afraid of your anger and judgment and will do anything to avoid it, including lying.”
“Are you saying it’s okay for him to lie to me?”
“No, I’m not saying it’s okay or not okay. I’m not making a value judgment about it. You asked why he’s lying and I’m telling you why. Lying is just another form of protection against pain, just as your anger is a form of protection against pain.”
“So what do I do? How do I deal with this?”
“Amanda, you need to shift your intention from trying to control him to being open to learning about what is behind his behavior. From his point of view, there are some important reasons why he is using porno, and why he is lying about it. Trying to control him will only result in more lying and resistance, but wanting to learn can result in understanding and resolution. You need to approach him with caring and a desire to learn rather than with anger and judgment – about both the porno and the lying. You would need to say something like, ‘Ron, I know that you have been going to porno sites on the Internet. Please don’t lie about it anymore. I know there must be some good reasons you are doing this and I really want to understand what it’s about for you.’ However, you have to be aware that the words themselves are less important than the intent behind them. If you say these same words with anger and judgment, he will be defensive. Don’t ask until you feel genuinely open and caring.”
Lying is always a form of control. Some people are pathological liars, having learned that they get a rush from manipulating others with lies. But most people lie when they are afraid of the consequences of telling the truth. Lying may be one end of a relationship system, with anger and judgment on the other end. Whether the relationship is a primary one between mates or between parents and children, or a relationship between friends or between co-workers, lying may be a part of it when fear of anger and judgment is an issue. Most people do not know how to handle another’s anger and judgment and may revert to being the child they were when they learned to lie to their parents to avoid punishment.
If you want to trust that people are not going to lie to you, then you need to shift your intention in your relationships from controlling to learning.
About Author:
Margaret Paul, Ph.D. is the best-selling author and co-author of eight books, including "Do I Have To Give Up Me To Be Loved By You?" and “Healing Your Aloneness.” She is the co-creator of the powerful Inner Bonding healing process. Learn Inner Bonding now! Visit her web site for a FREE Inner Bonding course: http://www.innerbonding.com or mailto:[email protected]. Phone Sessions Available.
Article Source: http://www.BharatBhasha.com
Article Url: http://www.bharatbhasha.com/psychology.php/22060
FWIW, I think that lying is a symptom of dysfunction, not of alcoholism.
We had a great discussion on lying ages ago, but can't find the thread. Here's the article that was the prompt:
Why Do People lie?
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.
Amanda and Ron had been married for six years and had two small children. I had counseled them during some difficult times in their marriage, but had not heard from them for a while. Then Amanda scheduled an emergency phone session with me. She was very upset.
“I just found out that Ron’s been watching porno on the Internet and lying to me about it. I had thought this was going on a couple of weeks ago because of a site I found on the computer, but when I asked him about it, he denied it and explained it away. He is not too computer savvy – he doesn’t know how to delete the sites - and today I found a number of sites he has visited. I can’t believe this! I’m very upset about the porno, but I’m devastated that he lied to me! I feel like the trust has gone out of our marriage, and without trust, what do we have? Why did he lie to me?”
“Amanda, how would you have responded if he had told you the truth?”
“I would have been really upset and disappointed in him. I probably would have gotten angry. We have a good sex life, so why is he using porno?”
“Well, he lied to you because he knew that this is the way you would have reacted. His lying is his way of controlling your reactions, and your anger is your way of controlling his behavior. As long as you get angry when you hear the truth, the chances are he will lie to you. As your children get older, they, too, will lie to you to avoid your anger and judgment. It takes a very strong person to tell the truth and deal with another’s anger and judgment, and Ron is not that strong. He is very afraid of your anger and judgment and will do anything to avoid it, including lying.”
“Are you saying it’s okay for him to lie to me?”
“No, I’m not saying it’s okay or not okay. I’m not making a value judgment about it. You asked why he’s lying and I’m telling you why. Lying is just another form of protection against pain, just as your anger is a form of protection against pain.”
“So what do I do? How do I deal with this?”
“Amanda, you need to shift your intention from trying to control him to being open to learning about what is behind his behavior. From his point of view, there are some important reasons why he is using porno, and why he is lying about it. Trying to control him will only result in more lying and resistance, but wanting to learn can result in understanding and resolution. You need to approach him with caring and a desire to learn rather than with anger and judgment – about both the porno and the lying. You would need to say something like, ‘Ron, I know that you have been going to porno sites on the Internet. Please don’t lie about it anymore. I know there must be some good reasons you are doing this and I really want to understand what it’s about for you.’ However, you have to be aware that the words themselves are less important than the intent behind them. If you say these same words with anger and judgment, he will be defensive. Don’t ask until you feel genuinely open and caring.”
Lying is always a form of control. Some people are pathological liars, having learned that they get a rush from manipulating others with lies. But most people lie when they are afraid of the consequences of telling the truth. Lying may be one end of a relationship system, with anger and judgment on the other end. Whether the relationship is a primary one between mates or between parents and children, or a relationship between friends or between co-workers, lying may be a part of it when fear of anger and judgment is an issue. Most people do not know how to handle another’s anger and judgment and may revert to being the child they were when they learned to lie to their parents to avoid punishment.
If you want to trust that people are not going to lie to you, then you need to shift your intention in your relationships from controlling to learning.
About Author:
Margaret Paul, Ph.D. is the best-selling author and co-author of eight books, including "Do I Have To Give Up Me To Be Loved By You?" and “Healing Your Aloneness.” She is the co-creator of the powerful Inner Bonding healing process. Learn Inner Bonding now! Visit her web site for a FREE Inner Bonding course: http://www.innerbonding.com or mailto:[email protected]. Phone Sessions Available.
Article Source: http://www.BharatBhasha.com
Article Url: http://www.bharatbhasha.com/psychology.php/22060
FWIW, I think that lying is a symptom of dysfunction, not of alcoholism.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by tollbooth 
In my case, it's what wasnt being said that caused many problems. Acts of ommission are also considered lies. The secretive, stealthy, deceptive tactics they follow will eventually come out.
Reminds me of when a lawyer tells their client being questioned to only answer the direct question, and with as few details as possible..... That's the way it became (and is) with exAH; unless I tell him or let him know that I truly do not care! haha [In that case he sometimes falls all over himself with "details" (or story or something) haha; I guess that is human nature,though.]
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
I would say the one's that I have come across in my family and the one I dated YES! It is what they do to make it through the life that they are living!
Like Carol I lied too-when I was a child and even part of my adult life until I made my own choice in life to LIVE LIFE! I'am not an A but rather a codie-I grew up with A's in my home and it is what I learned-growing up to survive!
The thing I find funny and maybe this may sound a bit harsh but my intentions are not to offend anyone at all-but my XABF is in the forum-(Blocked but I do hear some posts-by some that share with me for a good laugh) he is still lying to this day and lying to other A's in this forum-as he is not sober and is still drinking on a daily basis-So A's are very good at lying-it is what they need to do in order to make themselves feel good and on track with the poor choices they make in their life- if one is going to cater to their needs then they will continue to lie to make themselves feel good!
And as I said it goes for the codie's too! Not just A's! I choose not to lie anymore in my life as it keeps me in a place I no longer choose to live!
Like Carol I lied too-when I was a child and even part of my adult life until I made my own choice in life to LIVE LIFE! I'am not an A but rather a codie-I grew up with A's in my home and it is what I learned-growing up to survive!
The thing I find funny and maybe this may sound a bit harsh but my intentions are not to offend anyone at all-but my XABF is in the forum-(Blocked but I do hear some posts-by some that share with me for a good laugh) he is still lying to this day and lying to other A's in this forum-as he is not sober and is still drinking on a daily basis-So A's are very good at lying-it is what they need to do in order to make themselves feel good and on track with the poor choices they make in their life- if one is going to cater to their needs then they will continue to lie to make themselves feel good!
And as I said it goes for the codie's too! Not just A's! I choose not to lie anymore in my life as it keeps me in a place I no longer choose to live!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Wow...thanks for all the responses. I guess lying is a typical thing with addicts. How sad.
I have found that even the smallest lie is ok to them. Not just about their drinking. It's about everything.
My aexh is now telling me that he has no intention of stopping the drinking, he doesn't have a problem, there is no other women, and who knows what else.
Boundaries....boundaries....boundaries.
I have found that even the smallest lie is ok to them. Not just about their drinking. It's about everything.
My aexh is now telling me that he has no intention of stopping the drinking, he doesn't have a problem, there is no other women, and who knows what else.
Boundaries....boundaries....boundaries.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 34
Yeah my AH lies, I think it's a habit or a way of life. I used to get so MAD decades ago. He'd lie when he was straight or drinking. He'd lie when there was no reason and about tiny things. It's confusing to me. I have come to realize, my yelling, threatening, crying or whining did no good. It's on him. I just have to accept it (but don't have to like it). He was raised by two shame-filled strict alcoholics - - makes sense?
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
My AH lies about if he's drinking, when he's drinking, always lies about drinking. Like the other post said, I know he lies about that cause he thinks if he told me the truth, I'd be mad. He doesn't understand that I'm more angry when he lies. A few weeks ago, I said to him "I know you've been drinking, so don't even lie about it." He turned to me and said "you're right, I screwed up today, I'm sorry." End of story, just told him he had to sleep upstairs. Was I angry? No, he told the truth and I knew he was drinking. Where was anger going to get me? When he's off his binge and sober, I know he's pretty truthful.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
ExAH often just does not talk about subjects that he does not want to discuss.......I guess that is another way to not tell a lie but still not be honest. Ugh;so frustrating when you HAVE TO deal with whatever it is.
Oh, and his family are masters at that............in fact, he is the best of the group about dealing with "uncomfortable" subjects.
Oh, and his family are masters at that............in fact, he is the best of the group about dealing with "uncomfortable" subjects.
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
Originally Posted by Pick-a-name
ExAH often just does not talk about subjects that he does not want to discuss.......I guess that is another way to not tell a lie but still not be honest. Ugh;so frustrating when you HAVE TO deal with whatever it is.
Oh, and his family are masters at that............in fact, he is the best of the group about dealing with "uncomfortable" subjects.
Oh, and his family are masters at that............in fact, he is the best of the group about dealing with "uncomfortable" subjects.
Its all the same, just suspends the situation so they don't have to deal.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 112
There was a funny thread about this topic earlier this year. Someone on the forum told a joke but I don't remember who it was, but it went like this: How do you know when an alcoholic is lying? Answer: He's talking
I thought that was so funny and I tell that joke to my RABF all the time and he never seems to tire of it either....
I thought that was so funny and I tell that joke to my RABF all the time and he never seems to tire of it either....
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
Accept it?
Nah you're kidding right?
I'm sorry the cheating thing is a whole different matter. Drinking breaks down the walls and brings out the true person inside.
I dont think I would want to be around a person who truly feels that way....
Nah you're kidding right?
I'm sorry the cheating thing is a whole different matter. Drinking breaks down the walls and brings out the true person inside.
I dont think I would want to be around a person who truly feels that way....
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by sad#3
All the time. I've just learned to accept it. I suspect that she may have cheated on me a few times while in an intoxicated state, but I'll never know, so there's no point in asking.
I have a hard time understanding how it is possible to accept that one's life is a lie. I cannot understand staying in a relationship that doesn't really exist on a meaningful level. A relationship based on lies and that involves cheating is not a relationship anymore.
By accepting this aren't you really saying that you don't matter?
Live, Laugh, Love
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Between Fenway and the Beach!
Posts: 1,301
Originally Posted by Barbara52
A relationship based on lies and that involves cheating is not a relationship anymore.
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