what i can't understand

Old 09-02-2007, 08:31 PM
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what i can't understand

Someone help me understand this:
Here's where i'm not getting past:
What happened to all the plans he made with me when he wasn't drinking? what happened to all the things he said to me about how happy i made him and how much he loved me. Were they lies? How do you just walk away from all of that? did i really make him SO angry by bringing up the fact that i was worried about him drinking again that he could throw all of that away and walk out on me? I don't understand. And i'm not being able to move forward bc i'm so confused. and Hurt. and just don't get it. It's like i know what i need to do, but i can't get over this wall bc those thoughts keep pulling me back down. I know i need to stop living my life for him, but how can i not take it personally that i wasn't important enough? so did he never mean those things? Does he just hate me now so much bc i brought alcohol up that he can turn all of those feelings he had off just like that? Please someone. help me understand, bc i don't know how much longer i can take this pain.
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Old 09-02-2007, 08:47 PM
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Try not to apply logic to an irrational mind. It just won't work. Unfortunately, for an addict, the substance they are addicted to (whatever it is) is indeed more important than any person can ever be to them. That is why it destroys so many lives. An alcoholic is focused on alcohol to the extend that a relationship is nearly impossible. Does he hate you? I can't say of course. But if you are making steps to take care of yourself and not him, he may very well resent it.

My AH also always said he loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. His actions however told me that alcohol was way more important than I. Or his daughters. Or anyone else. If he loved me, he would have listened when I pointed out that he drank to excess and I asked him to stop drinking. If he loved me he would have gotten a job rather than remain unemployed 2 yrs after losing his last job. If he loved me, he would have been willing to go to counseling. And so many other things.

I believe on some level he loves me in his own way. But that way included being real happy to have someone pay all the bills, take care of the house and yard and let him just withdraw and "enjoy" sitting around doing not much of anything and get drunk everyday. He is not so happy now that I left him and withdrew all financial support other than paying the mortgage until we can sell the house.
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
Someone help me understand this:
Here's where i'm not getting past:
What happened to all the plans he made with me when he wasn't drinking?.
Here is what I know and some of what my recovering AH has explained to me since he got sober.The plans we made when he was sober were plans he intended following through with. BUT I knew when he was active and he made plans, promises and vows, it would never be. Now looking back I realize I was the one setting myself up for failure because I made myself believe he would or could keep his plans, promises and vows.

Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
what happened to all the things he said to me about how happy i made him and how much he loved me. Were they lies? .
I would say all the things he said to you he meant. He probably did or does love you as much as an alcoholic can love. Their love is usually based on selfishness and manipulation, but only because that is all they know. There is healthy love and unhealthy love, but it is still love.

Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
How do you just walk away from all of that? .
You don't have to walk away, the choice is yours. Living with an active alcoholic and being happy is possible, but it takes a lot of work, work on yourself to be able to detach with love.


Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
did i really make him SO angry by bringing up the fact that i was worried about him drinking again that he could throw all of that away and walk out on me? I don't understand..
My recovering AH told me that BECAUSE HE LOVED ME, when he was active, I was the enemy. Why? Because I and his love for me stood in the way of his drinking. When he drank he felt guilty because he knew how badly it hurt me, couldn't stand to look at me the next day, to see the hurt in my eyes, the pain in my face. So he made me the enemy because that was the only way he could continue drinking and he couldn't stop drinking even though he wanted to more than anything. Well, he couldn't quit alone anyway. I didn't understand this for a long time either, but when he explained it to me, in looking back on it, it made perfect sense to me. Sad, but true. They have to make themselves believe you are the enemy in order to keep doing what they are doing, doesn't mean they love you any less, it is just something they have to do, in their mind, to survive.

Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
And i'm not being able to move forward bc i'm so confused. and Hurt. and just don't get it. It's like i know what i need to do, but i can't get over this wall bc those thoughts keep pulling me back down..
Do you go to Al anon? If not there could be help for you with this issue around the tables there.

Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
I know i need to stop living my life for him,.
That is good, it is a first step to taking care of yourself


Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
but how can i not take it personally that i wasn't important enough?.
I remember sitting home alone while he was out drinking and thinking, "if he really loved me he wouldnt do this to me." Well, now I realize he wasn't doing ANYTHING to me, he was doing it to himself. They are so self destructive. My husband has told me, he never wanted to hurt me, it was the last thing he wanted to do. Said he would go with the guys for a drink after work because it was someones birthday, anniversary, they got a new car, they had a hang nail, you get the drift....lol....and when he got to the bar he would tell himself he was only going to have one or two and he meant it. Said he would tell himself, he could only stay 30 minutes then he had to go. Then he said all of a sudden it was 5 hours later and 10 o'clock and he had no idea how that much time had passed, he knew he was already in deep dodo at home so he might as well just stay cause if was going to get in trouble he might as wall delay it as long as possible so he would close down the bar and head home to take his licks and by golly, there I was waiting to give them to him.

Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
so did he never mean those things? .
I don't know him, but I would say most likely he meant some of them, but some were probably manipulation to get you to do and act the way he wanted.

Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
Does he just hate me now so much bc i brought alcohol up that he can turn all of those feelings he had off just like that?.
I doubt that he hates you, like I said, he probably sees you as the enemy now because he feelings for you make the guilt come and he can't deal with the guilt so he can't deal his with his feelings. Alcoholic don't turn feelings off, they drown them sad as it is, that's what they do.


Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
Please someone. help me understand, bc i don't know how much longer i can take this pain.
Alcoholics are very hard if not impossible to understand. I would suggest learning as much as you can about the disease and that should help you understand more about what he goes through dealing with the disease he has.
As far as the pain, it is there, you can deal with it or walk away from it, the choice is yours, but which ever choice you make, do it for YOU. Take care of you, and let him take care of himself. You can love someone while taking care of yourself and remember, loving someone doesn't mean you have to give up who you are and what you stand for or will stand for. Take some time and really think this through carefully, is this something you are ready to live with the rest of your life?
Remember the three C's.
YOU DIDN'T CAUSE IT
YOU CAN'T CONTROL IT
YOU CAN'T CURE IT

Last edited by DesertEyes; 09-02-2007 at 09:36 PM. Reason: fixed broken quotes
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:40 PM
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Harley, thank you so much for that post, you answered a thousand questions i never got the answers to from my exabf. Wow, that's alot to comprehend. Thank you again, it seems a bit clearer looking back.

You'll start to feel better each day, i promise. It's hard to understand why they do and say what they do. Like Barbara said, your not dealing with a healthy mind unfortunately. One day at a time
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:41 PM
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"My AH also always said he loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. His actions however told me that alcohol was way more important than I."

Ditto....the love for alcohol is much greater unfortunately. And i don't think my exab truly knows how to love, he's masked every emotion possible behind drinking. Sad but true.
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:58 PM
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I don't think alcoholics love alcohol more than people.

Truth be know, most hate alcohol and the devestation it brings to them and those they love.

It isn't love for alcohol that makes them drink, it is the DISEASE.
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:50 PM
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I guess it is different for everyone. From experience with my ASister, she blamed others, made many promises, very unreliable, lied, manipulated and caused destruction in many peoples lives.
I really think though, that when she is drunk, she talks her own truth. Her own language if you know what I mean. To us, it is crazy stuff. I guess if I were intoxicated most of the time, I would talk alot of crap too! I dont think the norm would or could be expected to understand this madness. As hard as it is to hear what he is telling you, the actions he takes, you have to make a hard decision. Will you continue to live this way and screw your own mind up or take a step to work on your own life. Im not sure I could really live with an alcoholic. I guess Im too selfish because I want to enjoy my life, not second guess it all the time.
Good Luck
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:00 PM
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my A can, at times, be exyremely honest about what he really feels or not.

Sometimes he cries when he talks about the hurt he has caused, says all he wants is to be free from his prison. Just too scared to go the hard pth.

next day he says I am the reason, and he hates me the most. Yes, the word enemy has come into play SOOOO many times.

i think he does have trouble loving. I dont know if he knows what it is, but, I know he is sorry SOMETIMES, and it depends on where he is in his quest for drink.
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:32 PM
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CD maybe this will help you to understand, Jon wrote this several years ago and its reprinted a lot here, lol :

What Addicts Do

My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.

My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.

My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.

And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.

Stop being surprised.

I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~

CD I am a double winner, sober many years now and almost as many in Alanon and I can tell you that when I was in the 'throes' of my affliction, Alcohol and drugs were my MASTER. I was as much a slave as the black people were before the Civil War.

Oh I loved my family, my children, and my grandchildren, but damn the alcohol and drugs HAD TO COME FIRST. When I said things while sober, I meant them, however, old King Alcohol would raise his ugly head and I was off and running. Only when I finally became sick and tired of being sick and tired was I able to seek help to learn how to change and live sober and clean.

Please remember the 3 C's:

You didn't CAUSE it,

You can't CONTROL it, and

You can't CURE it.

Alanon will help you a lot to work on you and work on your own goals. Please try at least 6 meetings, I do believe you will be pleasantly surprised at the help you will receive.

Hope this helps some to calm you and give you a little peace.

Love and hugs,
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:31 AM
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Thanks Laurie, I have read this too. I think the alcoholic treats others the way they treat themselves....I think this says it all.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:06 AM
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Boy, I needed this thread right now! It's amazing the stages you go through during the recovery process, and the things you can't hear until your ready to. I'm finally ready to hear this, stop kicking myself, and give the behavior back to XAH. Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps.....
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:44 AM
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Wow. that letter was very, very amazing. i am going to print it out and hang it where i can see it. Thank you all so much.
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Old 09-03-2007, 11:07 AM
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CDK, I emailed your post to two of my friends who have been helping me get through this latest "episode" with my XABF. It is amazing how your words could have easily been mine.

He told me I was the last woman he would ever be with. We would grow old together. We would travel together. Every conversation ended with "love and miss you." He would finish drinking forever within three weeks. We were going to plan our next vacation when we got back from the one were on. He had a list of about a dozen "get my affairs in order" things to do in August. He was talking about a complete turnaround.

What he did instead ... went to Key West with friends the next weekend, binged days and nights away, watched two women have sex in the back of his SUV on the way back, quit calling me altogether, and went back to a bar trash XGF.

He walked away from it all, and the only thing I can say is that he's demented from the drink. I agree - they are sociopaths. It's like a demon is possessing them. Or maybe it's a slow suicide. Or self-loathing. Or all of it wrapped up in one.
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:06 PM
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So how are you dealing? How do you detach and get those promising words out of your head? It's like they ring over and over and over and i want to believe so badly that he meant them. That their still in there somewhere. are they? He took a "break" from me,, saying that he just needed to clear his head and decide whether he really was an alcoholic or not-he's never promised me to stop drinking-and that me "trying to control" him was more than he could take. don't normal people have arguments when they voice their feelings? No. Shane just breaks up with me. but this is the longest its been (two weeks) and i'm feeling confused, and so hurt.
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Old 09-03-2007, 01:05 PM
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Hi, cdk!

I heard all those "promises" and "promising words" too. It was when I was getting sick of hearing words that I began to seriously think about the relationship I had with XABF until it finally dawned on me that his relationship with alcohol was more important than any other relationship in his life including me, his children etc. Before I finally summoned up the courage to break off with XABF, he had tried to break off with me because he didn't like hearing me "lecture" at him about AA, working a programme etc but he'd come back hooking me in with more promises. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when he confessed to being in jail for a DUI after telling me he had been in rehab.

Be assured that Shane is still deep in his relationship with alcohol. His world revolves around it.

I felt hurt and humiliated and embarrassed that the relationship I wanted to believe in had evaporated into alcoholic vapours but I am so much better off today than I was six weeks ago. ((((cdk)))))

By the way, is that your dog in the avatar? What a cutie!

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Old 09-03-2007, 03:38 PM
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Yes, that's Eddy He and my two pugs are seriously what's keeping me halfway together right now.
How do i get rid of feeling so guilty? Like i caused all of this? How do i stop caring if he hates me or not? How do I get passed those issues?
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:56 PM
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How do i get rid of feeling so guilty?

Re-read Co-dependent No More. Why do you feel so "responsible" for him. He is defined at this point in his life by alcohol. You don't make him drink. He chooses to drink. He is an addict! Scroll up and re-read "What addicts do". I will hurt you again and again and again. If he is hurting all those who touch his life, he is the one who should be feeling guilty!!

How do i stop caring if he hates me or not?

Maybe by thinking a little bit about how he deals with it. He white-knuckles it through the working day then hits the booze as soon as he can. He did that before you went no contact and he is continuing to do it but with more "reason" this time because he doesn't like it that YOU figured out what was best for YOU.

Hugs to Eddy and the pugs and to you too!

We'll all get through this.

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Old 09-03-2007, 07:36 PM
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My husband always promised we'd go on vacation. We NEVER did. He'd promise all kind of things, I would get excited but then, as usual, we never go to do anything.
After a while when the promises kept coming, I didn't get excited any more.
I just blew it off as another addict moment.

He went down hill slowly. When he finally got to be 6' tall and weigh 150, I felt like I woke up one morning and he had been replaced with a different person. In fact I had.

I stayed sad all the time, pining for what used to be.
I realized I couldn't change anything, but I could change my own life and start planning things without him.
I am at peace now. I have been for a couple of years. He chose all his addictions over me and I couldn't live in it.
I still remember the smart, educated, funny man I married. He's not the same guy anymore.

On a last note, I believe they don't have a choice as to what or who they choose over their addiction. It's the core of addictons.
I once listened in alanon to a woman. She remembered her grandfather driving to her mothers house, with her in the car. He stopped at the local package store and just stood outside the door. She said she knows now that he really didn't want to go in there. He was trying to fight going in and buying a bottle.
The alcoholism eventually won, as it always does, and he went in and bought a bottle.
So, he fed his addiction even though it was the last thing he truly wanted.
Alcoholics and addicts really don't want to live like this. But without AA or some kind of workable program, and the willingness to admit their lives have become unmanagable, they stay right where they are.

That's just a little of my understanding of their behavior.
I hope you're feeling better soon.
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:18 PM
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I guess i'm just feeling hopelessness bc i don't understand how at one point Shane quit and was telling me he knew he had a problem and blablabla, and now he is so adament that he DOESN'T have a problem...so does he really know he does and is not admitting it to make excuses, or does he REALLY think he DOESN'T? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND? Why did he come to that conclusion at one point, but now he is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum? Is it bc he doesn't want to admit it? Is it bc he can't be without it and feels guilty? OR does he TRULY not get it? I mean, he REALLY doesn't think he has a problem right now - or at least when i last talked to him. Sorry about all the caps If you were to look inside my head right now my brain would look like a big black scribble. That's what i feel like. I just don't get it?
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cdk1972 View Post
Is it bc he doesn't want to admit it?
(((cdk))) he's probably in denial that he has a problem. My ex told me he knew he needed to quit and needed help, so i helped him but they need to hit THEIR bottom to want to quit. It's nothing you did, said, didn't do, it's what he has chosen and no one can make him stop but him. You can hope he seeks treatment/help and quits but it's all upto them. Not a single reason you should feel guilty. You loved and supported him and now it's upto him to want to get better. I'm thinking of you, keep your chin up.
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