an'ka

I read this over and over on this board--"but I vowed to stand by him/her in sickness and in health"... And so we stay and we stay and we stay...We vow to do everything in our power to change the people that don't even want to change. We suffer verbal and physical abuse, we watch our finances go to the toilet, we try to shield our children from the effects of alcoholism even though children see right through us, we develop emotional and physical illnesses. And still we prowl on, because it is our god-given responsibility to save the person, our love, our marriage.

Forgive me for being blunt today, but what a load of c___!

This is not love. Neglecting your children and wife/husband for a boozing night with buddies is not love. Allowing your family to shoulder the burden of impending financial ruin is not love. Calling your spouse names and blaming her/him for everything under the sun is not love. Disappearing for days is not love. Should I even continue?
Are we all brainwashed to think that checking a "married" box on paperwork makes us victims for life? Makes us slaves to the reality and decisions of our "loved ones" forever? If that is marriage, I want none of it. I am perfectly willing to experience bumps and bruises of a relationship, but I refuse to deal with the pathological and toxic love of addiction. I live only once--forget the vows.

guineapigjude

It only works if you're both honoring the vows!

denny57

Yep, who was standing by me all those years?

mallowcup

The vows we take are not crap. We take vows but we also hear vows. I personally think vows are broken long before we leave or have had enough. The tie that binds should be the vows that are kept to us. Who we married promised God so they didn't just fail us, they failed to keep holy vows or a civil legal aggreement. Broken vows or broken contracts.....God never asked us to stay in a marriage that makes a holy instituion appear to be a calamity.
Marriage is a beautiful thing, a vow is not just spoken but it is heard.
I believe that my marriage is my statement, it is my mandate and it needs to relfect honor and respect for the God I love and the man I devote my life to.
That's just me. If marriage becomes a blah blah blah situation and it destroys your faith in good and sacred things, I'd get out of it.

denny57

I believe marriage is a beautiful thing if both people participate in it. I will no longer devote my life to any man who won't return the same. That's just me.

prodigal

God told us to know the truth and the truth will set us free. If the truth is we are married to a manipulative, lying addict who puts his or her addiction before the role God mandated he or she play in a marriage, then I say "strike three, you're out!"

Joyce Meyer addressed this issue on her show this week when a viewer wrote in asking if she should stay with a controlling, manipulative, abusive spouse. Although Joyce did not tell her what to do in her specific situation, she counselled that we are not put here to live under such circumstances.

Cynay

Im just going to poke my nose in here for a moment and remind everyone to try giving "their" beliefs and thoughs... Keep it "I" feel, think etc

This could be a very hot topic and trigger.... I think it is a great topic and want to remind everyone to take what you want and leave the rest.... please be respectful.

newenglandgirl

If I don't take care of me, how can I live to my fullest potential?

My god would never ask me to use up my life taking care of someone who is mean to me and who devotes almost all of his energy and time on this earth to gulping alcohol and will not commit himself to getting help even though he knows his behavior is devestating everyone around him.

I believe my duty in this life is to become the best person I can be and to do good and spread love. To be a vessel for my god's love and goodness.

I have so much to share...I don't think my HP intended me to use it all up dealing with an alcoholic who refuses to get help and change.

My HP wouldn't want me to stay in a marriage where I am verbally abused and mentally jerked around every day.

My god, as I understand her, guides me to become my fullest, most loving self.

Institutions, like marriage and schools and coorporations, were created by humans, not my God.

My god holds my hand as I navigate through this world...wanting to keep me SAFE...she is by my side as I move forward towards the light...she encourages me to grow, change, and find true love.

My god would never require that I stay in a stagnent, harmful marriage just because I said that I would.

My god is a god of love and kindness, and not a god of fear, punishment, and commitment to written contracts.

Astro

I vomited those words at my ex in my first few days of sobriety- "But, but, but, you vowed that in sickness and in health, for richer for poorer, TIL DEATH DO US PART"!!
If I remember correctly she laughed in my face.

Nobody should have to put up with that much sickness. Thank you for posting this an'ka. The final paragraph in your post described me to a T while I was lost in my disease.

denny57

I think marriage is a beautiful thing if both people participate in it. I will no longer devote my life to any man who won't return the same. That's just me.

Sorry about that.

embraced2000

in all honesty, during the peak of my own sickness with my xah, i used the same proclamation of my marriage vows as an excuse to hang on.

when i couldn't explain my perdicament effectively to someone who was really making me question why i stayed in an abusive marriage, i would pull out the "vow" card....that would usually stop them in their tracks.

al-anon and coming to this forum has helped me look at my own motives for staying.....after all the wedding vows do say.....to honor, to cherish.

i wasn't being honored or cherished, to say the least.

best

Sure is.
You must have taken vows from someplace I have never seen before.

--"but I vowed to stand by him/her in sickness and in health"--
That is the only part of it I remember seeing before.
The other parts are crazy to continue once we know better. I tried changing others till I came to realize that isn't my job. Only God can change a stone heart. Suffering the verbal and physical abuse is a choice. With boundaries put into action, you, me or the lamp post don't need put up with such. Well ok the lamp post can't do much about it other then stand firm and take it, but we can do things about it. Boundaries do work, when we use them and hold firm to them.
I have read through the Torah and the bible. I have read parts of the koran as well. I have not seen it writen anyplace that God said we are to do the saving. He wouldn't be telling us to do things we can't do.
Can't control it.
Can't change it.
Can't stop it.
Only God can change the heart of a person. Only God can change a stone heart.
With boundaries learned, put in place and then held firm, we can do what God asks of us.
Women...respect your husbands. Respect them enough that you allow them to deal with their own mess and stop trying to save them. Their issue...their efforts should be used to fix it.
Men... Love your wife. Love her so much that you allow her to find the point she needs find so that God can change her heart.

Abuse does not need be tolerated. Boundaries in action. For some, the boundary may need be...remove yourself or them from the house. For others...it can be as simple as not replying back when a person is misbehaving.
Boundaries do work.

best

Wedding vows tell each party (husband and wife) what they should do, not what they should expect from the other.
He doesn't do this or she doesn't do that is not the reason for vows. What I do and how I do it ...me. my actions... if my wife doesn't do her part...I need look and see if boundaries are needed or that maybe "I" need correct what I am doing or not doing.
Al Anon teachings help "me" grow.
Keeping my side of the literbox clean and setting boundaries when needed, if needed helps me stay in the peace and joy that I like.
I may not always be happy but I will always have peace.

FormerDoormat

Though Richard asked me to marry him many times throughout our 24-year relationship, I always turned him down. I didn't want to commit to things I wasn't sure I could fulfill for a lifetime such keeping myself only unto him, forsaking all others, standing by him in sickness and in health, and until death do us part, not because I didn't love him, but because I take commitment seriously.

But even without taking vows and entering into a marriage contract before God, I did keep myself only unto him, I did forsake all others, I did stand by him in sickness and in health, I just didn't do it under the same roof. I did it from a safe distance away.

And though it may appear that only death could part us, I've learned it cannot. It's not vows and promises made before God that that are important. It's patience, compassion, understanding, forgiveness, and most of all love. That's what keeps two people connected for a lifetime and beyond.

Rella927

I believe when I took my vows we both did participate and death did part us.....my marriage was something I hope to have again someday in my life.

I believe that the life I had with my XA however was not something I feel I stood by as FD stated from a safe distance after allowing to live up close with the abuse. It is not also because I did not love him that I would not live with him, it was because I could not live with only one person partipating in the relationship.

Anka what you feel in your hear will allow you to make the right choice-IMHO I do not feel that it is about forgetting the vows-it is as you stated it is about "Living Once" and living for yourself and your children when the other no longer is accepting the vows that they made.

These four thingsstated by NE are perfect examples:

"My HP wouldn't want me to stay in a marriage where I am verbally abused and mentally jerked around every day. "

"Institutions, like marriage and schools and coorporations, were created by humans, not my God."

"My god would never require that I stay in a stagnent, harmful marriage just because I said that I would. "

"My god is a god of love and kindness, and not a god of fear, punishment, and commitment to written contracts."


I was able to have a healthy loving, caring, giving marriage until God had other plans for the two of us-mine is still learning that life is beautiful and I can live in it for me and be happy healthy and in good loving relationships where both parties participate! My husbands is freedom.......(he knew all this already)

((((Hugs)))) Anka

redbear

I am in a bad spot right now so i don't have any wise words and both of us feeding our anger is going to do no good. Just stay strong for yourself, i'll do the same and tomorrow it will be different because we survived.

TriciaW

I envy you girls who can just get in the car and drive away. I am so weak, and I dont even care enough about me to want anything.

So tonight I am the one sitting here drinking. Sure I know its not the answer.. but at least in a little while I'll forget the question. I need peace, if only for tonight.

Live

There isn't any problem that can't be made worse by drinking.

guineapigjude

It's ironic reading this thread. Just yesterday I had some relatives yacking at me about how foolish I was to stay with AH so long, how it would've been better for the kids if I left when they were younger, yadda yadda, all the things you don't want to hear. I know I should've just not responded,but of course I had to shoot off my big mouth! I told them I had felt that no one had forced me to marry AH or have kids, and that I'd do everything I could to make the proverbial lemonade out of lemons. But at the end of the day, he broke his vows by bringing a third entity into the marriage ~ addiction ~ therefore throwing out love, honor, respect, and fidelity to make room. No matter what mistakes in judgement I made, I did my best until there was no marriage to save. And I am completely convinced God will be waiting to shake my hand when my time comes, not berate me for my decisions to stay or to divorce, cause I did every thing with the best intentions and as best I was emotionally able, and because end the end I was the only one left in our marriage ~ AH had already "divorced" me to live miserably ever after with addiction. That shut the relatives up!
I have a really tough time with folks that judge us. Walk a mile in our shoes before you beat us up about staying or going!

denny57

Oh, I just got in and drove away alright - after 18 years!!! LOL!!!!! (((TriciaW))) - your post struck a chord with me because it was when feeling like you describe - no longer caring about me - that I took action. I hit my bottom. What are you doing for YOU?