foregoodreasons

I've posted my story here previously. My W's sister is married to an A. He is currently using and has never tried to get help to stop.

Last week my SIL informed her H that I was attending Al-Anon ... well because he is an A. I'm not sure why she thought this was the right thing to do. I asked my W not to share that info with her but I asked too late and she told her. I then asked her to ask her sister not to share that with him. Oh well. To no avail.

I'm assuming this was a bit of a wake up for him ... to hear that I knew of his alcoholism. This week he tried to not drink. And the last I heard he hadn't had a drink all week. Sounds good if one were to believe this is all it took for him and he could enter into recovery without hitting his bottom. I'm sure we all know this means very little in terms of him stopping his destructive ways. It's just a matter of time before he drinks again.

This weekend he was digging for a compliment from my SIL because he hadn't been drinking. He even said I think it's good seeing I usually drink quite a bit. Sometimes I'll finish a 12 pack on the drive home from work each day. (He usually gets just hammered on the weekends). Don't you think it's good honey?

She lets him know it is a good thing that he can go for a while without drinking. I think she is getting better because normally she'd say "I don't need you to quite drinking. I just want you to cut back on how much you drink.".

I've tried to offer help and point them (my W and SIL) to books and this site but they really aren't that interested in hearing what might help. Don't ask me why because my response won't be a pleasant one.

I'd like to offer my advice to my SIL but she isn't educated about A and I know she doesn't want to hear what I have to say. Heh, I have tried to offer advice to my W on what I believe she could tell her sister but most times I sense her body language that she just isn't interested in hearing what the RIGHT thing to do is.

Here's my dilemna, question:

What is the right thing to say to an A with low self-esteem when he looks for compliments about his quitting for a while? (I'm asking for myself because these other folks aren't interested in hearing advice like that offered here at SR).

What can I do so I don't pull my hair out because I have helpful advice but it isn't anything they want to hear?

Cynay

I have discovered that unless someone comes to me specifically for advice I should keep my thoughts to myself.

If a person is not ready or in enough pain to hear the message I will only drive them further away by trying to force it..... They say the program is by attraction not promotion. Just keep working on yourself and lead by example.... One day they may want what you have and seek your advice....

cmc

You obviously care alot about your family, but I'm not hearing that these people are asking for your advice in the first place. I learned in Alanon that my preoccupation with what others do and my wanting 'to help' are much more than a waste of my emotions, time and energy.

When I impose my opinions/advice on someone else I have assumed that I have the right to tell them how to live. Again, I learned in Alanon that I don't have that right and practically speaking, I don't give advice- especially when it's not asked for or appreciated. I can only tell someone about my experience and what works for me.

If someone I know has a problem, I realize that I can't solve it or help them solve it. What I can do is be their friend and concentrate on myself and my own recovery from codependency. By doing that- I win and also model what recovery is like. Recovery is attractive and a benefit of that is that someone else MAY just want what I have. If that happens I can point the way to a meeting and NOT become their counselor- because I am not qualified to work somebody else's program of recovery.

I hope you will give Alanon a try, going there and to open AA and NA meetings taught me alot about this disease. I am now better able to let go of what other's do and focus on the only thing I can change-myself.

foregoodreasons

Thanks for the replies.

Just so it's understood I have attended a few Al-Anon meetings. If I have time I will be going tonight again.

You're right with your advice. I guess I knew that. It's hard when one of the people involved is my W and I see that she gets a little caught up in the enabling or uneducated behavior.

We have a great relationship but to some extent I feel a conflict may come up because of our differing viewpoints on how to handle/treat the ABIL.

For instance: The last couple of years when I've been out of town my W has taken (with my permission) our kids and spent the day with the ABIL at a small fishing hole. The ABIL is always considerate in being sober when he does this so it gives me some comfort but I'm also a little concerned that the progression of the disease may make that impossible for him to continue (some day).

I've already felt quite a twinge when my W started mentioning they plan to do this again this summer. I'm a little concerned I may expose them to something that they needn't be exposed to.

What should I do? Try to make a stand that I'm opposed to her taking the kids because I'm uneasy about it? Should I just be OK with them continuing to interact with ABIL as if he's still a big part of the family. I don't want to punish him but I don't want to feel like we're ignoring the big white elephant in the room that is his alcoholism. Everything is not fine and I don't want to pretend like it is.

LaTeeDa

My crystal ball always let me down. Had to get rid of it. I don't know what people are going to do next week, much less next summer.

L

cmc

Next summer isn't here yet there's no need to stir things up unless there IS a problem.
You do have the responsibility to protect your kids and that is something to be mindful of in case he puts others in danger. This is where boundaries are required.

I'm glad you've been to a few meetings, I'm sure you have already heard the suggestion to 'try' at least six meetings.

foregoodreasons

cmc,

6 meetings ... yep I heard and am going to make that effort. It might take me a while but I've vowed to attend that many. Last time I chatted with my W she sounded like she contemplated going. In the meantime I'm taking my time reading my 2nd book "Drunks, Drugs and Debits". I read "Getting them Sober".

I've also spent a good chunk of time reading on this site. I don't post that often (probably because I don't live with an A) but I have learned a lot.

I know I should just focus on me .... that's easier said than done when I feel my W getting sucked into the behaviors of the ABIL and that I'm somehow being sucked in as well. I'm a little detached in that I hardly ever see him. We live over an hour and a half away from each other. My W spends most Saturdays at their place.

Imagine being detached like that, knowing what you know and then having to listen to the enabling behavior that my W relays to me after her weekend visits. It's all I can do to NOT tell her to just keep it to herself. She struggles watching her sister suffer, then comes to me to vent her frustration and worry. I want to comfort my W.

I wish to listen to her worries ... but then not offer advice? It feels like I'm enabling my W if I don't offer educated solutions.

The train wreck is coming. My W communicates how the rails are being damaged by the ABIL and I'm supposed to just be a listening ear, concerned only of my own happiness.

How do I detach myself from my own wife? I want to be there to comfort her but I don't want to keep beating my head against the wall when there is little being done for themselves that is helpful and they don't want to hear any options.

I suppose my answer is to state until they are ready to hear viable solutions to their problems complaints/worries/concerns/vents need to be checked at the door because it causes me discomfort. That sounds cruel ... to put my comfort ahead of theirs. Is that really the answer for me?

foregoodreasons

But next summer is here. Within the next 3 or 4 weeks they will be spending the day doing this little trip.

I suppose I could assume there IS no problem because in the past he's stayed sober according to my W. It's possible he had been drinking. My W lost her sense of smell so he could be drunk ... just not plastered, stumbling drunk.

Where do I draw a boundary? Wait until I hear he couldn't hold off drinking during the fishing trip? Then I pull the privilege? It's risky .... not a huge risk but it is risky to assume he'll be sober and in control with my kids. Granted my W is there to watch him and our children. I do trust her.

Astro

For me, getting a compliment for not drinking (Not drinking or moderate drinking is normal behavior for normal people. Imagine that.) was a green light to start drinking again. Throw the good boy a bone for behaving, I'd reward myself by going back to daily drinking again. I guess it made me feel like I'd been forgiven and could resume my usual alcoholic behavior.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but I wouldn't give any advice unless it was asked for. My ex tried many times, and all I heard was blah blah blah. Keep the focus on yourself, on being healthy and putting some sanity in your life.

denny57

I had a difficult time at first understanding that detachment was not from the person, but from the problem.

What would I do? I'd attend as many meetings as possible, making it a priority, if only for a short while. I needed a lot of help in breaking old ways of thinking and behaving. It took me quite awhile to understand "hands off, heart on." It's what worked for me.

Take care.

foregoodreasons

So detachment does apply to anything and anyone involved with the A?

So it would be wise for me to detach myself from this problem even if that means telling my W I'd rather not hear about her or her sister's frustration/anxiety regarding ABIL?

Is that what would be best? Will that behavior allow THEM to hit THEIR bottom and seek help?

That bothers me because I think my W will see it as me being rude/selfish and dismissive of her feelings. I doubt it will motivate her to seek help for herself.

If it were anyone of you and your spouse was communicating all the problems the A was exhibiting would you tell your spouse to leave you alone because you didn't want to be attached to the problem?

PS: I'm only playing devil's advocate here I'm not trying to disagree with anyone. By doing so I hope to understand what will help me best. You guys are helping and it is just a matter of time before I have an 'A-ha' moment.

Mr. Christian

Although your intentions might be good, getting involved is not really what you need to do.

The great thing is that it is not under your roof.
Thus not really a problem or concern or yours.


When things affect your home, your children then it’s your deal. I in fact would not let my children be around a drunk, that in the future you have control over.
Everything else is something you can not help with nor change.

LaTeeDa

I always get into trouble when I assume the reason someone shares their concerns with me is because they want me to fix it for them. Most of the time, people just want to be listened to. To have their feelings heard and validated, not to be fixed.

JMHO,

L

Astro

I don't really believe that anything "allows" us to hit our bottom, we hit it when we're ready. That took me 27 years. Some alcoholics never reach their bottom and the disease kills them, others reach it sooner before they create a boatload of wreckage.

What will help you best? You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't change it. Again, focus on yourself, keep attending Al-Anon meetings, let go and detach as much as possible. I know it's easier said than done, but it's the only way I can find peace in situations like this.

Cynay

I had to learn fo rmyself that the solutions I learned in theraphy and Al-anon were "my" solutions.... I may think that another would benefit from my knowledge but if they dont ask for it then my pushing it on them could very well set them off of getting help for a longer time.

If you wife is asking for a listening ear, give that to her.... Often times I find that when I try and talk/vent with my SO his reaction is to want to fix the problem... I dont want him to "fix" anything, I just need him to listen so I can work through it... Once we both understood this our relationship became much better. If her telling you about the ABI is frustrating you ... look at why, is it because you want to "fix" or find their solutions for them?

If you trust your wife why are you finding it so diffcult to let her take care of this... Im sure if her children are in danger or he is drunk she can leave with the children. Maybe show her you trust her and her judgement and take a less controling approach ??? Just a thought.

cmc

What works for us is to listen to each other's concerns and then respect what the other say, how the other feels and what the other wants/needs. Sometimes we had to compromise or 'go with' what the other wanted. There were times when his recovery was in place but mine wasn't and vice-versa.

My husband and I were not always on the same page regarding our son...or alot of other things. Although we disagreed at times, we maintained a good relationship. We've been married over 33 years and have learned to adapt to each other!

I have never had to place such a boundary on my husband- as to what I don't want to listen to or discuss. I _have_ had several friends and coworkers who would have drained the life out of me had I allowed their continual 'dumping' and negativity to continue.

One friend in particular would complain about the same issues and over many years continue to stay in the problem- to the point of putting all of her other relationships at risk. My listening to her not only brought me down to her level, but it enabled her. She would feel better after talking to me, just enough to dive right back into her situation. I finally had to cut her off for my own sanity.

The longer I am in recovery, the more I am able to put what I know into practice and it's a great feeling to have that freedom.

denny57

My old thinking got me in so much trouble. I believed exactly what you are saying - I'm sure those words came out of my mouth. I had to learn to listen, period. My solutions are not your solutions, and so on. I like the advice I got in Al-Anon. Look around and find those who have what you want. Learn how they got it. Try it for yourself. See if it works. There are ways to be supportive without giving advice, unless asked for. My "advice" today tends to be sharing from the "I." I have no idea what will motivate another to do anything - but I sure spent a huge part of my life thinking I did.

((()))

foregoodreasons

Inevitably my W will feel obligated to help her Sister dig herself out of the financial hole that her AH is creating for her. Right now he (they) are $14k in debt plus they have a lofty mortage. Together they make less than $60k a year. If he losses his job (which he will because his 2nd DUI (he drives a route for a liquor distributor) is just around the corner) she will not be able to make the montly payments on those debts. He has the typical financial issues associated with alcoholics.

That is what is frustrating. I'm not trying to 'fix' this, ultimately, for them ... I'm trying to 'fix' it for me. My W and I have worked hard and made plans for our nest egg. There's no way I'm going to be happy having to sacrifice all that to bail out an A or the W of an A who chose to sit around and do nothing.

That's what triggers me.

What's a good solution for me in this scenario?

Mr. Christian

That's an easy one.

You just say...."NO!"

Cynay

Have you spoken with your wife about this fear? If this happens to them and you do not want to give them money... dont.

Nothing frustrating in that... If you are concerned today about it, I would suggest you talk with your wife about the concern.... the two of you set boundries ... and then let it go. Your not obligated to bail them out of a financial situation. If I were the wife I would not be thrilled about giving up my nest egg either..