respektingme

Alcoholism is a life-threatening disease. There is no cure, but it is treatable.

Cancer can be a life-threatening disease. For some, there is a cure. For others, there is no cure but it is treatable.

Okay, so I see the similarities here.

Now, when someone finds out they have cancer, most often they get chemo and/or radiation. Will it be fun? Oh heck no. They will make the person deathly ill and suffer tremendous pain. But it's something most people just assume they'll do to get better.

So, when someone admits they are an alcoholic, why don't most choose the treatment? Why do so many people who are alcoholics continue to not seek treatment, especially when they have children? Will abstinance be fun? No. Would it be as bad as chemo/radiation? I can't imagine it would be.

It's just absurd to me. I know, it's cunning and baffling. I used to smoke. I quit. Why? Because I don't want to have to kids my kids goodbye while they are still in grade school. Guess when a good friend died at 40 a few years ago from lung cancer, it sorta had an effect on me. Would I still like to smoke? Oh yeah! I think of it often. When I'm tempted, I imagine going to my grave early and leaving my kids behind.

I can not fathom trading the future of my 2 kids for my present. Leaving this planet early from my own addiction would scar them for life.

Anyway, just explaining some of my thinking. I'm in alanon, so I'm working on detaching. But I still can't accept that my husband would risk our children's emotional well being for his own addiction. And if he doesn't stay sober, I won't accept it.

DesertEyes

Hi there respekt

You bring up some interesting questions, lessee if I can tell you how it works for me.

Well, sort of. I have a terminal heart condition called "cardiovascular autonomic neuropathy". I participate in a group from the American Heart Association for folks with my kind of problem. We get a lot of people who do _not_ want their disease, and they will _refuse_ treatment. That's denial.

Eventually, most heart conditions get so bad that people are in _pain_. Physical pain. They pass out and wind up in the ER. That's a very good motivator, and we get a lot of "re-treads" who'd come thru a year or two ago and did _nothing_. Pain breaks thru denial very quickly.

Alcoholics suffer very _little_ pain from their disease. Many of them have a group of "enablers" that make it easy to drink and suffer no consequences. If it doesn't hurt, why fix it? That's true of most any disease.

"Admiting" is just words. Words require no effort. Denial is stronger than any word.

That's called "hitting bottom". How come you didn't quit _before_ then? I'm going to guess that you had a bit of your own denial going on.

Ok. Can we take a look at the words you just wrote here? You just said that you can't "accept" what your husband has _already_ done. Your children's emotional well-being is _already_ affected, but you still don't "accept" that.

Please forgive me if I am too blunt. I was once a child in an alcoholic home, and my mother also would not accept that alcoholism affects children. So please forgive me if my own emotions cloud my judgement.

Can I ask what is going to be your "bottom" when it comes to your husband's disease? Your friend had to die for you to hit your "smoking bottom". What is the action that will cause you enough pain to "accept" that your children are _already_ affected.

I have been in al-anon for only 3 years, so I'm still fairly new at it. I have learned that as long as I am asking questions about _them_. About my ex-wife and her pill-addiction, then I am in denial of my own issues. My issue is why did I remain in a marriage for _years_ after my ex stopped being a partner and wife. Why did I always focus on her problems when _my_ problem is that I wouldn't leave.

When you focus on your husbands drinking, are you avoiding something personal the way I did? If so, then perhaps you want to examine that with some al-anon literature in hand. Or maybe bring up the question at your al-anon meeting. That's what I did and my life completely turned for the better.

Mike

denny57

Alcohol/ethanol is a drug that affects, among other things, the frontal lobe of the brain, where reasoning resides.

I think a lot of frustration stems from the "why can't you just stop" moral view. Educating myself on the physiology of it all really helped me let go of that.

I also think change is hard for everyone. I saw the damage alcohol was having in my life (and I wasn't the drinker) and stayed in denial for many years because I didn't want to have to change. I wanted HIM to change. It really is that simple for me: if I am incapable/unwilling to change, why on earth do I expect someone else to, sick or not?

Take what you like and leave the rest.

Wascally Wabbit

Because they are not addicted to cancer.

They dont seek treatment because they do not see themselves as having a life threatening disease. (Yet)

respektingme

Thanks all. Mike, our kids are 10 & 7. Due to my AH high functionality and self-imposed rules on his drinking, he has been waiting to drink until after the kids are in bed. Then he just drinks and goes to sleep at 11 or 12. He hasn't drank now in a month. He just finished his outpatient rehab. So, I guess the bottom for me will be if he can't stay sober. At that point, I realize the progression will make it impossible for him to hide. And I will leave and take my kids to Ala-child programs. Up till now though, he has been a terrific father. But I know in time, the alcohol (if he goes back) will change that.

Satchel

For me, my alcoholism always told me I did not have a problem. Even when I thought or was told I did - my character defects (which alcohol spun out of control) convinced me that I could control it. One of the biggest issues here is the physical. An alcoholic that takes the first drink physically has the cravings to have another - and the cycle starts.

"When everyone around you is losing their head and you've kept yours on, quite possibly you don't understand the situation." ---- I look back and am baffled that it was so obvious but took so much to get me sober.

In regards to the comment that A's don't have the pain or suffer consequences -- I respectfully disagree. I just made the choice to drink these issues away instead of dealing with life as life came. And when I did have to deal it really hurt (car accidents, dui's, separation...)

It is great to hear that your H is not drinking. For his sake and yours I hope he is working a program that will give him a spiritual remedy. All of my best intentions fell short until I turned my will and Life over to the care of a power greater than myself. Honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness help to bring about right thinking - at least for today.

Praying for the best for you and your family.

steve11694

respektingme,

YOU still have the ability to apply reason and logic as your mentation is OK. an addicts mentation is NOT OK. Just as a diabetic with very LOW blood sugar has impaired mentation so does an alcoholic.

Add the other elements such as #denial #euphoric recall #rationalization #inability to recognize a problem; and you can see why it is difficult to say the least.

I recall a recovering alcoholic/coke addict recount how much fun it was to be the pied piper. To have hordes of women wanting him, etc etc etc. It took losing everything he had to realize he had a problem. Before then it was great fun. Sober, he says life is much better.

guineapigjude

I think one of the big differences in the cancer/addiction comparison is that cancer is a disease that affects your life, while alcoholism is a disease that becomes your life. I know from first hand experience on both fronts that, while your life is altered and dominated by cancer, you don't come out of it craving it. Nor do you (as a rule) live in denial about the effects the cancer and/or treatment have on you and your life. I don't think I've ever come across anyone eho would risk everything to "protect" their cancer. Certainly while you are dealing with it, your actions/perceptions may be skewed, but you are also usually medicated and your body under stress, thereby altering you til the smoke clears. Seen it many a time.
Addiction becomes your entire life. Even a highly functioning addict has one goal in mind ~ getting to the time/place to drink. Everything else is just "stuff" to get through til they are able to drink/use again ... in most cases the "stuff" gets more and more difficult to tolerate, and the high functioning personna gets harder and harder to keep up. The house of cards eventually falls. They will do, say, and be whatever/whoever it takes to keep drinking. Their goal isn't life, their goal is drinking/using. That is all there is to life. There is no coming out the other side until they acknowledge there is another side.

Grasshopper

Hi,addiction is what it is,addiction.Cancer is not,a spiritual,or is it a mental disease.Alcoholism is.Its all 3.Phyical,mental,and spiritual.Read all that you can about alcoholism.You will find no logic in it.Because its not about sanity,but insanity.The,why,s of why another doesnt get,or even want help,is not only denil,but in the insanity of it all.Its not about the alcoholic loving or putting their families before the drink.Its about--addiction-obbession----hitting bottom---

respektingme

I guess I just don't get it. I'm either in denial or I just don't want to get it. I had cancer a few years ago. Didn't require chemo or radiation, but 2 major surgeries 6 weeks apart. I mean, the doctor said, "You need surgery" and I said, "Okay". I didn't say, "I'm not ready". It had to be done. I'm alive as a result. I guess I'm comparing apples to oranges. But I think of the physical withdrawals my AH went through (difficulty sleeping primarily) and then of the 8 days after each surgery that I spent in the hospital with a tube down my throat, no food, and enough pain that I couldn't sit up.

He knows he has a problem. He's not in denial. So, if he chooses to drink, he is giving in to something that he knows will make him lose his family. I know it's tough for him. Life is tough. I know he likes to numb himself. To what??? He has a great job, works 8 hour days and gets paid a tremendous amount, we have 2 kids whom he adores and I do all the rest. So he needs to drink to be numb? The hell he'll go though if he continues to drink won't be numbable unless he commits suicide.

That's just what I really think. Yes, I'm going to Alanon. I'm dealing with my feelings on the subject. Just saying that I have a boundary feels better. Before, I wasn't in denial about his drinking, I just hounded him unsuccessfully.

CE Girl

I've pondered this myself respectingme,,,

My conclussion, the addiction is the difference. The "intangables" in my A's disease. Powerful and cunning denial. Something missing when you see a "spot" or pass out from a diabetic comma.

No one or nothing comes before the drink. The "fight" to the death. An insideous disease.

Peace

guineapigjude

I think a lot has to do with their ability to cope, their emotional development, and their perception of what a "great life" is. My XAH seemed to have thrown everything away, and it was the same old "why does he need to drink" routine. But he couldn't handle the responsibilities, so he drank to numb that realization. He couldn't cope with his business and the stresses of life, so he drank to "help" cope. He was unable to handle emotional issues as a mature forty something would, as he had never handled any emotional issues without drinking/drugs since he was 13, so drinking and using are his only coping mechanism. While he certainly chooses to drink and drug, he's unable to face life without those crutches, and will always be until he gets help to get sober, and gets counselling to help him find more constructive ways to deal with life. It's a tall order, and that in itself would scare him away from trying. I can only hope he hits bottom and wants to climb up, but I'm not holding my breath.

Jazzman

Cancer is not a chemical dependency. Makes about as much sense as calling cancer an addiction. It fits in that it's chronic and fatal if not treated and that's what got the AMA to classify it as a disease. Good thing too because that means treatment is covered by insurance companies and that makes treatment available to more people suffering from a chemical dependency.

Mr. Christian

Im with Jazz on this.

People also make choices. They go to the store the buy the hooch, they drink it down. It's their free will to either continue or seek help. If you think about it every other thing they do in in life is like that.
It's for them only.
Selfish? Yep they are, cause it's all about them.

Sounds more like a major character flaw then anything else.

I stopped trying to get rational with unrational people a long time ago.

I value my inner peace.

CBrown

I can relate this with my own eating problems. That's going to be a lifelong struggle for me. My problem is mind-games, not mental problems.

My ABF reminds me a lot of my mother, who passed away in 1990. She was bi-polar, called manic-depressive back then, and required a trip to a psych ward now and again. My dad and I would take hours to persuade her to go in, then to sign that she wanted to stay. I remember how she couldn't think clearly, made arguments why she should leave, when she knew partially that she was deeply in trouble. Now I believe my ABF is bi-polar plus an alcoholic. I see the same thought processes, the denial, the unwillingness to listen to those who are telling him flat out, "You are dying. You will be dead in a year." I don't think it's a matter of the bottle, I think it's also dementia setting in. He still thinks he's working and tells me stories of clients he's giving advice to. Hell, he hasn't consulted in three years.

I just think a lot of it goes from denial to dementia. Just my humble opinion.

jennchip

This is what I responded to my mother-in-law when she used my husbands cancer-stricken aunt as a guilt trip. At the time I had left my alcoholic husband and my MIL did not think I was protecting my family by doing so.

FormerDoormat

Using the term, "functional alcoholic," is another form of denial we co-dependent partners often use. Alcoholics are not functional people; that's why they drink. Alcoholic families are not functional families. It doesn't matter if your husband waited until after the children were in bed. He was still under the influence of alcohol 24/7. Your children were well aware of your failing family dynamics, as was Mike when he was a child. And like him, they may have wondered why the only sober adult in the home didn't do what was necessary to shield them from harm.

So what steps are you taking today to shield yourself and your children from the harm that alcoholism caused all of you? And what steps will you take if he should resume drinking again? Chances are great that he will.

steve11694

The term "functional" has made me laugh on many occasions. one friend that IS recovered and very clear says he was a highly functional alcoholic for 17 years. Always working, etc etc but lost everything he worked for over and over again. I asked him if he'd ever been evicted from an apt or fired from a job and this self proclaimed high functional alcoholic replied " yes, so many time that I cannot count"

justjo

Respek, I use to ask all those questions over and over. My AS lost her husband, kids, job, mother, father, brother, money, nearly house, me, has been in rehab 10 times, detox 12 times. Rushed to emergency with a .35 reading and the day she got out guess what, got drunk.
I say, what does it take. It will be her death, by the looks of things.

steve11694

Not to mention definite alcohol induced chemical and physiologic changes in the brain confirmed with tests that include Positron Emission Topography