What does 'we teach others how to treat us' really mean?
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
Dr. Phil is pre-Barney level.
Ngaire
Ngaire
Originally Posted by ICU 
The concept of ‘we teach others how to treat us’ has always eluded me. So, with an ‘open mind’ and a true ‘willingness to understand’, I’m putting this out there.
Just what the heck does ‘we teach others how to treat us’ mean?
See, I look at it this way. On the ‘giving end‘, I strive to treat people with dignity, respect, compassion, try to be polite, kind, etc. That’s the core of who I am. That’s what I believe in. I am not that way because of Tom, Dick or Harry has trained me to treat them that way. I treat them like that because that’s ‘me’!
So when I look at it from that perspective, I have to say I disagree with ‘we teach others how to treat us’. To me that just sounds like we are responsible for not only our behavior, but the other person’s as well. It seems a little too codie-like for my comfort level. (Perhaps that's the part that's got me confused....yeah....it is)!!!
Now, to the 'receiving end'....
If it were put, 'we let others know what we find acceptable vs. not acceptable' insofar as their behavior goes, 'that' I understand, and get. But is that really teaching them how to treat us? That still rubs me the wrong way. I'm not sure why exactly, but it does.
OK, so, that’s as far as I’ve gotten with this concept that has wreaked havoc with my brain since I first read it here. It’s been a couple of years, and I’m still stuck thinking the same way.
Can someone shed some light? A pre-barney level might be a good place to start, LOL!
Just what the heck does ‘we teach others how to treat us’ mean?
See, I look at it this way. On the ‘giving end‘, I strive to treat people with dignity, respect, compassion, try to be polite, kind, etc. That’s the core of who I am. That’s what I believe in. I am not that way because of Tom, Dick or Harry has trained me to treat them that way. I treat them like that because that’s ‘me’!
So when I look at it from that perspective, I have to say I disagree with ‘we teach others how to treat us’. To me that just sounds like we are responsible for not only our behavior, but the other person’s as well. It seems a little too codie-like for my comfort level. (Perhaps that's the part that's got me confused....yeah....it is)!!!
Now, to the 'receiving end'....
If it were put, 'we let others know what we find acceptable vs. not acceptable' insofar as their behavior goes, 'that' I understand, and get. But is that really teaching them how to treat us? That still rubs me the wrong way. I'm not sure why exactly, but it does.
OK, so, that’s as far as I’ve gotten with this concept that has wreaked havoc with my brain since I first read it here. It’s been a couple of years, and I’m still stuck thinking the same way.
Can someone shed some light? A pre-barney level might be a good place to start, LOL!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
OK, I'm back, LOL! I had to get this out here while it is still fresh in my mind.
Could it be that maybe ‘we teach others how to treat us’ might apply in some, many, or I'll go out on a limb here, perhaps most situations, but, not ALL situations?
I understand the boundary vs no boundary scenario and how that might show people what we will accept, or, what our limits of acceptance are! But when you do have boundaries in effect, AND you enforce them, AND the consequences get upped as their behavior continues...then perhaps they are exceptions, because 'that's just who they are, regardless of boundaries, consquences, staying, or going. Maybe I'm applying the concept of exception to the general mass and that's where my confusion comes from.
Could it be that maybe ‘we teach others how to treat us’ might apply in some, many, or I'll go out on a limb here, perhaps most situations, but, not ALL situations?
I understand the boundary vs no boundary scenario and how that might show people what we will accept, or, what our limits of acceptance are! But when you do have boundaries in effect, AND you enforce them, AND the consequences get upped as their behavior continues...then perhaps they are exceptions, because 'that's just who they are, regardless of boundaries, consquences, staying, or going. Maybe I'm applying the concept of exception to the general mass and that's where my confusion comes from.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by ICU
Could it be that maybe ‘we teach others how to treat us’ might apply in some, many, or I'll go out on a limb here, perhaps most situations, but, not ALL situations?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by Jazzman
Well you beat me to it, just what I was going to try to say. I think in extreme situation where there is abuse, the original intentional meaning of the phrase gets lost in the translation.
And further to what you said, here is something I pulled from the link that Minnie provided a few posts up!
Originally Posted by liveweyerd
In his book about relationships, he does make some exceptions and caveats regarding certain kinds of relationships, including those with addictions and or abuse. Frankly he says these situations are not amenable to becoming healthy through these approachs.
P.S. As always...thank you Minnie!!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by ICU
I mean, leaving the relationship can't be the 'only' boundary. It can eventually become the final outcome, but is everyone's boundary 'leaving'?
Just another random thought,
L
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Good topic.
This is super humorous to me and I couldnt agree more.
I had a boatload of boundries that didnt involve terminating the relationship. None were sufficently shielding me from his behavior though. Leaving was the only one that worked.
I don't believe I taught my ex how to treat me. I believe I taught him what I would tolerate with my reactions to his actions. My actions and my words didnt match. I was saying "Im not taking this crap from you!", but my actions didn't back that up.
Seems pretty basic to go back to actions talk and words whisper, but thats how I break everythign down is by looking at are those 2 matching.
It's from Dr. Phil, and people just repeat it like it's from a credible source. ugh again.
I mean, leaving the relationship can't be the 'only' boundary. It can eventually become the final outcome, but is everyone's boundary 'leaving'?
I don't believe I taught my ex how to treat me. I believe I taught him what I would tolerate with my reactions to his actions. My actions and my words didnt match. I was saying "Im not taking this crap from you!", but my actions didn't back that up.
Seems pretty basic to go back to actions talk and words whisper, but thats how I break everythign down is by looking at are those 2 matching.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by elizabeth1979
This is super humorous to me and I couldnt agree more.
Back on track, now........................
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
And, by the same token, maybe leaving the relationship is the only boundary when it comes to abuse............
It's in hindsight too that I realized that the Alanon suggestion of 'not leaving/making no major life altering decisions for a year' was not in my best interest. And yes, I realize it was just a suggestion, but, it was suggested quite often. That is, in my opinion, the danger of Alanon 'in this particular case' (as in another exception). At that point in time, I was still of the opinion that his drinking is what caused his behavior.
Anyway, I think I'm more comfortable with how I'm looking at this all now. There are exceptions to just about anything. Once I removed my particular previous situation from the equation, I could clearly see what you were all trying to convey, although still only to a certain degree. No, I'm still not 100% convinced. But it was my previous relationship, and situations like that, that tripped me up. I'll still never use that sentence though...."we teach people how to treat us". I'll come up with something that works for me.
Thanks again everyone. You all were a big help!!
Last edited by ICU; 09-27-2007 at 01:18 PM.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
I think it comes down to that whole exception thing. The big exception is you cannot teach the irrational person in the same way you teach the rational person. When adiction, mental disease or something enters the picture, the usual no longer applies. A sick person just doesn't learn form the same social clues or statements that a "normal" person learns.
A work in progress....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
Posts: 1,018
I think a better way to say it is that others learn what we will put up with-what kind of treatment we will accept from them. So it just all comes back around to setting boundaries concerning what we will or will not accept in our lives.
If the behavior gets so bad that I cannot tolerate it, and the offending party doesn't respond to my boundaries, then my only option is to remove myself from that relationship.
Abusers are not going to respond to boundaries, IMHO; that I have learned from experience. My exah was arrested three times and under orders of protection 6 or 7 times over the years. It was at best a temporary solution that was eventually yet another thing to be thrown back in my face. ("YOU had me put in jail"...quack....quack)
Best thing I could do is accept that and get myself out of the relationship as quickly and safely as possible.
(I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I am now out of context here.)
((((((hugs)))))
If the behavior gets so bad that I cannot tolerate it, and the offending party doesn't respond to my boundaries, then my only option is to remove myself from that relationship.
Abusers are not going to respond to boundaries, IMHO; that I have learned from experience. My exah was arrested three times and under orders of protection 6 or 7 times over the years. It was at best a temporary solution that was eventually yet another thing to be thrown back in my face. ("YOU had me put in jail"...quack....quack)
Best thing I could do is accept that and get myself out of the relationship as quickly and safely as possible.
(I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I am now out of context here.)
((((((hugs)))))
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Originally Posted by duet_4-8
Abusers are not going to respond to boundaries
As I said earlier, the goal is not to change THEIR behaviour per se, but to teach another that I will not put up with that behaviour. I had to enforce steadily increasing consequences, until I refused any contact except via lawyers because nothing else worked. I did teach him in the end, though, because his last efforts in April were half-hearted and hopeful, rather than bullying and aggressive. I finally taught him what my boundaries were.
If you take abuse, emotional or otherwise, out of the equation, I have had quite a few instances where people no longer act a certain way around me. They still act like that with others, though. It is up to others to teach them otherwise, imho.
As for the "no major decisions" suggestion - I left within 3 months. Al-anon and counselling taught me to trust me gut and that was more important than a suggestion.
A work in progress....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by minnie
the only boundary that worked was not only leaving, but no contact. And I spent months enforcing that from my end.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: "Somewhere in Ohio" ... little joke from past
Posts: 481
"The big exception is you cannot teach the irrational person in the same way you teach the rational person. When adiction, mental disease or something enters the picture, the usual no longer applies."
You hit the nail on the head, Barbara. Near the end, there was no way to rationally get my mother (bipolar, OCD) to think clearly. Case in point. We were planting flowers at the cemetery one spring, and at the end she got this tormented look on her face and started saying "Let's take out these flowers, buy new, and replant them." She repeated that the whole way home, and I don't remember how long until she stopped. You cannot reason with an irrational mind, and I see that with my XABF. I told him four days in a row "Yesterday you made a promise to me that you would become sober to save your life" and "Yesterday I told you I would not go on another trip with you and take the verbal abuse and do pub crawls." Every day, same argument. It all depends, I suppose on the level of brain damage or psychosis.
It may take a thousand times of laying down the boundaries before they either leave, you leave, or by some miracle it sinks in.
You hit the nail on the head, Barbara. Near the end, there was no way to rationally get my mother (bipolar, OCD) to think clearly. Case in point. We were planting flowers at the cemetery one spring, and at the end she got this tormented look on her face and started saying "Let's take out these flowers, buy new, and replant them." She repeated that the whole way home, and I don't remember how long until she stopped. You cannot reason with an irrational mind, and I see that with my XABF. I told him four days in a row "Yesterday you made a promise to me that you would become sober to save your life" and "Yesterday I told you I would not go on another trip with you and take the verbal abuse and do pub crawls." Every day, same argument. It all depends, I suppose on the level of brain damage or psychosis.
It may take a thousand times of laying down the boundaries before they either leave, you leave, or by some miracle it sinks in.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: "Somewhere in Ohio" ... little joke from past
Posts: 481
My inclination is "yes" because some of these women are telling their spouses not to do something and they do it again and again. Wouldn't that be the boundary? It could be a failure to follow through with the consequences, though.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Heh, QU31!!! I was just musing on the same lines. A boundary is nothing without meaningful consequences.
So many times, I stated a boundary that seemed to be heard. But, surprise, surprise, it didn't work! That's because there was no consequence attached. So, I started to attach consequences. I look back now and laugh at my naivety - who on earth would quake in their shoes at "I will sleep in the spare room" when the alternative is alcohol withdrawal and facing up to the pain that has been masked for 30 years?
It ni longer fazes me that he is on his 2nd engagement in 3 years since we split up - me, my boundaries, our future, meant nothing to him. I feel sorry for him now - he is truly living a groundhog day.
So many times, I stated a boundary that seemed to be heard. But, surprise, surprise, it didn't work! That's because there was no consequence attached. So, I started to attach consequences. I look back now and laugh at my naivety - who on earth would quake in their shoes at "I will sleep in the spare room" when the alternative is alcohol withdrawal and facing up to the pain that has been masked for 30 years?
It ni longer fazes me that he is on his 2nd engagement in 3 years since we split up - me, my boundaries, our future, meant nothing to him. I feel sorry for him now - he is truly living a groundhog day.
New Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: whoville
Posts: 23
when i allow someone to abuse me, and i dont call the police...i have silently, thru my lack of action, taught that person its ok to abuse me, that there will be no consequences.
Therefore, I have taught him how to treat me. Like a doormat.
But not no more....I have self esteem and a massive set of personal boundaries!
Therefore, I have taught him how to treat me. Like a doormat.
But not no more....I have self esteem and a massive set of personal boundaries!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
For me, teaching others how to treat me goes two ways.
I think there is some sort of payoff in everything I do, therefore my actions are responding to the behaviors outside myself. I also think that by my actions I can show others what is acceptable and what isn't.
If ignored I will change the boundary/consequence. Much like what ICU described about her ex, over many years I had to change and enforce new boundaries as my son grew up and his addiction progressed. Over time, I was teaching him how to treat me but it was not a onetime/either-or proposition.
I think there is some sort of payoff in everything I do, therefore my actions are responding to the behaviors outside myself. I also think that by my actions I can show others what is acceptable and what isn't.
If ignored I will change the boundary/consequence. Much like what ICU described about her ex, over many years I had to change and enforce new boundaries as my son grew up and his addiction progressed. Over time, I was teaching him how to treat me but it was not a onetime/either-or proposition.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
