sthrnraizd

WOW, Bring out the stuff why dont ya, :-)

For me this has only been a week today since my A brokeup. I didnt see it coming. I heard all the loving words from him, I stood by the crap. Then it ended, suddenly, without notice.
My heart wasnt prepared for that reality. And it couldnt grasp the concept that my A somehow so suddenly had no emotional feelings except that of freinds??
For me, I've finally reached the place I need to have no contact. The issue is that I still love the exAbf, but he doesnt love me. So until my heart adjusts to this idea I cannt see him, because I reach out to him with emotions he will not reply to and it hurts me more. I must let the emotional contact to him DIE, before I can even think about friends? And my exAbf hasnt move towards real healing for his drinking so he is still very toxic to me. And I cannot afford to be hurt any further than he already has. I think part of it is self protection....we love the other person, but till they can learn to love us with respect we need to back off. Gain a clear perspective of things. It sucks so much!!!!!!!!!!!

SaTiT

I had to hit an emotional bottom first

I love my Gf very much. and I also care for her
and charris her, more than I 've ever had.
becuase love is a word i can just use easier.
To stad by her side day by day takes caring and charrishing her.

It just not totally intoxicating all the time...i had to seperate
my codi habits for the love of my GF.
i love myself first and have realtionship with my HP first.
I'm my own person or being. i allow my GF to be herself too.

here's what I'm saying...the love between my Gf and I.
I'm in love with her...but I'm not emmeshing with her

denny57

Well, I'm no tin man and I went no contact. :-)

I think the idea I will do something when "I'm ready" only works in hindsight. I can look back now and see I did things theoretically when I was "ready" - in other words I became aware and acted on it. I might otherwise use that phrase to keep me stuck. I hope that makes sense - in other words, I don't want to walk around saying to myself, I'll do that when I'm ready. As if it will magically happen.

Since working a program of recovery, I've learned that's the thinking that got me stuck. It's hard work. It hurts. It gets me there.

I was not ready to go no contact. I did it because it was the right thing to do. Once I became aware (ok, once my therapist, our doctor, AH's therapist and my Al-Anon fellowship helped me become aware LOL), my head knew that it was right and if I waited for my heart to catch up I might still be in an intolerable situation.

No one should assume going no contact is not painful. It wasn't. Today I consider it one of the best gifts I ever gave myself. A gift that keeps giving, as I'm learning to let go of all the unhealthy relationships I've clung to. The healthy ones that remain are a great source of joy to me.

There comes a time when moving on is a good idea.

IO Storm

Cynay:

Hi sweetie.

You asked the question earlier.....

No contact and why do they chant it?

You have received good advice here, advice you have given

others before. It is so hard when it is you needing the

advice, I know. my Daddy always used to say "Follow

your heart", but he didn't know how sick I really was.

Cynay, so much I could say but I believe the best I can

give you is to try to step outside of your feelings for a

moment, and look at your situation...

How will this contact affect my relationships with...

God
Sobriety
Self
Children

As Elizabeth 1979 said....

My goal is too grow and maintain helathy relationships is all facets of my life.

Alcohol aside?

Im not getting anything from that 'friendship' Im not giving back anything and its not healthy for me.

Another thing my Daddy said...

"There are always more fish in the sea."

Hope any of this helps.

You are special to me and to many.


Love,



Sherry

embraced2000

welcome back denny!

going no contact when i was ready was certainly not a clearly made decision...for i didn't even know what it was about, really. just knew the terms and what it meant on a very kindergarten level.

it was something i did after i became more aware of my ownself....after i got a real hard education. it was never a clear moment when i stated....hey, i'm going no contact.....i've been such a difficult student in this new field of study....and many times, any progress i made was purely by accident, not by plan.

love this thread.

Cynay

You have been just perfect "for you" in your recovery Embraced..... Sometimes I think the ones that get it "easy" (if there is such a thing) forget it faster..

I know I keep repeating things I know... just know (recovery wise) is going to hurt. I just keep trying to remember "Happiness is a choice" .... I so want to be happy. I spent the first 1/2 of my life in pain and hurt and figuring out what recovery is ... I want to spend the second 1/2 of my life Happy, In love with minimal pain and living in my recovery.

Thank you every single person for your input. I did find some different views to think about..... I love that.

minnie

I found "no contact" to be vital in my recovery. Without it, I would still be unhealthily enmeshed with him, regardless of whather we were together or not. Getting that separation enabled me to see the wood for the trees and see the situation for what it really was, not how he wanted (and needed) me to see it.

He has proven to me this week why there will be no more contact between us, even though his words are water off a ducks back. He hasn't changed. But I have.

Tenderheart

Cynay: As I read the thread, most of the responses were about romantic relationships. I am the mother of an AS, and we are dealing with a whole other set of emotions here. My AS is what I call a "mean drunk" and his verbal abuse and manipulation has worn me to a knub. It took me along time to realize that he was using me for his whipping post and that there is no logic with an alcohlic (spend hours on the phone with him). When you're in the midst of the downward spiral (like water in a bathtub) you're constantly looking for something to stop up the drain -- something you say -- something you do -- an act of kindness -- being there for them. People outside the circumstances have all kinds of advice - they don't realize you've tried it all. At some point you wake up, stop all the madness, and realize the remedy lies within them -- not you; this is a lifestyle choice THEY have made and the problem is not yours - unless you choose to let it be yours. My husband and I are at a wonderful place in our life. We deserve some happiness. We have spent so much time involved in our AS's problems, even before they got to the stage they are in. Having no contact has returned me to sanity and peace, which I need at my age. It is also an act of love which puts the responsibility and consequences squarely on my AS. It is tough, tough love.... but it is love. When our children leave the umbrella of our care, they fall squarely under the discipline of a just God. Sometimes His hand is far more heavy handed than our own. If there is pressure exerted -- let it be by His hand.

SaTiT

To answer your question cyan...at a certain stage
Yes...I wanted nothing to do with my GF..
Becuase we were still in that crazy intoxicating cycle.

Life changes....she 's now clean and sober
I've gotten more well.

Would have any problem moving forward with , or without my GF today ?
No....
Is there a posisblity of me or her relapsing again...yes

Would all problems be eliminated if I got involve with another person ?
I don't think so.

Is everything perfect today with my GF ?
NO..., but it's better.

Did i had a problem from moving forward without her in the pass ?
of course i did...and i made those mistakes over and over again.
Becuase a relationship at that piont was a need...
So no contact was needed to break that cycle, becuase it became
very sick.

In the BB in AA..it also say..One must take a chance to love again
and not stand on the sideline, either.
For me...i rather have lost at love than not to have loved at all.

My codi book is call "love is chioce" it took me a while to relize it
or grasp it. It need to be a part of me and i need to experince
whatever it is i needed to experince.
yes...happiness is chioce today
love is a chioce today.

life is not without pain...but sufferning is an option.

We are all on different stages of our recovery.

I've also notice I'll go through growning pains in recovery.
It'll seem like I'm not working my program beucase my arss is falling off.
So i don't totally trip out as hard as i did when i was new to recovery.
I know I'm just going through growning pains. or i relize it after a while.lol

progress not perfections

minnie

And that is what it's about, in a nutshell. Thank you, Tenderheart.

Oh, and I should say - I apply the no contact principle in all sorts of areas of my life. Sometimes, I just need space to see what's really going on, godammit. People, places.......forums. :-)

denny57

I very much believe this, too. So much of my "help" was about making me feel better. Stepping back and allowing another adult the dignity to live their own life is one of the greatest loves there is.

((()))

Cynay

SaTiT -

OMG .... Now that is huge and I SO believe this..... thank you. It is also nice to hear that the two of you are working it out.... thanks

Denny -

Ouch.... Your dead on as usual. What are the motivations for keeping contact with a person when they have clearly ended the relationship. Until I have healed and could a 100% friend, my motive would be to convenience them they are a fool and dead wrong and Im better the apple pie... Yea... ego driven.

Also if they are asking for a friendship..... well I have read in guy terms that means they dont want to be with you, but they dont want to hurt your feelings either .... kiss of death is "Lets be Friends"

Hell you are ALL great in your different views.... wow!, Im learning a ton.

minnie

I had to look deep inside to understand why I would even consider having contact with someone who treated me so horrendously and with so little love, respect and dignity. After all, I don't keep in touch with that guy I was seeing for a year in school, and I barely keep in touch with a guy who I was with for 10 years because WE'VE ALL MOVED ON.

So, I had to figure out why I hadn't moved on. For me, it was because I thought I could change his opinion of me (not to mention a good old helping of the old codie rescue stuff). I wanted validation from the one person who was guaranteed not to give me it. And I wanted him to admit what he had done and express remorse for it. Little did I know then that it was never going to happen.

I got my own closure, thank you very much. I don't need him anymore.

IO Storm

The choices we make... we must accept the consequences

and learn to live with them. Sometimes they can come up

and bite you when you least expect it. My ABF and I separated

and reunited, song and song and dance. It was not until I

(you see the I there) forced my way back in. You see, he

had been forming a long desired relationship with as he

said "The woman of his dreams.." He could not take my

speeding and gambling and abandonment....She had given

him a crack in the door and he told me in unflattering terms

to stay the H--- away. What words to hear, "I've been in

love with someone else for two years."..while I was living

with him.... Also, a moving on of the "physical" type on his

part.... Yet 3 weeks before he loved me?

I wish I had taken the hint... Instead I retaliated with sex.

I relapsed for a year because of that. Guilt and more guilt,

shame and more shame. Today with clean and sober eyes

I see how "healthier "choices could have been made .

But when your heart is torn apart? It is hard. It sucks.

If I seem harsh...I don't mean to be, but I am moving

forward. I can handle the wreckage only as God leads

me to. I cannot handle the burden of ANY other person's

pain at the cost of my sanity. I was insane when I got

here, I came to believe, and now past those two critical

steps....living in the third now...daily my focus, my heart,

and my intentions at 11 months of sobriety must be on what

God wants for me, not my will..but Thine.

Thanks for letting me share.

Love,



Sherry

(Wow, I sure hate talking about the past)...

Sunflower

''Choose Life"

LGLG07

But it helps you to talk about the past IO
and it helps us to know we are not alone

minnie

Also just wanted to say that after a while I got to learn what recovery looks like. Or rather, I got attuned to what healthy people do and say, because after all, many people are healthy without having had to go through the crap we have. (And many of those proclaiming to be "in recovery" are far from healthy, but that's for another day). So, I will always know whether my ex is trying to break contact to make amends which would be a pre-condition for me respond, although he doesn't know that. Anything else is just the old game and I refused to play a long time ago.

Tazman53

May the alcoholic speak on this from the other side of the fence?

(HeeHe I will any how) LOL

Okay first I will tell you what my #1 priority in life was when I was drinking.... drinking!! Alcohol was my first love, it was always there for me when ever I wanted it, it never argued with me, it never told me I was wrong for drinking or being drunk, it never critisized me!

When I was in my final years of drinking I slowly stopped doing anything I used to do just for me or with my family, my world revolved around drinking and being pleased sexually, and to be honest if I did not get it at home I was going elsewhere, but the alcohol still came first! Every thing else was insignifigant except alcohol.

It was all about me and drinking, I lied and I manipulated who ever I needed to lie or manipulate for booze! My family did with out when it came down to a choice of buying milk or more beer! Alcohol was my one and only true love. Oh sure I told my wife and kids I loved them, because I needed them in the picture to help take care of things.

If some one who I needed in my life to allow me to drink started to threaten me in a manner that may lead to me not being able to drink I would cry, beg, lie, promise, say I loved them, I needed them..... what ever I needed to say or do to keep them enabling me to drink and not have to face the consequences of my drinking.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$

The best thing a spouse, lover, or family member can do for an alcoholic is to let the alcoholic fall on thier on sword, to lie in thier own filth.

I stopped drinking when I saw that my entire support system was going to collapse all at once! I was going to have to do everything for myself with out the help of anyone!

I was going to have to pay my own bills, I was going to have to wash my own clothes, I was going to be alone with no one to call on to help me. I was going to have to buy my own food. If I wrecked my truck I had no one to call to help me, if I lost my job there was nothing to do but live in my truck.

I had to face reality, at the point where I knew I had to deal with life and every thing it threw at me alone, I knew I had 2 choices to make:

1. Keep on drinking and lose everything and simply drink my self to death.
2. Stop drinking and learn how to face reality.
################################################## ##

The entire family of the alcoholic needs to simply leave or throw out the alcoholic, if you still love them then let them know that, but tell them that you are not going to watch them die or help them die! Tell them the only thing you will do for them is take them to detox/rehab. If you loan or give them a dime for something to eat they will buy alcohol with it. If you give them something they will sell it to get alcohol.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The families and friends of alcoholics need to watch out for their selfs and not help the alcoholic in any way, because the more you help them they longer they will drink, the sicker they will get, the more damage they will do to thier brain and organs.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

As long as an alcoholic thinks there is a chance of getting any kind of help from anyone, the longer they will drink. If the alcoholic has dirty nasty clothes and is living in his own filth the worst thing any one can do is give him a bath and clean clothes.
################################################## ##

Unless the alcoholic ask you to take them to detox/rehab the best thing you can do for him is ignore him.
################################################## ##

I am an alcoholic, I did not want to stop drinking until I saw there was absolutely nothing left for me to do but stop or die!
################################################## ##

What did I have to do to stop drinking and stay stopped?

I had to find a new love..... Sobriety! Sobriety is now my number one priority, if I make anyone or anything a higher priority then my sobriety I will drink again and lose it all!

My second love is now myself, because if I do not love myslef I can not love any one else, I can not love myself if I am drinking, as a result my sobriety is my #1 priority/love.

I have to thank my HP whom I chose to call God for all of my loves because with out my HP I could never have stopped drinking or learned to love myself.

As a result of the above now I truly love people, I love my wife and children, I no longer lie, decieve, or manipulate them or others.
################################################## ##

I guess in a nut shell what I am saying is if you love an alcoholic and they are still drinking the best thing you can do for them is to stop helping them in any way, shape, form, or fashion.
################################################## ##

If you do love an alcoholic to keep the alcoholic from destroying you and your children if they are entangled in the alcoholics disease you need to do as I did to get sober with one minor difference, instead of making sobriety your #1 priority, you need to make yourself your #1 priority and learn to love your self and not depend upon the alcoholic for love or trying to save the alcoholic from himself as your purpose in life.

The only person that can get an alcoholic sober and to stay sober is the alcoholic them selfs, not you.

Cynay

Woww...... Thanks Taz

Tell me what if the person is not an alcoholic.... or working recovery?

For a Codie it does not matter if you remove our drug of choice..... We still act out.

MsGolightly

cynay, this is a really interesting post because it's something that i struggle with... so hearing everyone else's opinion is really helping me. i haven't finished reading everyone else's responses yet but i want to get mine in there before i forget!

for me, no contact has been really hard. there are days we don't talk, and i'm fine, and there are days we do, and i'm fine. but there are also some days, where after we talk, i hurt. i want to ask questions, i want answers that i know i'm not going to get. and it hurts to have something stewing inside of me that i know there's no point in bringing out, if that makes sense.

it also is some of what jeri says. it "fixes" me for the time being. it makes me feel so great to be talking to her for a few seconds, if that's all we talk for, but then i feel like crap afterwards, most of the time. i don't know, there are days i really want to let go, so i do, but there are days i really have the hardest time and i'm not sure if letting go is really what i want.

or maybe i'm just leaving the door open for her, hoping she'll get "better" and come back to me. gosh, i don't know anymore!