Detachment!

Old 05-26-2007, 05:08 PM
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Detachment!

The good news is that my daughter's graduation went wonderfully.
I am so proud of her. I'm in the process of moving her back this weekend.
She refuses to come to my mother's house. Can't say that I blame her though.
Too many toxic people. I received my application for HUD, and can start moving in the right direction now.

Since there are no Alanon meetings around here, I need support from my friends on here. Those who know me know how dysfunctional my family members are. When I woke up this morning, there were large plastic snowmen and santas in my mother's front yard. She was so upset. After calming her, I went out to get the silly decorations and found a belated Christmas gift for my mother....from my exAbf. She was upset and said that she didn't want ANYTHING from him. I had to leave and told her not to worry about it. I put the decorations in the garage and she opened the gift. When I returned, hours later, from moving my daughter, the Christmas gift was very nicely displayed on the wall. She loves it AND it cost a lot of money. Now, that is just what I need on the living room wall.....a belated Christmas gift to my mother from my exA. I reacted!!!! How do you keep from reacting???

The day before that, my uncle called me on the phone and told me not to lock the doors when we leave. He told me that I have absolutely nothing of value, including my little dog. These family members are driving me nuts. I'm making the right steps to get my own place asap.

HOW DO YOU GUYS DETACH????? What should I say or do when they start attacking me or my daughter or my dog? They have been tearing me down ever since I was a teenager and I'm sick and tired of it.

WHAT CAN I SAY TO MAKE THEM STOP ABUSING ME AND THE THINGS THAT MEAN THE MOST TO ME??????
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Old 05-26-2007, 05:13 PM
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Grace, I'm so happy you are moving in the right direction! And congratulations to your daughter. I'm glad the graduation went well.!

Snowmen on the front yard and belated Christmas gifts!?! I hope you find a house soon!

I don't have any advice about the detaching but I'm sure someone will be along soon to help with that!

Just wanted to say it was good to hear from you!
Hugs and Prayers!

(((((GRACE)))))
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:49 PM
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What stops you from telling them how you feel? I woulda told the uncle to feck off a longgg time ago, sorry but I would....Why should you have respect for them if they have none for you...

Saying that, that's not detaching, that's reacting...

I find it quite easy to detach when I know what they're saying is BS, when it's untrue, when you don't care what they say....
If he/they start, just walk out of th room, don't dignify their remarks with a response, don't sit there and take it, just stand up and leave the room.
I'm sure others will have better advice....
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Old 05-26-2007, 07:46 PM
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Hey Grace,

I came to your thread first thing after I Posted on my own. The one I can't figure out is WHY I CARE what these CRAZY bastards, (yes, I said bastards twice) are THINKING!!!

Are we the only SANE ones out there?!?!?! Ok, I have considered, I might be the crazy one

For letting their DYSFUNCTION affect me!!

I hope you don't mind, but I giggles at your post.

THats just freakin NUTS!!!

And to come home and find the belated gift on the wall?

WHAT?!?!?!?!

Your not nuts sweetie, and NEITHER am I.

I can tell you, detachments not easy when your questioning your own sanity

I'm glad you getting the space you deserve

AND you have the added satisfaction of some semblance on "normalcy" for your daughter. That is a direct result of YOUR influence

Hmmmmm,,maybe not as NUTS as the rest of em,,,

Ya think?!?!?

Peace
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Old 05-27-2007, 03:25 AM
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Hi Grace, I believe that detaching is critical to our own self care and self healing. I also believe that I must set boundaries with my toxic family members and most importantly consequences. Actions speak louder than words. I can't respect myself otherwise. I also find that when people say or do things that bother me I try this... Mary when you said (fill in the blank) it made me feel (fill in the blank) This opens up the conversation, then if goes in a negative way, I will say, Mary if you continue to (fill in the blank) I will (fill in the blank). This is the way I set boundaries and consequences, not threats. I also make sure that I carry thru on the consequences. This is where the detachment comes in. Not sure if you have read this but maybe this will help (it's a bit of a long read but I believe worthwhile):

What is detachment?
Detachment is the:

Ability to allow people, places, or things the freedom to be
themselves.

Holding back from the need to rescue, save, or fix another person
from being sick, dysfunctional, or irrational.

Giving another person "the space'' to be him or herself.

Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with
people.

Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person,
place, or thing.

Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone
whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your
emotional outlook on life.

Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you
have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of
you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and
independence.

Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see
another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel
responsible for their failure or faltering.

Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern, and caring
without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, or
controlling.

Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective
and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the
uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.

Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as
not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on
beyond a reasonable and rational point.

Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal
responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and
not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions
lead to failure or trouble for them.

Ability to allow people to be who they "really are'' rather than who
you "want them to be.''

Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who
in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.



What are the negative effects not detaching?
If you are unable to detach from people, places, or things, then you:

Will have people, places, or things which become over-dependent on
you.

Run the risk of being manipulated to do things for people, at places,
or with things, which you do not really want to do.

Can become an obsessive ``fix it'' who needs to fix everything you
perceive to be imperfect.

Run the risk of performing tasks because of the intimidation you
experience from people, places, or things.

Will most probably become powerless in the face of the demands of the
people, places, or things whom you have given the power to control
you.

Will be blind to the reality that the people, places, or things which
control you are the uncontrollables and unchangeables you need to let
go of if you are to become a fully healthy, coping individual.

Will be easily influenced by the perception of helplessness which
these people, places, or things project.

Might become caught up with your idealistic need to make everything
perfect for people, places, or things important to you even if it
means your own life becomes unhealthy.

Run the risk of becoming out of control of yourself and experience
greater low self-esteem as a result.

Will most probably put off making a decision and following through on
it, if you rationally recognize your relationship with a person,
place, or thing is unhealthy and the only recourse left is to get out
of the relationship.

Will be so driven by guilt and emotional dependence that the sickness
in the relationship will worsen.

Run the risk of losing your autonomy and independence and derive your
value or worth solely from the unhealthy relationship you continue in
with the unhealthy person, place, or thing.



How is detachment a control issue?
Detachment is a control issue because:

It is a way of de-powering the external "locus of control'' issues in
your life and a way to strengthen your internal "locus of control.''

If you are not able to detach emotionally or physically from a
person, place, or thing, then you are either profoundly under its
control or it is under your control.

The ability to "keep distance'' emotionally or physically requires
self-control and the inability to do so is a sign that you are "out
of control.''

If you are not able to detach from another person, place, or thing,
you might be powerless over this behavior which is beyond your
personal control.

You might be mesmerized, brainwashed, or psychically in a trance when
you are in the presence of someone from whom you cannot detach.

You might feel intimidated or coerced to stay deeply attached with
someone for fear of great harm to yourself or that person if you
don't remain so deeply involved.

You might be an addicted "caretaker,'' "fixer,'' or ``rescuer'' who
cannot "let go'' of a person, place or thing you believe cannot care
for itself.

You might be so manipulated by another's con, "helplessness,''
overdependency, or "hooks'' that you cannot leave them to solve their
own problems.

If you do not detach from people, places, or things, you could be so
busy trying to "control'' them that you completely divert your
attention from yourself and your own needs.

By being "selfless'' and "centered'' on other people, you are really
a controller trying to "fix'' them to meet the image of your "ideal''
for them.

Although you will still have feelings for those persons, places, and
things from which you have become detached, you will have given them
the "freedom'' to become what they will be on their own merit, power,
control, and responsibility.

It allows every person, place, or thing with which you become
involved to feel the sense of personal responsibility to become a
unique, independent, and autonomous being with no fear of retribution
or rebuke if they don't please you by what they become.



What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach?
If you should stop being involved, what will they do without you?

They need you and that is enough to justify your continued
involvement.

What if they commit suicide because of your detachment? You must stay
involved to avoid this.

You would feel so guilty if anything bad should happen to them after
you reduced your involvement with them.

They are absolutely dependent on you at this point and to back off
now would be a crime.

You need them as much as they need you.

You can't control yourself because everyday you promise
yourself "today is the day'' you will detach your feelings but you
feel driven to them and their needs.

They have so many problems, they need you.

Being detached seems so cold and aloof. You can't be that way when
you love and care for a person. It's either 100% all the way or no
way at all.

If you should let go of this relationship too soon, the other might
change to be like the fantasy or dream you want them to be.

How can being detached from them help them? It seems like you should
do more to help them.

Detachment sounds so final. It sounds so distant and non-reachable.
You could never allow yourself to have a relationship where there is
so much emotional distance between you and others. It seems so
unnatural.

You never want anybody in a relationship to be emotionally detached
from you so why would you think it a good thing to do for others?

The family that plays together stays together. It's all for one and
one for all. Never do anything without including the significant
others in your life.

If one hurts in the system, we all hurt. You do not have a good
relationship with others unless you share in their pain, hurt,
suffering, problems, and troubles.

When they are in "trouble'' how can you ignore their "pleas'' for
help? It seems cruel and inhuman.

When you see people in trouble, confused, and hurting, you must
always get involved and try to help them solve the problems.

When you meet people who are "helpless,'' you must step in to give
them assistance, advice, support, and direction.

You should never question the costs, be they material, emotional, or
physical, when another is in dire need of help.

You would rather forgo all the pleasures of this world in order to
assist others to be happy and successful.

You can never "give too much'' when it comes to providing emotional
support, comforting, and care of those whom you love and cherish.

No matter how badly your loved ones hurt and abuse you, you must
always be forgiving and continue to extend your hand in help and
support.

Tough love is a cruel, inhuman, and anti-loving philosophy of dealing
with the troubled people in our lives and you should instead love
them more when they are in trouble since "love'' is the answer to all
problems.



How to develop detachment
In order to become detached from a person, place, or thing you need
to:

First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person,
place, or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or
dependent on.

Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places, or
things which in the past you have given power to affect your
emotional well-being.

Third: "Hand over'' to your Higher Power the persons, places, and
things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot
change on your own.

Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health
by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one
person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity
you need to let go of the "need'' to fix, change, rescue, or heal
other persons, places, and things.

Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick'' and "unhealthy'' to believe that
you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal,
or rescue another person, place, or thing if they do not want to get
better nor see a need to change.

Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky
clean'' and a "role model'' of health in order for another to
recognize that there is something ``wrong'' with them that needs
changing.

Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not
blame others for the way you feel.

Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy
actions, feelings, and thinking and cease looking for the persons,
places, or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.

Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are ``sick''
behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your
relationship to persons, places, and things.

Tenth: Accept that many people, places, and things in your past and
current life are "irrational,'' "unhealthy,'' and "toxic'' influences
in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop
minimizing their negative impact in your life.

Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs
which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.

Twelfth: Practice "letting go'' of the need to correct, fix, or make
better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no
control or power to change.

.

Steps in developing detachment
Step 1: It is important to first identify those people, places,
and things in your life from which you would be best to develop
emotional detachment in order to retain your personal, physical,
emotional, and spiritual health. To do this you need to review the
following types of toxic relationships and identify in your journal
if any of the people, places, or things in your life fit any of the
following twenty categories.

Types of Toxic Relationships

( 1) You find it hard to let go of because it is addictive.

( 2) The other is emotionally unavailable to you.

( 3) Coercive, threatening, intimidating to you.

( 4) Punitive or abusive to you.

( 5) Non-productive and non-reinforcing for you.

( 6) Smothering you.

( 7) Other is overly dependent on you.

( 8) You are overly dependent on the other.

( 9) Other has the power to impact your feelings about
yourself.

(10) Relationship in which you are a chronic fixer, rescuer, or
enabler.

(11) Relationship in which your obligation and loyalty won't
allow you to let go.

(12) Other appears helpless, lost, and out of control.

(13) Other is self-destructive or suicidal.

(14) Other has an addictive disease.

(15) Relationship in which you are being manipulated and
conned.

(16) When guilt is a major motivating factor preventing your
letting go and detaching.

(17) Relationship in which you have a fantasy or dream that the
other will come around and change to be what you want.

(18) Relationship in which you and the other are competitive for
control.

(19) Relationship in which there is no forgiveness or forgetting
and all past hurts are still brought up to hurt one another.

(20) Relationship in which your needs and wants are ignored.

Step 2: Once you have identified the persons, places, and things you
have a toxic relationship with, then you need to take each one
individually and work through the following steps.

Step 3: Identify the irrational beliefs in the toxic relationship
which prevent you from becoming detached. Address these beliefs and
replace them with healthy, more rational ones.

Step 4: Identify all of the reasons why you are being hurt and your
physical, emotional, and spiritual health is being threatened by the
relationship.

Step 5: Accept and admit to yourself that the other person, place, or
thing is "sick", dysfunctional, or irrational and that no matter what
you say, do, or demand you will not be able to control or change this
reality. Accept that there is only one thing you can change in life
and that is you. All others are the unchangeables in your life.
Change your expectations that things will be better than what they
really are. Hand these people, places, or things over to your Higher
Power and let go of the need to change them.

Step 6: Work out reasons why there is no need to feel guilt over
letting go and being emotionally detached from this relationship and
free yourself from guilt as you let go of the emotional "hooks'' in
the relationship.

Step 7: Affirm yourself as being a person who "deserves'' healthy,
wholesome, health engendering relationships in your life. You are a
GOOD PERSON and deserve healthy relationships, at home, work, and in
the community.

Step 8: Gain support for yourself as you begin to let go of your
emotional enmeshment with these relationships.

Step 9: Continue to call upon your Higher Power for the strength to
continue to let go and detach.

Step 10: Continue to give no person, place, or thing the power to
affect or impact your feelings about yourself.

Step 11: Continue to detach and let go and work at self-recovery and
self-healing as this poem implies.

``Letting Go''

To ``let go'' does not mean to stop caring.

It means I can't do it for someone else.

To ``let go'' is not to cut myself off.

It's the realization I can't control another.

To ``let go'' is not to enable,

but to allow learning from natural consequences.

To ``let go'' is to admit powerlessness

which means the outcome is not in my hands.

To ``let go'' is not to try to change or blame another.

It's to make the most of myself.

To ``let go'' is not to care for, but to care about.

To ``let go'' is not to fix, but to be supportive.

To ``let go'' is not to judge,

but to allow another to be a human being.

To ``let go'' is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes,

but to allow others to affect their own destinies.

To ``let go'' is not to be protective.

It's to permit another to face reality.

To ``let go'' is not to deny, but to accept.

To ``let go'' is not to nag, scold, or argue,

but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.

To ``let go'' is not to criticize and regulate anybody,

but to try to become what I dream I can be.

To ``let go'' is not to adjust everything to my desires

but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.

To ``let go'' is to not regret the past,

but to grow and live for the future.

To ``let go'' is to fear less and LOVE MYSELF MORE.

Step 12: If you still have problems detaching, then return to Step 1
and begin all over again.
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Old 05-27-2007, 03:38 AM
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I know that I'm being repetitive. It's the same old crap....every day....same people.
Being back home, at 50 years young, with my mother, has opened up some old wounds. Not as much from my mother, but from the others who were abusive when I was young. Mainly, it was my uncle. My dad was out of the picture, and my uncle was very much in it. He always told me that I was a failure; couldn't keep a boyfriend; couldn't keep a job. I heard NOTHING but negativity from this man my entire life. He is my mother's only brother and if I told him what I would like to.....my mother would have a fit. He has had a terrible impact on his own children. They are ALL alcoholic and socially ********. I love him and I feel compassion for him, because I know that he must have his own pain to deal with. I just wish that he wouldn't take his sadness out on the people who care for him.

I guess I should be relieved that my daughter doesn't want to be here.
I don't either!!!!
I was upset this weekend anyhow because NO ONE from my family offered to help my daughter move either. She had to ask her roommate's parents. That upsets me!!! They treat me like sh*t, but I will not tolerate them treating my daughter that way. There are 3 trucks in my family and we had to ask someone to help who lives out of town. THAT IS SAD!!!!!

They seem to feed off of my misery, and that is why I'm trying to find my own place. I get very little money from disability. It's not going to be easy, but nothing is!

Thanks!
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:06 AM
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You keep expecting something from them. Daily they treat you like sh##. You say they feed off your misery. You are living in your mothers house. She hung something on her wall that you don't like. Your Uncle continues to be a daily jack a##. If you can't move right now. you can leave the house or the room. There is alot you can't do. You can put physical distance between you and them. I'm not understanding why you remain and let them take pot shots at you daily. You have been extremely clear about the problem. It is common to get caught up in talking about the problem and not the solution. Until you move, what are some solutions to this situation?
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:18 AM
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grace
we are the only ones who can have any control over our own reactions and behaviors.

we cannot change others, the things they say or do.

but we can change how we react the the crap they say and do.

i say this with kindness.....if someone is feeding off of my misery, it is because i am handing them the bag of popcorn, along with complete instructions on how to miser-ate me.

best of all to you
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:19 AM
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Thank you stilltrying! I'm going to print this out.

Thank you also, mallowcup! I am wallowing in my own self-pity. I don't mean to, but I can see that I am. I am having unrealistic expectations! I will put physical distance between myself and them. I know that you don't understand why I remain. I should have hung up on my uncle when he was attacking my worth.
Most of these people equate someone's worth by their belongings or the size of their home or the year of their car. I don't have much or monetary value, so in their eyes, that makes me not worth much.

I keep having HOPE that they'll begin to treat me better.
Unrealistic expectations!
Thanks for helping me to look at myself, mallowcup!

Grace
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:30 AM
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NOTHING, THEY ARE VERY ABUSIVE, SICK PEOPLE. NOW YOU UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ENDED UP WITH YOUR ABUSER. THEY DO THE SAME THING TO YOU.

MOVE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM OR ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.

CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOUR DAUGHTER FOR AWHILE UNTIL YOU GET A PLACE?

ALL SAID IN CARE OF YOU GRACE AS YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING WHO DOESN'T DESERVE THIS.

Earthworm




Originally Posted by Grace View Post
The good news is that my daughter's graduation went wonderfully.
I am so proud of her. I'm in the process of moving her back this weekend.
She refuses to come to my mother's house. Can't say that I blame her though.
Too many toxic people. I received my application for HUD, and can start moving in the right direction now.

Since there are no Alanon meetings around here, I need support from my friends on here. Those who know me know how dysfunctional my family members are. When I woke up this morning, there were large plastic snowmen and santas in my mother's front yard. She was so upset. After calming her, I went out to get the silly decorations and found a belated Christmas gift for my mother....from my exAbf. She was upset and said that she didn't want ANYTHING from him. I had to leave and told her not to worry about it. I put the decorations in the garage and she opened the gift. When I returned, hours later, from moving my daughter, the Christmas gift was very nicely displayed on the wall. She loves it AND it cost a lot of money. Now, that is just what I need on the living room wall.....a belated Christmas gift to my mother from my exA. I reacted!!!! How do you keep from reacting???

The day before that, my uncle called me on the phone and told me not to lock the doors when we leave. He told me that I have absolutely nothing of value, including my little dog. These family members are driving me nuts. I'm making the right steps to get my own place asap.

HOW DO YOU GUYS DETACH????? What should I say or do when they start attacking me or my daughter or my dog? They have been tearing me down ever since I was a teenager and I'm sick and tired of it.

WHAT CAN I SAY TO MAKE THEM STOP ABUSING ME AND THE THINGS THAT MEAN THE MOST TO ME??????
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:12 AM
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Hi,you say that when this gift arrived that Mom was upset,and didnt want anything from him.Then when you came back,here the gift is on her wall.You have taken this---personally---.When looked at in the simpliest terms,Mom,s who is elderly likes the gift,and put it on her wall...
Your telling yourself,what things???
It was a gift between your x and her.No more no less.
My sponsor likes to tell me,,i am the problem,,lol.Family have the right to be who they are no matter if i decide to hurt myself over it,or accept them.We all do the best that we know how to,given our lives,experiences.They are not out to hurt you.They are coming from a place inside of themselves.
My family did not change.And i learned alot.I was hurting,i needed recovery,.Through recovery i changed,changed my perceptions,of them,and actually can relate to them.Forgive them.This will set you free.
my prayers are with you.
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:37 AM
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Grace,

Your expectations of these people are completely unrealistic and off the wall. You are setting yourself up to be hurt by them plain and simple.

Even if you are on disability are you able to work at least part-time?

Earthworm
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Old 05-27-2007, 08:17 AM
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I've learnt over the years that when I have unrealistic expectations of people who cannot fulfill them, I'm my own worst enemy. When I choose to not look at anotheras actions which continue to tell me beyond a shadow of a doubt that they ar enot the person I want them to be then I am at fault not them.

Your relatives continue to show you over and over, unfalteringly who they are. You continue to walk back into and think there is something you can do or say to change them.. And there isn't plain and simple. By doing that you are always giving away your power to them. You tell them they can treat you badly. You are the only one who can change a little step at a time.

Earthworm
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:09 AM
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Hi Grace - Glad the graduation went well. I hope things start to turn around for you once you're out on your own. Your situation still sounds toxic.

Take care and try not to get too down.

((()))
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:49 AM
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Grace,

I know how hard it is to walk away from family. They are family afterall. but when there are toxic people in your life and you know it; it is time to put some distance bwtween you. At least until you can be around them and not feel hurt or angered by them. What I mean is.....well, pretty much the same to what has already been stated above, is that you cannot change these people. You know how they are and how they make you feel. The only thing that you can change is how you allow it to affect YOU.

First you have to learn to accept and love yourself. When you have your own self confidence and self-esteem issues, it greatly effects how you handle other situations in life. I understand about how if feels to be having to move back in with "Mom" after you ahve been out on your own and have had trouble... I am having to do the same here. I am trying to get out away from the relationship I have been in and on my own, but can't because of money. I am having to share a place with my mom for a short time to get on my feet and I don't like it. My mom and I don't really belong living together.....not good, but rents here are high and I am too established here to move away from this city. What I plan on is doing something to move me up in income in hopes that will secure my future for me and my daughter for me to go it alone within a couple of years.

Anyway, I guess what I am saying is .... good idea to move away from these people with your daughter, and then make a plan for yourself to move towards your own future. Instead of focusing on their problems with you and yours with them, focus on YOU. Take care of you as if they were not even there. Detachment, to me, is just going about living your own life, maybe popping in and seeing what's up with them, but not staying in it when the poision is still flowing, and go on about your day. You do have options........you just need the strength to use them.
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:04 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
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Thanks! I have to get on with my life. I know.
I really do appreciate the time that you guys take to share your wisdom and experiences with me. They are trying to pull me back down and I can't allow them. I'm just tired.
Tomorrow will be a better day!
Grace
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:20 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
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Grace, I agree with everyone, prayers and wishes for a happy and a healthy future.
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