Pilgrim

IG. I agree with everything FDM said.

And remember to always come back to us with your questions ok? You never have to feel alone in this.

ItalianGirl

He's not irressonsible as a father - at ALL - it's lousy to say it, but it's the ONLY thing he's really getting right right now. He loves his child SO damn much and does EVERYTHING he can for him.

Actually - he doesn't pay for it. His drinking friends do. I know, I see the bank account.



Sorry if I sound defensive but sometimes the things you say make me feel horrible. He IS a good person - who is ALSO an alcoholic. That doesn't make you a bad person - that makes you a person with an addiction.

FormerDoormat

Everyone needs friends like you, so they can mooch off of you financially, ignore you completely, spend more time with their friends at the bar than you, stay out until 3:00 am in the morning, and you'd still worship the ground they walk on and defend their every move. Ok, so not everyone needs or wants a friend like you--but folks who are sick and love taking advantage of others do. In fact, they seek you out.

Alanon helped me learn this. I used to be you. And like you, it used to make me angry when people told me I was a doormat because the truth is, I was a doormat. Have you found an alanon meeting in your area yet?

I don't think you sound defensive. I think you sound scared.

gns

Formerdoormat and Barbara,

Thank you for your insights. Like Denny said, this thread has been very helpful!

ItalianGirl

I'm nervous as hell to go to a meeting .... I don't know what to expect or say or do .... none of that.


I want to go while him and his friend are in their AA meeting - so he doens't know I'm going - not at first at least. He's on his own journey already ....




Also - I read all his paperwork from the retreat (I wasn't being sneaky, he let me) ... He hasn't been labeled as an "alcoholic," he's a social drinker who could BECOME one without getting help now .... A lot of people there had families that they have, or were just about to lose. He saw himself in them - with his son and all - scared the holy hell out of him.

He came home Sunday night - sat on the couch - we ordered pizza (yes, my treat, but I think he deserved it for finally starting this process AND the food at the retreat sounded HORRIBLE!!!) .... and he started talking about everything - he's really got a totally different mind set .... People said a lot of things, and he saw alot of things, that have really made him re-evaluate a lot of his life . . .

Barbara52

Being nervous is normal anytime you are going to try something new. You don't hve to do or say anthing, just listen. If you want to talk you can. Do try a meeting. It can be very helpful.

cagefree

*But it's the ONLY thing he's getting right right now*

Wouldn't it be nice to be with someone who got the whole relationship right? Someone said it perfectly once - I think it was mallow - it's hard to face up to the fact that you come second to a beverage. It's also hard, when you are a codependent, to believe you deserve better and find this completely unacceptable.

We'd like to think our A's are not in any way like Danny Bonoducci (sp?), Lindsay Lohan or Brittney Spears - but they are.

Al-Anon is wonderful, because everyone can write a piece if not all of your story. As I was telling someone earlier, it is a good feeling to know for the most part we all are dealing with the same thing, doing this together. Stregnth in numbers.

We get it when our A's do not and we are giving you a big hug (you feel it?)
Take care of yourself IG.

Janitw

Hello IG and welcome here.......man what a thread.....you all know me....I just have to jump in the mix....hmmmmm....how to say it ????

Sweetie - you have no kids... no mortgage ...... no assets with this young man.....might I suggest that you run and run fast.....

Now I know thats NOT what you are going to even consider doing ... why ? Because I was you a very very long time ago. Okay he is in treatment...good. I hope that he can show you that this treatment center is real...he wouldn't be the first alcoholic who said he was in treatment and really wasn't. And do pay attention to what is known as the 13th step. This is where they hook up with a member of the opposite sex during their meetings or treatment facilities because this new person "understands" them better....and then leaves their loved ones in the dust. So much for loyalty. Hunny.....all we are trying to do here is "OPEN" you eyes....and your ears and everything else you can to "see" what there is to see. You can fall in love with a healthy man just as easily as a sick man. You are sooo young and you have your whole life ahead of you.....please think really think about what you are embarking on. This is a very very progressive disease and its not easy to live with. You have already had your sleepless nights and money worries and chaos and crisis and you JUST met this guy....OMG. Sure...he's doing fine right now cuz why? The courts say he has to...time will tell after the courts have no more hold on him where his ambition truly is. I just hope he doesn't take you down with him. And for goodness sake don't even think about getting pregnant.....after 22 years of living and being married to an alcoholic he left the kids and I for a female addict/alcoholic .... why? Because they thought alike......and he didnt lose one nights sleep over what he had done to his loving and loyal family. He did this year and years after he had been in rehab - so he knew exactly what he was doing and he didnt care less.

My heart goes out to you because you are blinded by your love for this young man. And I hope you stick around here and learn .... click on any of our names and read our histories and how we came here.....it will make you cry and just maybe this is what will turn you around enough to make you run and run like hell.

GiveLove

Ouch! That's sad and sick and perversely funny all at the same time.

Thanks for this thread. Good luck with everything, ItalianGirl.

GL

minnie

You don't think it strange that you are paying his living expenses (and therefore also his child support in a sense) and others are paying for him to drink?

I suggest that you get along to some al-anon meetings. Perhaps at the moment you can see it as a way to understand his recovery?

Cynay

Welcome IG.... I happy to meet you.

In reading your writings I wanted to point out just a couple things for you to think about.... only because I do care about you.

I know you are not ready to leave your Alcoholic and I would be the last person to pass judgement on that one... I cant tell you how many times I "should" have ended a realationship with an Alcoholic and decided to stay because of "love" them.... what I discovered though was this....

I was/am sick. I dont see things the way I should see them, I see things through rosie colored codie glasses. I need to pay special attention to what is going on and really trust the people that have gone ahead of me because without them Im a lost ship... they are my lighthouses.... but beside that.

You wrote.


and you said.....

You also mentioned......

Sweetie..... I say this with all due respect but his ex is not powerful enough to make him do anything. The fact is that he chooses what he is and is not going to do. Im not staying that she is not manuplative and perhaps abuses the situation but I wonder why you are so angry with her when it is his choices to do what he is doing.... he is the one that got himself into the situation with her, he is the one that chooses to do what he does.

This reminds me of times when a Man has an affair and the wife takes him back and she goes on and on about the home wrecker and how could that women do this and how dare she do that.... why is she SO angry with the "other women" not angry that he broke his word... that he stepped out. See what I mean???

Im a single mom and my daughters father is an Alcoholic.... I promise you that I could not MAKE him do anything.... I could not make him pay support (yes I took it to court) I could not make him spend time with his daughter, I could not make him stop drinking and I could not make him love her the way she needed to be loved.....

I was just not that powerful.

FormerDoormat

"He came home Sunday night - sat on the couch - we ordered pizza (yes, my treat, but I think he deserved it for finally starting this process AND the food at the retreat sounded HORRIBLE!!!)"

Adults don't deserve "rewards" for acting like adults. It's expected. I hope you get over your hesitation soon and attend an alanon meeting. It will be an eye-opening experience for you.

denny57

Why doesn't HE have it court ordered?

Mr. Christian

CraigLee

Hi IG,

I was (until recently) with my Fiancee for two years. Situation was not quite as bad as yours (she was a binge drinker and a bit of a home bird). I debated whether she was Alcoholic/Not Alcoholic for the last six months. In the end it didn't matter one bit, the facts were her drinking habits were causing me stress and worry. No DUI's, lost jobs (though she has changed jobs about 10 times in 4 years) etc. Should I have waited for all of the really bad stuff to kick off (if it was going to kick off)?

I only had to ask myself could I live like this long term? The good bits were great and were in the majority but the bad bits were wiping most of these out.

I had two attempts to get out. The first one failed as the promises to get it in control looked sincere. Lasted for a while then it fell to pieces and I got abuse for trying to control her. I can vouch for what people say about the personality changes when trying to stay sober (sometimes you wish they could just get a drink to get back to the person you know).

I spent a lot of time reading and made my mind up that without change I couldn't live like that. I'm not saying that she couldn't/wouldn't change, but when and for what? I am exhausted/drained already, how long and what else in my life would have to be sacrificed?

So my relationship is over. Am I happy to be out? The answer to that is no, I've never missed anyone like this in my life. I am receiving counselling to get over it and gradually the fog is lifting and I am starting to see the wood from the trees (strange how you can't see that at the time). I am also beginning to see things in me that need to change. I am also seeing how I have changed over the two years of this relationship to the point where I wasn't me anymore.

Everyone is different so I can't advise in your case. All I can say is to think about how you have changed for good and bad and decide what is acceptable (being exhausted with no energy/focus on anything but your relationship is definitely bad). The other thing I would say is define your personal limits, make your partner aware of them and then stick to them.

My Fiancée knew that her drinking was causing a problem in our relationship but chose to drink - enough said.

Hope everything works out for the best.

cagefree

AMEN!

QU31

First, I wanted to say I think Jenilee is one of the cutest names I've ever heard!

I really like Kaisober's post, and I will tell you why later. My story is almost identical to yours, except that there is no child involved. Sometimes I feel like the black sheep here because I am different than a lot of people on this forum because I am still with my A. Like you, I moved in with him really fast, didn't pay all the bills but paid much more than I should have, worried about him, obsessed about his shrewish ex-wife (who, by the way is totally out of the picture, but I still obsessed none-the-less), read his recovery stuff (he let me read it, too), and did a lot of the things and said a lot of the things you talk about. We have been together almost two years now. I thought I would tell you what that two years has been like for me, why I choose to stay, etc., so you might get a different point of view and perhaps something similar may be in store for you?

I met my boyfriend right after he got sober. I have a lot of people in my life who joined AA and "got it" and have been fine ever since. But as they say, some are sicker than others, and mine was pretty darn sick. He relapsed pretty quickly. About three months later, he hit a bottom and has been attending AA and working a real program ever since. There was one more relapse, a one time deal, and now he's been sober almost a year. A lot of people think everything is going to be cool once the alcoholic stops drinking, but the opposite is true. There is so much to deal with: the consequences of what they did when they were drinking, anger that they don't have their "best friend" anymore, and the fact that they now have to live with their feelings and can't escape because they don't have the "medicine" anymore.
I was totally wrapped up in his recovery. I attended Al Anon, but it didn't really sink in. Sometimes I would walk into meetings crying. I just knew that if I kept going, things would get better because that's what people said would happen and I had no reason not to trust them.

When he first got sober, he was really depressed and talked about suicide. He would text message me constantly. I would be at work in a meeting, and get a text message that he wanted to kill himself or something crazy like that. In retrospect, why didn't I just turn the phone off? I was pretty sick. For a long time, he didn't show anger towards me, but then he started to get verbally abusive and his temper would flair up over the smallest things. There were so many times when I was SO exhausted, just like you talk about. I would be at work and couldn't think about anything but the next crisis that was around the corner. My life was totally unmanageable.

But, he seemed like he was starting to make progress in AA and his temper tantrums became fewer, plus I loved him and like you said, he has such "potential" that I stayed. And, there were a lot of good times too, we had a lot of fun and got along well. But the disease always rears its ugly head sooner or later.

In the meantime, we were always broke, even though we were both working. He had brought a ton of debt to the relationship and in order for us to keep our house, I "had
" to pay some of those bills (accrued from money spent on his divorce and money he wasted in strip clubs right after his divorce). I actually paid for that stuff! What was I thinking??!! The constant financial strain caused more resentments and stress, which provoked more temper tantrums from him.

Of course, I'd constantly ask myself if I'm doing the right thing, not realizing how much anger is building up. I was constantly thinking "I have done SO much for you....why don't you see it?" "why can't you just realize the way you are!"
I attended Al Anon for awhile, but I was attending for him, rather than myself (you will hear that a lot there). I didn't want to go and it felt like a task. A few months ago, I had a major revalation that pretty much everyone in my life: my mom, my boyfriend, my sisters, were all taking advantage of me and I was getting nothing back in return. I became really, really angry with everyone. Then I started to look at my part in the whole thing. I had allowed all of this. I had caretaken for everyone. I was letting everyone walk all over me. I was so CODEPENDENT! There was a recent long thread on this forum about "teaching people how to treat us" and I had definitely taught everyone that I should be treated like crap.

This was the turning point in my recovery. I didn't want to talk to anyone in my family because I was so angry at them and I wanted to break up with my boyfriend. I started attending Al Anon like crazy, sometimes 2 meetings a day, for the first time going for myself, instead of the boyfriend and other alcoholics in my life. I met some really cool people. People I can't imagine my life without now. And getting back to KaiSober's post, I talked at length about whether I should break up with my boyfriend and two very cool and wise women told me I didn't have to make that decision today. I know that if the time comes for us to break up, my higher power will make that clear to me. And we might break up and we might stay together.
I also have been hearing something else in Al Anon lately...people saying they are so grateful they married an alcoholic because that was what brought them to Al Anon. Even if my boyfriend and I don't stay together, I am grateful because I think about all the lessons I've learned and how much I've grown and I am so thankful for that. And you never know what will happen. My boyfriend was diagnosed bipolar and now has medicine that has pretty much cured the tantrums. I set a financial boundary and said I wouldn't pay that debt anymore and he took it upon himself to declare bankruptcy and foreclose on the house, which has been the biggest blessing because we now don't have any financial pressure and actually have a house we like better than the old one! Things are much better, but they're not perfect. And two people working serious programs means we don't spend a lot of quality time together.

Anyway, that's my story. We're still together. Will we stay together? I have no idea. Only my higher power knows that. I don't know if you got anything out of that story, but I guess one of the morals is, if you do stay, it's not going to be easy!

Whew! I think that's my longest post ever! I have a feeling that others on this forum might think I'm weak for staying, but I have met plenty of people in Al Anon who are also still with their As. The most important thing is that I can say that today I am happy and no longer exhausted. I will end with sharing some things that have helped me keep my sanity:

Al Anon-you might hate it at first but as they say, keep coming back. I am a very happy person and I owe it all to Al Anon (well, that and my zoloft!!!)

Knowing that "this too shall pass"

Knowing that "things are as they should be"

Letting go and letting God

Learning to set boundaries

Lowering my expectations, not only of my bf, but of everyone in my life. Expectations are tomorrows resentments.

Get plenty of sleep. If you can't sleep, figure out a way how, whether it's meditation or taking something. Living with something like this and not sleeping is a recipe for disaster

Exercise, or something to take your mind off it is key. For me it is swimming.

Get support

Concentrate on yourself--it took forever for me to learn that I didn't have to ask him if he went to a meeting, if he shared, etc. I needed to focus on my recovery.

Good luck!

Barbara52

QU31, I don't think you are weak for staying. Lots of people choose to stay with their alcoholic. In many cases it works. For many of us the right choice for us was to leave. One of the biggest factors of course is whether the A in the relationship is indeed working the program/in recovery. I think you will find that most who choose to leave do so because their A is not in recovery.

denny57

I've said it so many times - it doesn't matter if someone stays or goes. What matters is living the best possible life for oneself.

Astro

I was a social drinker too. The more I drank, the more social I got, and I even felt socially acceptable. What I was hiding from my friends, family, co-workers, and peers was that I was mentally, verbally, and emotionally abusing my wife and children. Turning the corner from being a "nice guy" to being Mr. Hyde was part of the progression for me.