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Old 06-01-2007, 07:54 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chero View Post
I just keep thinking if he does get help and if he does do all the things I said he would have to do before I'd go back to him then am I obligated to return to the marriage?
You put into words something that I have thought about, too. It is (in a sick kind of way) easier to get on with our lives when they continue to use and refuse to seek help.

IMHO, you (and I) are under no obligation to do anything at all that we don't want to do. The drinking and drugging are only the tip of the iceberg in an abuse situation.

Abusive men do not magically become non-abusive when they get clean. Sometimes they get worse. It depends on what they are in counseling for. Is it to deal with their abuse issues or just for addiction? Do they even admit to being abusive in the first place, or is it still somehow our fault? Granted, the addiction has to be dealt with first before they could possibly deal with anything else. But the question remains-are they accepting of the fact that they are abusive or are they still trying to justify their behavior?

I have a really good book that explains the thought processes of abusers very clearly. It is called 'Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men' written by Lundy Bancroft. I got it on Amazon. It really put the whole abuse issue in perspective for me. I would encourage you to check it out.

For me, even if my ex were in recovery for his addiction, it would in no way obligate me to try yet again to make this relationship work. I will not go back to living in fear and walking on eggshells and worrying about everything I do and say. Life is too short.

(((HUGS)))
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Old 06-01-2007, 08:08 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I'm so not in a place right now to be able to see or care that he is a sick man. That can't be good!
Your right Sista, thats NOT good for your former codie self

It IS good for the NEW Chero,,,

I find when I get in a place that sees me "projecting" the outcome of something that has multiple levels, I have to put the brakes on!! Otherwise I'll drive myself NUTS with the "what ifs, if thens and maybes"

I don't question my ever changing feelings towards my A. They are what they are at that time.

What I do is ask myself how I feel. Me, inside, and yes, as I move forward what was acceptable to me for so long appears to be no longer.

Its all about learning your favorite color sweets,,,not what you'll do with the what ifs, if then and maybe's

Sista, you have come a LONG way,,,

Peace
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Old 06-01-2007, 08:43 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Cheryl

What can be...1) He fully understands all that he put you through (and himself) and reaching such a point he holds fast to his recovery and makes amends.
or
2)He understands that he needs to stop and does. Makes amends and continues his recovery for a time and slowly returns to some of his old ways.
or
3)Fakes it for a while, gets back what he wants and starts things all over again, same as before.

Marriage is a give and take even without alcohol in the mix we stll need set boundaries and learn to become one in mind and spirit. Grow together.
#1 or 2 above can be handled ok with boundaries and a commited growth of both of you. #3 would just be a repeat of the past.
Still comes down to...
His actions...over time ...will tell you what comes next. Time and actions will be what the Lord uses to guide you.
I am not perfect and when I find myself starting to become #2, I strive to change and become #1. With the smile on my wife's face as the judge... I know I have become a better husband then I ever thought was possible. He could do the same.
What it took for me to reach such a point... Jesus inside and a good recovery under my belt. My actions...Over time tell of who I now am.
His actions... Over Time... will tell you what can be and what will come next.
Continue on the path you are on till you feel the Lord shows you different and at such a point...pray and listen for His answer.
Your feelings and emotions are real and normal in the moment. You will know the answers when the time comes to make such choices. Lamp under our feet, not a beacon into the future. One day at a time.
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Old 06-01-2007, 08:50 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by best View Post
Your feelings and emotions are real and normal in the moment. You will know the answers when the time comes to make such choices. Lamp under our feet, not a beacon into the future. One day at a time.
Thanks, Best! That is some great advice and I needed the one day at a time reminder!

Originally Posted by CE Girl View Post
Its all about learning your favorite color sweets,,,not what you'll do with the what ifs, if then and maybe's
CE, I keep forgetting about my fav color! I'm going to have to schedule some time in to figure that out!
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:34 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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one day at a time, chero. blessings, k
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:45 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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I just keep thinking if he does get help and if he does do all the things I said he would have to do before I'd go back to him then am I obligated to return to the marriage?
Chero I liked the "To thine own self be true", at this point in time you do not owe him a thing, you owe your self a lot.

Waiting on him is doing nothing but letting him continue to ruin your life, get on with your recovery and let him deal with his.

Many times an A will recover and dump the very woman who they crapped all over for years who waited all that time to finally have them recover.

Why?

A lot of different reasons, depending upon where they were in thier disease when they got together with the woman. An awful lot of active alcoholics seek out a codie, some one that they view does not have enough self esteem that they feel they can crap all over and they will still take care of them. If they sober up this type of woman may be a total turn off for them, they may want a woman who is thier equal in thier eyes, that has good self esteem and they know will not tolerate thier crap if they screw up again. In other words the A has learned that in order to stay sober they need a woman that will dump them like a hot potato if they screw up and not enable them to drink again.

There are other reasons, but the above is one I heard shared in a meeting. It was not shared with pride though, it was shared with remorse because he said he knew he could not have stayed sober if he went back to her and yet he had crapped all over her, he did what was right for him and kept his sobriety #1, he said he also did what was right for her, because he did not want to put her through any more hell then he already had.
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:08 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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My thought is, even if my A gets sober and could actually become the person I fell in love with (was he even that great back then or did I have rose colored glasses on). Would I really want to take the chance of him falling off the wagon again?

I've tried this before with him, after a year? of sobriety, he was cool, about 11 years ago. He fell off, I went with him, again and again and again. Say he manages 10 years of sobriety and a decent life and falls off again, the older I get, the harder it hurts when I fall, the harder it is to pick myself up. There goes more of my life.

Are you willing to take that risk? I'm not sure I am anymore.

Just a thought. B
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:09 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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he said he knew he could not have stayed sober if he went back to her and yet he had crapped all over her, he did what was right for him and kept his sobriety #1, he said he also did what was right for her, because he did not want to put her through any more hell then he already had.
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BINGO!! I think you fianlly NAILED it Taz,,,

We codies, that is our BIGGEST fear initially as we are learning to take care of ME. That the A will recover and go on with their lives without us. In a way, your validating that, with ONE exception

DUAL RECOVERY

Thats why its so important to focus on YOURSELF. In BOTH worlds. I think the HARDEST thing is to give it over. To your HP, the spirits, the unkonwn, whatever you want to call it. You can not "predict" the future. The one with your A has so MANY variables. You'll make yourself whack-a-doo if you don't just LET IT GO!!!

Focus on you so when/if you get in a relationship with WHOEVER, you are that strong, I won't take crap person

Thanks Taz, I had a light bulb moment

Peace
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:40 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Best your post is astounding! Thank you

I simply love simple-"Lamp under our feet, not a beacon into the future. One day at a time."

Great thought!
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:46 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by CE Girl View Post
Thanks Taz, I had a light bulb moment
Wow! That makes two of us CE!

Originally Posted by Tazman53 View Post
A lot of different reasons, depending upon where they were in thier disease when they got together with the woman. An awful lot of active alcoholics seek out a codie, some one that they view does not have enough self esteem that they feel they can crap all over and they will still take care of them. If they sober up this type of woman may be a total turn off for them, they may want a woman who is thier equal in thier eyes, that has good self esteem and they know will not tolerate thier crap if they screw up again. In other words the A has learned that in order to stay sober they need a woman that will dump them like a hot potato if they screw up and not enable them to drink again.
Taz, the is the most interesting thing I heard and it makes so much sense!! I've had a moment. Wow!

Originally Posted by Bjen View Post
Would I really want to take the chance of him falling off the wagon again?
That's it Bjen! The always wondering when and if. Of course in light of Taz's spectacular point I may not be the one for him anymore.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:11 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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You are only obligated to yourself. If he gets sober and stays that way then you are not obligated to jump up and down in excitement, rushing back into the marriage. He needs to be sober for at least a year before you can really gauge his sobriety anyway.

You are precious. Don't doubt yourself my friend. Hugs.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:28 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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What's all this obligation malarky?

Did feminism never happen? Did women in the not so recent past not suffer so that we may have the vote, have the right to own property, to work, to be able to be financially independent, to be treated as equals in society? I know to whom I owe my obligation. I not some raging feminazi, but come on!!! We all deserve better than to be beholden to abusers.

For the umpteenth time, it's not always about drink. I beg of all of you to stop excusing the inexcusable with the excuse that he hit/belittled/denegrated/manipulated/conned/failed to participate equally in the partnership/whatever because he's an alcoholic. Stop being their best defender and become your own cheerleader. That's also where my obligation lies.

Who knows what will happen in a year from now? I am not the same person I was when I got into recovery. NONE of my serious ex-b/f's would be interested in who I am today. And I am not interested in them. And that's cool. I am on a better path today than I was then and they are doing their own thing. One is married to his traditionally Japanese wife, who meets his every need with barely a murmour of complaint. The other is trawling the net looking for his next victim. Me? My life ain't perfect, but at least I am working to my own, open agenda. And one day I shall meet someone who is working his own, open agenda that will fit well with mine. Until then, I will thank my lucky stars that I am out of those situations and move onwards and upwards.

Choose life, not a faux-compromise.
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:03 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Chero,

Even if he embraces recovery, he will always be an alcoholic. He will always think like an alcoholic, his abuse will not end just because he is not drinking. He has other deep rooted problems that cause many of his issues. Alcohol just magnifies them.

Fifty years ago, women had few choices, today our choices are endless, we do not have to live with an abuser, an irresponsible bully.

What about you? You never post about you, you always post about him. Who are you? Where do you want to be in five years and how are you going to get there.
You are keeping yourself in a self emposed prison with invisible bars, why?

I know the standard response...because I Love Him, I've heard that a 1000 times from a 1000 different women...where is the self love? Love yourself first, and everything else will fall into place, not necessarily with him, but with someone else who sees that you will not settle for less than total respect and devotion, because you love you, because you respect you, because you are devoted to you, your happiness and well-being.

It all begins and ends with you.
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Old 06-01-2007, 07:14 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dollydo View Post
What about you? You never post about you, you always post about him. Who are you? Where do you want to be in five years and how are you going to get there.
You are keeping yourself in a self emposed prison with invisible bars, why?
What about me? What about ME?

Some friends have been trying to come up with our list of 5 things we want to do in our lifetime. I can't come up with one thing. This has been my whole life for so long.

You know what, Dolly, I'm going to go write my 5 things. I just cannot be unhappy forever!
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:26 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Go Chero!! I'm working on that list too. I only have 3 so far!!
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