I did it! I told him my boundaries!
Keepingmyjoy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 328
I did it! I told him my boundaries!
Hi again all! I finally got caught up on all posts. Hugs to you all! So much pain and so much growth--WOW. Thanks for sharing everyone, I was helped immensely by all your posts and one day when I am stronger I hope I can return the favor more.
Well, I finally did it. I told him my boundaries. After weeks of my trying to have a conversation with him and his total silence and "I don't know" answers, I finally got to tell him while he was semi sober.
He's been trying to hide that he drinks everly chance he gets when his not home (I posted how he is actually drinking at work!). But I had told him previously that he needed to stop drinking if he wanted his family to stay together. So, he just hides it. So Friday night I tell him, enough already. I can no longer tolerate his drinking and that we have problems that need to be addressed. He says nothing.
So Saturday comes, he is going to re-do the garage floor. Little guy and I go out for the day to keep little guy out while floor is painted etc. I get a call from him later in the day and can tell he is well into the sauce of his choice. I don't say anything, but that I will be home shortly. When I get home, he is drunk (not as off his rocker as usual, but drunk). So, he starts telling me that he was thinking alot about what I said last night and has some thoughts on it. Now, I know this should be interesting, since he is drunk, but I figured I would hear him out to get some idea of what he is thinking, twisted or not. I wish I could find that jaw dropping smiley thingy at this point! This is what he tells me in a nutshell: We have grown apart, that he does not want to share me with ANYONE, even our son. He says that he knows that is wrong, and that I am a wonderful mother to our son, but that he wants me to love him more. Maybe if I showed him I loved him as much as I showed our son, he would feel more loved. (!!!!!) He suggested that I "grab him in public and (sorry to be graphic here) stick my tongue down his throat more often" that he would feel more loved.(!!!!!!!!!!!!) He says that we have to recapture the love we once had. He says that "part of it all is his drinking, and that is YOUR problem" (meaning my problem). He then went on to other crazy things that made no sense. I sat there and did not say a word. I was floored. My eyes must have been huge, because he asked why I had that look on my face! He then tells me that "now that he is not drinking, he has a different perspective on things". I almost burst out laughing! Who the heck is he trying to kid!? I told him that I needed him to stop deluding himself that he was hiding anything and that his behavior and smell tell me he is drinking.
But I will say, I did good I think, for me at least. I did not engage (fully), I did not try to discuss, just thanked him for telling me how he felt and got little guy ready for bed etc.
I could not go to sleep. The depth of his altered reality was unbelievable! Too much to put the whole conversation here, but trust me, it was completely bizarre. I got good and depressed. I finally see that I cannot put any hope into this equation. It makes me so sad.
So in the morning, he is all happy, like he "fixed" it. When little guy was distracted, I told him I need to address some of what he brought up last night. He had that look on his face like he might not remember it all, but I went ahead anyway.
I told him that first, he needs to understand completely that he is not able to hide when he drinks. I said that "your personality completely changes and the smell comes off of your skin, no matter how much gum you chew and that I am fully aware he has not stopped drinkingl I told him that I do not want to be lied to, ever.
I reminded him that he called His drinking MY problem. I calmly told him, only the consequences of his drinking have been my problem, his anger, attitude, swearing and other actions have caused little guy and I problems. But, the drinking problem is YOURS. I am no longer willing to tolerate the drinking and the behaviors that come from it. There will be no drinking ever while with our son. As far as the showing love and our physical relationship, I cannot have one with you right now. The hurts are so great that I am not comfortable in showing love that way.
I asked him if he would be willing to get into counseling or AA etc. He basically hemmed and hawwed, but no. So I said that I then had a choice to make. He says, so you want me to stop drinking 100%? I said yes, 100%. And since he is not willing at this point to help himself, I would have to consider what I will do. He then says to give him 28 days. He will try not to drink for 28 days. If he fails then he will go get help.
I am fully prepared to act on my boundaries finally. Been trying to get stronger. But wow, I thought I would feel victorious that I finally got my boundaries in place. Instead, I feel exhausted, sad, depressed. But I did it.
Thanks so much for letting me get this out.
Well, I finally did it. I told him my boundaries. After weeks of my trying to have a conversation with him and his total silence and "I don't know" answers, I finally got to tell him while he was semi sober.
He's been trying to hide that he drinks everly chance he gets when his not home (I posted how he is actually drinking at work!). But I had told him previously that he needed to stop drinking if he wanted his family to stay together. So, he just hides it. So Friday night I tell him, enough already. I can no longer tolerate his drinking and that we have problems that need to be addressed. He says nothing.
So Saturday comes, he is going to re-do the garage floor. Little guy and I go out for the day to keep little guy out while floor is painted etc. I get a call from him later in the day and can tell he is well into the sauce of his choice. I don't say anything, but that I will be home shortly. When I get home, he is drunk (not as off his rocker as usual, but drunk). So, he starts telling me that he was thinking alot about what I said last night and has some thoughts on it. Now, I know this should be interesting, since he is drunk, but I figured I would hear him out to get some idea of what he is thinking, twisted or not. I wish I could find that jaw dropping smiley thingy at this point! This is what he tells me in a nutshell: We have grown apart, that he does not want to share me with ANYONE, even our son. He says that he knows that is wrong, and that I am a wonderful mother to our son, but that he wants me to love him more. Maybe if I showed him I loved him as much as I showed our son, he would feel more loved. (!!!!!) He suggested that I "grab him in public and (sorry to be graphic here) stick my tongue down his throat more often" that he would feel more loved.(!!!!!!!!!!!!) He says that we have to recapture the love we once had. He says that "part of it all is his drinking, and that is YOUR problem" (meaning my problem). He then went on to other crazy things that made no sense. I sat there and did not say a word. I was floored. My eyes must have been huge, because he asked why I had that look on my face! He then tells me that "now that he is not drinking, he has a different perspective on things". I almost burst out laughing! Who the heck is he trying to kid!? I told him that I needed him to stop deluding himself that he was hiding anything and that his behavior and smell tell me he is drinking.
But I will say, I did good I think, for me at least. I did not engage (fully), I did not try to discuss, just thanked him for telling me how he felt and got little guy ready for bed etc.
I could not go to sleep. The depth of his altered reality was unbelievable! Too much to put the whole conversation here, but trust me, it was completely bizarre. I got good and depressed. I finally see that I cannot put any hope into this equation. It makes me so sad.
So in the morning, he is all happy, like he "fixed" it. When little guy was distracted, I told him I need to address some of what he brought up last night. He had that look on his face like he might not remember it all, but I went ahead anyway.
I told him that first, he needs to understand completely that he is not able to hide when he drinks. I said that "your personality completely changes and the smell comes off of your skin, no matter how much gum you chew and that I am fully aware he has not stopped drinkingl I told him that I do not want to be lied to, ever.
I reminded him that he called His drinking MY problem. I calmly told him, only the consequences of his drinking have been my problem, his anger, attitude, swearing and other actions have caused little guy and I problems. But, the drinking problem is YOURS. I am no longer willing to tolerate the drinking and the behaviors that come from it. There will be no drinking ever while with our son. As far as the showing love and our physical relationship, I cannot have one with you right now. The hurts are so great that I am not comfortable in showing love that way.
I asked him if he would be willing to get into counseling or AA etc. He basically hemmed and hawwed, but no. So I said that I then had a choice to make. He says, so you want me to stop drinking 100%? I said yes, 100%. And since he is not willing at this point to help himself, I would have to consider what I will do. He then says to give him 28 days. He will try not to drink for 28 days. If he fails then he will go get help.
I am fully prepared to act on my boundaries finally. Been trying to get stronger. But wow, I thought I would feel victorious that I finally got my boundaries in place. Instead, I feel exhausted, sad, depressed. But I did it.
Thanks so much for letting me get this out.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by keepingmyjoy 
I finally see that I cannot put any hope into this equation. It makes me so sad.
Whatever decision you make, let it be yours, not his.
L
Keepingmyjoy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 328
I am not sure I want to give him the 28 days...But since I was not confident that I spoke my boundaries clearly the first time...I felt I needed to really clearly state them. Now, when I leave, I will know he heard them. But, since he really really does not want to stop drinking, he will not succeed, and that makes me sad. So going about saving and getting ready etc. But thanks for the reminder LaTeeDa, it really helps cut through the fog I feel right now!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 66
Good for you! (((Keepingmyjoy))) You did great! I'm proud of you. You held strong and set your boundries. I understand that is a very tough thing to do. Hang in there and like you said, be prepared to act on your boundries. I will be thinking of you.
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Good job on the boundary!
LaTeeDa, you said it perfectly. I remember setting the boundary and giving the ultimatum. He went 20 something days without drinking and then started in again.
LTD is right...the decision must be yours-about you and your child. He is going to do what he is going to do.
Get some rest, KeepingMyJoy, setting the boundary is the easy part...sticking to it is where it gets exhausting!
You are doing great!
LaTeeDa, you said it perfectly. I remember setting the boundary and giving the ultimatum. He went 20 something days without drinking and then started in again.
LTD is right...the decision must be yours-about you and your child. He is going to do what he is going to do.
Get some rest, KeepingMyJoy, setting the boundary is the easy part...sticking to it is where it gets exhausting!
You are doing great!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: "Somewhere in Ohio" ... little joke from past
Posts: 481
KeepingMyJoy, you are following the same path I did a couple months back. A month before I went on vacation with my XABF he made a deal with me. The day after we got back, he would "wean" himself down to three beers a day. The following week, two a day. The last week, one a day, and then he would never go beyond one a day.
We got back, and he *might* have cut back to half his 20-25 a day for a couple days. By that weekend, he was binging in Key West with friends and watching a couple girls go at it in the back of his SUV. I told him two days later I would agree to NOTHING but TOTAL sobriety in three weeks. He was angry, but agreed. Our conversations deteriorated to him recycling stories of the binging weekend, which made me sick to hear.
I didn't hear from him for two weeks (while the grapevine told me he was going back to an XGF who wasn't "tiresome") and now I understand he's putting a ring on her finger. Huh, he never told me to take mine off.
Well ANYWAY, these "deals" must be taken with a grain of salt. I have a friend who volunteered at an alcoholic center and she said weaning never works. But you're going to hear that from a mess of people on here. It's all a bunch of BS, designed to buy the A time I guess in the hopes that you'll forget about it.
Stick to your guns and don't rely on staying in the situation long-term.
The very best of wishes to you ... and remember you have friends on here to talk to who have been there.
We got back, and he *might* have cut back to half his 20-25 a day for a couple days. By that weekend, he was binging in Key West with friends and watching a couple girls go at it in the back of his SUV. I told him two days later I would agree to NOTHING but TOTAL sobriety in three weeks. He was angry, but agreed. Our conversations deteriorated to him recycling stories of the binging weekend, which made me sick to hear.
I didn't hear from him for two weeks (while the grapevine told me he was going back to an XGF who wasn't "tiresome") and now I understand he's putting a ring on her finger. Huh, he never told me to take mine off.
Well ANYWAY, these "deals" must be taken with a grain of salt. I have a friend who volunteered at an alcoholic center and she said weaning never works. But you're going to hear that from a mess of people on here. It's all a bunch of BS, designed to buy the A time I guess in the hopes that you'll forget about it.
Stick to your guns and don't rely on staying in the situation long-term.
The very best of wishes to you ... and remember you have friends on here to talk to who have been there.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
I think we went through the weaning stage about 9-10 years ago. After that it was you're a control freak and accept me as I am. Then divorce. I wish I had known way back at the weaning stage I would be this happy today; I am grateful I got here at last. It takes what it takes.
((()))
((()))
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
The boundary that I have tried to make with mine is that I will talk to him with a mediator, only, and that maybe even those interactions could be recorded, so that my sanity is not put through the ringer constantly.
I told him that before he can come around us, for company, or dinner, or anything of this sort, that he MUST begin a program. Initially it was, seeing a counselor AND/OR rehab. I was not willing to deal with him in his active addcition anymore, UNLESS he was making some stride toward change. If he gives a little then I give a little. period.
Well, he couldnt retain this , so I wrote it and sent it to his email account. He said he didnt read it, so I waited it out.Up until he attacked me, for finding out about one of his liasons with a barslut/ woman.
After that he went to jail, was ordered to rehab, and is not doing what is neccessary to make that happen, so I initiated NO CONTACT.
The boundary is still there for me, and my little son; NO alcohol in our house, no contact under the influence, He and I will not address our future until he is under the supervision of some kind of professional/in rehab. He gives something/he gets something.All the while I am still trying to maintain no caontact, as it clears my mind, and has been giving me the time and energy to rebuild my heart.
Have I been successful? somewhat? Has it made him change? No, but, it has made me happier. I have taken one call in 13 days. I still know what I need to be safe and to maintain my clarity, and my sanity. I do not want to deal with him, because I cannot be trusted to protect my own mind by not engaging in chaotic interaction with him.
It is really so simple what you are asking. And it should be a testament to you and to him, that he really does have a serious problem if he cannot comply with these very simple requests.
I still maintain that I will only allow him back when he is under the care of a certified counselor AND rehab(the and/or changed to just AND after the attack.)
I told him that before he can come around us, for company, or dinner, or anything of this sort, that he MUST begin a program. Initially it was, seeing a counselor AND/OR rehab. I was not willing to deal with him in his active addcition anymore, UNLESS he was making some stride toward change. If he gives a little then I give a little. period.
Well, he couldnt retain this , so I wrote it and sent it to his email account. He said he didnt read it, so I waited it out.Up until he attacked me, for finding out about one of his liasons with a barslut/ woman.
After that he went to jail, was ordered to rehab, and is not doing what is neccessary to make that happen, so I initiated NO CONTACT.
The boundary is still there for me, and my little son; NO alcohol in our house, no contact under the influence, He and I will not address our future until he is under the supervision of some kind of professional/in rehab. He gives something/he gets something.All the while I am still trying to maintain no caontact, as it clears my mind, and has been giving me the time and energy to rebuild my heart.
Have I been successful? somewhat? Has it made him change? No, but, it has made me happier. I have taken one call in 13 days. I still know what I need to be safe and to maintain my clarity, and my sanity. I do not want to deal with him, because I cannot be trusted to protect my own mind by not engaging in chaotic interaction with him.
It is really so simple what you are asking. And it should be a testament to you and to him, that he really does have a serious problem if he cannot comply with these very simple requests.
I still maintain that I will only allow him back when he is under the care of a certified counselor AND rehab(the and/or changed to just AND after the attack.)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 178
I've done alot of thinking these past few weeks since AH's last bad episode when he "quit" drinking. (Very early that morning we had "the talk," a long talk, and I set what I thought were my boundaries. I've come to a few more realizations since then.) He did stop a few days, and then started up again hiding it and now out in the open again. It is less, but I can see he'll be back full swing again soon.
The past two weeks has felt like my future and my life were on hold waiting for the other shoe to drop because bottom line, he's still an active A. He's still in denial and just the thought of AA seems to give him anxiety. He's not ready, and I don't want to deal with all these false attempts designed to manipulate me and win me over for a few days.
I have been quiet ever since the talk and haven't brought up the subject at all. There's no point to it. All that needs to have been said has been said. I'm just watching the drama play out. However, my boundaries have CHANGED. He'll hear it soon enough.
My new and improved version is: I can't live with an active alcoholic in denial because it's insane, chaotic, dangerous, bad for my happiness, health and financial stability. My hope is he seek sobriety and recovery for his own health and well being. I would never consider investing any more time in us before him achieving at least one to two years of successful sobriety in a recovery program. Although this offers no promise or guarantees for future reconciliation because time passes, people change and go on with their lives.
Period.
The past two weeks has felt like my future and my life were on hold waiting for the other shoe to drop because bottom line, he's still an active A. He's still in denial and just the thought of AA seems to give him anxiety. He's not ready, and I don't want to deal with all these false attempts designed to manipulate me and win me over for a few days.
I have been quiet ever since the talk and haven't brought up the subject at all. There's no point to it. All that needs to have been said has been said. I'm just watching the drama play out. However, my boundaries have CHANGED. He'll hear it soon enough.
My new and improved version is: I can't live with an active alcoholic in denial because it's insane, chaotic, dangerous, bad for my happiness, health and financial stability. My hope is he seek sobriety and recovery for his own health and well being. I would never consider investing any more time in us before him achieving at least one to two years of successful sobriety in a recovery program. Although this offers no promise or guarantees for future reconciliation because time passes, people change and go on with their lives.
Period.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I think sometimes when we spell out our boundaries to them, we only give them more ammunition to manipulate us. For example:
Suppose my boundary is that I will not live with an active alcoholic, and will not let him move back in with me until I see some major growth and changes on his part, see him actively working a program, going to rehab, or whatever, for at least a year.
I can articulate that to the addict, which then gives him enough information to 'play the game' with me. Now he knows what kind of behavior I expect, what my time frame is (how long he needs to play the game) etc.
Or, I can simply create the boundary in mind own mind, and only communicate what is necessary. As in--I will not allow you to move back in at this time, I don't wish to have any contact with you, and in six months to a year, I may decide re-assess the situation.
In the second example, I am still creating the same boundary, but it is for me. I am not giving away information that could be used to take advantage of me. Boundaries are for my own protection, not a way to get someone else to do what I want. (which will usually backfire, anyway)
Just another way to look at this topic.
L
Suppose my boundary is that I will not live with an active alcoholic, and will not let him move back in with me until I see some major growth and changes on his part, see him actively working a program, going to rehab, or whatever, for at least a year.
I can articulate that to the addict, which then gives him enough information to 'play the game' with me. Now he knows what kind of behavior I expect, what my time frame is (how long he needs to play the game) etc.
Or, I can simply create the boundary in mind own mind, and only communicate what is necessary. As in--I will not allow you to move back in at this time, I don't wish to have any contact with you, and in six months to a year, I may decide re-assess the situation.
In the second example, I am still creating the same boundary, but it is for me. I am not giving away information that could be used to take advantage of me. Boundaries are for my own protection, not a way to get someone else to do what I want. (which will usually backfire, anyway)
Just another way to look at this topic.
L
It is what it is
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 280
I understand and see what you mean La, but if you are still hopeful to have a relationship with the person, it makes sense to be clear with what the boundaries are. It's only fair to state them clearly and not go back on them to give the A a chance to figure out their own recovery or not. If not, then we clearly know where we both stand. KWIM? No second guessing and no wiggle room for either party involved.
I think you are doing great keepingmyjoy in that you've set your boundaries and actually stated them. You are one step further in your plan of self-improvement. I still haven't clearly figured out mine so of course haven't stated them. I haven't got the self-esteem yet or the nerve to stick to what I say so I'm at a standstill in that respect. I am still actively working the program and I know in time I will be able to do the same. I understand what you mean when you say it's sad because he doesn't want to work on his problem and you are essentially powerless over it. It's hurts. I feel the same way. (((()))))) to you.
Jenny
I think you are doing great keepingmyjoy in that you've set your boundaries and actually stated them. You are one step further in your plan of self-improvement. I still haven't clearly figured out mine so of course haven't stated them. I haven't got the self-esteem yet or the nerve to stick to what I say so I'm at a standstill in that respect. I am still actively working the program and I know in time I will be able to do the same. I understand what you mean when you say it's sad because he doesn't want to work on his problem and you are essentially powerless over it. It's hurts. I feel the same way. (((()))))) to you.
Jenny
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by sunshine321
No second guessing and no wiggle room for either party involved.
JMHO,
L
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
keepingmyjoy,
you're awesome! Good job on stating your boundaries without giving in to the psychosis of an active alcoholic "saying his piece." That must have been SO hard (especially the part where you didn't burst out laughing...sheesh...)
I gave my ex a time period too. I didn't have to, as I was fairly certain -- about 80% certain -- that I didn't want to be in that relationship any more.
Of course, he failed. Then made a couple of half-hearted swipes at getting sober, blamed me some more (I wasn't THIS enough or THAT enough), tried to manipulate me into letting things go back to "normal", etc.
After that, I was *100%* sure. And I could get on with my life with no doubts, no wonderings if I gave him enough chances, none of that. I set my boundary, he crossed it, and he gave me a stack of reasons for not staying in that madness.
Be aware of what folks above have said, especially LaTeeDa. If he cannot stop, he will find a way to turn it around on you, to make it your fault (he's already tried that, as you see). And he may get very agitated about it, the more he senses he's losing control. Or he may get through the 28 days just to be able to say "I told you so: Now YOU have to change." Be careful. Keep centered, keep honest with him(good job calling him on hiding his drinking) keep focused on what you and your son need, and keep posting.....we're all here cheering you on.
Love,
GL
p.s. if you do decide to give this a try, I'd suggest maybe putting it in writing. Make sure he can't wiggle out of it by selective forgetfulness. Not that any of OUR alcoholics would ever DO that ....
you're awesome! Good job on stating your boundaries without giving in to the psychosis of an active alcoholic "saying his piece." That must have been SO hard (especially the part where you didn't burst out laughing...sheesh...)
I gave my ex a time period too. I didn't have to, as I was fairly certain -- about 80% certain -- that I didn't want to be in that relationship any more.
Of course, he failed. Then made a couple of half-hearted swipes at getting sober, blamed me some more (I wasn't THIS enough or THAT enough), tried to manipulate me into letting things go back to "normal", etc.
After that, I was *100%* sure. And I could get on with my life with no doubts, no wonderings if I gave him enough chances, none of that. I set my boundary, he crossed it, and he gave me a stack of reasons for not staying in that madness.
Be aware of what folks above have said, especially LaTeeDa. If he cannot stop, he will find a way to turn it around on you, to make it your fault (he's already tried that, as you see). And he may get very agitated about it, the more he senses he's losing control. Or he may get through the 28 days just to be able to say "I told you so: Now YOU have to change." Be careful. Keep centered, keep honest with him(good job calling him on hiding his drinking) keep focused on what you and your son need, and keep posting.....we're all here cheering you on.
Love,
GL
p.s. if you do decide to give this a try, I'd suggest maybe putting it in writing. Make sure he can't wiggle out of it by selective forgetfulness. Not that any of OUR alcoholics would ever DO that ....
Keepingmyjoy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 328
Thanks everybody so much! I don't know what I would do without all of you!
Chero...I think I did not want to set the boundaries because I knew how hard it would be to follow through...I am tired all the time now....phew, I just won't worry about that...one step at a time, right!
LaTeeDa, thanks for the good thoughts....I know he will try any kind of schmooze to get me to just keep being the good ole codie that I have been!
CB- yeah, been there and done that with the deals.. so many! I will stop drinking if you loose weight, I will stop drinking when be get the new house, I will stop drinking when blah blah blah. What a sickness.
So much of what all of you said is so great..thanks. So much hope of happiness in all of you who have been able to move on.
Givelove, I am pretty sure I can't stay in this even if he tries, same as you were. He is trying right now to be cheery and nice, but I just feel like it is not because of considerateness to me, but because he is scared to death he will lose his chauffer, cleaning lady, daycare provider, cook, financial advisor, etc (ME!)
Since he is not willing to go get any help, I can't see there is much hope. But I just gotta keep doing baby steps and I will get there eventually! I just wish it felt better to "succeed" at this, but wow does it hurt!
Chero...I think I did not want to set the boundaries because I knew how hard it would be to follow through...I am tired all the time now....phew, I just won't worry about that...one step at a time, right!
LaTeeDa, thanks for the good thoughts....I know he will try any kind of schmooze to get me to just keep being the good ole codie that I have been!
CB- yeah, been there and done that with the deals.. so many! I will stop drinking if you loose weight, I will stop drinking when be get the new house, I will stop drinking when blah blah blah. What a sickness.
So much of what all of you said is so great..thanks. So much hope of happiness in all of you who have been able to move on.
Givelove, I am pretty sure I can't stay in this even if he tries, same as you were. He is trying right now to be cheery and nice, but I just feel like it is not because of considerateness to me, but because he is scared to death he will lose his chauffer, cleaning lady, daycare provider, cook, financial advisor, etc (ME!)
Since he is not willing to go get any help, I can't see there is much hope. But I just gotta keep doing baby steps and I will get there eventually! I just wish it felt better to "succeed" at this, but wow does it hurt!
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Originally Posted by keepingmyjoy
Chero...I think I did not want to set the boundaries because I knew how hard it would be to follow through...I am tired all the time now....phew, I just won't worry about that...one step at a time, right!
Just focus on the moment you are in. You'll get there!!
Originally Posted by keepingmyjoy
Since he is not willing to go get any help, I can't see there is much hope. But I just gotta keep doing baby steps and I will get there eventually! I just wish it felt better to "succeed" at this, but wow does it hurt!
You are doing GREAT!!!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
boundries can be tricky, as ltd pointed out. it took me several tries before i realized i was setting boundries that were still trying to get him sober.
when reality hit, i realized i had to set the boundries for me, and for me only.
the bad part of that was that i knew it was the end of our relationship. but, really, what kind of relationship did we really have anyway????
setting my boundries meant there were things i would not tolerate any longer. setting boundries were an insurance policy for my own happiness, although at the time it was heartbreaking for the loss of my dream with the man that i loved.
best to you and big hugs
jeri
when reality hit, i realized i had to set the boundries for me, and for me only.
the bad part of that was that i knew it was the end of our relationship. but, really, what kind of relationship did we really have anyway????
setting my boundries meant there were things i would not tolerate any longer. setting boundries were an insurance policy for my own happiness, although at the time it was heartbreaking for the loss of my dream with the man that i loved.
best to you and big hugs
jeri
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 178
LA
I sort of understand what you're saying but I am confused. Currently living with an active A I don't have a problem with saying I can't do this anymore and have to start planning to make some changes. Separation is the consequence of his drinking and behaviours that cross my boundary.
What I'm having a hard time with is when I say I can't do this anymore, he says he'll quit drinking, do what it takes etc to save the marriage and keep from losing me. I can't maintain a committment to the relationship based on that. It's nuts. He can try and quit for a few days, drink for a week, try again to quit and on and on. A sobriety and recovery program offers no guarantees either. He could go to AA, and then go out drinking. I can't live with that either. It's just as nuts as living with the active A.
How do I make a boundary for me to protect me from his quitting and/or recovery issues? Or do I just not say anything? I hope this makes sense.
I sort of understand what you're saying but I am confused. Currently living with an active A I don't have a problem with saying I can't do this anymore and have to start planning to make some changes. Separation is the consequence of his drinking and behaviours that cross my boundary.
What I'm having a hard time with is when I say I can't do this anymore, he says he'll quit drinking, do what it takes etc to save the marriage and keep from losing me. I can't maintain a committment to the relationship based on that. It's nuts. He can try and quit for a few days, drink for a week, try again to quit and on and on. A sobriety and recovery program offers no guarantees either. He could go to AA, and then go out drinking. I can't live with that either. It's just as nuts as living with the active A.
How do I make a boundary for me to protect me from his quitting and/or recovery issues? Or do I just not say anything? I hope this makes sense.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by Lady BlueMiles
LA
I sort of understand what you're saying but I am confused. Currently living with an active A I don't have a problem with saying I can't do this anymore and have to start planning to make some changes. Separation is the consequence of his drinking and behaviours that cross my boundary.
What I'm having a hard time with is when I say I can't do this anymore, he says he'll quit drinking, do what it takes etc to save the marriage and keep from losing me. I can't maintain a committment to the relationship based on that. It's nuts. He can try and quit for a few days, drink for a week, try again to quit and on and on. A sobriety and recovery program offers no guarantees either. He could go to AA, and then go out drinking. I can't live with that either. It's just as nuts as living with the active A.
How do I make a boundary for me to protect me from his quitting and/or recovery issues? Or do I just not say anything? I hope this makes sense.
I sort of understand what you're saying but I am confused. Currently living with an active A I don't have a problem with saying I can't do this anymore and have to start planning to make some changes. Separation is the consequence of his drinking and behaviours that cross my boundary.
What I'm having a hard time with is when I say I can't do this anymore, he says he'll quit drinking, do what it takes etc to save the marriage and keep from losing me. I can't maintain a committment to the relationship based on that. It's nuts. He can try and quit for a few days, drink for a week, try again to quit and on and on. A sobriety and recovery program offers no guarantees either. He could go to AA, and then go out drinking. I can't live with that either. It's just as nuts as living with the active A.
How do I make a boundary for me to protect me from his quitting and/or recovery issues? Or do I just not say anything? I hope this makes sense.
We all know that an A will make the promises to quit and get into recovery, and we all hope they will do exactly that. The question is will they actually do it. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
To take care of yourself, you go ahead with your plans to take care of you, regardless of his actions or lack of actions. If you decide leaving is the right thing to do with you, you go ahead with those plans. Leaving does not have to mean the end to the marriage/relationship. It mean taking yourself out of the toxic situation and letting your A take responsibility for his actions and choice.
I hope this makes sense.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I think Barbara said it really well. Unfortunately, there is no simple step A, step B, step C way to do boundaries because it is such a personal thing.
I think if you keep a couple things in mind, you will do fine.
The first is, make it about you, not him. It's about how his behavior affects you, not even necessarily how his drinking affects you. So, a true boundary is not--you must stop drinking. A true boundary is more like--I will not live with someone who does not contribute financially to this family. (An example from my situation)
The second thing is, and this is one of the tough parts, don't prescribe to them what they need to do to respect your boundary. I know it's tempting to say things like--you must get a job and hold it for 6 months, you must go to rehab, you must go to 90 AA meetings in 90 days, you must maintain sobriety for a year. DON'T DO IT. For one thing, you may not know the best way for him to tackle his own problems. That is up to him to figure out. All you have to figure out is what you cannot live with, and what YOU are going to do about it. And, in the case of my husband, and many others I have read about on here, he may WANT you to tell him what to do. Before I learned to hang up, I heard many sobbing, pleading phone calls asking 'what do I have to do for you to take me back?' 'Just tell me what to do and I will do it.' Don't fall for that. What they are really asking is for you to give them instructions on how best to manipulate you. 'Tell me about your most important and sensitive buttons so that I can push them.'
And, I second what Barbara said that just because you separate doesn't mean it has to be over forever. How long? That's up to you. You don't have to give him a time frame if you don't want, but I chose to say I will re-evaluate the situation in 6 months. I did that just so he would stop expecting everything to be okay after 2 or 3 days.
Best wishes to you in sorting out your own boundaries. It does get easier after a while.
L
*edit* I forgot to add that one of the first and very best lessons I learned from SR was Actions, not Words. He can say he will quit over and over and over again. Let him prove it with actions. And you don't have to let him stay to prove it either. How long does it take to prove it? Again, that's up to you and so is whether or not you tell him how long.
I think if you keep a couple things in mind, you will do fine.
The first is, make it about you, not him. It's about how his behavior affects you, not even necessarily how his drinking affects you. So, a true boundary is not--you must stop drinking. A true boundary is more like--I will not live with someone who does not contribute financially to this family. (An example from my situation)
The second thing is, and this is one of the tough parts, don't prescribe to them what they need to do to respect your boundary. I know it's tempting to say things like--you must get a job and hold it for 6 months, you must go to rehab, you must go to 90 AA meetings in 90 days, you must maintain sobriety for a year. DON'T DO IT. For one thing, you may not know the best way for him to tackle his own problems. That is up to him to figure out. All you have to figure out is what you cannot live with, and what YOU are going to do about it. And, in the case of my husband, and many others I have read about on here, he may WANT you to tell him what to do. Before I learned to hang up, I heard many sobbing, pleading phone calls asking 'what do I have to do for you to take me back?' 'Just tell me what to do and I will do it.' Don't fall for that. What they are really asking is for you to give them instructions on how best to manipulate you. 'Tell me about your most important and sensitive buttons so that I can push them.'
And, I second what Barbara said that just because you separate doesn't mean it has to be over forever. How long? That's up to you. You don't have to give him a time frame if you don't want, but I chose to say I will re-evaluate the situation in 6 months. I did that just so he would stop expecting everything to be okay after 2 or 3 days.
Best wishes to you in sorting out your own boundaries. It does get easier after a while.
L
*edit* I forgot to add that one of the first and very best lessons I learned from SR was Actions, not Words. He can say he will quit over and over and over again. Let him prove it with actions. And you don't have to let him stay to prove it either. How long does it take to prove it? Again, that's up to you and so is whether or not you tell him how long.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 178
[COLOR="Navy"]"I hope you go forward with your plans to quit drinking and get into recovery.
Barbara:
Yes that is exactly where I've been stuck!! This is such a big help! I didn't know what to say to protect myself from the endless cycle when he says I'm quitting, will do what it takes, I don't need AA, you'll never see me drunk and verbal again etc etc etc. He thinks the immediate problem is solved and I'm appeased with him saying what he thinks I want to hear. Within a week he's having just one, then a few out with the boys, then the resentment starts to kick in, and if it wasn't for me he wouldn't have this responsibility and could do what he wants, I want my freedom and yak yak yak back to the same old insanity again.
After x period of time, we can talk about whether the separation will end.
Thanks AGAIN! I do have to teak this a little because I can't enforce a stronger boundary right now because I'm not exactly ready to walk out the door yet. I can only say I'm preparing for life on my own. Separation right now for me is working on separating accounts, selling property, filing separate taxes this year, getting separate auto insurance, saving money for a lawyer, preparing myself for a better paying job for financial independance and basically not making him and the marriage the focus of my decisions and priorities anymore.
Let me tell you, he's not a happy camper about any of that.
After x period of time, we can talk about whether the separation will end.
Because I haven't actually left yet, I could say "maybe later we can talk about if I'll reconsider not making plans for life on my own."
I think I'm getting the hang of it? So far it's sounding more like it's all about me? My plans, my decisions and if I want to change my mind.
Thanks so much.
Barbara:
Yes that is exactly where I've been stuck!! This is such a big help! I didn't know what to say to protect myself from the endless cycle when he says I'm quitting, will do what it takes, I don't need AA, you'll never see me drunk and verbal again etc etc etc. He thinks the immediate problem is solved and I'm appeased with him saying what he thinks I want to hear. Within a week he's having just one, then a few out with the boys, then the resentment starts to kick in, and if it wasn't for me he wouldn't have this responsibility and could do what he wants, I want my freedom and yak yak yak back to the same old insanity again.
After x period of time, we can talk about whether the separation will end.
Thanks AGAIN! I do have to teak this a little because I can't enforce a stronger boundary right now because I'm not exactly ready to walk out the door yet. I can only say I'm preparing for life on my own. Separation right now for me is working on separating accounts, selling property, filing separate taxes this year, getting separate auto insurance, saving money for a lawyer, preparing myself for a better paying job for financial independance and basically not making him and the marriage the focus of my decisions and priorities anymore.
Let me tell you, he's not a happy camper about any of that.
After x period of time, we can talk about whether the separation will end.
Because I haven't actually left yet, I could say "maybe later we can talk about if I'll reconsider not making plans for life on my own."
I think I'm getting the hang of it? So far it's sounding more like it's all about me? My plans, my decisions and if I want to change my mind.
Thanks so much.
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