keepingmyjoy

The AH has been drinking at work on his lunch hour, I know this because I smell it on him...etc. But this time, he came home completely drunk! He was his usual nasty self. He would come in and out (he smokes, but we don't in the house) from smoking and would just change the channel on the TV while son and I were watching something else. And, it was this heavy metal music show he taped...something little guy does not need to see (alittle too scary images for his age). So little guy and I moved to bedroom to watch something more appropriate and to play cars on our bed. He also had a big can of beer in a paper bag out in the garage. Does he really think I would not notice!

Meanwhile, sarcastic comments keep filtering from the living room said under his breath. I came out to put away the dinner stuff and he said a few more things. I have been trying to detach, but these words just bubbled up from my anger: "Stop being a sarcastic f***, I am sick of it!" After that, he still was a jerk, but was somewhat more toned down. Then he went to sleep...on our clean bed with his dirty work clothes on!

I finally got caught up on the posts somewhat and I see so many of us struggling with boundaries. I too am struggling. I think now I need to pack a bag and have it ready w/ diapers etc and I need to tell him that if he comes home after drinking or brings alcohol into this house again, I will not stay here and put up with his sarcastic and abusive actions and that I will leave for the night. This boundary I can follow through on as I have set some things in place to make that possible, at least for the night. I am working on getting ready to leave permanently, but need more time to save etc.

I know that I cannot control him, but I am working on what the boundary will be for my not driving him to work and picking him up everyday. This is now expanding to something I did say to him when things were really bad and I joined here...I told him he needed to get help to find out why he is on self destruct. In my codie mind, I doubt myself.

Do you guys think if I said "First, I will not be able to drive you to work or pick up anymore after --such and such date-- as it has become too much for me now. Second, I will not be able to continue living here with you since you are not actively working on your recovery and it is too painful for me and son to live with you this way. I will be making arrangements in the coming months to leave with son."

What do you think? I am trying not to make ultimatums, but clearly state my boundaries....I feel so angry and need to take a step forward to getting out of this mess for my sanity and peacefulness for son. Please tell me what you guys think..

Thanks.

irelandx7

I agree there needs to be boundaries, but I think you need to tell HIM to leave, NOT you leave. Be firm, and let him know he is not welcome there with his smelly self. Even if he is the breadwinner, SO WHAT? He can't respect his home enough to stay sober at work and make the money to HAVE a home, he shouldn't be allowed to live there.

My AH has lived in our house since 1989, well before I ever came along. I've told him numerous times to leave because I don't want my children seeing that crap. I don't care ONE BIT that he pays all the bills. It's my house and my children's house too, and if he doesn't respect us in our own home, HE needs to be the one to leave.

Stay strong! **HUGS**

WantsOut

I also suggest that you tell him you are not picking him up anymore. If he asks you why tell him, "I'm sure you wouldn't want a (insert his favorite insult for you here) to drive you around."

You might want to seriously consider adding, "And btw, I've had it with your drinking and if it doesn't stop I am going to divorce you. Life is too short to put up with your drunken abuse."

We teach people how to treat us, and our children.

Love

keepingmyjoy

Thanks so much! See why I love you all!? After reading your replies, you are right, I can be stronger and say it more hard core. Anvil, I like the way you said it, concise and to the point and to me it screams "I mean business this time". This is why I don't trust myself sometimes...still unconsciously fall into the mode of "trying not to upset him". No more Mrs Nice Guy (in a way).

Ireland, without going into all the details, his favorite saying is "If you don't like it there's the door. I own this house, it is my house." There is no way he would leave it. I make as much money as he does, so if we divorce maybe I would get what I paid into the morgage back, but I am sure he would not leave. It is a barganing chip with him--not me anymore.

Wantsout...I like that, "Life is too short to put up with your drunken abuse." Can I use that? I would really like to.

denny57

It's not a bargaining chip, it's a THREAT. If you divorce you will get more than that back, believe me. I heard this crap from AH our whole marriage. Our separation just passed the 2 year mark and I am living in the house that is "his." He is in an apartment. His choices, his consequences.

Life changed for me when I stopped letting someone else dictate it.

keepingmyjoy

Wow...thanks denny! I guess it never occured to me that I could stay...If you don't mind me asking...how in the world did you get him to leave?

Apolla

> I think now I need to pack a bag and have it ready w/ diapers etc and I need to tell him that if he comes home after drinking or brings alcohol into this house again, I will not stay here and put up with his sarcastic and abusive actions and that I will leave for the night.<

YES, YES, YES. Except I would tell him that HE needs to leave. In MY opinion, mine only - I'd change the locks, tell him he is not welcomed coming home drunk and if he does call 911. :-) You have a child that needs to be protected in your home. If he will not leave the home, I would start now working on a plan where you can bring your child that is calm and safe for him. A place where you could stay until you get your life together. And no bouncing back and forth. Stable. Boundaries.

> "First, I will not be able to drive you to work or pick up anymore after --such and such date-- as it has become too much for me now. Second, I will not be able to continue living here with you since you are not actively working on your recovery and it is too painful for me and son to live with you this way. I will be making arrangements in the coming months to leave with son."<

That is exactly my boundary. No treatment? NO MARRIAGE. But you have to be ready to fully carry it out. So do your own work on yourself. Get money stashed away. Find a calm, safe home where you can stay. Prepare your son. Get therapy if YOU need it. So that when you make a boundary, it is calm, clear and it is TRUTH. You are done living with a man who has a deadly disease and refuses to get help. You want peace, love, happiness, calmness. YOU choose sobriety for your child and yourself.

Let him choose what he wants. For HIMSELF.

We do no one any good when we allow their actions to destroy our life. By our inability to stand up and say no - we give them added permission to deny their own disease. No more.

My heart, my energy, my faith is with you. Choose a good life, you and your child deserve it!

Barbara52

Remember you also have the option to call the police if he is drunk and abusive. That is a crime. Its a difficult thing to do but you can stand up for yourself and let him experience the consequences of committing a criminal act.

Apolla

I too have the boundary that if he drinks he is not coming home. And he never has. In the past if he relapsed he slept on his office floor. And I don't even have kids!

It's NOT HIS house. It's both of your homes. And there needs to be rules in the home for the sake of your child and yourself. PERIOD. When he is sober I suggest sitting down and mutually agreeing on the rules. If he will not agree to stay away when drunk, then you must either find yourself a safe, stable place to live OR when you tell him to leave if he gets abusive and will not go, I would probably call the cops. :-) I would, but I'm tough.

The one thing I would highly encourage ALL spouses of alcoholics to do is to go get a consultation with a divorce attorney and KNOW your rights. I did and my consultation was only $100. WHAT a bargain! Find out - Whose house is it? If you leave what sort of money can you expect. Write a list of questions and get answers. Doesn't mean your are divorcing, it does though mean that if your boundaries are violated and a drunk angry spouse will not leave the home you will know what your legal rights are. I would also call the police department and ask the the same thing. And then you tell him. This is my boundary. You come home drunk this is what I'm going to do to protect our child and myself. And then DO IT.

But even more importantly - I keep suggesting this book because it changed my life. No More Letting Go: The Spirituality of Taking Action Against Alcoholism and Drug Addiction by Debra Jay. I suggest it because what we really want to do I think is to help our loved ones get the help they need while we set our firm boundaries. They NEED help. Not our help. Professional, medical, psychological help.

While we set our boundaries and keep them we can also show them the way into treatment. We will not stay with anyone who is unwilling to get healthy but we will point the way to a facility where they can get help.

And then we let go.

keepingmyjoy

I most definitely would call the police..., but he is usually careful not to say this stuff too loud because of son. But, if he punches a wall (one of his favorite things to do in his garage) I would call for sure.

I have already started my plan, stashing money etc. Spent all I had getting my 21 yr old daughter out of this nuthouse first. She was his target as I mentioned in previous posts. I will be separating from him...just a matter of how and when. But working on myself, getting stronger (still have bad days), and preparing. I am just now having to set these boundaries since I do not want to play the game of pretending everything is fine the morning after. This morning, he acted like we were the happiest couple in the world....ick.

Apolla

Remember any divorce judge - their first priority is going to be protecting the spouse and the child from the alcoholic. In all reality, in a divorce YOU AND YOUR CHILD will be living in that house. Period. He will be camping out.

He's threatening that it is his home to manipulate and worse, intimidate you. WRONG.

Get the facts and set him straight.

Remember - you are not helping him by allowing yourself to be bullied and manipulated. AND even more importantly you are harming your baby.

HUGS!

keepingmyjoy

apolla...great ideas...I will do what you suggest...It will help me know what to do and make me feel more empowered to know what my options are and not flounder when these things pop up. Thanks so much.

Apolla

One more thing and I say this with kindness not recrimination > Spent all I had getting my 21 yr old daughter out of this nuthouse first. She was his target <.

Please, please, please do not allow your children to be tormented by an addicted spouse. It is wrong. They will be harmed for life. It's one thing when we foolishly harm ourselves but a far greater crime when we allow innocent children to be victimized by this abuse.

No. Please, do not let that happen. It's hard enough for an adult to handle the torment of an alcoholic - it is an impossibility for a child.

Protect. Set boundaries and follow them through. Keep yourself and your children safe.

denny57

I saw a lawyer, found out my rights. When he was away I had the locks re-keyed and told him he couldn't come back. In the beginning he wrote me an email demanding to be let back in - I wrote back and said he could come with police escort if he wanted to retrieve some belongings. In that email I mentioned my fear of his temper (he has punched holes in walls and once almost beat a man to death in a bar fight). I copied my lawyer. His lawyer advised him to stay away. It is the major thing he is angry about.

I had to make a decision to not live in fear and secrecy. I believe telling my reality in a calm, measured way lets people know I speak the truth. I think he is a bully and I will not live my life in fear of what he may or may not do.

Protect yourself and your child - you are all he has right now. ((()))

keepingmyjoy

Apolla, he had been very kind to my daughter (bought her a car, gave her money, but in recent months, it started to change. This coincided with his drinking more and more. She had to come live with us when she had a break up. HE invited her to come home...I said it was not a good idea as he was drinking (She is 21 years old). She came anyway. Things escalated in days and I got her out as fast as I could (2 weeks or so). But used $$ I had saved for leaving myself for her safety first....he targeted her for some reason for his nastiness (treats little guy rather well--just treats me like crap and has all the behaviors etc when drinking, but little guy is usuallying sleeping when that happens). But yesterday...he came home that way, hence my need to set the boundaries RIGHT NOW or get out with no $$ and figure it out from there. Believe me...I will not let him hurt my children anymore than he has. Thank you so much for caring!

Apolla

Denny 57, I think I love you! LOL

Putting the violent behavior in an email, sending to spouse AND attorney is brilliant. Keep a record. Amen. Smart, smart.

Also, be careful. When dealing with an angry possibly violent drunken spouse - be one step ahead. Call the police. Have a friend there. A brother. Don't ever try to do it alone.

You are my definition of success. NOT how you tried to change HIM but how you've chosen to live YOUR life.

So great.

Apolla

Keepingmyjoy - Again, I say this with love and kindness. And also honesty.

IF we think our children are not emotionally, psychological damaged by living with a drunken, alcoholic father who is not in full treatment - we are kidding ourselves.

IF we think our kids don't sense this disease all around them, our fear, our stress, our worry, our arguments, their insecurity - we are kidding ourselves.

IF we think our children are not harmed by seeing their father treat their mother like crap - we are fully deluding ourselves.

And we are also teaching them that this is what marriage is all about. Actions speak far louder than words. Trust me, your daughter may not make wise choices in men after living like this and your son is learning from his dad and mom some very unhealthy, dangerous lessons on life. It's the psychological damage that destroys.

Come on, no more kidding ourselves. Life is too short!

:-) I say this for me, too.

queenteree

Everyone here gave great suggestions, but may I remind all of you that different states have different laws when it comes to marital property. I live in NY, and I did consult an attorney 2 years ago to find out my rights. The attorney told me it is "both" our house, I could not put him out or make him leave and he couldn't do that to me either. She further told me that if he wanted to drink in his house, he could provided that he is not abusive, and if he was, then I could go to family court to get an order of protection. My AH was not an abusive man, but during the last 2 years of his late stage alcoholism, he did become nasty and has threatened to break things and once threw a lamp. I called the police, they came, said to me that he could break anything in "his" house, cause it's "his" property too, he could "drink" in "his house" if he wanted to just as I could if I wanted to. I am not a weak willed woman by any means, and I even filed for an order of protection against my husband, which was granted that he couldn't be intoxicated at the home, but I requested he be removed from the home and that was denied. I just don't want to give false hope. One suggestion I could give if you can't make him leave the home when he's intoxicated is that your boundary be that he go immediately to another room (say such as the garage, if it's heated) and he can drink all he wants, when he wants, provided he stay there and sleep there. That way you don't have to uproot yourself and your son, and it's not like you're threatening him. Leaving each and every time he gets drunk will, after a while, be hard on both you and your son (been there, done that). As for telling him that you will be leaving, I personally won't tell my AH that I'm leaving because I won't live like this anymore. I will just make my plans, put on a good face, put boundaries in place and when the time comes, just be gone. Why open yourself up to a dialogue that you know will either get him annoyed or be filled with broken promises? That's just the way I see it, take what you want and leave the rest. You'll get thru this though, so don't get discouraged.

Apolla

Great suggestions.

>The attorney told me it is "both" our house,< Exactly, her spouse was telling her that is HIS house. It is not his house it is both of theirs. And in a divorce a judge will likely (99%) rule in favor of the sober, stable, capable mother any day over a drunken husband. The welfare, the stability for the child always comes first.

I also would not allow alcohol in the home - where he can drink all he wants. NOT in my home!

In my home, we sat down and made agreements while sober. When drunk if broken - those agreements would be fully carried out by me. No drinking in this house and no drunk in this house either.

If violated - we no longer live together.

It's just all a process and we each get there when we get there how we get there. The point is to get there. One day at a time. With love, peace and hope for a healthy life.
:-)

keepingmyjoy

I agree that I need to protect my son. And I am aware that the atmosphere in the home is affecting him. So far, I have been able to protect him from seeing much of it, and no matter how I am annoyed, I do no show it while with the little guy. When I am at my worst...I get down on the floor and play games and laugh and giggle with him. We go for walks and he seems to be very happy at the moment. But, I know that I will not be able to hide this stuff from him anymore if he comes home drunk, instead of getting that way after little guy is sleeping. Thanks so much for caring...this is a wonderful place.