CE Girl

wow, can I relate to this. Imagine my surprise when I figured out I was the one who was BROKE?!?!??!?!

I can't take away how someone tells me they "feel". I can only be responsible for how I feel. If the two don't "entwine" then we agree to disagree and go on our merry way. For me, trying to get someone to see things MY way is like banging my head against the proverbial wall.

I'd rather be surfing
Or maybe fishing
A nice steak is good every once in a while


Peace

foregoodreasons

Please no need to apologize. I've been hit over the head by many a 2x4 and I realize all advice is helpful. I hope I'm not setting people off and causing them to avoid replying because I am being argumentative.

Sorry if it seems I'm refutting the advice given. I am arguing, I suppose, for arguments sake.

I'm trying to find a solution that puts me at ease.

Here's what I know despite my argumentative state:

- Pretending I know the outcome of my ABIL and SIL's situation causes me anxiety. The answer is I'm causing myself excessive grief due to my worrying about what I can't control and can't honestly predict.

- I don't know what is best for everyone and it is disrespectful to try to educate those around me especially seeing they aren't seeking my advice.

- I need to detach from the alcoholic and those that are entrenched in the games and manipulations that come with the alchoholic.

- Getting a spine and just saying NO is probably my best option. My first choice is to find a mutally enthusiastic agreement between my W and I. If we can't find that agreement than we do nothing. Meaning we don't help out her sister. This will be a huge problem for my W. She will feel controlled by me despite the fact I tried to incorporate a policy of joint agreement (called POJA in marriagebuilders world). Yes, I realize I'm trying to do an end around on that issue by trying to work with others besides my W.

- I don't believe in Let Go, Let God. Sorry it is not a belief I have. I believe positive things can happen but those happen because one sets themselves up for such conditions (e.g. Being a happy, healthy individual will create all kinds of positive experiences, open doors, attract others to you which creates more positive experiences, etc.) There is no such thing as luck, there are no accidents and there are no victims. I like to call it positive energy.

Still here is my argumentative side still pondering the real reasons why some of this is an issue:

- Despite the fact I'm contemplating offering advice (providing information) I am in no way expectant that they will follow the advice and/or seek to clarify what that information means. I merely wanted to provide a means for my W and SIL to get some important info if they decided they wanted to. I wouldn't be telling her what she needs to do but only relay the info that I've heard others say is helpful.

They (W and SIL) don't attend Al-Anon because they are uncomfortable airing their dirty laundry and the meeting times are a huge inconvenience or impossible for them and they don't read about Alcoholism because "it won't get him to quit drinking." Those are their reasons. Which are valid.

This means they have no access or outlet for the issues that surround them and the alcoholism.

So is there any harm in asking my SIL if she'd like me to share what I've learned? Is there anything wrong with offering my services? If she can't get to a meeting and doesn't have time to read what might be helpful couldn't I offer to communicate what I know?

If they tell me they (SIL in particular) aren't interested in hearing what I have to say I'll kindly back out. I haven't asked my SIL this question as of yet because my W intially has asked me to butt out of it. I haven't heard what my SIL's take is on it. I suppose I could assume she doesn't seeing she knows what I've been doing yet hasn't approached me about it. Maybe out of fear of what may be suggested she do or maybe out of feeling hopeless ... I don't know why.

During some of our conversations my W has asked me a couple of times to explain what I've heard and read. I assume she's passed it on to the SIL. I do know I would have to have my W's blessings before I offered my services to her sister.

All the while I'm doing that I will continue the journey I started several years ago. I will continue to be introspective and contemplate the reasons why I have issues / conflicts / anxieties / etc. I will continue to work on myself, working to control the one person I can control ... myself.

denny57

FGR, I don't think you're being argumentative - I see your point(s).

Today, if someone asks me to "butt out," I do. I get to define what that means (i.e. not handing over my half of the money), not the other person.

I believe you'll work this out. FWIW, I don't believe let go, let god means sit back and wait for everything to take care of itself. I believe in being proactive on my own behalf. To me, it means hands off other people's problems - problems they can solve themselves and choices they can make themselves. It was very difficult for me to learn to stop enmeshing myself in others' lives. It was all I knew.

((()))

Cynay

Just a side take but earlier you made a statement that caught my attention. Are you looking for a wepon to use when the argument comes up..... You do this and if/when it happens you say ... "you did not take my advise or listen, I dont feel the need to help you today.... if you had only" To me that is a wepon and a way to later justify my actions. What is your motive?

foregoodreasons

Good question Cynay.

The word weapon sounds a little loaded to me. Of course that my just be because I'm trying to defend myself.

I do struggle with knowing my W may resent me and feels I'm a Taker especially when I think of myself as a Giver. Others define me as an Over-Giver and state that behavior is what causes me lots of problems.

I suppose I was looking for something that would help my W see the need for me to say NO if it ever comes down to having to help her sister/BIL financially. Something above me just wanting what I want. Maybe not a weapon but a mechanism of validity for me and my stance. Maybe a little bit of tough love too.

Although, it's a bad point of validity because even if she was taking precautions to protect herself I still wouldn't want to give up what we have so she can keep what she has.

It sucks that we do fairly well financially and they have very little and have alcoholism making matters even worse for them. I know her sister would not want anyone to have to bail her out.

I know I'm going to be having a conversation fairly soon with my W to make sure we are on the same page in terms of what to do should they need a lot of help. I didn't speak up at that time and say that I emphatically wouldn't agree to helping out her sister should she need it.

Yes, this statement is also an end around what should be done. I don't agree with helping them. I should just state it that way to her so there are no surprises and no misgivings why I don't want to help. "I want to keep what I feel is ours". We've made intelligent decisions in planning for our future and I hate to see that jeopardized.

Interestingly enough we recently had an encounter that impacts that financial future. My W and SIL needed a new horse trailer. My W is using some investment money to pay for it. My SIL can't afford to help at all ... they use SIL's truck to haul the horses. My SIL wanted my W to spend 4 to 5 grand more than what I was told they needed to purchase this trailer. When my W told her I wasn't willing to spend that much her sister got a little torqued. That money came from an annuity my W has from an insurance settlement (she was in a car accident) and my SIL believes the money is my W's but my W has agreed that that money is a part of our investments and our future. Her sister said "I can't believe you listen to what he says. It's your money you should be able to spend it how you want to.". My W told her why my input and feelings are important and told her she wouldn't spend it if I thought it was a bad idea. Fortunately the SIL was willing to listen to the advice of our financial planner. He recommended not spending that much. The snake would start to eat its tail (1 car payment comes out of those funds).

But that was just a trailer. My W said if it came down to her sister losing her farm or us helping her out she'd opt to help her out.

I feel more justified in saying no to my W when I can point to the fact that her sister did nothing to protect her assets. I almost feel like I need that kind of backing in order to be able to stand my ground. I have a hard time saying NO to my W on certain things. Hence we have 3 children not 2. I do want her to be happy. I just struggle between what she wants and what I want. Sometimes it's hard to find the give and take in certain situations. I just about drive myself nuts trying to decide what is best.

Cynay

Have you ever considered CoDA meetings???? I think they are amazing and highly suggest them.

Ok... lets say you feel strongly about not giving the money and she still decides to give her sister the money??? What is the conquence to your boundry?

If finances and how it is spent is always an issue for the two of you, have you considered seperating the finances ... she can spend her anyway she want and you can keep what you work so hard for?

Personally, that is not how I would want my marriage.... but at the same time I would refuse to keep having the same arguement over and over without steps to correct the issue.

foregoodreasons

CoDA meetings: No I haven't. I would probably rehire my Life Coach if I felt I needed more help. She was a huge help to me in other areas of my life.

If I said there is no way I'd be happy if she did my W would not give her sister the money. We do try to work together as a team. We want each other to be happy with any serious decisions. Instead I would probably have to deal with her passive-agressive resentment until she got over it.

We won't separate our finances. We're in this together even if it means we have a disagreement about money. Everything I have that I work so hard for goes out the door for bills, mortgage, recreation, etc. Her money is what we're using for future plans (retirement, kid's educations, kid's trust funds, etc.).

It isn't that we're arguing but more that we have these situations pop up where we required to work and negotiate together to find the best solution and the solution isn't one where we readily agree on what to do. Sorry if you weren't implying that we were sparring over these sichs. My W has said to me "You're right. Your decisions do make the most logical sense and do protect us from future risk. But I still feel .....".

I can't compete with her feelings. They only make my logical stance sound insensitive and/or dismissing of how she feels.

I have been working hard and have come a long ways at making my W stand on her own ... owning her feelings. I've improved some in the areas of taking a stand when disagreements arise. I know I don't always take the healthiest path but I do have to live with my W and I don't want her to think I'm becoming a bull-headed mule.

Cynay

My first sponsor was also a life coach.... I was attending Al-anon then....

Today I attend one Al-anon meeting and one CoDA meeting.

Al-anon teaches me to live life happily, regardless of if Im living with an alcoholic or not, Very focused on me... my part etc...but not so much relationships with others ...... CoDA teaches me not only why I live life the way I do but how to have better relationships and changing my co-dependent behavior.

denny57

Maybe a talk with your life coach about rationalizations would help. I was the queen of it. When I started putting them on paper, I saw the contradictions, making it very hard to deny I needed help.

foregoodreasons

Thanks for the help folks.

I'll take everything said under consideration.

Got to go for the day.

Tazman53

Well as a recovered alcoholic I would ask him what else he was planning on doing, because drinking alcohol is but a symptom of alcoholism?

As an alcoholic when I would try to stop and would be kind of successful at it (in reality I had not quit, I was just hiding it very well and drinking a bit less) my wife would tell me "Thank you for not drinking this week" I would say thanks and say to myself "Dude I put one over on her and would up my daily hidden consumtion until she called me on my drinking again.

The right thing to say to an alcoholic who has not drank in a little bit is something to the effect of "I hope you can keep it up because you are disgusting when you drink." Some thing sweet like that.