outdoor1

I've spent the last year watching my wife NOT come to grips with her 7-10 yr drinking problem, a .23 DWI and guilty plea, and many mental illness and continuing "denial" issues. She is very unresponsible and thinks she's entitled to sympathy, respect, and financial support from everyone. Her first two 30 day treatment centers (which were world class, one court orderd and very well known nationally) had her coming out saying I was the cause of her drinking and was a "trigger". She drank IMMEDIATELY after exiting both, and was angry. She did make some unrepentive very feeble attempts at making amends to me and the kids after being out for about 4 mos., which quickly turned into "you will do things my way in the future and you will respect me" speech. She believes everyone treats her bad and doesn't respect her and that we are neglectful, which is why she is unhappy and drinks.

She went into two different IOP's after the two big treatement centers, and becasue of the bad experience with my going to family week at the other two big treatment centers, hearing her yell at me, but "talk the talk" during sessions, then just remain in complete denial the minute she left there and start blaming everyone else again, I didn't go to the others family weeks.

Now, she has gotten her elderly parents (who have been worried sick and can't fathom she's so bad) worked up. They came to visit and spent three days with her and they see she is a wreck and she's admittted to them (which I knew) that she continues to drink even while going to IOP.

She doesn't live at the house because of a restraining order granted me a year ago, and her continuing crazy behavior and blaming phone calls. She's hard to live with, doesn't treat me or the kids well at all, and I'm pretty sure she has Borderline Personality Disorder, becasue she exhibits all the signs, and refuses to accept ANY personal responsibility. Hasn't worked in a year, has tapped $80K out of her investment account, lived in a motel for months, isolated and drinking. Has been in an out of AA but is mostly bored with it. Had a sponsor for about 30 days, but no more. Clings to everyone (especially strangers who tell her she's pretty or funny) who will listen to her sad story, but people soon realize she has mental and drinking problems and ask her "what was so bad about your life?" and try to put distance between her and tell her she just needs to stop drinking and get herself squared away. Then she feels abandoned, and actually calls and texts them repeatedly saying "come back".

Suddenly now, she says that she needs to get "more" treatment. What her Dr. told her (I was there) was that she needs LONG term, like 90 days and he told me privately that he doesn't think she'll ever get better and he thinks she does have a PD. Of course now, even though she is finally saying "I'm finally going back to treatment like all of you think I need to.....so you all need to support me" she's only willing to commit to 30 days. This new center she wants to attend is the nations premier center in MN.

I asked her to consider stepping up at this time and taking some personal responsibility, admitting this was her problem, and asked her to pay the $35K cost of this treatment personally (which she can do, but it would be a big bite). I asked her what about this treatment, or her, is different this time (and "none of your business, just help me out ... if you love me and want me to get better for me and my kids, just sign the ***&%ing check").

Our insurance is tapped, I've been paying all our bills this last year while she's tried to "recover" with no plan and no results, and now she says if I don't authorize her to take $35K out of our joint funds that a) she'll sue me, or b) her parents will pay and they will sue me (actually, her parents told me that too.)

I've been trying to tell her parents they need to hold her feet to the fire on the personal responsibility issue (which they aren't willing to do) , and I haven't paid for anything for her all year that was a repurcussion of her drinking. Parents say I need to cooperate on this 5th treatment ctr payment, since "now this one's her idea, she needs the help, you are her husband, you need to do this for the kids, and its her idea and she's arranged it all, so maybe it will work!".

Well, ................she arranged 3 of the 4 others too, and that was her idea, but they still didn't work, becasue SHE was going through the motions, didn't have an aftercare plan or accept personal responsibility.

Her chant this past year during the times she was sober has been "just let me back in the house and back with my kids I'll be fine". Problem is, when she's here, we never know what to expect. Anger, rage, blaming, and odd behavior, secret phone calls, etc., are certain though. So, I haven't done it.

I think I do love "what she used to be". But I'm having a real hard problem taking $35K out of our savings right now, because I don't think this latest effort will be any different, but I can't get the huevos to go through an expensive high conflict divorce with a whacko right now either. I guess I keep thinking god will intervene and make her all better, and maybe we can have some semblance of our lives back.

Somebody tell me, when I meet with her in the AM, that I should go with my gut instinct and NOT bend on this one and give her the money and make her fend for herself (even if that means making the stupid decision to take the money her parents have offered) and tell her its time SHE showed US she is willing to take care of her own problems without burdening others and show US that SHE is a normal human able to crawl out of her cave and join the human race again.

Or, tell me "she's ready for help and you need to help her" and make me feel good about that.

Thanks guys!

Barbara52

Have you seen an attorney? Find out exactly what your obligations are and what options you have.

If it were me, I wouldn't pay, especially since you say she has the money available. Why would you want to throw more money after an alcoholic who doesn't sound serious about seeking recovery in any form? She has the financial means. Let her pay for her own treatment thatq she says she wants so badly.

I doubt her parents have any standing to sue you since I doubt you will have held a gun to their heads to make them pay.

wraybear

sorry, can't tell YOU what to do. But from my past experience, when I kicked him out after 14 years, cut all ties, financially and otherwise, and went on with my life (and the kiddos lives) he got worse, much much worse. But, this is what helped him to hit his bottom and he has now been 2 years sober. This is a miracle, because this was someone who drank for close to 25 years. Almost killed himself and our children in a car accident, almost died a couple other times due to heart almost stopping from too much alcohol. He spent 9 years in and out of AA and too many rehab centers to count. A concrete detox (JAIL) was the beginning of his recovery. Now he is heavily involved in AA and is the man I knew was in there somewhere.

You need to do what is in YOUR best interest and the best interest of your kiddos. You should also NOT FEEL GUILTY for your decision either way.

A's can ruin us, financially as well as all the mental stuff we allow ourselves to get sucked into. Have you considered Al-Anon for yourself?

Make your decision and FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT!

Peace and contentment to you!

PS, let her mom and dad go to family day if you don't feel like going!!!!!!!

best

If she has a MH issue as well as the drinking... one could be cause for the other.
She has tried treatments for the alcoholism...maybe trying to point her in the direction of seeking treatment for the possible MH issues could be an answer?
If she gets a grasp on any possible MH issue, it could help her find a peace about her that could help her with the drinking issues.

paying 35K will not gaurantee anything. Paying 3K at a local place holds no gaurantee either. A person only gets out of any program what "they" are willing to put into it.
For that reason...if they pay, they may feel more ownership of the expected results.

Many MH issues have an ingrained form of denial that can come with such and for that reason is why I give "opinion" of maybe seeking out guiding her that way.

I would say...trust your own gutt because neither way is gauranteed but either way "could" be what may click this time. A possible MH issue would have me wondering what I would do myself. Pray and ask for guidance and maybe talk with a MH Dr for some added feedback would sit right with me.

best

ditto

miss communicat

trust your gut
look out for the interests of your children
minimize harm on all levels to yourself
she sounds very good at assigning blame, manipulating and pointing fingers
there will be no lawsuit, these are empty threats (+ no lawsuit against you will stick)


There are other options for achieving sobriety that don't cost 35K: AA is free and works if one works it (wants it)

harleygirl92156

Peronsonally, I wouldn't give her a dime after that many failed "attempts" but the laws are different in all states.

If she is able to pay for it herself then she should. If you found out today you had cancer, would she be willing to pay for your chemo???? Same difference as far as I can see.

If the money in the savings account was put there by you and you alone, the there would be no reason to use it to pay for her treatment. If she contributed to the savings account during the marriage, then I would say you might offer to give her HALF, but like I said in the beginning, I wouldn't personally give her anything and let them sue.

Threats used to manipulate....hummmm.....that's a new one from an alcoholic....(being sarcastic...lol)

outdoor1

Thats been her main argument to me as to why I should authorize joint funds at his time. "If you had cancer I'd pay ....whatever it took........out of our joint funds to help YOU!"

To me this isn't cancer or anything close. Cancer treatment, you (or more likely insurance) pay, they cure or not, you move on or not.

Difference here to me is she's BEEN given priviy to the FINEST medical treatment 4X (not like she was ever denied) and just won't follow the prescribed plan for recovery, or make a solid plan or be responsible for herself, even though all centers develop an exit plan and recovery plan for patients. Sober living arrangement was something she "didn't need". Big mistake in my opinion. She's in denial.

To me, graduation from treatment centers is really the START, not the END of treatment as so many think. A person as bad as my wife, shouldn't be trusted for 6 mos min after treatment?

They give the tools, but after that, there is no "rainbow" and its AA they all recommend (typically, which again she doesn't "like" as it boring and repetitive).

laurie6781

Salvation Army has a great program and it's free.

Please do not feel guilty about NOT paying for another treatment, as has been said, the welfare of your children and you as you are their caregiver COMES FIRST.

Please check with an attorney to see what the laws are in your state.

Also it might be a good idea to get the children into therapy or Alateen if they are old enough and it wouldn't hurt to check out some Alanon meetings for yourself.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, we do care.

Love and hugs,

DII

Sounds just like my AW. I was telling a friend this weekend that most alcoholics follow a similar pattern......it's pretty weird. The one common thing is that the alcoholic has to hit their bottom before THEY decide to make a change and embrace their recovery. Only you can decide to stick around for the ride or move on. I don't have the answer for you but I agree with Barbara...trust your instincts and protect your children!

steve11694

See if you can go together with her parents and speak with either/or sober acl's/addiction specialist that can help her folks understand the importance of ALLOWING the alcoholic to FEEL the consequences. withholding more money is the loving thing to do.

SaTiT

Give me $10,000 and I'll tell her to attend 90 meetings in 90days.
This way you'll save yourself $25,000 and no more expections.

and "don't pick up no matter what" will have have some deep meaning to her.

why is it that simple and cleaer to me...I'm not emotionally attach to her.

I'm sorry it's a bit confusing for you, I have the same problem with my gf.
I make insane decisions while being emotionally attached to her.

don't like her doctor's opinion...get another doctor.
Your wife been through treament and out patiant.
Tell her doctor to bust out with $35,000 and let's see how supportive
her doctor is.

tell her to start applying out she learned.
mmmm...like go to meetings after you get's out of treatment.
Doing it oneday at a time and sometime fiveminutes at a time.
Sponsors are free
recovery is a life time process.

she'll probably say she's a special kind of alki.
The garden veriety alki all say they're special.

btw..I'm also a recoverying alki. i was refused treament becuase
i walked off of my job and had no insurance.
I slept in my car and waited for meetings..oh freaken well.
not everybody had done what i did...some had worst situations.

it was a blessing in disguise... i cut through the BS.
i was either going to get sober or I wasn't.
yes i had hang ups about going to AA...but hell..gold figure,
i didn't have any hang ups messing up my life or my love one's.

SaTiT

we all make mistake.
Just a remainder. Your straining order is no good.
You made contact with her. You allowed the phone calls or contacts.
She can use that against you on a good day.

it's problem most of us codies have. We make or allow contacts.
And we get suck back into the cycle of codi/alik dance again.

it's not so much when is it going to be her bottom?
It's when we hit our bottom.

I ended up sleeping in my car, after struggleing for 3 years.
Doing anything and everything under the moon thinking
I could make a different.
I'll write it again....I slept in my car for a month, i wasn't the one drinking or using.
never the less i suffer all the wreackage and consequence.
You know....she draged me down with her.
It hurts for me to hear that, but that's what was happening no matter
how much i love her.

Alcoholism can careless how much love i have for my gf.

I ended up bankupted..worst. i became dysfuntional.
i couldn't think straight, feel straight or acted straight.
I could no longer drag my butt into work from lack of sleep.
I wouldn't focus. Simple 5 minutes task would take me days.
She was wacked out of her mind and I was fully
awear and trying to makesense of it all...I went crazy, while she's
been numb and can't recall or wishy washy about everything.

Doing the samething and expecting different results is insanity.
I made contacts with my gf over and over again. Thinking and
hoping it would be different. Now, that the well is dry..she can careless.

NO CONTACTS...
I hear it all the time on SR or Al-anon.
It's simple , but it's not easy.
I have to emotionally detached, which takes time and it dosn't happen overnite
and it feels like I'm going against the grain of how I was taught of the
vaule of loving someone or a normal relationship.

As a recoverying alcoholic and a codependent.
I found it harder to let go of person i love every much.
It's a person and not a thing
The Dr. Jeckyl and Mrs. Hyde routine is about as close to emotional blackmail
as you can get.

mallowcup

Is she the woman she promised to be at the altar? Is she capable of living up to the vows she spoke? I believe that if you truly love someone and your addictions have cost that person, to stay and be taken seriously, you have meet that person you love on their terms. She has relinquished her right to call the shots.
Her history alone would be grounds for divorce. She is not and has not been a mutual partner.
She has been a disappointment.
Are you obligated? No.
I find it typical that an alcoholic spouse is so well versed in what you are obligated to be and do and sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooo
dismissive in their obligations.
She wants to offer to get help on her terms and she wants the support of everyone around her so that when she fails, she can blame you.
Alcoholics are so dull mentally and yet so self preserving and sharp when it serves them.
You have a stack of money that is going to go in one of three directions. 1. alcohol.
2. rehab on her terms. 3. divorce. Unless you have a money tree, I'd pick # 3.
Enough is enough.

historyteach

Depending upon the state in which you live, you may indeed be obligated to pay.
However, I wouldn't do it without a fight either.
You've done more than enough.

Never mind about her parents. They aren't ready to hear yet. THey may never be. I'm a parent of an addict; I know where they are at and they are not where you are. Let them alone. You will not convince them that they cannot *save* her. Sadly.

But, stand your ground. *If* you live in a state where the bank accounts are mutually owned, (like RI is), then you can deal with the reprocussions afterwords. *If* she sues you, it will only be for the amount of the treatment, so, you won't have lost anything more anyway. In the meantime, she will know that *she* has to deal with *her* problem.

I wish you well. Take care of the kiddies; they are the priority.

Shalom!

Mr. Christian

Oh this one is easy.


She is already out of the house. A good divorce attorney would stop this emotional and
financial drain on you and the kids.


Pleas don’t say it… “She’ll change”, no don’t say that, no.

mamaplus2kids

I paid over $30,000 for my husband's treatment, and the judge would not even allow that to be counted as money had spent on him! Use the money to protect yourself and the children. She should pay for the treatment herself!

mallowcup

I agree that leagally I'm sure there all kinds of techincalities that apply to different states. In my mind when I become convicted in my head and in my heart that I will or will not do something based on that conviction, the law will not deter me. I am not a rebel or a radical by any stretch. What I'm saying is this....
Your wife can pressure you using a law to get you to pay for another attempt on her terms and probably alledge that you are not being supportive if you don't.
She has a history of unsuccessful rehabs.
If she attempts to guilt you, pressure you, threaten you or balckmailyou into doing any of this on her terms you can play hard ball. She will not want her history brought into a court.
This sounds hard and harsh. I think it is the first step in your own recovery. Drawing lines that you will not cross.
If there is a law that states that you have to pay for her rehabs, where is the line? Are you supposed to just keep paying periodically when the wind changes directions and she decides she better check in so that everyone will be reminded she has a disease?
I am a nurse. There are convictions that I have that will not allow me to particpate in certain nursing events such as abortion. I will am pro choice but I will not particpate actively in an abortion. There are places that could and would fire me because I am bound by law to perform my duties. My convictions come from my own personal experiences and I just can't be a part of that. I also can't explain my convictions to everyone who has something to say about it.
As you become a pillar of your own beliefs, you become a person to be respected. Respect feels good.
You are knowledgable about alcoholism and you can not and should not live your life within the limitations of what others can not understand.
Sometimes that will leave you sitting there alone.
I would rather sit alone for a bit than to have the mental damage of living the way everyone else thinks I should. They talk and they have opinions but at the end of the day, they can always invite him over to stay with them if they want to...oh yeah, but they rarely do and if they do it is usually a short stay.
I think you are on the right track in your recovery thinking, you just need support.

guyinNC

I'm so sorry. Keep your money. Begin making plans to cut all financial ties with her. This means beginning the process of divorce.

As for the comparison between alcoholism and cancer. Sometimes you don't spend the money for treatment for either..... If you know the treatment will not work.

For her, it will not work. The cure is inside her...and she has to want it. To go hang out at a rehab with other addicts is a wste of money. She has had the lectures, been there before. She knows what to do......she just wont stop until she is ready.

mallowcup

What I sense and recognize here is a strength rising up inside you and that is a very important thing not to let others kill. That seed of strength is allowing you to consider saying "no". Don't be intimidated or shut down by others. Your soul is begging to exist.