Teenage daughter and codependency
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Teenage daughter and codependency
What do you do when the toxic person in your life is your own minor child? It seems I am constantly at odds with her.
Short history--the A in my life is my husband of 18 years. I kicked him out two years ago and am proceeding with divorce. He is not drinking, but many of the behaviors that caused our problems are still present. I have been working on my issues and cutting ties with people who don't enhance my life. (Thank you, ICU for the concise description) The divorce is in progress, but we remain civil and have worked out the parenting and visitation issues without any drama.
My almost 15 year old daughter and I cannot seem to find peace in our relationship. I know part of it is her age--I was a rebellious teenager and there is probably some karma there.
Another part of it is that she blames me for her troubled childhood. And I accept that I played a major role in the dysfunction of our family while she was growing up.
My part of it is I simply don't like doing things for her. And I realize, as I posted in another thread today, that part of my old pattern is expecting people to appreciate me when I do for them. No matter how much I do for her, she doesn't appreciate it and is snotty and mean. If I do nothing for her, she is snotty and mean. If I bend over backwards and try to do nice things for her, she is still snotty and mean. Makes me want to do nothing for her, you know?
But, where do I draw the line? And how much of it is me, not her? And it's complicated by the fact that I have another child--her 10 year old brother. So, for instance, if I say I'm not cooking dinner tonight because you don't appreciate it, her brother suffers, too. He is not a problem and his attitude is good. He pitches in and helps me out and says thank you and all that stuff. So, how do I set boundaries with my daughter and still be a good parent to both of them? Or should I? This is hard.
L
Short history--the A in my life is my husband of 18 years. I kicked him out two years ago and am proceeding with divorce. He is not drinking, but many of the behaviors that caused our problems are still present. I have been working on my issues and cutting ties with people who don't enhance my life. (Thank you, ICU for the concise description) The divorce is in progress, but we remain civil and have worked out the parenting and visitation issues without any drama.
My almost 15 year old daughter and I cannot seem to find peace in our relationship. I know part of it is her age--I was a rebellious teenager and there is probably some karma there.
Another part of it is that she blames me for her troubled childhood. And I accept that I played a major role in the dysfunction of our family while she was growing up.My part of it is I simply don't like doing things for her. And I realize, as I posted in another thread today, that part of my old pattern is expecting people to appreciate me when I do for them. No matter how much I do for her, she doesn't appreciate it and is snotty and mean. If I do nothing for her, she is snotty and mean. If I bend over backwards and try to do nice things for her, she is still snotty and mean. Makes me want to do nothing for her, you know?
But, where do I draw the line? And how much of it is me, not her? And it's complicated by the fact that I have another child--her 10 year old brother. So, for instance, if I say I'm not cooking dinner tonight because you don't appreciate it, her brother suffers, too. He is not a problem and his attitude is good. He pitches in and helps me out and says thank you and all that stuff. So, how do I set boundaries with my daughter and still be a good parent to both of them? Or should I? This is hard.
L
Last edited by LaTeeDa; 08-20-2007 at 08:35 PM. Reason: clarification and typos
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Does your daughter go to Alateen or get any kind of counseling?
My father was an alcoholic and my parents divorced when I was about her age. Reading about your daughter, it sounds like your describing me back then. I was very angry at both of my parents and also VERY rebellious.
I wasn't provided with the opportunity for counseling. I think it would have helped me learn to process all my emotions. Feelings of abandonment when F left, guilt feeling partly responsible for the whole mess, low self esteem, grief from loss of the family unit, feeling betrayed by my parents and adults in general, my trust and respect was gone, not wanting to bring my friends home because I was embarrassed. Being mean to my mom so I didn't feel like I was choosing her over my dad. The list goes on and on.
My father was an alcoholic and my parents divorced when I was about her age. Reading about your daughter, it sounds like your describing me back then. I was very angry at both of my parents and also VERY rebellious.
I wasn't provided with the opportunity for counseling. I think it would have helped me learn to process all my emotions. Feelings of abandonment when F left, guilt feeling partly responsible for the whole mess, low self esteem, grief from loss of the family unit, feeling betrayed by my parents and adults in general, my trust and respect was gone, not wanting to bring my friends home because I was embarrassed. Being mean to my mom so I didn't feel like I was choosing her over my dad. The list goes on and on.
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i also think counseling might be beneficial. the psychologist at her school should be able to help and provide insight... and help her realize how her actions are making you feel.
a lot of it could be the teenage hormones, or things going on with friends or boys or whatever, and she takes it on you simply because you're THERE and it's in the rules that you love her unconditionally. i'm 24 and i still fight with my mom for absolutely no reason, other than the fact that she's on the phone and no one else is when i'm angry or upset. i don't do this ALL the time, though.
have you tried sitting down and talking to her about how you feel? or writing her a letter? somehow convey to her that what happened in her childhood with your husband isn't what you intended to have happen, and you'd like to try to change things now, with her help. you could always make your son dinner, and tell your daughter if she can't say thank you and appreciate that you've gone out of your way to make something for you to share as a family, she can find her own things to eat. or if she doesn't want to pitch in around the house, you won't do her laundry or clean her bathroom or restock her toilet paper.
a lot of it could be the teenage hormones, or things going on with friends or boys or whatever, and she takes it on you simply because you're THERE and it's in the rules that you love her unconditionally. i'm 24 and i still fight with my mom for absolutely no reason, other than the fact that she's on the phone and no one else is when i'm angry or upset. i don't do this ALL the time, though.
have you tried sitting down and talking to her about how you feel? or writing her a letter? somehow convey to her that what happened in her childhood with your husband isn't what you intended to have happen, and you'd like to try to change things now, with her help. you could always make your son dinner, and tell your daughter if she can't say thank you and appreciate that you've gone out of your way to make something for you to share as a family, she can find her own things to eat. or if she doesn't want to pitch in around the house, you won't do her laundry or clean her bathroom or restock her toilet paper.
Keepingmyjoy
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
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Sorry to say, been there, done that! Daughter is now 21 yrs old. Nothing makes her happy. She is crabby, miserable and when she was 15 was in and out of trouble. I sometimes wondered if I would live through it all. I even tried counseling for her and she either would refuse to talk, or be so evil to them that they would say that she was not ready to address the issues. Uugh.
She is still difficult at 21. But, don't give up. I really know how hard it is to not even want to do anything for them-they make you feel that way. But just keep trying to show your love for her. I have come to the conclusion that my daughter might always be a difficult person, but there is good in her and I see it more and more as she gets older. You will too. Just keep telling her that you love her no matter what. You may not approve of how she acts or her choices, but you will always love her.
I wish I could say something to make you feel better. But if you can get through to her that she is loved, you will have accomplished so much. My daughter is finally admitting that she was a total **** to me, but that now she sees how much I did love her! Wow, I guess miracles happen! They will for you too! Just hang in there. Love and Hugs.
She is still difficult at 21. But, don't give up. I really know how hard it is to not even want to do anything for them-they make you feel that way. But just keep trying to show your love for her. I have come to the conclusion that my daughter might always be a difficult person, but there is good in her and I see it more and more as she gets older. You will too. Just keep telling her that you love her no matter what. You may not approve of how she acts or her choices, but you will always love her.
I wish I could say something to make you feel better. But if you can get through to her that she is loved, you will have accomplished so much. My daughter is finally admitting that she was a total **** to me, but that now she sees how much I did love her! Wow, I guess miracles happen! They will for you too! Just hang in there. Love and Hugs.
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Yes, we have a counselor who both my kids have been seeing since the separation. It has been a good thing in a lot of ways, but I sometimes wonder if it adds to the blame she puts on me. (having her feelings validated by the counselor, that is) That, and the fact that she only wants to communicate with the counselor, instead of me, leaves me wondering if it may be time to end the counseling and force more direct communication. But that may make things worse, too.........Uhg!
Don't get me wrong, we have a wonderful counselor, but I sometimes think that she has served her purpose and it's time to move on. It's like we're stuck in the counseling mode and not moving forward in our communication with each other. I haven't discontinued counseling because I don't want to give my daughter another reason to resent me. Maybe I just need to be more patient with the whole process. We were dysfunctional for a long time. Repairing our family will probably also take a long time. I just feel frustrated because I have made major strides in my recovery and want everyone else to as well.
L
Don't get me wrong, we have a wonderful counselor, but I sometimes think that she has served her purpose and it's time to move on. It's like we're stuck in the counseling mode and not moving forward in our communication with each other. I haven't discontinued counseling because I don't want to give my daughter another reason to resent me. Maybe I just need to be more patient with the whole process. We were dysfunctional for a long time. Repairing our family will probably also take a long time. I just feel frustrated because I have made major strides in my recovery and want everyone else to as well.
L
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Wow, I am going through the same thing. I think it's a balance thing. I have learned to let the insignificant stuff roll off my shoulders....but....we still are parents and the parenting must continue. My AW and I are separated, same drill as you and my two boys live with me. Tonight my 14 year old "finished" his homework and proceeded to spend the next 1 1/2 hour on the phone and MySpace. When I kick him off and get on the computer to do a few things before bed he comes back at 11:00pm and tells me he needs the computer to finish up some homework he forgot to do......sorry but he heard the parenting come out and didn't like it one bit. But my job is to remind him of responsibilty and getting the important stuff done first! I told him he would need to get up early to finish his homework!
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LaTeeDa, Is the whole family seeing the councelor or just your kids? If it's just the kids then maybe it's time to move it into family time....at least a few sessions here and there to work things out as a whole and not just separate people. This coucelor should be willing to work with the whole family as that it the only way to keep a family whole....I mean you and the kids, as the H is an ex-H, it is important to keep growing together as a family even if it's shorten one person. He, the father, can have his own session with her/ them if need be. But your concern is you and them at this moment.
You might even feel the need to search out a different councelor, one who can meet the needs you have. It's not just about them and their adjustment....you count too. Your relationship with your daughter at her age is important.
You might even feel the need to search out a different councelor, one who can meet the needs you have. It's not just about them and their adjustment....you count too. Your relationship with your daughter at her age is important.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa 
No matter how much I do for her, she doesn't appreciate it and is snotty and mean. If I do nothing for her, she is snotty and mean. If I bend over backwards and try to do nice things for her, she is still snotty and mean. Makes me want to do nothing for her, you know?
I could go on and on about C.... good student recently gone bad, lazy, lousy attitude, down right disrespectful at times, high expectations of treatment and privileges not at all age appropriate. We started out as buddies but it seems the older he gets the more of a parent I have to be. Come to think of it... it all started when he turned 13. I never once had to put him on restriction until last year. By the end of the school year he lost every privilege and it stayed that way for 6 weeks one time.
#1 son.. totally opposite from #2 son. Great student, hard worker, respectful and appreciative. I use to think I had this parenting thing down.. LOL!!!
Uh.... no words of wisdom.... just a rant from someone feeling your pain..
Keepingmyjoy
Join Date: Jul 2007
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They do make you doubt your parenting skills sometimes. I don't know about you, but sometimes I would get into a "bad place" and wonder what I did to deserve a kid like that since I am such a "nice" person! Where did she come from? But amazingly, she has begun to come out of it all. She still is a moody person and needy, but at last light at the end of the tunnel.
A word about counseling...You could be right about being validated at her appointments. You might consider a family appointment as suggested. But one thing I will tell you, when the kids are a mess they seem to really only hear what they want to hear. The counselor might be saying all the right things, but she may be taking only what she wants to hear out of it. I had that problem with my daughter. The counselor would validate a way that she felt, or would suggest that maybe Mom could have handled something differently, and she would come home and explain how wrong I was and that "the counselor said.....". She would try to be hurtful and say god awful things. But I had to keep reminding myself that this was her perspective, not mine, and that I was a good mother. It took alot of work, and that was hard considering the mess our lives were at the time. But love covers all things....
After reading that so many others of us deal with the same thing, all I can say is:
HANG ON! IT IS A BUMPY RIDE! But in the end, it will all be worth it!
A word about counseling...You could be right about being validated at her appointments. You might consider a family appointment as suggested. But one thing I will tell you, when the kids are a mess they seem to really only hear what they want to hear. The counselor might be saying all the right things, but she may be taking only what she wants to hear out of it. I had that problem with my daughter. The counselor would validate a way that she felt, or would suggest that maybe Mom could have handled something differently, and she would come home and explain how wrong I was and that "the counselor said.....". She would try to be hurtful and say god awful things. But I had to keep reminding myself that this was her perspective, not mine, and that I was a good mother. It took alot of work, and that was hard considering the mess our lives were at the time. But love covers all things....
After reading that so many others of us deal with the same thing, all I can say is:
HANG ON! IT IS A BUMPY RIDE! But in the end, it will all be worth it!
Acting not reacting
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I was very angry with my mother for a very long for the part I felt she played in my dysfunctional upbringing. That being sad, there were a couple therapists I had that did not encourage me to get unstuck and unangry and just almost thought it was ok for me to be mad at her indefinately. 1 in particular encouraged me to have no verbal contact with my mom when I was 14...living at home. Right, thats logical!
I was older when this happened, but when I was about your daughters age, I was raging inside about so many things, I was so mean to my mother, she was then mean to me, and then I'm running to the counselor about how mean my mom is! Family sessions may be a good idea to get communication moving in the right direction...Im not sure about replacing individual sessions with those...maybe in addition to?
One thing I did wantto mention though, is....L, she is 15. Just because she is angry with you, snotty, and mean, is not a direct reflection of your worth, your job as a mom, or anything..its a reflection (at least in part) of her age, hormones, and maturity level. I hope you dont take it too personally....
I was older when this happened, but when I was about your daughters age, I was raging inside about so many things, I was so mean to my mother, she was then mean to me, and then I'm running to the counselor about how mean my mom is! Family sessions may be a good idea to get communication moving in the right direction...Im not sure about replacing individual sessions with those...maybe in addition to?
One thing I did wantto mention though, is....L, she is 15. Just because she is angry with you, snotty, and mean, is not a direct reflection of your worth, your job as a mom, or anything..its a reflection (at least in part) of her age, hormones, and maturity level. I hope you dont take it too personally....
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
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Pony beat me to it......I would try family counseling, together.
I was a pain in the a$$ as a teenager too. I don't have kids and I wouldn't have wanted to deal with me either.
It got better with my parents and I. I bet it will with you too.
I was a pain in the a$$ as a teenager too. I don't have kids and I wouldn't have wanted to deal with me either.
It got better with my parents and I. I bet it will with you too.
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You're welcome LaTeeDa! That's funny...I'm about to post something along the lines of challenges of 'enhancing' very shortly.
I'm not a parent, but I do have experience being a miserable child, LOL. This below pretty much sums up what I was thinking, and feeling too...
How much of it is just normal 'female' teenage stuff, and how much of it is related to other issues is sometimes hard to determine I would think.
I don't have any experience to offer, just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you, and feel for your situation.
I'm not a parent, but I do have experience being a miserable child, LOL. This below pretty much sums up what I was thinking, and feeling too...
Originally Posted by elizabeth1979
One thing I did wantto mention though, is....L, she is 15. Just because she is angry with you, snotty, and mean, is not a direct reflection of your worth, your job as a mom, or anything..its a reflection (at least in part) of her age, hormones, and maturity level. I hope you dont take it too personally....
I don't have any experience to offer, just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you, and feel for your situation.
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do you go to alanon? what you are describing sounds like she is playing the blame game, whereby she is trying to persecute you and you are to play out the victim role. Al anon helped me with lots of slogans as well as particular behaviors the "disease" creates and when i was able to recognize the nasty behaviors, lots of times i would call it out to them- like i am not a victim and i will not accept your behavior, and then set a boundary, hardest part of course is sticking with it- but it didn't take too many of these before they figured out i would not be playing the various games that were so well learned from watching our alcoholic merry-go-round. God knows we don't need our kids trying to assume the role the A left behind. they also need to be allowed to own their own behavior and not expect us to take responsibility for it... that IS part of our co-dependency....jmo....
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There are some things that I would always do or 'be' for my child...part of that unconditional love means there are unconditional boundaries too. In the family I grew up in- our behavior was closely connected with parental approval, associated with love and attention. In other words...when we misbehaved (or were otherwise imperfect) they took it as if we were doing something to them instead of setting limits with consistent discipline separate from displaying love. A sense of personal shaming and/or 'the silent treatment' were typical. Feeling loved revolved around pleasing them.
My husband and I did not want to repeat that disfunction in our family- so the idea was to show strong secure love and discipline. The security and the strength of limits we set actually helped the kids have better self esteem because when we raised the standards- they knew we were believing in them and expecting them to rise to the occasion. We had three of our own and one of their friends here...ages 13-18 at one time!
What you did or didn't do in the past is over and you can start over with her, here and now. No parent does it right....all the time or in every area. Letting her use your mistakes against you won't work either, nor will allowing her to be snotty to you. You can decide not to listen to her when she behaves that way and remove privileges or luxuries like a cell phone if she defies the rules....then when she is civil- well, you could say that is what is expected in this house from now on. If she goes above and beyond then a reward is due. The same old techniques we learn in Alanon about what we can and can't control work with teenagers and just about anyone or anything else.
What makes it so hard is that parents who really care...like you do, agonize and want so badly to do a good job, and it's the most difficult thing to be a parent- especially when you do it alone. Hang in there.
My husband and I did not want to repeat that disfunction in our family- so the idea was to show strong secure love and discipline. The security and the strength of limits we set actually helped the kids have better self esteem because when we raised the standards- they knew we were believing in them and expecting them to rise to the occasion. We had three of our own and one of their friends here...ages 13-18 at one time!
What you did or didn't do in the past is over and you can start over with her, here and now. No parent does it right....all the time or in every area. Letting her use your mistakes against you won't work either, nor will allowing her to be snotty to you. You can decide not to listen to her when she behaves that way and remove privileges or luxuries like a cell phone if she defies the rules....then when she is civil- well, you could say that is what is expected in this house from now on. If she goes above and beyond then a reward is due. The same old techniques we learn in Alanon about what we can and can't control work with teenagers and just about anyone or anything else.
What makes it so hard is that parents who really care...like you do, agonize and want so badly to do a good job, and it's the most difficult thing to be a parent- especially when you do it alone. Hang in there.
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Thanks everyone. I almost put and 'OT' on this post, but it seems like it's not. As always, it's nice to know that I'm not alone.
We had a heart to heart conversation last night and I think we made some progress. I know we cannot solve the problem in one conversation, but it's a start. I told her that I understand her anger and that it's a perfectly normal emotion to feel sometimes and she might want to look inside and try to figure out exactly what the anger is all about rather than just letting it out by sniping or complaining or whatever. I told her that journaling helped me when I was angry at her father and I will buy her a journal if she wants. I also said that if she wants to sit down with me and tell me why she's angry I will listen and not judge. I set some ground rules about that, though. She is not allowed to ambush me with a conversation about anger. She needs to let me know that she wants to talk and we will both pick a time that works for us when neither of us is stressed or busy.
I also told her that I believe I have been allowing unacceptable behavior from her sometimes due to my guilt over the past. And that I will not be doing that any more. The past is over and I will not allow her to treat me badly because of it.
I also called the counselor to set up a meeting with her to discuss my concerns. And I will request a session with the two of us together after I meet with her on my own.
Progress, not perfection, right?
L
We had a heart to heart conversation last night and I think we made some progress. I know we cannot solve the problem in one conversation, but it's a start. I told her that I understand her anger and that it's a perfectly normal emotion to feel sometimes and she might want to look inside and try to figure out exactly what the anger is all about rather than just letting it out by sniping or complaining or whatever. I told her that journaling helped me when I was angry at her father and I will buy her a journal if she wants. I also said that if she wants to sit down with me and tell me why she's angry I will listen and not judge. I set some ground rules about that, though. She is not allowed to ambush me with a conversation about anger. She needs to let me know that she wants to talk and we will both pick a time that works for us when neither of us is stressed or busy.
I also told her that I believe I have been allowing unacceptable behavior from her sometimes due to my guilt over the past. And that I will not be doing that any more. The past is over and I will not allow her to treat me badly because of it.
I also called the counselor to set up a meeting with her to discuss my concerns. And I will request a session with the two of us together after I meet with her on my own.
Progress, not perfection, right?
L
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That is absolutely perfect LaTeeDa!
You conveyed that she is entitled to her feelings, but, there is a more appropriate way to express them. All teenagers need help with that! You've also shown her how you deal with anger in a construction manner, i.e., the journal.
You let her know that you are interested in hearing how she feels, but with some guidelines (respect) attached.
You've also let her know that you feel as though you've made some mistakes in the past, and how you plan to rectify them.
Will you adopt me? :-) I think very recently I've shown that I am trainable, LOL!
You conveyed that she is entitled to her feelings, but, there is a more appropriate way to express them. All teenagers need help with that! You've also shown her how you deal with anger in a construction manner, i.e., the journal.
You let her know that you are interested in hearing how she feels, but with some guidelines (respect) attached.
You've also let her know that you feel as though you've made some mistakes in the past, and how you plan to rectify them.
Will you adopt me? :-) I think very recently I've shown that I am trainable, LOL!
When Pigs Fly
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hey you, I'm sorry to hear about this, I know it all to well. my trouble is with my 8yr old. What I do is, no special treatment. I do the best to keep my parenting the same for all 3. I do the things that are "required" by me, cook, clean roof over head ect. If they are bad they sit in their room untill they can act like a human being. It is very hard and painful on my heart, but I hhave to be the Mom. They are the children.
I have always let my kids tell me or argue their side of the story , maybe they can change my mind maybe they can't but what I say goes. Your daughter is mad and is pointing her finger at you because YOU are the nearest, she loves you and one day will know what you did was for the best. Try to focus on the good things, and just love her. Believe me I know how hard this is, I almost pulled all my hair out over the weekend.
Love you, Kermmie
I have always let my kids tell me or argue their side of the story , maybe they can change my mind maybe they can't but what I say goes. Your daughter is mad and is pointing her finger at you because YOU are the nearest, she loves you and one day will know what you did was for the best. Try to focus on the good things, and just love her. Believe me I know how hard this is, I almost pulled all my hair out over the weekend.
Love you, Kermmie
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