CBrown

Just curious, is there civil or criminal liability for a bar that knowlingly serves their regular alcoholics? How about liquor licenses? Can they be revoked for overserving? I'm not talking people who come in occasionally, or tourists cutting loose. It seems to me that it's kinda criminal to see a bunch of regulars come in every night and nyuk it up while they're watching their patrons do a slow crawl to death.

elizabeth1979

Thats an interesting question. I dont really know..hope someone comes along with some info!

LaTeeDa

The only liability I know of is serving someone who has obviously had too much and then they go out and hurt someone by driving drunk. And that is dependent on the laws of the particular state. I believe people have free will to do with their lives what they will and such a liability sticks in my craw. It is a slipperly slope to holding fast food chains liable for heart attacks and casinos liably for bankruptcy.

JMHO,
L

2Growstrong

I think that the law sending a message that people aren't responsible for their own actions when drinking is reprehensible however; ..........there are laws in some states and here is the basic info. Each state does have different ways of interpreting these laws. Maryanne

2Growstrong

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-dr...dram-shop.html Sorry I needed 1 more post to put in a url. Maryanne

CBrown

I agree wholeheartedly (fast food, obesity, smoking, etc.). However, when a person is nearing .4 BAC in your business, and you continue to push another glass across, it seems a bit homicidal.

Here is Florida's law on the matter:
Statute 768.125 - Liability for injury or damage resulting from intoxication.

A person who sells or furnishes alcoholic beverages to a person of lawful drinking age shall not thereby become liable for injury or damage caused by or resulting from the intoxication of such person, except that a person who willfully and unlawfully sells or furnishes alcoholic beverages to a person who is not of lawful drinking age or knowingly serves a person habitually addicted to the use of any or all alcoholic beverages may become liable for injury or damage caused by or resulting from the intoxication of such minor or person."

Well then, that could include a whole host of "injuries" which which a bar could be sued. And wouldn't you know, a Google search found a few law firms who are ready and willing to fight for plaintiffs!

mike_mass

Would be kind of hard to enforce, I think.

QU31

I do not think there are any laws regarding serving end stage alcoholics. It's definitely not up to the bartender to even decide if someone is an alcoholic. I tended bar for three years and without alcoholics, bars would go out of business, seriously. I decided it wasn't for me and it started to gross me out, serving these people so I stopped. Serving someone who is obviously intoxicated is a different story and yes, bartenders and owners can definitely be held liable.

There was a sad incident in St. Louis earlier this year when a St. Louis Cardinals player died from drunk driving. His family tried to sue the restaurant that served him when he was obviously drunk, but even with it being such a high profile case, they were unsuccessful. I think there's a lot of gray area there concerning the law.

CBrown

"I tended bar for three years and without alcoholics, bars would go out of business, seriously.

I decided it wasn't for me and it started to gross me out, serving these people so I stopped."

lostnfound1961

In Oregon if OLCC comes in and see's you serve a person who is visably intoxicated you will get a heafty fine. It goes up the next time and in the end you could loose your licence. The bar and the bartender get fined. As for serving end stagers..... That's their bread and butter. That is one of the reasons I could not stay in that business. Between that and the poker mahcines I felt like a drug dealer. They say you must give a good faith effort to not let the addicted people play or drink too much but on the other hand.... If they don't you can't pay the bills.

I had a bar (hard liqure) and a tavern (just beer and wine). All the 20/30 somethings that were just starting on that addiction trail were at the bar, and all the 60/70 somethings who were headed to or at end stage were at the tavern. We had people that came to the tavern who had several DUI's over the years and some were in diversion but still came in. HOW CRAZY IS THAT! At the time I was drinking too so who was I to judge. I was right there with them.

I think you would have a hard time going after a bar because they sold a legal substance to an adicted person. Don't you think it's interesting that this substance is controled by the government? Here is Oregon you can only purchase liqure from an OLCC location. OLCC tells the stores what they can sell the product for and when it can go on sale. (Oregon Liqure Controle Comission)

(sorry for the crapy spelling)
D

best

If I am on the jury...
No matter what the law says, I would vote against holding a bar liable.
I have only been in one bar (of the many over the years) that required a person to continue to buy drinks if you wanted to stay inside the bar. No other place "pushed" or forced me to take even one drink. My own choices put me there and being an alcoholic kept me there once inside. The bar or the tender only gave me what I was after.
You drink and drive... it isn't the fault of the bar.
You get the mega sized fries at Mc D's , should they be held liable for a heart condition or the cost of buying you new clothes because the old ones don't fit any more?

cdk1972

Unfortunately, and someone may have addressed this, i just skimmed throught the responses, but bars are only legally responsible for OVER serving someone-I have been a bartender/cocktail waitress as a second job for over 8 years and have encountered NUMEROUS situations like this. I have had to take classes about this topic. The bar i work at is a "cheers" setting, and we have regulars that are literally there EVERY NIGHT 7 days a week-leaving their families at home- some with younger children, even. tell me those people aren't alcoholics?!?!?!? But as sad as it is, the bar is in it for the money, not the morality of the situation, and alcoholic or not, if you're finding a responsible ride home and not causing an obnoxious uproar, we have to serve you.
One story: We'll call him "dan"- a regular that we often take home because he refuses to call a cab- gets so drunk that we refuse to serve him, and often times can't even remember where he lives...but still. is there every single night at that bar. drinking his life away.
Very sad.

steve11694

Until I experienced alcoholism in a loved one, honestly at bars i never noticed who was an alcoholic. i did notice who was drunk and obnoxious but i was not adept at spotting alcoholics. nowadays i am an expert at spotting alcoholics (sadly) it is very sad that many can drink socially and control their alcohol rather than alcohol controlling them.

i can't imagine a bartender asking to see a patrons liver enzyme results before serving him/her. a friend of a friend asked his bartender friend (same bartender serving my AW) if she is alcoholic. He said definitely not. The fact is she was in full blown alcoholism at the time. Goes to show that many bartenders are likely desensitized by all the drinkers they deal with.

LaTeeDa

Yeah, I say let's all sue the bars for serving alcoholics. And then we can sue the drug dealers for selling to addicts. Then we'll sue the doctors for prescribing drugs to people who abuse them. Oh, and what about the alcoholics who drink at home? I guess we'll have to sue the liquor stores.

Dang, I knew I shoulda been a lawyer!

L

CBrown

I know, personal responsibility is something that we're throwing out the window more and more these days. I, too, can't see legally holding a bar responsible unless it go to be something the bartender enjoyed. You'd have to a pretty sick person to encourage an end-stage drunk to drink more. Yet, I think it might be happening. My XABF was living with a woman who tends bar at the marina he lives at. I came around, they broke up, and now they're back together again. It seems to be well known that these days her intention is to marry him (she managed to get the ring), hand him beer after beer both at work and at home, and because he is end-stage, she thinks it won't be long until she's a grieving widow with a lot of money in her pocket.

There just seems something immortal (but perhaps not illegal) about a person doing something like that. If he were sane, maybe he'd see what she's doing, but he's probably certifiable at this point, so nobody's thinks he knows what she's up to. He may be a schmuck, I certainly don't want to be in his life, but I don't like to see that happening to anyone.

parentrecovers

we talked to our lawyer about this when our daughter had her horrible accident. we were afraid of civil suits from pedestrians, so we were covering ourselves anyway we thought possible. cops interviewed the bartender at bar who said they cut her off and that she told them she was taking a cab home and they had witnesses to this. i think it's most likely tricky...the alcoholic's word against the establishment?

k

QU31

I hate to say it, but when you're bartending, your mind is always on the money you're making. It turns into a game....how much can you get, and boy did I sure love counting it all at the end of the night!

Like I said before, a bartender would not know if someone is "end-stage." I don't even think I would know if someone in my family was end stage. But, I willingly served plenty of alcoholics I'm sure. I mean if you didn't, you'd get fired! This was before I joined Al Anon though. There's no way in hell I could be in that environment now. And I don't know how I did it that long while sober!

I can say though, that my boss expected me to serve people who were obviously over the limit, whose IDs were obviously fake, and who we knew were underage, I refused to do those things and that's probably one of the reasons I'm not there anymore! I did take keys away, did suggest AA for some regulars, and drove some home on a few occasions. This didn't make me very popular.....

CBrown

"Like I said before, a bartender would not know if someone is "end-stage."

Ha! This one does. She told me personally "I think he's just about ready to hit rock-bottom." She knows exactly what she's doing.

Sheesh, I'm not a bartender and I can tell when a guy's in trouble. When his feet won't fit into shoes, his legs are 2x their normal size, bruised and veins popping, his eyes are yellow, and nothing he says makes sense, and you're serving him 25 a day, d'ya think he's got long to go?

LaTeeDa

Still, his choice. If one bartender refused to serve him, he would just find another. Or buy a bottle and drink it out of a brown paper bag. Not the bartender's fault. Or the OW, or the position of the stars, or the weather, or, or, or......................

L