ICU

The concept of ‘we teach others how to treat us’ has always eluded me. So, with an ‘open mind’ and a true ‘willingness to understand’, I’m putting this out there.

Just what the heck does ‘we teach others how to treat us’ mean?

See, I look at it this way. On the ‘giving end‘, I strive to treat people with dignity, respect, compassion, try to be polite, kind, etc. That’s the core of who I am. That’s what I believe in. I am not that way because of Tom, Dick or Harry has trained me to treat them that way. I treat them like that because that’s ‘me’!

So when I look at it from that perspective, I have to say I disagree with ‘we teach others how to treat us’. To me that just sounds like we are responsible for not only our behavior, but the other person’s as well. It seems a little too codie-like for my comfort level. (Perhaps that's the part that's got me confused....yeah....it is)!!!

Now, to the 'receiving end'....

If it were put, 'we let others know what we find acceptable vs. not acceptable' insofar as their behavior goes, 'that' I understand, and get. But is that really teaching them how to treat us? That still rubs me the wrong way. I'm not sure why exactly, but it does.

OK, so, that’s as far as I’ve gotten with this concept that has wreaked havoc with my brain since I first read it here. It’s been a couple of years, and I’m still stuck thinking the same way.

Can someone shed some light? A pre-barney level might be a good place to start, LOL!

best

It rubs you the wrong way because of expectations. I treat others with respect, they should do the same...but life happens.
You understand it right. We let others know what we are willing to put up with if we set boundaries.
An example...
Excuse me but we don't talk that way in my house...I just set a boundary that tells people I will not accept certain kinds of language in my house. If I ignore what they say and don't show them I am bothered by such ..I am allowing them to do as they please. I can be a push over or I can stand firm with my boundaries...talk like that and I will ask you to stop or I will leave and not listen to such or even ask you to leave my house. My actions can say...I don't like that or my actions can say...what you are doing is ok by me..
Every action has a cause and affect. My boundaries if used correctly can be the affect that effects others understanding of what I will put up with.

ICU

I don't really think that expectations has anything to do with it. But I will give it some thought.

I think it has more to do with like I said, it gives me a feeling of being responsible not only for my behavior, but their's as well. Maybe I'm tripping up on the word responsible??? I'll ponder that one too.

Thanks Best, you're giving me food for thought.

good_luck

Ugh. I completely agree with the "teach others how to treat us" thing. I hate, hate, hate it. I think that it places an undue, unfair amount of blame on a wronged party. It's from Dr. Phil, and people just repeat it like it's from a credible source. ugh again.

Here is the problem. I feel like I get enough quacking blame from my special A. Why is it that we can't cause, control, or cure them/it except for in the case of how they treat us? It's absolutely absurd.

Sure, I get that if someone treats you badly, you have the ability to walk away and not have them treat you ANY way again, but that is a totally different concept than the mistaken misappropriation of their behavior to someone else's actions.

Somewhere along the line, my ex may have learned how to treat me, but it wasn't from me. By the same token, the gazillion people in my life that treat me well haven't learned that from me either. They are adults, I am an adult, and we all make choices about how we are going to behave at this point. I really believe that, and I think that worrying about what I did to make someone act abusively towards me isn't terribly helpful. Not only does it minimize his accountability, but it leads to the delusional thinking of "well, if I did something differently, maybe he would be a different person...blah blah blah."

Don't get me wrong here. I did things wrong. I contributed to an unhealthy dynamic. But that is a much different and more complicated thing than a trite, tired slogan created to boost ratings for some pop-psych fraud in order to pay for his wife's plastic surgery.

Bah.

best

No

More like when we go outside...
if it is raining... a raincoat is a boundary we use.
if it is cold... a winter coat is a boundary we use.

We can't control the weather so we use boundaries to keep our space comfortable.
We can't control other people so we use boundaries to keep our space at peace.
When we don't use boundaries, we are saying to others...do what ever you want (good or bad)

mike_mass

I think it comes down to setting firm, loving bounderies and having the courage and energy to stand by them.

cookconfay

To me it means this.....I can tell you what is not acceptable but until I show you what I mean by that....i.e. kicking you out, breaking it off if you use/drink and abuse me....then how does that person "really" know I mean it's unacceptable? Unacceptable means...I will NOT accept that sort of behavior around me, in my house or whatever.

I like it, I use it and I believe it.

ICU

YES!!!! I feel exactly the same as you do goodluck! That's where I'm having trouble with that saying too. I was going to get to abusive behavior as another example, but you beat me to the punch (perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, LOL)!

Domestic violence counseling informed me that 'nothing' I did or said could justify his physical abuse towards me. That was 100% on him. Alanon taught me I'm not responsible for his alcoholism either. That's within him, and that began long before I was in the picture.

Now, I'm assuming that someone might come along and say by staying for as long as I did, I taught him that it was ok to do this. Not meaning to sound like a child here, but, well, he started it from the very first punch, slap, kick, choke, whatever the case may be. It was within HIM to be that way in the first place. My staying did 'not' teach him to treat me this way.

I still have an open mind and am willing to hear other input. There's a piece of the puzzle I feel that I am missing (at least I can admit that)!! ;-)

LaTeeDa

I totally agree with you ICU. I think maybe it's just semantics. Maybe we should say that by accepting bad behavior, we perpetuate it. Or, to put it another way, we don't teach people how to treat us, we teach people that it's okay to behave unacceptably, because we accept it.

That's my take on it, anyway. I am very interested in seeing what others have to say about this, too.

L

QU31

Unfortunately, other people don't always model our behavior! But I don't think that phrase is talking about behavior modeling. Do a google search on operant conditioning and the phrase makes more sense.

Think of going through the checkout at the grocery store. The kid in your cart starts screaming bloody murder because he wants a candy bar. To get him to stop screaming, you buy him the candy. What is going to happen the next time you're in line at the grocery store? That kid is probably going to scream bloody murder again to get his candy bar, because you taught him that is how to get what he wants.

Same thing with the alcoholic and/or abusive spouse. They get drunk and act abusively, but if we forgive them when they sober up, tell them they can have another chance, set boundaries which we don't follow through on, etc., they learn they can get away with the behavior again and again..... That is what we taught them by reinforcing their behavior!

good_luck

It's not just semantics. There is no such thing. In a phrase repeated so often, with so few words, every one counts. I like words, and I don't like them being used this way. It's careless.

best

No it didn't and your intent was.... Commitment and love will heal things?
But by staying you were saying... your actions are acceptable to me, keep doing it.

Yes I fully understand your intent had nothing to do with beng accepting of his actions but that is what gets projected. Abuse is a trap and the hole just gets deeper with each time a person tries to fix it. His actions are wrong. You can't change him and once in the trap of an abusive relationship that you try your hardest to fix...you find that your staying is telling him it is ok to use you as his punching bag.
Took my sister over 25 years before she said enough was enough.

QU31

I TOTALLY taught my boyfriend how to treat me. Admitting that was a really tough one to swallow. But, also totally freeing. I'm less angry now that I'm accountable for what my part in our dysfunction. I don't think Dr. Phil is careless in coining that phrase--I just think he's a straight shooter and sometimes the truth hurts. It did for me at least.

wpgwoman

I believe, in my humble opinion, that this possibly stems from the "Golden Rule"
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," (raised Catholic)

I do not believe that it is meant to be used as a way to teach others necessarily, how we want to be treated. You can treat everyone you have met in your life time with love and respect, doesn't mean it will be reciprocated.

I believe these words are meant to be a basis of our own moral standards. It is an essence of who we are and what we stand for as a individual.

"I was kind and loving to my partner because that is who I am, and yet he treated me like crap" What happened to the Golden Rule??? You did follow the rule, you did treat someone exactly how you would like to be treated, with love and kindness. But others have free will. They do not necessarily have to share the same morals, values and beliefs. The Golden Rule may not mean anything to them. They may be selfish, self-centered people who believe the world revolves solely around their wants and needs.

Hope that makes some sense to you and I wasn't way out in left field on that one.

Latte

For me it means that I set the boundries, and if I don't then I am responsible for the consequences. It may not mean that for someone else, I'm just sharing how I use that in my life.

minnie

Hi there guys!

I haven't looked in here for ages, and whaddya know, up comes one of my fave topics! I posted the passage from the Dr Phil book here http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-treat-us.html

My take is that I can only teach someone how I wish to be treated. I can't teach anyone how to treat Joe Bloggs down the road, except perhaps by example, however I can teach a person what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour around ME. If I say nothing, do nothing, or as was often the case, give mixed signals when a person is behaving inappropriately around me, then what are my actions (inaction is still an action) saying to that person?

Of course, I have to let go of the expectation that stating my boundary will make any difference to their general behaviour. A boundary needs a consequence and I have to be prepared to use it. With most people in my day to day life, stating the boundary is enough. In fact, it is rare that any of us have to even do that with "normies" because the sdocial contract is clear enough. All of that goes out of the window when dealing with those with no concept of social norms.

QU31

Couldn't have said it any better myself Latte. And I think that is just what good ole' Dr. Phil meant.

ICU

Just to clear things up, he has been my ex for awhile. The example of physical abuse was just used as an example, and admittedly, probably a huge part as to why I feel the way I do about this subject.

Actually, I didn't just stay and accept it. I found another way. My actions consisted of communicating that it was unacceptable by calling the police several times and having him removed/put in jail, go to court, court-ordered anger manangement therapy, etc.

In that respect, I took action and the courts made him suffer the consequences of his own actions. Through those avenues, counseling, etc, and yes, with commitment and love, I gave it every reasonable opportunity.

So no, I don't think by 'my' staying it taught him I would accept it, to the contrary. Yet, he still was 'that way'....and I left. Taking action in my own defense 'taught him nothing'. In my own mind, that's where the concept fails....at least in this particular example.

Just a heads up...abuse is just an example used here and I don't really want it to be the sole focus of this thread. I know, I know....I continued with it once it was brought up, LOL!

I'm beginning to think I might figure out which came first, the chicken or the egg, before I ever wrap my brain around this one, LOL!

LaTeeDa

BUT (yes, I know, I have a big BUT ), you still stayed. He 'learned' that you would stick around....

Maybe if you take out the concept of justifying his behavior, or the concept of right and wrong (cause I don't see that as part of the concept, here) and just look at it from a "Pavlov's Dogs" type of perspective, it would make more sense.

L

ICU

Ok, true, I stayed, for awhile, but (don't feel bad, I have a big but too, LOL) not without boundaries.

For example, when he abused me, I called the police and he was arrested. That was saying 'if you do this, which I find unacceptable, this is what I'm going to do'. Not a tit-for-tat or out of revenge kind of thing, but rather a statement of 'this is something I'm not going to accept'. Is that not a boundary? I mean, leaving the relationship can't be the 'only' boundary. It can eventually become the final outcome, but is everyone's boundary 'leaving'?

I'm really sorry I'm so stumped on this. I've struggled with it for a long time, I guess I can't expect to get it right off the bat now either!!

I'll think on it for awhile longer and come back to it later. I really do appreciate all of your insights though, thanks!