What are your boundaries?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Perpetual, Denial
Posts: 6
What are your boundaries?
I've read the sticky threads and all I can find on this site, and I understand what they are in concept ... but I'm having a hard time putting some in words for me.
There seems to be many common challenges here, so I thought I'd ask if you might share some boundaries that you've developed to help me get started.
My AH doesn't drink every day, and he doesn't get drunk every time he drinks. But when he does get drunk (and this can be 5x/week ... or once a week ... he goes in phases) he is mean. Not physical, just verbal and emotional. We have three daughters and two are teenagers and know Dad gets drunk.
The primary problems I have when he gets drunk:
1. Want him to stay away from children - period. Challenge here is that we all work at a family business, and sometimes he will show up drunk. If I leave (and take my daughters with me), the business is understaffed and will suffer immediate financial damage. This hurts us as much as it hurts him.
2. Want him to stay away from me (but this is secondary to #1 above). But I really don't need another drunken exchange ever again with this man.
3. Want him to be sober when business is open, because he is the lead and as I said before, when the business hurts, we hurt. Challenge here: we own a restaurant with a full bar.
4. Social gatherings - we rarely go anywhere (because we own a restaurant and that is our life), but when we do socialize we tend to have the gathering at our home. I would like him to stay sober for these events (or at least limit himself to avoid drunkeness).
5. I want the right to be mad if he does these things. Meaning no sex until I feel like it.
Can anyone help me put words around these?
And then ... do I share these with him?
Thanks for any thoughts.
There seems to be many common challenges here, so I thought I'd ask if you might share some boundaries that you've developed to help me get started.
My AH doesn't drink every day, and he doesn't get drunk every time he drinks. But when he does get drunk (and this can be 5x/week ... or once a week ... he goes in phases) he is mean. Not physical, just verbal and emotional. We have three daughters and two are teenagers and know Dad gets drunk.
The primary problems I have when he gets drunk:
1. Want him to stay away from children - period. Challenge here is that we all work at a family business, and sometimes he will show up drunk. If I leave (and take my daughters with me), the business is understaffed and will suffer immediate financial damage. This hurts us as much as it hurts him.
2. Want him to stay away from me (but this is secondary to #1 above). But I really don't need another drunken exchange ever again with this man.
3. Want him to be sober when business is open, because he is the lead and as I said before, when the business hurts, we hurt. Challenge here: we own a restaurant with a full bar.
4. Social gatherings - we rarely go anywhere (because we own a restaurant and that is our life), but when we do socialize we tend to have the gathering at our home. I would like him to stay sober for these events (or at least limit himself to avoid drunkeness).
5. I want the right to be mad if he does these things. Meaning no sex until I feel like it.
Can anyone help me put words around these?
And then ... do I share these with him?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Last edited by VVV; 05-11-2007 at 06:16 AM. Reason: not done yet!
A work in progress....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
Posts: 1,018
Hi VVV,
Welcome to SR; sorry you have a reason to be here but you have come to a very wonderful place to find support for yourself.
I think that you already put your boundaries into words very well. You said what you want, and you did not say it critically or in anger, just very factually and quite sensibly. You absolutely do share your boundaries with him, but before you do you need to really think through and be comfortable with the next step in the process.
The next step is that you have to decide what the consequences for his breaking these boundaries will be. It has to be something you are willing to do, and something that you can live with doing if (sorry, but probably when) he breaks the boundaries you have set. You have to also share the consequences with him up front. If you are like me, and most spouses here, setting consequences is the easy part, carrying out those consequences takes a lot of guts and resolve.
If you lay down boundaries with him, and he breaks them, and you don't follow through on the consequences you set, then you will be back to square one and he will know that you really don't mean what you said. He will be bolder then ever. It's like threatening to discipline a small child for the same thing twenty times and never carrying it out. Think of him in those terms.
You sound like a very sensible, level-headed person to me. I have been through a very similiar situation with my exah of 25 years (just recently seperated and in the divorce process). Unfortunately, he did not respect the boundaries that I spelled out for him, most likely because he had gotten away with whatever he wanted to do for so many years and was never held accountable.
I had to leave him for my sake, and for the sake of my three boys (ages 24, 19, and 10). Trust me on this-you may not see the damage that this is doing to your daughters. It is hard to see because we get so caught up in our own pain. But I can promise you that it IS doing damage to them, and by putting up with these behaviours, you are teaching them that they don't deserve to be treated any better than what you are allowing in your own life. This is something I didn't realize until recently. I though I had protected my kids. I didn't. I exposed them to a very sick situation that hurt them deeply.
Please take care of you and of them. I am not advocating that you leave him, many folks here learn to stay with an addicted spouse, and many spouses choose recovery when they realize they have crossed the line. Mine didn't. Just realize that you may need to be ready to seperate if that is a condition that you lay down for him breaking your boundaries.
Stay strong, come here often, post and ask questions, and try to find some face to face support for yourself and for your daughters. My guess is that they are hurting much more then you realize.
((HUGS))
Welcome to SR; sorry you have a reason to be here but you have come to a very wonderful place to find support for yourself.
I think that you already put your boundaries into words very well. You said what you want, and you did not say it critically or in anger, just very factually and quite sensibly. You absolutely do share your boundaries with him, but before you do you need to really think through and be comfortable with the next step in the process.
The next step is that you have to decide what the consequences for his breaking these boundaries will be. It has to be something you are willing to do, and something that you can live with doing if (sorry, but probably when) he breaks the boundaries you have set. You have to also share the consequences with him up front. If you are like me, and most spouses here, setting consequences is the easy part, carrying out those consequences takes a lot of guts and resolve.
If you lay down boundaries with him, and he breaks them, and you don't follow through on the consequences you set, then you will be back to square one and he will know that you really don't mean what you said. He will be bolder then ever. It's like threatening to discipline a small child for the same thing twenty times and never carrying it out. Think of him in those terms.
You sound like a very sensible, level-headed person to me. I have been through a very similiar situation with my exah of 25 years (just recently seperated and in the divorce process). Unfortunately, he did not respect the boundaries that I spelled out for him, most likely because he had gotten away with whatever he wanted to do for so many years and was never held accountable.
I had to leave him for my sake, and for the sake of my three boys (ages 24, 19, and 10). Trust me on this-you may not see the damage that this is doing to your daughters. It is hard to see because we get so caught up in our own pain. But I can promise you that it IS doing damage to them, and by putting up with these behaviours, you are teaching them that they don't deserve to be treated any better than what you are allowing in your own life. This is something I didn't realize until recently. I though I had protected my kids. I didn't. I exposed them to a very sick situation that hurt them deeply.
Please take care of you and of them. I am not advocating that you leave him, many folks here learn to stay with an addicted spouse, and many spouses choose recovery when they realize they have crossed the line. Mine didn't. Just realize that you may need to be ready to seperate if that is a condition that you lay down for him breaking your boundaries.
Stay strong, come here often, post and ask questions, and try to find some face to face support for yourself and for your daughters. My guess is that they are hurting much more then you realize.
((HUGS))
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
I have a boundary which I had to enforce numerous times before AH got it through his thick skull that I meant business. When he's sober, he is distant, detached, and polite but somewhat cold. When he drinks, he becomes "loverboy" and on numerous occasions came stomping into my bedroom and tried groping and grabbing me. Each time I threw him out. I just said, "no way" and escorted him to the door. A few times when he'd start grabbing at me, I'd tell him, "Treat me that way when you're sober."
The final time he tried that stunt, I told him to leave me alone. He was actually relatively sober at that time. I guess he finally got the message because drunk or sober, he no longer so much as touches me, thank goodness!
My best method for enforcing other boundaries against him cussing at me or trying to start some sort of "drama" is to just ignore him. It didn't always work because he'd still follow me around. That stopped about a year ago. For me, ignoring him or leaving the house and getting on with my life was the key. I rarely have contact with him, and he's lost his interest in bugging me.
The final time he tried that stunt, I told him to leave me alone. He was actually relatively sober at that time. I guess he finally got the message because drunk or sober, he no longer so much as touches me, thank goodness!
My best method for enforcing other boundaries against him cussing at me or trying to start some sort of "drama" is to just ignore him. It didn't always work because he'd still follow me around. That stopped about a year ago. For me, ignoring him or leaving the house and getting on with my life was the key. I rarely have contact with him, and he's lost his interest in bugging me.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
For what it's worth, I think as long as you withhold sex because you're "mad" at him, the battle will be about that. I don't believe I can scare an alcoholic into getting sober, he has to scare himself.
From a practical standpoint, have you looked into what it would take to own and run a restaurant without him? Sounds like he's not very reliable as it is.
You wrote:
1. Want him to stay away from children - period. Challenge here is that we all work at a family business, and sometimes he will show up drunk. If I leave (and take my daughters with me), the business is understaffed and will suffer immediate financial damage. This hurts us as much as it hurts him.
What if that immediate financial damage was the consequence HE needed to feel? Suppose that was the ticket to sobriety?
Enabling can be hard to break - I know - AH and I own 2 businesses together and your fear was my fear. I did reach the point where I took the leap of faith and believed everything would be fine - I could - and I am - making it on my own.
If my friends who are adult children of alcoholics are any indication, the damage to the children in these situations is extensive and long range.
None of it is easy. There was a thread a little while back about specific examples of boundaries - don't know if that became the sticky or not - but you can do a search on it. Keep posting.
((()))
From a practical standpoint, have you looked into what it would take to own and run a restaurant without him? Sounds like he's not very reliable as it is.
You wrote:
1. Want him to stay away from children - period. Challenge here is that we all work at a family business, and sometimes he will show up drunk. If I leave (and take my daughters with me), the business is understaffed and will suffer immediate financial damage. This hurts us as much as it hurts him.
What if that immediate financial damage was the consequence HE needed to feel? Suppose that was the ticket to sobriety?
Enabling can be hard to break - I know - AH and I own 2 businesses together and your fear was my fear. I did reach the point where I took the leap of faith and believed everything would be fine - I could - and I am - making it on my own.
If my friends who are adult children of alcoholics are any indication, the damage to the children in these situations is extensive and long range.
None of it is easy. There was a thread a little while back about specific examples of boundaries - don't know if that became the sticky or not - but you can do a search on it. Keep posting.
((()))
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Great thread, VVV - I think I need to sleep on it to do it justice, though.
Boundaries were really tricky for me at first. Like you and Denny, I owned a business with my ex, which made things all the more difficult.
The more I looked at the bigger picture, I found out what was really important to me. Any boundaries were for me and me only (I have no kids - if I had, the boundaries would encompass them.)
I found it useful to phrase them as "I do/do not want X in my life. If you do X, I will.....". I had to start small and then work up to the big stuff.
The key thing is to remember that boundaries are not rules. People are free to live their lives how they wish. I am free not to share that lifestyle.
And, yes, Denny is spot on to mention the effect on the kids. Please do not underestimate the damage that having an unavailable parent can cause. And that goes for us non-drinkers too. We can get so wrapped up in their stuff that we forget how special those children are. Cherish them. That is the best defence against future problems.
I shall ponder this thread in my dreams. Till tomorrow.....
Boundaries were really tricky for me at first. Like you and Denny, I owned a business with my ex, which made things all the more difficult.
The more I looked at the bigger picture, I found out what was really important to me. Any boundaries were for me and me only (I have no kids - if I had, the boundaries would encompass them.)
I found it useful to phrase them as "I do/do not want X in my life. If you do X, I will.....". I had to start small and then work up to the big stuff.
The key thing is to remember that boundaries are not rules. People are free to live their lives how they wish. I am free not to share that lifestyle.
And, yes, Denny is spot on to mention the effect on the kids. Please do not underestimate the damage that having an unavailable parent can cause. And that goes for us non-drinkers too. We can get so wrapped up in their stuff that we forget how special those children are. Cherish them. That is the best defence against future problems.
I shall ponder this thread in my dreams. Till tomorrow.....
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