Regarding a close friend I'm concerned about.
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Join Date: May 2007
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Regarding a close friend I'm concerned about.
Hi, I don't have a problem with alcohol personally, but i am very worried about a close friend. I'll try and describe some of his 'symptoms'. Basically i wanted to see what experienced people thought about it, and what if anything, my friends and I could say to him to convince him to get some help(if you think he needs any).
My friend is 21 years old, and one of 10 in a close group of friends, all guys, who went to highschool together. I'll call him "Clyde". Ever since we first started drinking on the weekends, in about grade 10, Clyde always drank to excess. The first night we all really got into it, he drank himself stupid and nearly had to go to hospital to get his stomach pumped.
Since then, he's had his ups and downs. At one point we all sat him down and talked to him about his drinking, because it had got out of hand. He was excessively drunk every weekend and usually violent. He listenned to us and seemed to take it to heart, but then afterwards he took one of us aside and said, "If you ever say anything to me about my drinking again, I'll ******* kill you."
His drinking has since gotten worse. Before he goes out on a Saturday night he drinks by himself all day in anticipation. Sometimes he's had 7 beers by himself before we even get to the pub. When he comes straight to the pub after work or whatever, i notice his hands sometimes shake until he gets a drink into him. He is frequently ejected from any establishment he enters. Each time I've been out with him lately he has been so drunk he's basically falling asleep in the pub. He usually escapes to the pokie-room(a room full of slot machines) and sits for hours alone, slowly getting more and more drunk and pissing his money up the wall. A few weeks ago he was so drunk he was head butting the machine, and then staggering all over the dance floor crashing into everybody around him. I had to ask a bouncer to remove him, because i knew he was about to get himself beaten up.
Whenever he drinks he changes, sometimes he becomes incredibly aggressive(which is a problem, because he's 6'4" and nearly 110 kilograms) and threatens his friends. A couple of times he's hurt himself. One of these times he broke a glass and deliberately cut up his shin. He told me he did to prove that he's "Hard" and he walked around the street flaunting his wounds to anyone who looked at him cross-eyed. Another time he got drunk alone and carved his nickname into his chest with what i believe was a knife. He took photo's and showed a couple of us, but he was clearly embarrassed about it. Sometimes when he's drunk he becomes incomprehensible and speaks nonsense, other times he drops cryptic comments about his sexuality which leave us wondering if he might be gay, but won't admit it.
It's also important i think to note, that his younger brother had a similar problem. He is a recovering alcoholic at only the age of 17. 17 years old and he'll never be able to enjoy a drink again for as long he lives. He used to cut himself aswell, and once attempted suicide. It seems logical to assume somethings wrong at home, but their parents seem to be loving and gentle. My friends joke that it's because he's half irish and booze is in his blood, but being half-irish myself, i know that's a tired sterotype. Maybe its genetic?
Anyway, we're worried about him, and don't know what to say to get through to him. He could be on the same course as his brother, who nearly died. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
My friend is 21 years old, and one of 10 in a close group of friends, all guys, who went to highschool together. I'll call him "Clyde". Ever since we first started drinking on the weekends, in about grade 10, Clyde always drank to excess. The first night we all really got into it, he drank himself stupid and nearly had to go to hospital to get his stomach pumped.
Since then, he's had his ups and downs. At one point we all sat him down and talked to him about his drinking, because it had got out of hand. He was excessively drunk every weekend and usually violent. He listenned to us and seemed to take it to heart, but then afterwards he took one of us aside and said, "If you ever say anything to me about my drinking again, I'll ******* kill you."
His drinking has since gotten worse. Before he goes out on a Saturday night he drinks by himself all day in anticipation. Sometimes he's had 7 beers by himself before we even get to the pub. When he comes straight to the pub after work or whatever, i notice his hands sometimes shake until he gets a drink into him. He is frequently ejected from any establishment he enters. Each time I've been out with him lately he has been so drunk he's basically falling asleep in the pub. He usually escapes to the pokie-room(a room full of slot machines) and sits for hours alone, slowly getting more and more drunk and pissing his money up the wall. A few weeks ago he was so drunk he was head butting the machine, and then staggering all over the dance floor crashing into everybody around him. I had to ask a bouncer to remove him, because i knew he was about to get himself beaten up.
Whenever he drinks he changes, sometimes he becomes incredibly aggressive(which is a problem, because he's 6'4" and nearly 110 kilograms) and threatens his friends. A couple of times he's hurt himself. One of these times he broke a glass and deliberately cut up his shin. He told me he did to prove that he's "Hard" and he walked around the street flaunting his wounds to anyone who looked at him cross-eyed. Another time he got drunk alone and carved his nickname into his chest with what i believe was a knife. He took photo's and showed a couple of us, but he was clearly embarrassed about it. Sometimes when he's drunk he becomes incomprehensible and speaks nonsense, other times he drops cryptic comments about his sexuality which leave us wondering if he might be gay, but won't admit it.
It's also important i think to note, that his younger brother had a similar problem. He is a recovering alcoholic at only the age of 17. 17 years old and he'll never be able to enjoy a drink again for as long he lives. He used to cut himself aswell, and once attempted suicide. It seems logical to assume somethings wrong at home, but their parents seem to be loving and gentle. My friends joke that it's because he's half irish and booze is in his blood, but being half-irish myself, i know that's a tired sterotype. Maybe its genetic?
Anyway, we're worried about him, and don't know what to say to get through to him. He could be on the same course as his brother, who nearly died. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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I think you have to remember that for an alcoholic, drinking is coping. They cope by drinking. You never know what he is coping with. If he an his brother share this problem, they may both be coping with the same issues which could be sexual. From his perspective, you ganged up and attacked him because you talked about him, his drinking and his behavior.
I think if you depersonalize those conversations, they are absorbed instead of defended.
By replacing "you", You drink too much. You act like a fool when you drink. "We", are worried about "you"......Language can be accusitory, it can isolate, it can judge...
None of you really needs to be drinking so much. His drinking manifests in a offensive way but the damage to each of you is happening even if you can't see it yet. He is made up of flash and blood and so are you.
Drunk, obnoxious and violent is just as dangerous as drunk and driving, accidents happen.
I know you are thinking your drinking isn't as bad as his. This is the danger. Youcan't judge your won drinking against the worst drunk in the room. If you do that, so long as you measure your drinking as less troublesome than theirs, you think you are doing OK.
Why don't you all decide to quit? Instead of buying beers, buy some weights and all of you start working out. Girls like buff not Bud.
I think if you depersonalize those conversations, they are absorbed instead of defended.
By replacing "you", You drink too much. You act like a fool when you drink. "We", are worried about "you"......Language can be accusitory, it can isolate, it can judge...
None of you really needs to be drinking so much. His drinking manifests in a offensive way but the damage to each of you is happening even if you can't see it yet. He is made up of flash and blood and so are you.
Drunk, obnoxious and violent is just as dangerous as drunk and driving, accidents happen.
I know you are thinking your drinking isn't as bad as his. This is the danger. Youcan't judge your won drinking against the worst drunk in the room. If you do that, so long as you measure your drinking as less troublesome than theirs, you think you are doing OK.
Why don't you all decide to quit? Instead of buying beers, buy some weights and all of you start working out. Girls like buff not Bud.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
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Hey John - give this thread a day and it will get lots of answers. Many on this forum are not up overnight.
Regarding your friend - Mallowcup has some good words.
At 21, I had a drinking friend. She was beautiful, had been a cheerleader, had a voice to die for, and that "charisma" thing - the guys were just drawn to her. I can remember having the conversation with her that Mallow suggests... don't "we" drink too much? Shouldn't "we" taper down?
At 26 I met someone and because of him I decided to quit drinking. My friend never did. She lost most of her teeth being thrown through the windshield during one of her many car wrecks... sadly, the lady she hit was ALSO thrown through the glass. My friend went to jail several times, the last time for a year for possession of meth - next time, it will be prison. She was married at least 8 times... I would be surprised if she remembered all their names today. All three of her children were born with fetal alcohol syndrome (1 was removed and raised in foster care) and all 3 have already begun their drinking and drugging careers.
To this day, I do not know why I was fortunate enough to quit when I did. My friend and I shared the same path for many years.
I guess I say all this to ask you to look at your own drinking and to really take seriously the part Mallow talks about comparison.... as long as I looked toward my friend, I would NEVER be as bad as her.
But when I look back at all my other friends who went on to college and had careers, I can easily see the missed opportunities.
I wish you the best.
Regarding your friend - Mallowcup has some good words.
At 21, I had a drinking friend. She was beautiful, had been a cheerleader, had a voice to die for, and that "charisma" thing - the guys were just drawn to her. I can remember having the conversation with her that Mallow suggests... don't "we" drink too much? Shouldn't "we" taper down?
At 26 I met someone and because of him I decided to quit drinking. My friend never did. She lost most of her teeth being thrown through the windshield during one of her many car wrecks... sadly, the lady she hit was ALSO thrown through the glass. My friend went to jail several times, the last time for a year for possession of meth - next time, it will be prison. She was married at least 8 times... I would be surprised if she remembered all their names today. All three of her children were born with fetal alcohol syndrome (1 was removed and raised in foster care) and all 3 have already begun their drinking and drugging careers.
To this day, I do not know why I was fortunate enough to quit when I did. My friend and I shared the same path for many years.
I guess I say all this to ask you to look at your own drinking and to really take seriously the part Mallow talks about comparison.... as long as I looked toward my friend, I would NEVER be as bad as her.
But when I look back at all my other friends who went on to college and had careers, I can easily see the missed opportunities.
I wish you the best.
let it grow!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 15,540
hey john_acrob,
your friend is lucky to have you. i'd be honest about your concerns. it may not change the behavior, though. keep posting! and you may want to try a few alanon meetings?
blessings, k
your friend is lucky to have you. i'd be honest about your concerns. it may not change the behavior, though. keep posting! and you may want to try a few alanon meetings?
blessings, k
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Join Date: May 2007
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Mallowcup, I'm a bit confused. And honestly, no hostility is intended here...
I have never had a problem with drinking myself. I was always taught to enjoy alcohol and not abuse it. I don't enjoy being nailed or blacking out. I do however enjoy going to the pub on the weekends to see my friends... And yes, I like to drink while I'm there. But we're not binge drinkers. He is the only one of us who frequently drinks to excess. And i understand that if my friend decided to stop drinking we would have to see him under different circumstances, and i would gladly skip the pub for his benefit, but i find it a little disturbing that from my post you have started asking questions about my own drinking and that of my friends. Again, we are NOT binge drinkers. Millions of people go to the pub who aren't alcoholics. It's almost as if you're suggesting i stop drinking? I'm talking about my friend here. And that's what he is, a friend. He's not a drinking buddy, he's not a guy who i use as an excuse to get pissed, he's one of my best friends and I've known him half my life.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?
I have never had a problem with drinking myself. I was always taught to enjoy alcohol and not abuse it. I don't enjoy being nailed or blacking out. I do however enjoy going to the pub on the weekends to see my friends... And yes, I like to drink while I'm there. But we're not binge drinkers. He is the only one of us who frequently drinks to excess. And i understand that if my friend decided to stop drinking we would have to see him under different circumstances, and i would gladly skip the pub for his benefit, but i find it a little disturbing that from my post you have started asking questions about my own drinking and that of my friends. Again, we are NOT binge drinkers. Millions of people go to the pub who aren't alcoholics. It's almost as if you're suggesting i stop drinking? I'm talking about my friend here. And that's what he is, a friend. He's not a drinking buddy, he's not a guy who i use as an excuse to get pissed, he's one of my best friends and I've known him half my life.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?
Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Hi John,
In my opinion it sounds like you friend is an alcoholic and quite possibly well on the way to the later stages.
His drinking is most certainly not normal. I was never violent but I sure did get stupid at times.
It sounds like your friend means a great deal to you. Something called an intervention is sometimes successful. For an intervention to work, details must be planned out carefully and it is a must that a professional alcoholism treatment person be involved.
Be warned that such a course would be emotionally taxing for yourself and your friends and there is no guarantee of sucess. If you do care and are willing to help, you might just save his life.
There is a book "Under the influence" and the updated version "Beyond the influence", I highly reccommend.
Hope for you and your friend,
Ted
In my opinion it sounds like you friend is an alcoholic and quite possibly well on the way to the later stages.
His drinking is most certainly not normal. I was never violent but I sure did get stupid at times.
It sounds like your friend means a great deal to you. Something called an intervention is sometimes successful. For an intervention to work, details must be planned out carefully and it is a must that a professional alcoholism treatment person be involved.
Be warned that such a course would be emotionally taxing for yourself and your friends and there is no guarantee of sucess. If you do care and are willing to help, you might just save his life.
There is a book "Under the influence" and the updated version "Beyond the influence", I highly reccommend.
Hope for you and your friend,
Ted
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Welcome, john_acrob, glad you're here!
Your story really struck a nerve with me (even the physical description). I didn't know AH at 21 (I met him when he was 27) - but these are the stories I heard about him, and witnessed a few myself. I thought he just was a bit wild. I do believe sometimes people think someone so young cannot be alcoholic "yet."
Have you talked to him at all - expressed your concerns?
Keep posting - lots of great experience, strength and hope here.
((()))
p.s. a great read is "Under the Influence."
Your story really struck a nerve with me (even the physical description). I didn't know AH at 21 (I met him when he was 27) - but these are the stories I heard about him, and witnessed a few myself. I thought he just was a bit wild. I do believe sometimes people think someone so young cannot be alcoholic "yet."
Have you talked to him at all - expressed your concerns?
Keep posting - lots of great experience, strength and hope here.
((()))
p.s. a great read is "Under the Influence."
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
the first thing i would do is stop inviting him out with you if you know you'll be drinking. weekend fun does not always have to involve a pub, you can just as easily go to a movie or something that won't involve him watching everyone else drink, which gives him the impression that it's okay and acceptable to do so himself.
my ex went to her first rehab as a teen, and so did her older brother. the thought of never drinking again, when all of their friends did, was something so overwhelming and daunting, they both began drinking again. HEAVILY.
this is a crummy situation, but my advice would be to not drink around him and not give him any indication that you support his drinking, if you really don't. it should be clear to you that you shouldn't invite him to go out drinking with you, especially since he drinks all day in anticipation. do something that doesn't involve drinking every weekend, there's much more to life out there.
my ex went to her first rehab as a teen, and so did her older brother. the thought of never drinking again, when all of their friends did, was something so overwhelming and daunting, they both began drinking again. HEAVILY.
this is a crummy situation, but my advice would be to not drink around him and not give him any indication that you support his drinking, if you really don't. it should be clear to you that you shouldn't invite him to go out drinking with you, especially since he drinks all day in anticipation. do something that doesn't involve drinking every weekend, there's much more to life out there.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Well, I have a friend who has a gambling problem. I don't have a gambling problem. Wow, I noticed every time I meet up with this woman at the casino. She blows her whole check. Since I consider myself her friend, next time we all get together at the casino, should I mention something to her?
I have a friend who's overweight. I'm not overweight. As fat as she is, when we meet for coffee at the donut shop every weekend, she eats at least six donuts. I'm concerned about her weight, should I mention this the next time we met up at the donut shop?
If I'm your friend, I might consider that even though your problem isn't mine, I could respect your struggle and enjoy your company doing something other than eating donuts and gambling.
No one has a problem with alcohol by comparison to others, that's the problem.
If alcohol isn't that important, you won't miss it. There are other places to go and other ways to socialize. If this is something beyond your comfort, I'd just stop including this person, as a matter of fact, I'd go out of my way to not be any contirbuting factor between them and their particular poison. That's just me.
I have a friend who's overweight. I'm not overweight. As fat as she is, when we meet for coffee at the donut shop every weekend, she eats at least six donuts. I'm concerned about her weight, should I mention this the next time we met up at the donut shop?
If I'm your friend, I might consider that even though your problem isn't mine, I could respect your struggle and enjoy your company doing something other than eating donuts and gambling.
No one has a problem with alcohol by comparison to others, that's the problem.
If alcohol isn't that important, you won't miss it. There are other places to go and other ways to socialize. If this is something beyond your comfort, I'd just stop including this person, as a matter of fact, I'd go out of my way to not be any contirbuting factor between them and their particular poison. That's just me.
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lost in NC
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Its time to stop enabling him.You decide to no longer go out drinking or clubbing with him. Tell him you are uncomfortable with his drinking and the resulting personality change.....you like him when he is sober.
He will not want to hear this, and will be angry with you. But stick to your guns. Your friend is a loose cannon and sooner or later, something bad will happen. You do not want to be there when it happens.
Only he can stop the drinking.....and he is not ready to stop yet. Protect yourself and your interests.
He will not want to hear this, and will be angry with you. But stick to your guns. Your friend is a loose cannon and sooner or later, something bad will happen. You do not want to be there when it happens.
Only he can stop the drinking.....and he is not ready to stop yet. Protect yourself and your interests.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
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guyinNC,
That's probably the best advice, albeit the hardest to hear, I've had so far. The problem is, going out is his life. During the week he goes out on his own to "play poker" at clubs. The poker is for fun, with no real money on the table, but i know he really goes there to be amongst the drink. I noticed a symtom of alcoholism is spending time with "lower peers" simply for drinking. We're all close, but we only see each other on the weekends, and that usually involves going out to a pub. He definately will be hurt if we tell him we can't see him like this anymore, and I'm not sure if I can go through with it. I'm not even sure if it's my business to interfere. The thing that makes me angry is that his parents MUST see all this, yet they do nothing! Even with their younger 17 year old son in rehab!
That's probably the best advice, albeit the hardest to hear, I've had so far. The problem is, going out is his life. During the week he goes out on his own to "play poker" at clubs. The poker is for fun, with no real money on the table, but i know he really goes there to be amongst the drink. I noticed a symtom of alcoholism is spending time with "lower peers" simply for drinking. We're all close, but we only see each other on the weekends, and that usually involves going out to a pub. He definately will be hurt if we tell him we can't see him like this anymore, and I'm not sure if I can go through with it. I'm not even sure if it's my business to interfere. The thing that makes me angry is that his parents MUST see all this, yet they do nothing! Even with their younger 17 year old son in rehab!
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Isn't it their responsibility to help him more than his friends? Shouldn't they talk to him about it? It's not like they're in the dark. He lives at home, there's no way they don't see what's going on. He isn't a rebellious type either, if his father had strong words with him, he would listen. At least they could guide him towards a therapist or group? At least he would know that his family is concerned about his welfare.
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lost in NC
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Peers often have more influence in your life than family.
If you guys really want to help, meet as a group, without him.....decide how you feel. Then as a group, tell him you will no longer hang out with him if he is drinking. No more bars or clubs. He has a choice to make, stop drinking and get some help or....lose you guys as friends.
You guys are going to have to follow through with your threat. Besides, there comes a time in life when you must look ahead to the future. As Chef on South Park said..."there is a time and place for everything...and its called college!" LOL
If you guys really want to help, meet as a group, without him.....decide how you feel. Then as a group, tell him you will no longer hang out with him if he is drinking. No more bars or clubs. He has a choice to make, stop drinking and get some help or....lose you guys as friends.
You guys are going to have to follow through with your threat. Besides, there comes a time in life when you must look ahead to the future. As Chef on South Park said..."there is a time and place for everything...and its called college!" LOL
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
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You cant really do anything about his parents not seeing it john, actually you are assuming that they dont. They may know and may have taken a hands off approach. You say they have another son in rehab? Id bet they see it.
The only thing you can control is how much time you spend in his presence when he is intoxicated. If his being drunk affected me, I wouldnt care if he had his feelings hurt, I would stop going out with him and watching him get plowed. If it didnt really bother me (no negative effects on me) but was seemingly destructive to him, then its not really my business to tell him to stop, its my business to stop hanigng out with him, giving him a drinking buddy.
If he is an alcoholic, he will find another drinking buddy, in no time. They always do.
The only thing you can control is how much time you spend in his presence when he is intoxicated. If his being drunk affected me, I wouldnt care if he had his feelings hurt, I would stop going out with him and watching him get plowed. If it didnt really bother me (no negative effects on me) but was seemingly destructive to him, then its not really my business to tell him to stop, its my business to stop hanigng out with him, giving him a drinking buddy.
If he is an alcoholic, he will find another drinking buddy, in no time. They always do.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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I don't know, if you are going to confront me about drinking, don't have a beer in your hand. His parents may be alcoholics themselves. They may have talked to him. The relationship between a parent and child is very different than that between friends.
What his parents do or don't do really had nothing to do with what you do as a friend.
I would be most likely to listen to a friend who talked to me and not about me.
I would say hey buddy, you can get mad if you want, you mean enough to me to take that risk. Alcohol is not your friend. Let's find something else to do this weekend. You have a problem with alcohol, when and if you agree, call me. I can't watch you do this to yourself. There will vcome a day and an hour when you will call out to a true and real friend who thinks enough of you to walk the walk with you, that's me.
What his parents do or don't do really had nothing to do with what you do as a friend.
I would be most likely to listen to a friend who talked to me and not about me.
I would say hey buddy, you can get mad if you want, you mean enough to me to take that risk. Alcohol is not your friend. Let's find something else to do this weekend. You have a problem with alcohol, when and if you agree, call me. I can't watch you do this to yourself. There will vcome a day and an hour when you will call out to a true and real friend who thinks enough of you to walk the walk with you, that's me.
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If a group of my friends met and talked about me, then came over to confront me as a group with nothing to say but "quit drinking or else", I would feel so betrayed, I might be suicidal. You guys may be all he has. You haven't mentioned giving up drinking or any other alternative to drinking. That would make me feel isolated and hopeless. He's just one of the guys who is getting the ax. You have to consider his perspective, not just yours.
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Join Date: May 2007
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Mallowcup,
You're advice is both helpful and (hopefully unintentionally) unsettling. It seems like, for whatever reason, you've decided to vilify me for what i've been saying. I never said I'd "confront him" or say "quit drinking or else", i've simply been asking advice. I never once passed judgement on him, and i would like very much to see things from his perspective, i am not a selfish person. When you say, 'don't talk to him about drinking with a beer in your hand'... I can only assume you are having a crack at my own drinking? Maybe you think no one should drink at all? Fair enough. But not everybody who drinks is an alcoholic. I certainly am not. But, I would definately be prepared to stop drinking around him, and go out less. I would certainly not be giving him the axe. I would also definately be prepared to be the one who will walk the way with him. If he lets me.
You're advice is both helpful and (hopefully unintentionally) unsettling. It seems like, for whatever reason, you've decided to vilify me for what i've been saying. I never said I'd "confront him" or say "quit drinking or else", i've simply been asking advice. I never once passed judgement on him, and i would like very much to see things from his perspective, i am not a selfish person. When you say, 'don't talk to him about drinking with a beer in your hand'... I can only assume you are having a crack at my own drinking? Maybe you think no one should drink at all? Fair enough. But not everybody who drinks is an alcoholic. I certainly am not. But, I would definately be prepared to stop drinking around him, and go out less. I would certainly not be giving him the axe. I would also definately be prepared to be the one who will walk the way with him. If he lets me.
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