I Signed the Papers to List the House - New Dilemma!
Recovering Nicely
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
I Signed the Papers to List the House - New Dilemma!
Hi all,
I had an apptment yesterday 10:15 a.m. with a real estate agent to see my house and possibly list it. AH was supposed to be at work and come home around 1 p.m. Well, AH leaves house at 6 a.m. and comes home 8 a.m. (already drinking) w/bagels, etc. for him, me and the grandkids. I told him that a RE agent was coming, he starts saying all these horrible things I DO TO HIM (from like 20 years ago), how I cheated on him when we were first married and he dealt w/that (I NEVER CHEATED ON HIM, don't even know where he got that one froml), that he knew I'd leave once the kids were grown, always knew that, I JUST USED HIM (duh, I work too and support myself and my kids), how high my Macy's bill is (I PAY THAT BILL FROM MY OWN SPEND MONEY!), and how much HE HAS HAD TO PUT UP W/ME and I have the nerve to leave him cause he "slips" once in a while (tends to leave the fact that they are for 8-10 days straight). He tends to now consider his binges "slips" in his recovery (nice twist to things, huh). Anyway, I handled it well, told him if thinking that way makes him feel better, then that's fine w/me. He leaves, RE agent comes. I started explaining about AH, and how he's an A, don't know at times what his reaction will be, don't want him to be able to accept any offers, etc., and guess what - this man goes to Alanon! He was telling me about his Sunday nite meeting and it's Alanon, Alateen, and where it was in case I wanted to bring the grandkids, etc. Anyway, I got all the papers, signed them, but told him I wanted to have the night to think it over, so he said he didn't want to pressure me and to call him and if I decide he will come to pick up the papers when I am ready. Then AH comes home as he was leaving, didn't say a word. After the RE agent left, AH starts saying how he can't believe I would "throw all this away, our marriage, everything, all cause of he slips and made a mistake." I again said, "if that makes you feel better to think of it that way, then yes". I left w/my grandkids cause we had to go out east to my sister's house (she invited us all last week before his binge). When we got home late last night AH was sitting outside drinking, has the giant cooler already in his truck fully stocked w/beer. I asked him politely if he wanted me to wake him up in the morning for work. He tells me he's not going and from now on we are just going to live separate lives till the house is sold, we can come and go when we want without telling each other, etc. And that's fine w/me. The problem I have with that, and I know I have to go to a meeting today, is that he has no kids to watch, no responsibilities except work, etc., I have to still watch my grands till Tuesday, so yeah, he knows where I'll be and then when Tuesday comes, his tune will change and then if I don't come straight home from work and then go to my Alanon meeting and maybe out for coffee afterward, he will be sitting there waiting to start some stuff w/me like "Oh, where were you, out w/your boyfriend, etc." It's just real frustrating never knowing what is going on and what is not. Also, when I got home last night he said "I'm sure you told your sister about us", I said "yeah" he said "Oh, what did you say, how I wasted money on rehab, well does she know about how you took my car (20 years ago - I moved his car so he wouldn't drive drunk and he considered me "stealing" his car), does she know about your macy's bill, does she know all things you do to me that I put up with??? I'M DONE" He's done!!!! He's done!!!!???? I've been done, but I guess he got the last word there!!!! Anyway, that was my vent, now to my dilemma. I was telling my sister yesterdayabout listing the house and she looked over the paperwork and she said she didn't think I could just sign to list the house, that both parties have to. She said even if they show the house and someone loves my house and wants to buy it for the money, since AH didn't sign the listing agreement, what if he doesn't agree to the offer and won't sign the contract and refuses to sell? She said what if I'm held liable cause they advertised etc. It's almost like I'm commiting fraud. She said what if he did agree, then we're in contract and he's drunk and decides he's mad about selling the house and trashes the house, we will be out alot of money. These are things I have never thought about, but with an alcoholic, as we all know, anything is possible and I can't put myself into any further problems where he will just walk away from it cause he will be drunk and he's NEVER had to suffer any consequences of his actions from drinking, EVER!!! (seriously). I know plenty of you have been thru this (selling the house, etc.), how did you handle it? I seriously am getting frustrated right now. I'm going to go read some pages from Courage until I get some responses. I know it's all God's will, and it's out of my control, but I still need some opinions and guidance. Thanks.
I had an apptment yesterday 10:15 a.m. with a real estate agent to see my house and possibly list it. AH was supposed to be at work and come home around 1 p.m. Well, AH leaves house at 6 a.m. and comes home 8 a.m. (already drinking) w/bagels, etc. for him, me and the grandkids. I told him that a RE agent was coming, he starts saying all these horrible things I DO TO HIM (from like 20 years ago), how I cheated on him when we were first married and he dealt w/that (I NEVER CHEATED ON HIM, don't even know where he got that one froml), that he knew I'd leave once the kids were grown, always knew that, I JUST USED HIM (duh, I work too and support myself and my kids), how high my Macy's bill is (I PAY THAT BILL FROM MY OWN SPEND MONEY!), and how much HE HAS HAD TO PUT UP W/ME and I have the nerve to leave him cause he "slips" once in a while (tends to leave the fact that they are for 8-10 days straight). He tends to now consider his binges "slips" in his recovery (nice twist to things, huh). Anyway, I handled it well, told him if thinking that way makes him feel better, then that's fine w/me. He leaves, RE agent comes. I started explaining about AH, and how he's an A, don't know at times what his reaction will be, don't want him to be able to accept any offers, etc., and guess what - this man goes to Alanon! He was telling me about his Sunday nite meeting and it's Alanon, Alateen, and where it was in case I wanted to bring the grandkids, etc. Anyway, I got all the papers, signed them, but told him I wanted to have the night to think it over, so he said he didn't want to pressure me and to call him and if I decide he will come to pick up the papers when I am ready. Then AH comes home as he was leaving, didn't say a word. After the RE agent left, AH starts saying how he can't believe I would "throw all this away, our marriage, everything, all cause of he slips and made a mistake." I again said, "if that makes you feel better to think of it that way, then yes". I left w/my grandkids cause we had to go out east to my sister's house (she invited us all last week before his binge). When we got home late last night AH was sitting outside drinking, has the giant cooler already in his truck fully stocked w/beer. I asked him politely if he wanted me to wake him up in the morning for work. He tells me he's not going and from now on we are just going to live separate lives till the house is sold, we can come and go when we want without telling each other, etc. And that's fine w/me. The problem I have with that, and I know I have to go to a meeting today, is that he has no kids to watch, no responsibilities except work, etc., I have to still watch my grands till Tuesday, so yeah, he knows where I'll be and then when Tuesday comes, his tune will change and then if I don't come straight home from work and then go to my Alanon meeting and maybe out for coffee afterward, he will be sitting there waiting to start some stuff w/me like "Oh, where were you, out w/your boyfriend, etc." It's just real frustrating never knowing what is going on and what is not. Also, when I got home last night he said "I'm sure you told your sister about us", I said "yeah" he said "Oh, what did you say, how I wasted money on rehab, well does she know about how you took my car (20 years ago - I moved his car so he wouldn't drive drunk and he considered me "stealing" his car), does she know about your macy's bill, does she know all things you do to me that I put up with??? I'M DONE" He's done!!!! He's done!!!!???? I've been done, but I guess he got the last word there!!!! Anyway, that was my vent, now to my dilemma. I was telling my sister yesterdayabout listing the house and she looked over the paperwork and she said she didn't think I could just sign to list the house, that both parties have to. She said even if they show the house and someone loves my house and wants to buy it for the money, since AH didn't sign the listing agreement, what if he doesn't agree to the offer and won't sign the contract and refuses to sell? She said what if I'm held liable cause they advertised etc. It's almost like I'm commiting fraud. She said what if he did agree, then we're in contract and he's drunk and decides he's mad about selling the house and trashes the house, we will be out alot of money. These are things I have never thought about, but with an alcoholic, as we all know, anything is possible and I can't put myself into any further problems where he will just walk away from it cause he will be drunk and he's NEVER had to suffer any consequences of his actions from drinking, EVER!!! (seriously). I know plenty of you have been thru this (selling the house, etc.), how did you handle it? I seriously am getting frustrated right now. I'm going to go read some pages from Courage until I get some responses. I know it's all God's will, and it's out of my control, but I still need some opinions and guidance. Thanks.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Is his name on the deed? If not, he has no input. If yes, He has to agree to everything. Assuming for now that his name is on the deed, you can go to court to force the sale if necessary. That is what I may end up having to do since my AH says he's not ready to sell the house. (Even though he is not paying the mortgage and has no income.) I have hopes he will sign the separation agreement and agree to the house sale, but if he doesn't do it willingly, I do have the right to force the sale thru the court.
Becoming a Butterfly
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 904
I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure that are not obligated to sell the house until a contract is signed beween you and the seller. If you found a buyer and then couldn't sell to them, there aren't any legal consequences.
He's got lots of blame to pass out, but takes no responsibility. You're on the right track. Keep strong.
He's got lots of blame to pass out, but takes no responsibility. You're on the right track. Keep strong.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Unstable State
Posts: 95
It might be smarter to go through the courts and get a separation or divorce first. Sounds like he isn't going to be fair, I would seek legal advice.
My realtor wouldn't do anything until both of us signed including dropping the price of the house.
My realtor wouldn't do anything until both of us signed including dropping the price of the house.
Recovering Nicely
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
I just want my house listed and somehow sold. But I don't have thousands of dollars to pay in legal fees (and I work for lawyers, not matrimonial lawyers tho) and I know how much legal fees can run up and real quick. I am probably going to walk away with nothing, which, in spite of my serenity right now, no amount of program is going to help me get over that one! I'm sorry, but I can't live peacefully with walking away with no money and struggling the rest of my life. It's like trading one bad for the other. But, on a positive note, I just got ready for the day and my hair came out great and I think I look really good today! I just got to have faith that it will all work out.
Recovering Nicely
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
Yes, his name is on the deed, we both bought the house together 15 years ago. Now this morning he tells me that he is going to take a loan out of his 401K so he can move out and pay the rent. His 401K is 3 times more than mine, and according to what I know about divorce law (not that much), I would have been entitled to half. Now I'll walk away w/nothing out of that too. Again, he can walk away w/nothing and still manage living in a room as long as he has his alcohol, I can't. I have work and bills and grandkids. But I will get thru this somehow, I just have to have faith in God and hopefully it will all fall into place.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
If you don't get an attorney to fight back, you may indeed lose a whole lot of money. Yes, they can be very expensive. But is avaoiding that expense now worth what you can potentially lose over the long run?
Since his name is on the deed you cannot take action to sell the house without his consent and cooperation unless you go to court to force a partition sale.
Since his name is on the deed you cannot take action to sell the house without his consent and cooperation unless you go to court to force a partition sale.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
You can find lawyers in the yellow pages and they state if one can have a half hour free. Ask at Al-Anon if anyone knows a good lawyer.
If your state a comunitie property state, if so , and the house was bought after the marriage, he is entitled to half. Which he might sign off his half to you and the kids.
If me I'd get to a lawyer. If he is covered at work where he will get a pension, You might get part of that.
Knowledge is power.
If your state a comunitie property state, if so , and the house was bought after the marriage, he is entitled to half. Which he might sign off his half to you and the kids.
If me I'd get to a lawyer. If he is covered at work where he will get a pension, You might get part of that.
Knowledge is power.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
I'd ask an attorney - but perhaps the order of things should be divorce, with sale of the house ordered to split assets.
Good luck, QT, none of it is easy, but as I'm a little further along I can say it does get calmer.
Good luck, QT, none of it is easy, but as I'm a little further along I can say it does get calmer.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 104
I know in Canada laws may be different, but it is worth a try. Almost all lawyers give you a free consultation. I too did not have any disposable income when I was getting my divorce. When it came time to pay the legal fees my lawyer waited until I received my half of the assets.
Considering the length of time you have been married, I would think your home would be close to being paid off. I am assuming this based on the maximum amortization for a mortgage in my province is 25 years. Even if this differs in your state, there would be some principle that would be split equally between you and your husband after the sale of your home.
Many lawyers will wait, knowing they will get paid once the sale is final. That way you don't have to concur any out of pocket expenses up front. They do all the work for you, in the end after both parties have settled you receive what is owing to you minus their fees.
I hope this helps you, at least a little. I know hard getting through this can be when you are feeling angry and trapped. Please, get a lawyer (and makes sure he/she suits you)
Good luck to you!
Considering the length of time you have been married, I would think your home would be close to being paid off. I am assuming this based on the maximum amortization for a mortgage in my province is 25 years. Even if this differs in your state, there would be some principle that would be split equally between you and your husband after the sale of your home.
Many lawyers will wait, knowing they will get paid once the sale is final. That way you don't have to concur any out of pocket expenses up front. They do all the work for you, in the end after both parties have settled you receive what is owing to you minus their fees.
I hope this helps you, at least a little. I know hard getting through this can be when you are feeling angry and trapped. Please, get a lawyer (and makes sure he/she suits you)
Good luck to you!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by queenteree 
she said she didn't think I could just sign to list the house, that both parties have to. She said even if they show the house and someone loves my house and wants to buy it for the money, since AH didn't sign the listing agreement, what if he doesn't agree to the offer and won't sign the contract and refuses to sell? She said what if I'm held liable cause they advertised etc. It's almost like I'm commiting fraud. She said what if he did agree, then we're in contract and he's drunk and decides he's mad about selling the house and trashes the house, we will be out alot of money. These are things I have never thought about, but with an alcoholic, as we all know, anything is possible and I can't put myself into any further problems where he will just walk away from it cause he will be drunk and he's NEVER had to suffer any consequences of his actions from drinking, EVER!!! (seriously). I know plenty of you have been thru this (selling the house, etc.), how did you handle it? I seriously am getting frustrated right now. I'm going to go read some pages from Courage until I get some responses. I know it's all God's will, and it's out of my control, but I still need some opinions and guidance. Thanks.
You need to get a lawyer, unless he agrees (while sober) to sell the house.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 477
I think your first port of call NOW should be a lawyer. Your desire to sell the marital home implies (to me at least) that your marriage is over. A lawyer will help you draw up a financial agreement and a lawyer may be able to advise on how to prevent your H dipping into his 401K. Get financial protection first.
A good realtor would have asked you about joint ownership in drawing up the papers.
ARL
A good realtor would have asked you about joint ownership in drawing up the papers.
ARL
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Unstable State
Posts: 95
If he is going to cash out a 401k you can stop him with a attorney, read this.
http://www.womansdivorce.com/dividin...nt-assets.html
http://www.womansdivorce.com/dividin...nt-assets.html
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
In the state of VA if both names are on the deed both names are required on any listing agreement with a reputable realtor. Even if you found a realtor to list it w/out his signature he could cause a world of hurt at settlement by not cooperating.
You're entitled to a share of his 401k just as he would be yours, but if it's all gone when you go to sue him... you snooze you loose. I would get really proactive. I agree w/ others that suggested legal advice.
You're entitled to a share of his 401k just as he would be yours, but if it's all gone when you go to sue him... you snooze you loose. I would get really proactive. I agree w/ others that suggested legal advice.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moving east
Posts: 217
Ditto to what Jazzman just said. I know that as a licensed REALTOR I would never list a house deeded to 2 people with only 1 persons signature. And as far as the attorney, it would be better to shell out a little money now than lose a lot of money later. What an awful position to be in. I may be there with you soon though. Good luck.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Let me get this straight. You want to sell a joint asset without the other party's agreement? How would you react if the boot was on the other foot?
As has been said - get legal advice asap. Fees can come out the settlement and I'm afraid that you will have to swallow the fact that legal representation is necessary to protect your interests. It is only through knowledge of your rights and responsibilities that you can chart a course for your future, not to mention avoid being caught up in unsettling accusations and threats.
And I would urge you to seperate out the emotional aspects of divorce and the "business" necessities of separating your lives. There are rules as to what you owe each other financially regardless of prior conduct. Trying to "right the emotional wrongs" through asset division will only enrich the lawyers.
As has been said - get legal advice asap. Fees can come out the settlement and I'm afraid that you will have to swallow the fact that legal representation is necessary to protect your interests. It is only through knowledge of your rights and responsibilities that you can chart a course for your future, not to mention avoid being caught up in unsettling accusations and threats.
And I would urge you to seperate out the emotional aspects of divorce and the "business" necessities of separating your lives. There are rules as to what you owe each other financially regardless of prior conduct. Trying to "right the emotional wrongs" through asset division will only enrich the lawyers.
Recovering Nicely
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
I think I have it all figured out, let's see: First of all, he knows I wanted to list the house, I told him I could do it without him as the realtor said I could. He told me fine, just negotiate the commission. He also told me he would sign a contract if the house was to sell and go to contract. This was all said under the influence of say about 12 beers. Once he gets to about 18 - 20 beers, he will probably become uncooperative. What I have decided, and please, your inputs are very welcome, is today after work I am going to try and see a matrimonial lawyer that I knew years ago. I haven't talked with her in years, but at least I know she is very nice and reputable and won't rip me off. I already have a blank check from our home equity line to pay for it (that was also agreed to by AH during his last relapse). AH was quite angry last night when he said if I want to see a lawyer, he will agree to these terms: 1) I get to keep my 401K and he gets to keep all of his (which has 3 times as much in it as mine), 2) he gets to keep all this settlement money when his lawsuit settles, 3) he gets half of my inheritance from my mother and 4) he gets to keep the upstate place cause that's where he will live. Boy, doesn't that sound like such a fair agreement (LOL)????? I told him by law he gets 1/2 my 401K and I get 1/2 his. I also told him that I am named on his settlement, so I am entitled to something when it does come thru. I further told him that I want that in writing on the separation agreement and if he doesn't agree, he just better hope it settles quickly without going to trial. I told him by law inheritance money is mine, doesn't have to be split and he can keep upstate provided we come up w/a figure that is acceptable to both. I also told him that once we are separated/divorced, he must get his own medical insurance, that that is the insurance company's rule, not mine. Then he said something quite insulting to me, I told him I didn't appreciate it. He later apologized, I told him "it wasn't that important, trust me, let it go, I did." Then he told me not to speak to him, I told him fine, if he wants a "no contact" rule while we are sharing the house, that is fine. I said "let me know your boundaries, and I will respect them, as you will do mine." Then he goes on to say "boundaries, let it go, all this Alanon bull****, boy they got you brainwashed." Don't think he's happy right now, but I'll tell you, if Alanon has me brainwashed, and that brainwashing causes me to maintain my composure and truly, actually, not get upset (which I didn't at all!), brainwash me any day like that. Anyway, so I'm hopefully going to see the lawyer today, I will call the agent and explain that I would like to list w/him but until I have a separation agreement in place, I can't sign the docs. Sound good??
Terri
Terri
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