confessions of the heart :(
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Originally Posted by hopeangel 
hmb - are we talking about the same guy?
You know, as crappy as your situation is right now, and how desperately you want to be with someone that makes you feel good, I think the advice being given in here is sound. Take the time to sort you out first. If it is truly meant to be with this man, it will be, and it will be worth the wait ya know?
What kind of keeps me in check is the value I have in my friendship with my guy. I don't ever want to lose that, and if I were to jump in to a relationship with him and it all went South, I've lost that friendship forever.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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From what I'm hearing in most all your responses HopeAngel, I believe you've already made a decision to act on your feelings.
If I found myself in a similar situation, I think I'd ask myself why I felt the need to solicit feedback from others. I find that when I've made a decision that I'm feeling uncomfortable with that I often post here and solicit feedback in hopes that folks will tell me I've made the right choice or I'm doing the right thing.
When I'm certain I'm making the right choice I don't feel the need solicit feedback from others because I don't have any doubt in my mind that I'm walking the right path.
If I found myself in a similar situation, I think I'd ask myself why I felt the need to solicit feedback from others. I find that when I've made a decision that I'm feeling uncomfortable with that I often post here and solicit feedback in hopes that folks will tell me I've made the right choice or I'm doing the right thing.
When I'm certain I'm making the right choice I don't feel the need solicit feedback from others because I don't have any doubt in my mind that I'm walking the right path.
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Originally Posted by hmbld
I don't ever want to lose that, and if I were to jump in to a relationship with him and it all went South, I've lost that friendship forever.
The thing that makes our marriage work is the fact that we treat each other as friends first, then everything else. I don't say things to him, nor him to me, that friends wouldn't say to one another. We show each other respect, and work at learning how to best support one another, even in times of trouble when our first instinct is "Me first!! That's MY lifeboat!"
I dont' NEED him, he doesn't NEED me, and neither one of us feels the need to try to control the other to make ourselves feel better...friends wouldn't do that either. We're just on this journey together, walking not-too-close, not-too-far.I think this all came from how we came together -- with courage and integrity.
Thanks for making me think about this stuff with your comment. I'm off to write in my gratitude journal...
XOX
GL
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Originally Posted by FormerDoormat
From what I'm hearing in most all your responses HopeAngel, I believe you've already made a decision to act on your feelings.
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okay everybody let's see,so much to comment on. funny, i knew when i started this thread it would be a good one.
first, those that know me by now know i have no problem taking criticism or hearing others points of views. if fact, i appreciate that the most and i am the first to admit when i feel it is valid.
i really think that the "not ready yet" comment was truly taken the wrong way. it came after a conversation about how we had to take it slow, and how i wanted more than just sex with him, and about how it was going to take patience. he was merely caught in a moment - as was i- and he was merely reinforcing what i had already expressed and respecting it.
i too wonder why someone would want to get involved with someone who is married or with a girlfriend -and we have both expressed our reservations about that. this is not something that just happened - we have had chemistry for YEARS, i have had a crush on him for YEARS. in fact, even my ah could see it and has been jealous of this guy for years.
i DO think there has to be a valid point with me on the availability thing -because minnie's question about "would you have opened up so much to him if he were available?" and i have to admit that when i thought how i would react if he were totally available i felt this sense of IMMEDIATE PANIC. then i started thinking about other relationships i have been in and i don't know that i have been in one where the person was 100% available. wow!
okay, my first big relationship started with the guy being engaged to someone else (he cheated on me after we got engaged and married someone else one month later). i never loved this guy or even liked him really. i got involved with him because my mom likely him -lol.
second, i really loved the ex i spoke of before*still do to this very day and always will* - major commitment phobic when we were together. he was it for me. we are almost too much alike though (could that be because we both have commitment issues ?-lol). i have talked about him in earlier threads. i believe after that i settled with ah because i just felt like that was it and i guess part of just said if i wasn't good enough for him then i wasn't for anyone else. ten years later and he apologizes too me and is now divorced. also, i believe this is a big part of my need for control now because i had absolutely NO control over that situation with him and have tried to control everything ever since.
in between, here and there, a couple of relationships i got in were with married men. I DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE MARRIED WHEN I GOT INVOLVED WITH THEM and ended it after, but i do have to ask myself what attracted me to these men and why i never asked if they were married.
the only thing i can come up with for this is that my dad was not really available emotionally. he was really a great dad and gave us everything we needed and i knew he loved me, but he was an alcoholic. us kids never really realized this though and he was NEVER mean, his attitude or personality NEVER changed a bit. it really seemed to cause us kids no problems, but now i kinda wonder. he also died when i was only 22. we never knew how much it affected my mom until later. he was truly a great guy, just not very affectionate and in a lot of ways my mom was starving for affection.
another thing is i think i feel safer expressing myself because part of me already knows that this guy is unavailable and that there isn't a chance, so going in already expecting it not to work or them not to be there i have less chance of true hurt or rejection and less expectations. this is how it was with the guy i started this thread about. i really did not expect him to return my feelings and was shocked when he did and yea, of course, i was looking for the ammunition and fuel to leave the bad situation i am in
looking for an out, definitely, BUT that doesn't mean the feelings aren't genuine and i SWORE he would not be the reason for ending my marriage and he is NOT. I HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS. i will end my marriage because it is not healthy for me and i deserve better.
i do think though that a lot of times people here have a tendency to believe that nothing can be good or healthy and be extremely leary of things and extremely cautious and as a result lose out on some really good relationships and things in life. i took HUGE risk with this guy. that's called living. i'm refusing to let fear paralyze me
let's see,so much to comment on. funny, i knew when i started this thread it would be a good one.first, those that know me by now know i have no problem taking criticism or hearing others points of views. if fact, i appreciate that the most and i am the first to admit when i feel it is valid.
i really think that the "not ready yet" comment was truly taken the wrong way. it came after a conversation about how we had to take it slow, and how i wanted more than just sex with him, and about how it was going to take patience. he was merely caught in a moment - as was i- and he was merely reinforcing what i had already expressed and respecting it.
i too wonder why someone would want to get involved with someone who is married or with a girlfriend -and we have both expressed our reservations about that. this is not something that just happened - we have had chemistry for YEARS, i have had a crush on him for YEARS. in fact, even my ah could see it and has been jealous of this guy for years.
i DO think there has to be a valid point with me on the availability thing -because minnie's question about "would you have opened up so much to him if he were available?" and i have to admit that when i thought how i would react if he were totally available i felt this sense of IMMEDIATE PANIC. then i started thinking about other relationships i have been in and i don't know that i have been in one where the person was 100% available. wow!
okay, my first big relationship started with the guy being engaged to someone else (he cheated on me after we got engaged and married someone else one month later). i never loved this guy or even liked him really. i got involved with him because my mom likely him -lol.
second, i really loved the ex i spoke of before*still do to this very day and always will* - major commitment phobic when we were together. he was it for me. we are almost too much alike though (could that be because we both have commitment issues ?-lol). i have talked about him in earlier threads. i believe after that i settled with ah because i just felt like that was it and i guess part of just said if i wasn't good enough for him then i wasn't for anyone else. ten years later and he apologizes too me and is now divorced. also, i believe this is a big part of my need for control now because i had absolutely NO control over that situation with him and have tried to control everything ever since.
in between, here and there, a couple of relationships i got in were with married men. I DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE MARRIED WHEN I GOT INVOLVED WITH THEM and ended it after, but i do have to ask myself what attracted me to these men and why i never asked if they were married.
the only thing i can come up with for this is that my dad was not really available emotionally. he was really a great dad and gave us everything we needed and i knew he loved me, but he was an alcoholic. us kids never really realized this though and he was NEVER mean, his attitude or personality NEVER changed a bit. it really seemed to cause us kids no problems, but now i kinda wonder. he also died when i was only 22. we never knew how much it affected my mom until later. he was truly a great guy, just not very affectionate and in a lot of ways my mom was starving for affection.
another thing is i think i feel safer expressing myself because part of me already knows that this guy is unavailable and that there isn't a chance, so going in already expecting it not to work or them not to be there i have less chance of true hurt or rejection and less expectations. this is how it was with the guy i started this thread about. i really did not expect him to return my feelings and was shocked when he did and yea, of course, i was looking for the ammunition and fuel to leave the bad situation i am in
looking for an out, definitely, BUT that doesn't mean the feelings aren't genuine and i SWORE he would not be the reason for ending my marriage and he is NOT. I HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS. i will end my marriage because it is not healthy for me and i deserve better. i do think though that a lot of times people here have a tendency to believe that nothing can be good or healthy and be extremely leary of things and extremely cautious and as a result lose out on some really good relationships and things in life. i took HUGE risk with this guy. that's called living. i'm refusing to let fear paralyze me
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hmbld, thanks for coming to my defenses. she is right.
oh and i did want to comment on something else - the "would you do what you are doing with that person if your partner were there" i have a different variation of that. i swore that i would never lie to ah and i will not do anything that, if questioned, i would not be able to be honest with him about or that i would feel the need to lie about. i don't believe a partner has to know everything, especially something that would serve no purpose but to hurt them, BUT being able to be honest with myself and him at all times is my moral compass. i have not done anything that i feel guilty about and won't.
the problem is that i do not get the same in return from ah. it is not an equal partnership.
oh and i did want to comment on something else - the "would you do what you are doing with that person if your partner were there" i have a different variation of that. i swore that i would never lie to ah and i will not do anything that, if questioned, i would not be able to be honest with him about or that i would feel the need to lie about. i don't believe a partner has to know everything, especially something that would serve no purpose but to hurt them, BUT being able to be honest with myself and him at all times is my moral compass. i have not done anything that i feel guilty about and won't.
the problem is that i do not get the same in return from ah. it is not an equal partnership.
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how long have i been outside of a relationship by myself? well, i spent four years in virginia for college all by myself-no family, nothing-just me and my cat when i came home from college i lived in an apartment by myself for another four years. so i guess around 7-8 years. of course, there were some relationships in there, but i was still on my own all that time. actually, i am more comfortable living on my own i think. so, maybe it is intimacy issues that i struggle with more?
when i came home from college i lived in an apartment by myself for another four years. so i guess around 7-8 years. of course, there were some relationships in there, but i was still on my own all that time. actually, i am more comfortable living on my own i think. so, maybe it is intimacy issues that i struggle with more?
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
when we find ourselves turning time and time again OUTSIDE of our primary relationship, that is a real indicator that the relationship has some real trouble. when for whatever reasons we take our inner selves to someone other than our partner that indicates our needs are not being met - we have in a sense, already left......once we open that door, it's really hard to shut.
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Originally Posted by hopeangel
oh and i did want to comment on something else - the "would you do what you are doing with that person if your partner were there" i have a different variation of that. i swore that i would never lie to ah and i will not do anything that, if questioned, i would not be able to be honest with him about or that i would feel the need to lie about.
I was not suggesting that everything should be shared, just that there is a natural test in place for appropriate behaviour when one considers whether one would be happy that ones partner witnessed the scenario.
I am guessing we have a very different moral compass, so I shall bow out and wish you all the best.
Last edited by minnie; 10-20-2007 at 10:23 AM.
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Originally Posted by hopeangel
i do think though that a lot of times people here have a tendency to believe that nothing can be good or healthy and be extremely leary of things and extremely cautious and as a result lose out on some really good relationships and things in life. i took HUGE risk with this guy. that's called living. i'm refusing to let fear paralyze me
When I start justifying my own behavior by judging others to put me in a better light, I get to a meeting and take a good, loooooooooooooooooooooooong look at MYSELF.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
when we find ourselves turning time and time again OUTSIDE of our primary relationship, that is a real indicator that the relationship has some real trouble. when for whatever reasons we take our inner selves to someone other than our partner that indicates our needs are not being met - we have in a sense, already left......once we open that door, it's really hard to shut.
I know I need time to learn about me. I cannot move from relationship to another because I doubt it would be a healthy move for me and one likely to cause pain to me and the mythical man. How could I develop an honest, open, healthy, loving relationship when getting involved would mean violating my deeply heald principles? Heck I enough problem reconciling my values/principles with getting a divorce. But until I am divorced and have given myself the time I need to find out who the newly single 50 something Barbara is, I am incapable of forming a relationship that would have a chance to last. It would be too likely to be a relationship gotten into for the wrong reasons.
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hope, this is a sticky wicket, sweety......imo.....please proceed with caution.
you have been through a traumatic time....it would have been very easy for me to fall for some comfort from a man with soothing words when i was going through my trials and tribulations. it would have not been the answer for me....no matter how much i rationalized, romanticized, or had the goose bumpy feeling of being wanted by someone.
just think. think. think.
hugs to you
jeri
you have been through a traumatic time....it would have been very easy for me to fall for some comfort from a man with soothing words when i was going through my trials and tribulations. it would have not been the answer for me....no matter how much i rationalized, romanticized, or had the goose bumpy feeling of being wanted by someone.
just think. think. think.
hugs to you
jeri
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minne, i really don't know your moral compass and you don't know mine so i don't know that they are different.
i am okay totally with criticism and different points of view. that's how we grow. when i'm not okay is when i feel it starts getting nasty.
i came here because i am struggling with this. maybe some of my comments were misunderstood because no one but me knows my situation. all i really meant was that i know myself well enough to not do anything that i would not be able to tell my ah or that i would not feel comfortable with myself. IF ah and i were communicating and if he were here for me emotionally and if he were being a friend to me i would not have a problem telling him any of this. we haven't talked or touched for months except for his occasional spill of anger and hate towards me. my ah is having an affair with alcohol.
and that is a slow death for me if i allow it. i haven't had sex with this other guy and we have not crossed the line for us. do i have feelings yes. did i come here to sort them out, yes. do i know enough to recognize when something is getting out of control for me and i need help with it, yes.
after being numb for so many years i'm glad to know that i am still alive and have needs and feelings and i'm glad to be reminded of that.
i am okay totally with criticism and different points of view. that's how we grow. when i'm not okay is when i feel it starts getting nasty.
i came here because i am struggling with this. maybe some of my comments were misunderstood because no one but me knows my situation. all i really meant was that i know myself well enough to not do anything that i would not be able to tell my ah or that i would not feel comfortable with myself. IF ah and i were communicating and if he were here for me emotionally and if he were being a friend to me i would not have a problem telling him any of this. we haven't talked or touched for months except for his occasional spill of anger and hate towards me. my ah is having an affair with alcohol.
and that is a slow death for me if i allow it. i haven't had sex with this other guy and we have not crossed the line for us. do i have feelings yes. did i come here to sort them out, yes. do i know enough to recognize when something is getting out of control for me and i need help with it, yes.
after being numb for so many years i'm glad to know that i am still alive and have needs and feelings and i'm glad to be reminded of that.
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Originally Posted by hopeangel
my ah is having an affair with alcohol.
Originally Posted by hopeangel
after being numb for so many years i'm glad to know that i am still alive and have needs and feelings and i'm glad to be reminded of that.
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Bottom line for me was (and is) that I got into a long-term relationship with an alcoholic. It was not something that I fell into like a hole in the sidewalk. (much as I would like to believe) There is something about me that attracted and held onto an unhealthy relationship. It was never 'all his fault.' The more I realized this, the more I had to delve deep into who I am and how I got to be who I am. It took a lot of time and I am still getting revelations every day. I am in a relationship now, after two years, but it is very slow and cautious going. EVERYTHING about me needed to be put under a microscope. All those automatic responses, beliefs, thoughts that I knew what was best for me, right and wrong, black and white, EVERYTHING. Turns out, I didn't know half of what I thought I did, about me or the rest of the world. I'm so glad I took some time to sort out how I ended up where I did, cause I don't want to end up there again--even in a different scenario.
L
L
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