sheshe555

Aquarian, thanks for sharing. Best of luck to you.

Barbara52

You might want to point him to this site also. He can find a great deal of information and support for himself.

sheshe555

I will definitely be doing that. My chat last night was sort of my way of breaking him in to the idea of it. We're actually going to have a lot of down time this coming weekend (for once)... so I'm going to go on and show him the site and see if he's willing to try it out.

Thanks

CBrown

SheShe, first I'll say that I agree that all situations are different. I don't believe that all are lost causes either. I always hold hope.

If you mentioned how old you and your SO are, I missed it. It sounds like you're in your 20s. If so, then what is not particularly a problem now may become a monstrously huge problem down the road. Let's say, for argument's sake, that you marry and have children with this man. In your 20s his body is handling these binges fairly well. If he's abusing alcohol and not an addict, maybe he can keep it under control. But if he's an alcoholic it's all going to go to h*ll in a handbasket when he gets older. I've seen the ravages of decades of drinking in my XABF, and it is sickening. Picture Keith Richards.

Now all that being said, I used to have some rip-roaring parties when I was in my 20s. There are still mornings every once in a while where I say "Yikes! What a night!" Am I an addict? No. I just abuse booze sometimes, realize that I don't want to live like that, and go back to my sober ways. I do not need to drink, and my body is not dependent on it. It's not affecting my family, it's not breaking the bank, or affecting any SO.

My advice is to definitely read all you can on here and read up on alcoholism. Read a really great book called "Under the Influence." You might decide he's an abuser or addict, and then you'll be armed with knowledge to make the right decision. Bottom line is, don't let another person take you down with THEIR problems.

sheshe555

Thank you for those words.

That's just about how I am. Add to that I have no problem going to a bar and not drinking. I am for the most part very casual about my drinking... a margarita on a sunny weekend afternoon, a glass of wine with dinner, etc. However, I have my moments now and then where I go all out. I pay for it the next day but man did I have a good time the night before. To me this is "normal". I just wish he was "normal".

Mentioning the age might have helped, sorry. I just turned 31 - he is 29, going on 15 I have always been mentally older than my physical age... but in this case I'm 31 going on 15... mostly because as I mentioned this is the first time I've ever been in love and this is the first time I'm letting my life be affected by someone else. Before him it was just me... I didn't have anyone else to worry about and if I got stressed or upset it was due to something I did. Now for the first time this other person's problems are my problems and I'm letting them be.

Adding "Under the Influence" to the list of books to buy. And as everyone mentions I will read all I can on here and about alcoholism. As Jazzman said way back life can be one tough road for the loved ones of addicts ... and I've just made a right off 'sanity drive' onto that road. So this is the beginning, I do what I can, learn what I can... and hope he does the same... and keep soberrecovery.com on speedial in case I need road side assistance

hope2bhappy

I don't have time to read all the responses, so I might be repeating what some others have already said. I usually try to be as gentle and compassionate as I can with my responses, but I'm going to be blunt, here (because you're tough -- you can handle it, right?).

Based on your writings and descriptions, your BF is an alcoholic, and very possibly an addict, as well. Period. There is no such thing as being a little addicted. Addiction is all the way.

The thing about posting messages on this board, is that you can never see one's face or hear the tone of one's voice, so often times we can be misinterpreted when we write something. Maybe I'm misinterpreting now, but I get the feeling that you think you might be a little smarter or stronger than the rest of us (read what you wrote above) -- almost superior. Like you really have a handle on the situation. You're gonna come out of this just fine... don't worry about me kind of thing. Well, I'm here to tell you, "Dream on." If you love this guy as much as you say/think you do, then you are in it for the long haul -- be it 20 months or 20 years (and my guess is that it will be 20 years).

I have to say that I am a little offended. Do you really believe that the rest of us didn't feel exactly the same way as you do when we first started down this road to hell? Do you think we all sat around saying to ourselves, "Well, I'll just give it another 10 years and see what happens"?

If you really want to impress me (and the others), then follow through with your brave attitude and walk away from it now. Can't do it, can you? My dear... you are not that different from the rest of us.

And if you think that you can't be scared... stick around. You have nooooooo idea how scary this is going to get.

In spite of my bitchiness, above, I truly do wish you the best outcome and hope that you will be the first exception to the rule.

steve11694

Sure you will see some bitterness, resent and anger directed at the alcoholic(ex) in the lives of participants on this forum. And yes, most of them have not gotten their miracle. Have not seen their loved one recover. This does not mean that many do not recover. Many do recover and I know them personally through open AA meetings. My aw may not even see a problem.
Despite what they have posted, their posts contain a lot of hard cold reality and truth about addiction.
I hope you can get your loved one to recover and yes it is worth fighting for. The question you must answer from within, is how long you will fight. Please attend alanon, open aa meetings, and read some books on the subject.

denny57

That's one powerful post, hope2b. Thank you for sharing.

elizabeth1979

Come on now. Thats not what this place is about.

denny57

That's funny, I read this a different way. It IS true it's hard to tell when it's just on the page.

sheshe555

hope2bhappy - you have every right to react to my post the way you did, and I've since apologized for jumping on the defense. However, just like you said things on boards can often be misenterpreted.

To answer your question no - I didn't for a second think I was smarter or stronger than anyone - most definitely not superior, and if I had a "handle" on the situation I wouldn't be here would I? In all honesty how each of you may have felt at one point or another wasn't something that crossed my mind initially... That has definitely changed now after getting some great responses, but in the beginning this was ALL ABOUT ME and MY problem (like even you said, I'm sure many people felt the same way when it first started happening).

I posted because I was searching for resources to control vs. quit and felt attacked with messages that seemed to say 'run away now', 'you don't know what you're in for', etc. I was definitely caught off guard because I didn't come here expecting the kind of initial responses I got. Speak of misinterpretion, right? Also - I know now scare tactic was a HORRIBLE phrase to use, it was not meant literally (tactic being a method used to achieve a desired result). I felt that people were trying to 'put the fear in me' and I am sorry but my first reaction should have been "wow what must these people have gone through to feel that way" instead of feeling attacked.

Like I said, I've since apologized for jumping on the defense... but can you really blame me? You say we're not all that different... didn't many of you get defensive when others tried to open your eyes?

In all honesty this is the type of statement that made me jump on the defense. I'm not saying I'm different, I'm not saying I'm superior, and you know what... you may all be right, I may not be able to walk away, it may get worse... but saying something like that seems like its meant to diminish any hope I have. Why is it so wrong of me to have hope and not think its always immediate a lost cause??

hope2bhappy

sheshe - Your feelings and thinking are not that different than any other "newbie" first recognizing that they have stumbled into the world of addiction.

This is how it was for me: At first, I kept justifying the drinking (it's just party drinking that's getting a little out of hand). It wasn't that bad (just drinking on the weekends at bars and with friends). I can fix this (sit down and talk to him... point out the error of his ways). I will pour it out. I will hide the car keys. I will cry, scream, beg and bargain. Demand that he attend AA. I will give him an ultimatum and threaten to leave... but... I won't go. Because I love him, and I keep hoping against all hope that things will change. And things won't change, because HE doesn't see that HE has a problem. He's in denial.

I'm sure everyone has told you that it is a progressive disease. This is how we get sucked into those 20-30 year relationships. In the beginning, you will feel that this is something you can handle (I did). The longer we are in the relationship, the more feelings we develop for that person. It's hard to leave someone you love... someone you have a history with. The drinking is not THAT bad, and I'm sure I will eventually be able to reason with him. So... on to the next phase -- marriage. Now, you are really committed. Drinking continues and things between you get progressively worse. Situations will arise that involve police and courtrooms and possibly the loss of his job. But this won't stop you from having kids together -- maybe he will even grow up and quit drinking. Now, you are solidly planted in this relaltionship. The years go by.

I eventually got my miracle... my happy ending -- 22 years later, my AH finally sought recovery. It's been my observation, that they don't find sobriety during the beginning stages of this disease. It takes years, if ever.

I think people here are not so much trying to scare you, as they are trying to prepare you for this. There IS hope. But sobriety can take years before it happens. If your BF, during this very early phase of addiction, somehow sees the light and finds sobriety, then he truly is the exception to the rule.

Keep posting and be open to what everyone has to say. Peace and love.

minnie

Hi there sheshe and welcome to SR.

Actually, I do believe that there are some people that can have serious drinking problems and learn to control it and indeed have seen it with two people close to me. That said, they are in their 30s and who knows what might happen in the future. All I know is that they are in a very different place in their heads now than they were back then. I have a sneaky feeling that there is an invisible line, though, and they may have stepped back before they got there. Also, don't forget that SR is fairly self-selecting in the seriousness of the problems at hand - studies show that just over half of problem drinkers quit drinking on their own.

You need to make your own decisions and I would suggest that information is your key, both in relation to alcoholism and to yourself. Counselling played a huge part for me, as did Al-anon for a time. I am a bit if a research fiend as well - there is so much information out there on why we humans do what we do and that helped me get some perspective on the issue. I think you said earlier that you have no desire to get married and I am not certain if that included starting a family, however if you do wish to do that, I would urge you to take timescales into consideration. I know too many women who have waited for their partners to get into recovery, only to find that their fertility has plummetted in the meantime.

FWIW, I see so much of myself in your posts. It's a confusing time and I remember when I thought I could help him beat it too. It was only when I started looking inwards when my life got better, regardless of what he was doing.

Oh, and I would sit on the decision to introduce him to SR. There are tons of recovery boards around and you never know when you might want this place as yours and yours alone.

Good luck and please stick around. There's some very broad shoulders on here.

minnie

Also forgot to mention - there is another approach called CRAFT that is attracting some interest based on results. I don;t have time at the moment to find the best link for it, but this one will give you a flavour http://www.hbo.com/addiction/treatme...ervention.html

respektingme

sheshe555,

I read your post and the replies. I could add my story too, but it's just like the others. 14 years later, 2 kids, 1 stint at rehab and hundreds of AA meetings later, he's still drinking. In fact, I found another vodka bottle this morning while making the bed.

What I have learned is this. There is something inherently different in the way alcoholics are tempted by booze and how the rest of us view booze. Imagine this on a much smaller scale. Imagine that you absolutely love chocolate and are sitting at a table with other people who could care less about chocolate and the waiter plops down a piece of Godiva on the table. The rest could take it or leave it, but you can't stop glancing over there, thinking about eating it while continuing your conversation, craving it while trying to pretend you care what the others are talking about, trying to hide your determination to grab it and shove it in your mouth. The rest have no idea you are going so nuts in your head over this piece of chocolate. Makes no sense to them.

So you and I and the rest of the non-alcoholics on this site (and in this world) look at booze completely differently than alcoholics do. I like a drink now and then and I used to party quite a bit when I was young. But drinking for me back then was not my mission when I went to clubs. My mission was to look cute and have guys ask me to dance. It was convenient to have a drink in my hand. Booze has never been or ever will be something I'd ever loose anything for. It just doesn't mean that much to me. Sure, I can take a sip of a really great Margarita while sitting at a bar with a friend and be in heaven. But it's not because the tequila is hitting my blood stream and quenching my craving. It's because it tastes good, and I'm spending time with a pal.

From what you've already described, it seems you are already aware of the difference between your attraction to booze and his. I have never known of anyone who has been attracted to booze like you describe your bf is, and who has been able to control it. It's not so easy to distinguish between people who are booze-driven and those you aren't at your age. I remember that very well. I used to run with a very large crowd of young people from work. We all used to hang out, shoot pool and drink. But as you get older, you gain more responsibilities and the desire and time to drink sort of dwindles, so you naturally wind up drinking less. But the ones who are alcoholics wind up drinking more. And the more time goes by, the more they drink and eventually they lose control.

I think you'd benefit from reading about the cycle of alcoholism. You'll probably be able see exactly where your bf is in the cycle.

If you choose not to face reality and pretend that he either doesn't have a problem or that he is successfully controlling it, you'll probably wind up where many of us are today. Married with children (who will inevitably suffer) to someone who is drinking themselves into the grave. It's extremely stressful, it will take years off of your life just being involved with it, and you'll wish you had listened to yourself.

I think it's great that you are here asking questions. You might not be persuaded to leave him, but hopefully you'll keep asking yourself questions and stall any major decisions to marry him and have his kids just yet.

respektingme

"Oh, and I would sit on the decision to introduce him to SR. There are tons of recovery boards around and you never know when you might want this place as yours and yours alone."

Amen to that. I've had some very valuable advice from these boards and will depend on it immensely when the day comes (and it will) when I choose to alleviate myself from the position of Wife-of-a-Drunk. I'd hate to have to hide what is going on because I feared he was reading what I wrote.

Signed....... WOAD (lol, who wants to really be a WOAD?? sounds like TOAD. .... sorry, trying desperately to remember my Al-Anon stuff after figuring out AH is very active again, more of the same, bla bla bla, time to pull out the books)

hmbld

Oh dear, this sounds like me so many years ago. All of it sounds like me so many years ago.

These ladies aren't trying to use scare tactics on you, they are providing you with the facts. Alcoholism is a progressive disease, it will get worse, MUCH worse.

My AH is now in recovery, we started right where you are with your bf's drinking pattern. We did wonderful for many years, I spent those years minimizing and rationalizing his addiction because we were making great strides professionally and finanancially. We were the all around, perfect couple, perfect family. The addiction grew, and grew, and grew, and grew. He finally hit bottom, unfortunately, he took us all down with him, in a very big way.

Am I still married t him? Yes. Do I love him? Yes. Would I do it again if I knew then what I know now? Not in a million years. You cannot even begin to imagine what you are in store for if he does not stop drinking.

We are not some bitter old ladies hell bent on changing your mind about your bf. We're merely passing on the reality of what alcoholism is and and what it will do to your life. I used to come on here many years ago and read the horror stories and would honestly feel a bit smug and better about my relationship with the AH, because it was not nearly as bad as what those other people are dealing with. So please don't think I don't understand where you are coming from.

I hope you keep coming back to read, and to maybe learn some handy dandy skills when it comes to protecting yourself from the inevitable.

Pick-a-name

Yup.......first time I went to Alanon about 20yrs ago (at the suggestion of someone) I thought that,too. I decided I really did not need to be there and stopped going and "forgot about it",for years. (AH cut back and put lots of enegry into starting and running a successful business,but did keep drinking and eventually it got worse..) In fact I was naive enough to think that he must not really be an alcoholic because he wan't "that bad"....he wasn't.......then. He is now.

Part of that was my ignorance of alcoholism and part was my gradual acceptance of how it crept into our lives and how my own thinking was changing (and not in a good way).

I found it is true that alcoholism and codie-thinking are progressive...and always getting worse,never better without actively seeking recovery.

Good luck and glad you are here and posting. I'm hard-headed and it's taken me awhile to realize that my/AH's "case" is basically the same as any with alcoholism. I truely thought we were"different"; sadly after 27yrs of marriage and 2 children, I found out I was wrong about that.

steve11694

2001-2002 Survey Finds That Many Recover From Alcoholism
Researchers Identify Factors Associated with Abstinent and Non-Abstinent Recovery

More than one-third (35.9 percent) of U.S. adults with alcohol dependence (alcoholism) that began more than one year ago are now in full recovery, according to an article in the current issue of Addiction. The fully recovered individuals show symptoms of neither alcohol dependence nor alcohol abuse and either abstain or drink at levels below those known to increase relapse risk. They include roughly equal proportions of abstainers (18.2 percent) and low-risk drinkers (17.7 percent). The analysis is based on data from the 2001-2002 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC), a project of the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA).
One-quarter (25.0 percent) of individuals with alcohol dependence that began more than one year ago now are dependent, 27.3 percent are in partial remission (that is, exhibit some symptoms of alcohol dependence or alcohol abuse), and 11.8 percent are asymptomatic risk drinkers with no symptoms but whose consumption increases their chances of relapse (for men, more than 14 drinks per week or more than four drinks on any day; for women, more than 7 drinks per week or more than three drinks on any day).
“Results from the latest NESARC analysis strengthen previous reports that many persons can and do recover from alcoholism,” said NIAAA Director Ting-Kai Li, M.D


http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2005/niaaa-18.htm

hmbld

It is possible to recover from alcoholism, but I am of the mindset of Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. You cannot sustain your sanity on hope alone. I found that out the hard way. I wish I would have gotten myself some tools to help myself deal with it all while it was happening to me and my family. I kind of think that is what everyone is trying to convey.