Very weird question about the pain of the relationship
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Very weird question about the pain of the relationship
I have a very strange question, and I don't even know if I can ask it right. Why is it that we hurt in alcoholic relationships? I think the obvious first thought is that it's hard to see someone we love go down, but I think that's just the empathetic side of it. I want to know why it is that WE hurt. Where does the pain come from? Is it just flawed thinking, such as, having poor expectations? Is it over-involvement in another person? Is it disappointment? I think it's much, much greater than that, but I can't identify it. The only thing I can remember is something from a brain perspective and not from an emotional perspective -- I just remember that it hurt like hell. And again, that's mental and not emotional. I can't remember why the emotions hurt. Does that make any sense at all? I'm sure it doesn't, but maybe someone can get where I'm going. I'm working on the "words that might turn into a book someday," and I am telling the story of the peeing. That part was just such a huge thing for me, but I'm really struggling with my statement that it was hurtful. It was gross for sure, but what made that hurt so bad? I can't remember and I can't understand.
I hope someone gets my weirdness today.
I hope someone gets my weirdness today.
Last edited by TexasGirl; 04-16-2007 at 04:56 PM.
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Hey, TG. I think in my personal situation it was putting sooo much focus on another human being.(AH). I put so much energy in making things for us "normal" that I lost myself and began hurting. I tried so hard to change him, to take care of him, and nothing seemed to make a difference.
I did not want to give up on another human being, made myself miserable with it all.
Don't know if this makes any sense at all? ! I am just rambling.
I did not want to give up on another human being, made myself miserable with it all.
Don't know if this makes any sense at all? ! I am just rambling.
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very interesting! i've actually had to sit here for a few minutes thinking about myself and my situation.
i think i'm in lilac's boat. i've had other relationships dissolve, and believe me, i barely shed a tear. when my relationship ended with my A - i was on the verge of death. the pain was so unbearable (sometimes i still feel twinges of it) that i was really on the verge of suicide. i really, really thought the pain was killing me, and i didn't want to survive another day feeling that way anymore.
to me, it was the disappointment of it all. knowing that my ex could have "chosen" me over her relationship with a can of beer... knowing that she could have chosen my unwavering love for her over a newfound friendship she had made with another drunk. knowing that i was taken advantage of, that i was a means to an end... i showed her that she could have been more with her life, i showed her what she had to offer the world, i helped her believe in herself. and heck, a few years later, she saw that was possible and she didn't "need" me anymore. it's devastating to want someone so badly and not have them want you back... to have other priorities instead.
i gave up so much for that relationship. i gave up so much to "help" her because she told me it was what she wanted and i believed her. i worked and worked and worked and got nothing back, so when it came time to stop working, i thought there was something wrong with me. there must be a reason why she stopped loving me. there HAD to be!
the fact that she continues to destroy herself hurts me beyond belief. but at least now, i can distance myself. i've given her my piece - i told her what my boundary was, i told her i was here for support, and it's all i can do. i cry about that too... the loss of the life of someone so vibrant, so beautiful, so amazing, and the ghost who's replaced her. it's like mourning a death, it really is.
sorry for rambling
i think i'm in lilac's boat. i've had other relationships dissolve, and believe me, i barely shed a tear. when my relationship ended with my A - i was on the verge of death. the pain was so unbearable (sometimes i still feel twinges of it) that i was really on the verge of suicide. i really, really thought the pain was killing me, and i didn't want to survive another day feeling that way anymore.
to me, it was the disappointment of it all. knowing that my ex could have "chosen" me over her relationship with a can of beer... knowing that she could have chosen my unwavering love for her over a newfound friendship she had made with another drunk. knowing that i was taken advantage of, that i was a means to an end... i showed her that she could have been more with her life, i showed her what she had to offer the world, i helped her believe in herself. and heck, a few years later, she saw that was possible and she didn't "need" me anymore. it's devastating to want someone so badly and not have them want you back... to have other priorities instead.
i gave up so much for that relationship. i gave up so much to "help" her because she told me it was what she wanted and i believed her. i worked and worked and worked and got nothing back, so when it came time to stop working, i thought there was something wrong with me. there must be a reason why she stopped loving me. there HAD to be!
the fact that she continues to destroy herself hurts me beyond belief. but at least now, i can distance myself. i've given her my piece - i told her what my boundary was, i told her i was here for support, and it's all i can do. i cry about that too... the loss of the life of someone so vibrant, so beautiful, so amazing, and the ghost who's replaced her. it's like mourning a death, it really is.
sorry for rambling
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I think it is the insanity that is hard for me to believe (and I am not even talking about my own!!). How my husband of 27yrs could not "snap out" of the progressive changes in behavior (he is still very functional to the outside word;still makes six figures,etc).....I just can not fathom how and why he would rather drink than even consider getting treatment so he could be with the kids and me. He thinks we are making it up (to hurt him!). If our kids acted like he does,he'd give THEM a lecture!
arg!
Really; it breaks my heart...I kept hoping he would "see the light"....now I'm hoping that I not only see it but really believe it.
arg!
Really; it breaks my heart...I kept hoping he would "see the light"....now I'm hoping that I not only see it but really believe it.
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I'm not completely sure I understand the question, TG. But, I've been thinking about my own painful experiences. When I'm in that moment I loose all sense of understanding and logic. Afterwards, sometimes days later, I can't imagine how the moment became so hard and painful.
I wonder if it comes from expecting too much? I don't feel in my heart that's the right reason, though.
I just re-read what you wrote. I was thinking, how many illness/disease affect other people as drastically as this one affects us? If someone close to me gets cancer I don't feel the real pain that they feel. I might be sad for them and upset but I don't feel the pain. So what is it about the disease of addiction that causes those around it to come away with the scars?
Hmm...I'm going to think about this one! Thanks for the post!
I wonder if it comes from expecting too much? I don't feel in my heart that's the right reason, though.
I just re-read what you wrote. I was thinking, how many illness/disease affect other people as drastically as this one affects us? If someone close to me gets cancer I don't feel the real pain that they feel. I might be sad for them and upset but I don't feel the pain. So what is it about the disease of addiction that causes those around it to come away with the scars?
Hmm...I'm going to think about this one! Thanks for the post!
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The cool thing is that you understand what I'm asking.
ITFM, I think that a lot of it is the choice, the fact that we want them to be there for us and they choose otherwise.
But, let me ask this then. That's supposedly our "sickness" in the equation, right? That we place our opportunity to be happy on them choosing us. Okay, so if we "codies" were in a non-alcoholic relationships, would our behaviors still be problematic? Is it our character traits?
And in the alcoholic relationship, if we practiced the tools of Al-Anon with 100% perfection, would that eliminate the hurt? I guess it comes down to much of our pain are we responsible for and how much are they responsible for? Is it all just our "sickness" or is their behavior emotionally disturbing regardless, and if so, why?
I'm just really grasping to understand this pain that we experience. ITFM, I too thought I was close to death toward the end.
Again, I know this is weird, but I think you're understanding me, so I'm continuing.
ITFM, I think that a lot of it is the choice, the fact that we want them to be there for us and they choose otherwise.
But, let me ask this then. That's supposedly our "sickness" in the equation, right? That we place our opportunity to be happy on them choosing us. Okay, so if we "codies" were in a non-alcoholic relationships, would our behaviors still be problematic? Is it our character traits?
And in the alcoholic relationship, if we practiced the tools of Al-Anon with 100% perfection, would that eliminate the hurt? I guess it comes down to much of our pain are we responsible for and how much are they responsible for? Is it all just our "sickness" or is their behavior emotionally disturbing regardless, and if so, why?
I'm just really grasping to understand this pain that we experience. ITFM, I too thought I was close to death toward the end.
Again, I know this is weird, but I think you're understanding me, so I'm continuing.
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i don't think this question is weird at all! it's one of those that makes you think
i think the difference between addiction and another disease, like cancer, as chero mentioned, is that our addicts are manipulative. they know how to lie, they know how to cheat, they know how to be selfish and disrespectful. i think we've been in an abusive relationship, where someone was in control over us, and where we did our best to please them, to make them love us, to make them feel loved.
i really don't know what i'm saying anymore but as others have said, us letting go is like them letting go of their drug. we were addicted to them, to the way they treated us, to the feeling that things would get better, and letting that go is painful and difficult. gosh, i hope it's the hardest thing i'll ever have to do, because that pain is so, so unbearable.
anyway, i'm not sure we necessairly place our happiness on their shoulders, like we need them to make us happy. i think we've been sucked into a cycle of abuse in a sense, and we can't get out of it? i'm not sure where i was going with this anymore...
i think the difference between addiction and another disease, like cancer, as chero mentioned, is that our addicts are manipulative. they know how to lie, they know how to cheat, they know how to be selfish and disrespectful. i think we've been in an abusive relationship, where someone was in control over us, and where we did our best to please them, to make them love us, to make them feel loved.
i really don't know what i'm saying anymore
but as others have said, us letting go is like them letting go of their drug. we were addicted to them, to the way they treated us, to the feeling that things would get better, and letting that go is painful and difficult. gosh, i hope it's the hardest thing i'll ever have to do, because that pain is so, so unbearable. anyway, i'm not sure we necessairly place our happiness on their shoulders, like we need them to make us happy. i think we've been sucked into a cycle of abuse in a sense, and we can't get out of it? i'm not sure where i was going with this anymore...
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Well, TG, if it is just us then there are a lot of us's floatin around out there.
I'm so hesitant to say what I'm thinking because there has been a lot of debate about this subject lately and I'm not sure how I feel about it....but here goes.
I wonder if the pain for us comes from knowing they don't really have a disease we can understand, like cancer, but they have a disease that we view as something they decided to have. And not that I think anyone chooses addiction. Because I don't see how anyone would choose that.
Oh, I don't know??? It's just so hard to understand.
Okay, I'm going to stop talking and think some more.......
I'm so hesitant to say what I'm thinking because there has been a lot of debate about this subject lately and I'm not sure how I feel about it....but here goes.
I wonder if the pain for us comes from knowing they don't really have a disease we can understand, like cancer, but they have a disease that we view as something they decided to have. And not that I think anyone chooses addiction. Because I don't see how anyone would choose that.
Oh, I don't know??? It's just so hard to understand.
Okay, I'm going to stop talking and think some more.......
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I think we are all responsible for our own happiness . I think that if we arent happy with ourselves than instead of looking deep into our souls to figure out what we dont like , we instead throw ourselves into another soul , one that we may feel is slightly below us , one that needs to be fixed or saved .
so we spend all of our time trying to fix this other person , thinking in the long run we have a right to fix a person that doesnt feel they are broken and didnt ask to be fixed and how it will make us feel so good about ourselves when we accomplish this task .
then they fight us tooth & nail and in the end maybe even reject us completely .. we are hurt all along the journey because we have failed and feel defeated and didnt even realize it wasnt just 'their' happiness we were fighting for but our self worth as well .
i think the fact that we lose ourselves in them hurts us the most and thats the pain we feel when we feel like death (been there) its not for them , its for us and we dont even know it .
so we spend all of our time trying to fix this other person , thinking in the long run we have a right to fix a person that doesnt feel they are broken and didnt ask to be fixed and how it will make us feel so good about ourselves when we accomplish this task .
then they fight us tooth & nail and in the end maybe even reject us completely .. we are hurt all along the journey because we have failed and feel defeated and didnt even realize it wasnt just 'their' happiness we were fighting for but our self worth as well .
i think the fact that we lose ourselves in them hurts us the most and thats the pain we feel when we feel like death (been there) its not for them , its for us and we dont even know it .
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That's true, LG. They fight us and dadgumit we only want the best for them! 
You know, I was thinking, again, that maybe this pain is really our problem. We are trying to figure out why their addiction hurts us so much...well, maybe we should stop focusing on them and look at ourselves.
What if we made our focus us? We do loose ourselves in them, LG. I think that's where the pain comes from. Knowing we gave so much to these people and feel like we are getting so little in return.
When and how did our lives stop being about us??
You know, I was thinking, again, that maybe this pain is really our problem. We are trying to figure out why their addiction hurts us so much...well, maybe we should stop focusing on them and look at ourselves.
What if we made our focus us? We do loose ourselves in them, LG. I think that's where the pain comes from. Knowing we gave so much to these people and feel like we are getting so little in return.
When and how did our lives stop being about us??
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Originally Posted by LGLG07 
I think we are all responsible for our own happiness . I think that if we arent happy with ourselves than instead of looking deep into our souls to figure out what we dont like , we instead throw ourselves into another soul , one that we may feel is slightly below us , one that needs to be fixed or saved .
so we spend all of our time trying to fix this other person , thinking in the long run we have a right to fix a person that doesnt feel they are broken and didnt ask to be fixed and how it will make us feel so good about ourselves when we accomplish this task .
then they fight us tooth & nail and in the end maybe even reject us completely .. we are hurt all along the journey because we have failed and feel defeated and didnt even realize it wasnt just 'their' happiness we were fighting for but our self worth as well .
i think the fact that we lose ourselves in them hurts us the most and thats the pain we feel when we feel like death (been there) its not for them , its for us and we dont even know it .
so we spend all of our time trying to fix this other person , thinking in the long run we have a right to fix a person that doesnt feel they are broken and didnt ask to be fixed and how it will make us feel so good about ourselves when we accomplish this task .
then they fight us tooth & nail and in the end maybe even reject us completely .. we are hurt all along the journey because we have failed and feel defeated and didnt even realize it wasnt just 'their' happiness we were fighting for but our self worth as well .
i think the fact that we lose ourselves in them hurts us the most and thats the pain we feel when we feel like death (been there) its not for them , its for us and we dont even know it .
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Originally Posted by LGL
we instead throw ourselves into another soul , one that we may feel is slightly below us , one that needs to be fixed or saved
I'm really appreciating this discussion! It's very insightful!
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This is interesting. I am relatively new to this but my abf gets out of 11 days of rehab on Friday. I think us "codies" if that's the moniker I should go by, are giving ourselves too hard a time. The simple fact is that we are terrific at being loving humans. Many of us forgot that we are equally entitled to being loved right back, but we never have to regret the love spent on our addicts. It is never wasted. My addict knows he can't see me when he is drinking, and I think that is one of the reasons he finally went in, but he was ready, ultimately.
The pain issue is intriquing. I was married to a man for a long time. I ended the relationship but before that I was crushed by the marriage's failure. That pain was nothing compared to being betrayed by the abf by his drinking. I had this silly notion that our love could conquer all. Ha! Alcohol grabs neurotransmitters and rewires brains and removes inhibitions. Our simple loving selves have no chance. We just have to make sure most of that wonderful love is directed at ourselves first, and then those others who deserve it. We can always love our addicts, but we can certainly despise their addiction of choice and not give it any of our time.
The pain issue is intriquing. I was married to a man for a long time. I ended the relationship but before that I was crushed by the marriage's failure. That pain was nothing compared to being betrayed by the abf by his drinking. I had this silly notion that our love could conquer all. Ha! Alcohol grabs neurotransmitters and rewires brains and removes inhibitions. Our simple loving selves have no chance. We just have to make sure most of that wonderful love is directed at ourselves first, and then those others who deserve it. We can always love our addicts, but we can certainly despise their addiction of choice and not give it any of our time.
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Originally Posted by TexasGirl
Great point, Cheryl! I like how you compared it to cancer. Yes, what is it about addiction that wounds our hearts and souls? Is it just us???
My AH DID have cancer surgery.....THAT in itself IS the difference. He did what he needed to do to get better....he believed it when the doctor said he needed treatment and even if he went kicking and screaming....he did have the surgery.
With this problem he says we are "making it up" and he "doesn't have a problem so there is no reason he needs help or to quit drinking"...he can handle it! etc.,etc.etc.
There is something he can do about it (unlike some cancer patients,like my mom who died of it) he just won't. That is the frustarting and insane part...to ME!
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pain is a fact whenever you love someone and you are watching this disease kill them right infront of your eyes-then their confused brains start blaming you--they have no idea--all they want is a drink--not about you.
full of hope
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Sometimes, Sunflower, we forget it's all about the drink and not about us.
That crazy old song, Love hurts keeps going through my head right now. Is that dumb song true? Is love really supposed to hurt?
That crazy old song, Love hurts keeps going through my head right now. Is that dumb song true? Is love really supposed to hurt?
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Okay, at the risk of letting you all know I'm a dork, I'm going to tell you what I did. After I was thinking about that love hurts song I re-read the lyrics....
Sometimes when I'm alone I wonder
Is there a spell that I am under
Keeping me from seeing the real thing.
Dork, I know...but I can't help but wonder if love is supposed to hurt and make us blind and all that other stuff people sing about???
Sometimes when I'm alone I wonder
Is there a spell that I am under
Keeping me from seeing the real thing.
Dork, I know...but I can't help but wonder if love is supposed to hurt and make us blind and all that other stuff people sing about???
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