gypsyrose

Take it easy on me guys. I'm even more fragile than usual. So much for no talking=no fighting. He was civil this morning. I was civil back. This evening he acted like he was trying to be nice (by giving me valium of all things) and I fell for it. Actually, I was happy for any opportunity to be nice and so I thanked him and we started talking. To be perfectly honest, I think I also just wanted to check in with him before going away this weekend.

I am taking the boys to celebrate their birthdays with their friend this weekend. It's been planned for weeks. AH doesn't want us to go. He did, sort of give in on that, I think. It's hard to tell because he was behaving so eratically.

Next month we are going to the east coast to visit the historic landmarks and visit the only father I ever cared about (out of my mother's 4 marriages). We'd lost contact but I found him last year and went to visit him for a weekend. Now I have a chance for him to meet my children. AH was all for the idea. He's always wanted to see the change of colors in the Fall. The plan was for the boys and I to do all the child friendly educational stuff in Washington D.C. and the Williamsburg area the first week and then AH would join us the second week (at a house near my father). Because of AH's work, we knew there was a possiblity that he might only make it for the last weekend. The economy flights were purchased months ago, we signed a week contract for the house near my father and we've spent months planning what we're going to do. Planning has included lots of extra study about the Revolutionary and Civil Wars. Now AH wants us to cut the trip down to one week... well at first he was just complaining about our going, now he says I'm being unreasonable for not cutting the trip in half. I suoose I might beleive him if he hadn't started off with charming me into talking to him again, followed by launching into the kind of name calling I haven't heard in over a year.

I had sensed that he wasn't coming from a rational place early on but I went there anyway. He threated to get a divorce if I didn't change our plans. Then he said he wasn't threatening a divorce, he was just going to do what he would have to do.

I really tried to stay in a loving in honest place. He was so like this other personality we we named PJ for psycho jerk years ago. PJ hasn't been around in a long time. I'm not saying AH turned into a kind and considerate guy but he was a lot better. He claims he's not drinking but he was evasive about the benzos. I only brought it up because I was trying, from a loving place, not confrontational, to understand what might be causing his erratic behavior. He did reluctantly end up to admitting to three ativan a day and alternating valium and xanax every other day. So, ativan and valium one day, ativan and xanax the next. It was this surreal conversation where we'd be communicating one second and then he'd be cursing me the next. I was on my best behavior as far as staying calm and saying things from the place of being my best self. But I still allowed myself to get sucked into his nasty little trap.

He did agree to go with me to couselling. I was surprized until he said it would be like presenting his case to a judge or jury... he knew there wasn't a counselor out there who wouldn't take his side. Spoken like a true sociopath.

The poor daddy just wants to have some time with his children before they grow up act might work on someone who didn't understand that he's just doing this to try to manipulate me. Maybe he has suddenly decided he wants more time with the boys but this game he's playing around it is totally manipulative, controlling and abusive.

I told him that while I would discuss arranging more time for him to be with his boys, I wasn't going be manipulated into rewarding his behavior by changing our plans.

He brought up past ugliness from over two years ago, when he was his most crazy and I was most codependant. Okay, I was perfectly happy to leave that in the past but since it was on the table, I told him I'd found out what he did back then and he acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe he really doesn't remember or maybe he's pullng his deny everything and spread counter accusations routine. I didn't fill in the details and he didn't act at all curious about them so he probably knew exactly what I was talking about. I pointed that out to him and he kept quiet.

I know there's a man I love hidden in there somewhere, hidden by an awful, toxic sickness. It shouldn't have to be this way. We'd been doing so well.

And my heart is breaking, because my, very sensitive, older son has been hearing some of this recently and tonight he woke up, came out of his room snd signed for us to be quite.

AH is saying that according to his attorney, if we get a divorce he'll get the boys for the weekends. I don't believe he'd get more than every other weekend but even that's too much. The disruption in their lives would be terrible... the whole scenario would be terrible. But I can't give into his abusive, manipulative behavior. That would be a terrible life lesson for the boys.

I hope this will pass and we'll move past it like we have so many other things before. Both of us have lived through and overcome a lot in our lives. We should be able to overcome this sickness.

I have to find a counselor quick... maybe someone who can get him on some SRRIs because I think it may be our only chance.

And I have to accept that it might not work. For me, looking at things from where I sit right now, it wouldn't be bad... but for my sweet boys... this is so not what I wanted for them.

Barbara52

{hugs} You have way too much on your plate right now.

First, I wouldn't change my travel plans if it were me. They've been set for a long time and there is no reason to disappoint your sons because your AH is being manipulative.

Second, consult with an attorney and find out where you stand legally. Getting difinitive information on your legal rights and what the likely scenarios are will give you the power of information. Then you can think about what you want to do for yourself and your boys.

And be gentle with yourself above all. You deserve better in your life and you are the only one who can give it to yourself.

keepingmyjoy

If you planned to go, go. My AH did the same thing regarding 2 family reunions. I went anyway and he did nothing. All his threats, nothing. Actually had flowers on the table when I got home! Don't disappoint the boys.

Just something from me, who walked out once before on abusive A ex with nothing but my purse, car, and daughter's hand in mine: Even though it might be hard to split, you do survive and my daughter benefited totally with the peace and joy of not dealing with the crap.

Get legal advise, and when he brings up divorce, say "OK, lets". Shuts em up in an instant!

gypsyrose

Well, I managed to get an hour and half of sleep. That should be enough to clean out the truck, pack, drive a couple of hours and spend the day at a fair with my boys and two of their friends... right? I'd love to cancel but...

A:I already cancelled one visit with this family several weeks ago. AH had just started complaining about us being away too much... we had been away two weekends in a row and then he'd gone hunting the following weekend so, knowing we had this birthday event coming up, I kept the boys home that weekend. Even if it weren't their birthday celebration, flaking out again would be damaging to the relationship between our families.

and

B:This IS their birthday celebration we're talking about. I have got to make it through this weekend for them.

Reading through other posts this morning... sounds like I'm not the only one having an unusually rough night. Hugs to you all. Sorry everyone's having such a hard time but glad you're all here and I'm not sitting here alone in the dark by myself.

I'm supposed to schedule a meeting for counseling. He says he's available on Monday. Part of me thinks maybe we should go straight to a marriage mediator... someone he's recommended for other people... she supposed to help people both people trying to salvage their marriages and with facilitating divorces when all else fails. He was so ugly to me tonight, reminding again me of just how bad thing had once been before... Even if things do get better again this time, right now I feel like I'll always see him as having this ugliness just under the surface waiting for an opportunity to raise it's head again.

We don't need a counselor. We need a crisis intervention team. A marriage mediator for legal perspective, a addiction specialist for obvious reasons, someone who can perscribe medication to help balance his brain chemistry... I'm serious. One long meeting with a team approach could save us all a lot of time, money and energy in the long run.

He once or twice kinda sorta apologized for some of the things he did in the past. But he's very clearly taken it back more than once since then. At this time, he takes no responsiblity for ever abusing me in any way.

Makes it hard for me to believe there's any hope at all for our family.

Happy birthday kids, mommy and daddy are getting a divorce. I feel like throwing up.

LaTeeDa

I understand your thinking because I was there about 2 years ago. It is not your sickness to overcome. There is nothing you can do about his sickness.

What he admitted to you as far as how many pills he is taking is likely only the tip of the iceburg. Addicts will usually admit to only a fraction of the actual truth when it comes to how much. (I only had two drinks!)

You are absolutely right that you need to find a counselor. Not for him or the both of you, but for you. And it wouldn't hurt to consult with an attorney to learn your options and your rights.

Your boys are already suffering from this situation, likely a lot more that just what you see. Children know a lot more about what's going on than we care to admit to ourselves in situations like this.

And, above all, remember that it is a progressive disease. It will not get better until (if) he admits there is a problem and chooses a path of recovery.

You didn't cause it.
You can't control it. (really-you can't)
You can't cure it. (again-really)

L

parentrecovers

slow down, gypsy! take it one thing at a time..

blessings, k

LaTeeDa

The other thing that really jumps out at me here is his controlling. He threatens divorce because he knows you fear it. If you talk to an attorney and find out what your rights are, what options are there for you, you will fear it less. That gives you your power back. And takes away his ability to control you.

It seems to me you are doing great in living your life and going about your business. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could do all that without so much fear?

L

sunshine321

((((( ))))) Agree with L and K. Arm yourself with knowledge and slow down and take one thing at a time. Go on your trip this weekend and enjoy the moment. You don't have to figure it all out right now. The thing about addicts is they rarely have the energy to do what they say. It's not about action at all. They are all talk.

Jenny

gypsyrose

I'm still leaving for the weekend. Just getting a late start to take time to follow some of your advice.

GiveLove

I'm completely with La. It is very difficult to say with any certainty that divorce & shared custody is going to be more damaging to your kids than the current stressful, abusive, controlling/arguing situation is (and if you don't think they're picking up on this, I believe you're wrong...kids have the most amazing radar)

Why isn't your husband seeking help? How is it that he is allowed to continue on his current path, do his best to manipulate and control you, and have no boundaries and no responsibilities in the matter?

There is great happiness waiting out there for you and your boys. It may or may not include remaining married to your husband (there are many members of SR who have divorced their AH but found great friendship and acceptance with them as a result!)

Have a most wonderful weekend, and trip to DC. I wish I were going!!
GL

gypsyrose

Well, he just walked in and asked me when we were coming back. I told him I didn't decided yet. He asked what I meant by that. I said I couldn't live with his behavior and hadn't yet decided what I was going to do.

Right in front of my two boys, he said if I wasn't back by Sunday we would file for divorce. Then he turned around and walked out the door. And now he's calling my cell phone... repeatedly. I'm insulted that he thinks I would answer it.

My 11 year old put his hand on his 10 year old autistic brothers shoulder and, while holding back tears, told him it would be alright.

I told them I was sorry they had to hear that and gave them a short pep talk. Told them we were still going to thier friend's house. I just have a few thing I need to do before we can go.

LaTeeDa

I'm so sorry you are in this position. Unfortunately, he's only doing what addicts do. Trying to make it your fault/the kid's fault. Again with the manipulation and control. Very important to make sure your sons understand that, no matter what happens, it is not their fault. Marriages and marriage troubles are between adults. My counselor stressed this to me again and again. I still remind my children, two years later, that it is not their fault, there is nothing they could have done to change things.

(((((hugs)))))

L

denny57

As AH's disease progressed he became financially abusive. Though my contribution to our company was massive - raising literally millions for our projects - it was his work that brought the actual cash into the house. The last few years of our marriage he started to call it "his" money and by the last year I was believing the same; I could no longer see my worth in the relationship.

Today we are still in a divorce trial for one reason: "his" money (he had funds paid to our company diverted to himself). I honestly believe it isn't so much about abusing me - I'm doing fine - but in his illness, where his life is spinning completely out of control, it's the one thing he can tell himself he has control over. I see it more as desperation. I've heard it said a million times: desperate people do desperate things.

My sponsor's sponsor always says to me: never underestimate the disease.

gypsyrose

You all are amazing. You have helped me get through this crisis. What a strange 12 hours. Wait 'till you hear what happened next....

He came back home, apologized profusely and said everything in his power to try to fix things. I knew this was just another way of him trying to control things and I wouldn't accept his apology without first clarifying my boundaries. There's too much detail to go into right now, though I should write it down because this whole thing could be the basis for a Phd.. But I do need to get us out of here so we can go enjoy our weekend.

I told him I wanted to believe that he was two different people, that the one I loved was in there somewhere because... the only alternative was that he was some kind of evil genius and that he was just faking it any time he acted nice but... I was beginning to give up on him.

We agreed that he can't talk to me the way he did last night and that if he does I am within my rights to take the boys and go. We agreed that it was okay for us to go away for the weekend and on our east coast trip. We agreed that for future trips, it was okay for us to be gone for 12 days as long as there was only one weekend involved. And we agreed that I would consult with him if there was a reason for a longer trip and that he would be able to take part in the decision.

In other words, nothing has changed except that he won't use the travel issue as an excuse to fight anymore.

Mostly, he wanted to resolve things so I wouldn't call his ultimatumn bluff.

One of the issues we cleared up was that, after years of dealing with his challenging behavior and repeatedly forgiving him... Yes I do feel entitled do whatever I need to do with our boys for us to enjoy life. We are never going to be a typical family. This is the way we handle things. A little distance is good for us.

I don't know if I expressed what happened well but the moral of the story is... hold your ground, make those boundaries and don't back down... he so caved.

I know it's not "happily ever after" but it is another chance to keep our family intact while still enjoying life. We can do so much more for our boys if we keep it together.

LaTeeDa

I'm going to paste something below that addresses this.

I'm so sorry to hear that nothing has changed. My experience in extracting promises from an addict is they will say anything, and then do whatever they want.

I know you are probably off enjoying your weekend and that is definitely a good thing.

I'm going to go ahead and paste something borrowed from the Friends and Families of Substance Abusers forum below. My marriage followed the pattern explained in this article even though physical abuse wasn't part of it. It appears from your posts that yours is following the same pattern, too. It doesn't sound like you are ready to stop the cycle yet, but I know there are many out there who may be reading this thread and relating it to the very same cycle in their own circumstances. Even if you are not being physically abused, if you substitute 'manipulation' or 'control' or 'verbal abuse' for the references to physical violence, you might be surprised to see that you are in the same cycle. My hope is that someone will be helped by reading the following:

L

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Lenore Walker first identified the cycle of violence in her book The Battered Woman based on her research of women who had been in abusive relationships. Walker describes three phases of the battering cycle: the tension building phase, the acute battering incident and the honeymoon phase.

THE CYCLE OF ABUSE

Phase I: The tension Building

During this phase, the tension between a couple builds and arguments erupt easily. This is when accusations are made, everyday occurrences become unbearable disturbances and tension in the environment increases. There may be violent verbal outbursts, strained silences or sulking. Many women describe this as "walking on eggshells".
This phase may last only a day or two, or it could go on for several months or even years


Phase II: The acute incident

This is when the actual "fight" occurs. There may be slapping, pushing, hitting, biting, kicking, or shoving. There may be threats or the use of a weapon, sexual abuse, or even murder.

Phase III: The honeymoon

In this phase of the cycle, the batter makes many apologies and promises that will never happen again. There may be a honeymoon-like euphoria while the couple "makes up" with presents, flowers, romantic dinners out. The victim begins to hope that the batterer is genuinely remorseful, and chooses to believe that the violence will not happen again.
This phase slowly dissolves into the tension building phase, and the cycle repeats itself.

The duration of each phase varies, and will change over time. The Honeymoon Phases will become shorter, as the abuser begins to threaten even worse harm if the victim dares to leave. The Tension Building Phase quickly absorbs honeymoon time and often completely replaces it. As the abuse becomes more frequent and severe the couple moves through the cycle more quickly. Most abusive relationships begin with verbal abuse, and then move into violence, which escalates and becomes more deadly the longer the couple is together.

Many victims of abuse hang on to the belief that "the real person" will someday return for good. But they do not realize that the abuser is "the real person."

gypsyrose

The boys and I had a great time away visiting fiends this weekend. Came home exhasted but still managed to get to therapist this morning. Can't go to this guy long term, hour and a half drive this morning, no way I could do it regularly. But, he specializes in domestic abuse issues so I went with a clear information seeking agenda. Good reality check regarding AH and perspective on his moods and behavior.

The reality is AH has not been as bad this past year. It may be that he's traded addiction and this recent episode is part of that new progression. Time will tell. AH says he will do something about his behavior this time, like he did about alcohol. Time will tell.

Gotta go for now.