A Choice???
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
Mr C - i'm not sure what you're confident about? by reading your posts, i see nothing but ignorance and arrogance, and it's the farthest thing from a compliment i could ever give.
and secondly, what in god's name do you think gives you the right to forgive anyone? and for what?
you don't know us, you don't know sherry. don't you dare claim to have the right to forgive anyone for their drinking or their lifestyle. people work HARD to get where they are today, and to have condescending, spineless people like you make them feel like less of a human being, because they have a DISEASE, is uncalled for, and it's downright frustrating and disappointing that there are people like you in the world who think it's okay to treat other people the way you can.
i'm sorry that your ex left you. i can see what it's done to your ego.
and secondly, what in god's name do you think gives you the right to forgive anyone? and for what?
you don't know us, you don't know sherry. don't you dare claim to have the right to forgive anyone for their drinking or their lifestyle. people work HARD to get where they are today, and to have condescending, spineless people like you make them feel like less of a human being, because they have a DISEASE, is uncalled for, and it's downright frustrating and disappointing that there are people like you in the world who think it's okay to treat other people the way you can.
i'm sorry that your ex left you. i can see what it's done to your ego.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2
I am the ex, I am the alcoholic, I am the one "choosing" my path, are you kidding me??? I hate my choices, I hate my life, I hate myself, don't you think that if it were as easy as a choice that I'd long be done with this hatred?
How hurt were you by your ex?? b/c i feel like it's more than you even know or are willing to admit...
We all suffer from the same disease, the same hatred for all that we are, whether shes become aware of it yet or not, its only a matter of time. Honestly Mr. C, if you find comfort and acceptance in what you believe then I respect you, but to most its not their path. Who are you to know the mind of anyone but yourself, who are you to assume that we millions of alcoholics and addicts chose a life that would be full of disappointment, grief, embarrassment, and guilt... We aren't heartless and neither was your ex no matter how badly she hurt you... I hope one day you can heal and I hope one day you can forgive b/c it's all thats holding you back, no matter what definition or mentality you have about us alcoholics and addicts...forgiveness is what sets you free and makes you above all of it
How hurt were you by your ex?? b/c i feel like it's more than you even know or are willing to admit...
We all suffer from the same disease, the same hatred for all that we are, whether shes become aware of it yet or not, its only a matter of time. Honestly Mr. C, if you find comfort and acceptance in what you believe then I respect you, but to most its not their path. Who are you to know the mind of anyone but yourself, who are you to assume that we millions of alcoholics and addicts chose a life that would be full of disappointment, grief, embarrassment, and guilt... We aren't heartless and neither was your ex no matter how badly she hurt you... I hope one day you can heal and I hope one day you can forgive b/c it's all thats holding you back, no matter what definition or mentality you have about us alcoholics and addicts...forgiveness is what sets you free and makes you above all of it
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: OHIO
Posts: 959
InThisForMe - So then what you said when you replied to my post is that these people BELIEVED that they were diseased but the was no medical fact or base it on...correct. Again its all about CHOICES..and CONSEQUENCES.
Janit
Janit
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
i'm sorry, janit, i'm not sure what you're referring to... my brain is tired 
i believe that alcoholism is a disease. i can see how there are choices involved... to put yourself in certain situations, to be with certain people who encourage drinking... but i think the disease can also cloud the brain on what's best or what's appropriate for the time being... if i'm making any sense at all.
i'm not making excuses. alcoholics do plenty of things that i find sickening and inexcusable... but i do believe it is a disease, of the body and of the brain, and that those who are afflicted with it are unable to make "good" or correct choices... most of the time, anyway. again, all in my opinion..
i believe that alcoholism is a disease. i can see how there are choices involved... to put yourself in certain situations, to be with certain people who encourage drinking... but i think the disease can also cloud the brain on what's best or what's appropriate for the time being... if i'm making any sense at all.
i'm not making excuses. alcoholics do plenty of things that i find sickening and inexcusable... but i do believe it is a disease, of the body and of the brain, and that those who are afflicted with it are unable to make "good" or correct choices... most of the time, anyway. again, all in my opinion..
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
sorry... rambling...
i do think there are choices, i do think that after a week of sobriety, once chooses to take the path home from work that goes past the liquor store. at the same time, i don't think they always have the capability to understand that the choices they're making at that moment are the wrong ones.
i do think there are choices, i do think that after a week of sobriety, once chooses to take the path home from work that goes past the liquor store. at the same time, i don't think they always have the capability to understand that the choices they're making at that moment are the wrong ones.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: OHIO
Posts: 959
InThisForMe - I guess I just am not convinced that its a disease ..... I do however believe that after alot of consumption and use the brain is altered and may not be able to make what we would call good decisions....but then we have to discuss what we all would consider good decisions....lol And then the saga continues...now its going to another level....and do we really want to discuss what all of our ideas are on the subject of "Good Decisions"? Like it has been said over and over we all have what we believe but when push comes to shove ...its all about compassion...we are all human and deserve all the love that we can muster for one another..diseased or not...
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
i'll second that!
believing or not believing it is a disease is anyone's opinion... i'm not claiming to be an expert by any means, i was just offering my viewpoint in case anyone cared
at the end of the night, we're all human; we're all vulnerable, we're all deserving of respect and love, whether we're hurting or whether we've hurt.
believing or not believing it is a disease is anyone's opinion... i'm not claiming to be an expert by any means, i was just offering my viewpoint in case anyone cared
at the end of the night, we're all human; we're all vulnerable, we're all deserving of respect and love, whether we're hurting or whether we've hurt.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
Who are you to know the mind of anyone but yourself,
He calmly said:
"You don't even know you're own motives .... who are you to say what motivates others ? "
And, Mr C , I wish you well, and hope that you find your peace.
My ex abonded our children and ran off with a man 15 years younger than me. (I'm sure my drinking didn't help the situation at all) She isn't an alkie, but has major codie and addict traits. I forgave her, admitted my part, and I prayed that she too found peace. We're all sick in one way or another.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,351
when I started this thread it was for a different reason than it has turned into.
Some people cannot accept change
some people believe they are always right
everything is black and white to then--they are just on a different level of intelligence I assume
The most importatnt thing is to fight for more research--more treatment centers--and to EDUCATE yourself.
It IS a disease any medical professional knows this
The addictive personality and the predisposition for this disease is genetic
OPEN your minds--we dont want anything to do with research about this to be stiffled by old thinking.Its time to look ahead-as science is taking leaps and bounds trying to understand addiction and find a cure.
We should all be working towards that one goal in whatever way we can.For future generations.
Sometime older thinking needs to be updated for newer As from a new generation--don't be afraid of change.
Some people cannot accept change
some people believe they are always right
everything is black and white to then--they are just on a different level of intelligence I assume
The most importatnt thing is to fight for more research--more treatment centers--and to EDUCATE yourself.
It IS a disease any medical professional knows this
The addictive personality and the predisposition for this disease is genetic
OPEN your minds--we dont want anything to do with research about this to be stiffled by old thinking.Its time to look ahead-as science is taking leaps and bounds trying to understand addiction and find a cure.
We should all be working towards that one goal in whatever way we can.For future generations.
Sometime older thinking needs to be updated for newer As from a new generation--don't be afraid of change.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
don't be afraid of change
1. Change
2. The way things are right now
Sorry to hijack
Yes, people need to be educated. The old myths are just that. Myths. It's not a weakness. It's not a question of willpower. You don't become alcoholic by drinking for years. You don't become an alcoholic because of of emotional or social problems. An alcoholics true personality does not come out only when they drink. It's just not the "hard stuff" that gets you....
Again, I highly suggest "Under the Influence" by Milam and Ketcham. ISBN 0-553-27487-2
IO Storm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 18,436
SoCal Gal. It's OK. Obviously grandiose thinking.
SaTit: Already stated "hardly drinks".
Mr. Christian: I am forgiven for what?
And, I would like an answer. Now, this should be
interesting. At your discretion.
Love,
Sherry
SaTit: Already stated "hardly drinks".
Mr. Christian: I am forgiven for what?
And, I would like an answer. Now, this should be
interesting. At your discretion.
Love,
Sherry
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Good gosh but this is an excellent and enlightening thread...controversy does make for excellent print!
Mr. C...(sigh).... your tone does come across a tad "holier than thou". It is only by walking a mile in these moccasins do we learn empathy....and some semblance of humility And for crying out loud...I don't smoke any more sober than I did drunk. In fact, I smoke a whole lot less.
It is not surprising that someone who's profile is attached to a fictional identity of superhuman strength would reduce addiction to a matter of weakness.
You say AA gives me as an alcoholic strength....no, Spirit does.
It is incredibly egotistical of you to speak as some sort of authority on AA when you are not a bonafide member. You are not an alcoholic..nor apparently an addict of anything. It's tiresome and pompous.
Mr. C...(sigh).... your tone does come across a tad "holier than thou". It is only by walking a mile in these moccasins do we learn empathy....and some semblance of humility And for crying out loud...I don't smoke any more sober than I did drunk. In fact, I smoke a whole lot less.
It is not surprising that someone who's profile is attached to a fictional identity of superhuman strength would reduce addiction to a matter of weakness.
You say AA gives me as an alcoholic strength....no, Spirit does.
It is incredibly egotistical of you to speak as some sort of authority on AA when you are not a bonafide member. You are not an alcoholic..nor apparently an addict of anything. It's tiresome and pompous.
IO Storm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 18,436
Every Big Book sentence about step 4 offers guidance on thinking and acting to overcome the suffering of resentments. The 4th step prayer paragraph is thought by my friends as particularly important to contemplate each time we ponder a newly written description of a resentment. (Bill W) Big Book page 66 : It is appears on the path to the analysis and growth directions.
4th step prayer.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done. We avoid retaliation or argument.
Amen.
Peace to you brother.
4th step prayer.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done. We avoid retaliation or argument.
Amen.
Peace to you brother.
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
Well we all have entered this thread with the idea of what we think alcoholism is.
Since I went against the grain with generalizations I fin your personal attacks most enlightening.
Egotistical? Ignorant?
Not once did I go for the personal I went for the broad brush here .
Even a picture I put up is under attack, childish at best.
Sunflower is right...
Also not once did I question ones thoughts but I held stead fast in mine.
Yes I found my peace, but it seems by the bitter writings of some here they have yet to find…recovery.
Good luck in your quest.
Since I went against the grain with generalizations I fin your personal attacks most enlightening.
Egotistical? Ignorant?
Not once did I go for the personal I went for the broad brush here .
Even a picture I put up is under attack, childish at best.
Sunflower is right...
Also not once did I question ones thoughts but I held stead fast in mine.
Yes I found my peace, but it seems by the bitter writings of some here they have yet to find…recovery.
Good luck in your quest.
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
Originally Posted by Sunlight81 
These are emotionally charged threads. That's why they are so powerful to read. Can we disagree without being disagreeable?
Ever watch Intervention On A&E Sunday nights? They offer them a choice to go into recovery or not. Some take it, some don't.
Ever watch Intervention On A&E Sunday nights? They offer them a choice to go into recovery or not. Some take it, some don't.
Hi Sunlight, yes I have watched it. The interesting thing about that type of intervention, is that the person isn't neccessarily choosing to get clean as much as they are responding to the shock of the family, the jolt of reality, lets say. This is powerful to a least get them detoxed so that they have a chance at furthering their treatment.
Nice post, hope3
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
Originally Posted by Mr. Christian
Well we all have entered this thread with the idea of what we think alcoholism is.
Since I went against the grain with generalizations I fin your personal attacks most enlightening.
Egotistical? Ignorant?
Not once did I go for the personal I went for the broad brush here .
Even a picture I put up is under attack, childish at best.
Sunflower is right...
Also not once did I question ones thoughts but I held stead fast in mine.
Yes I found my peace, but it seems by the bitter writings of some here they have yet to find…recovery.
Good luck in your quest.
Since I went against the grain with generalizations I fin your personal attacks most enlightening.
Egotistical? Ignorant?
Not once did I go for the personal I went for the broad brush here .
Even a picture I put up is under attack, childish at best.
Sunflower is right...
Also not once did I question ones thoughts but I held stead fast in mine.
Yes I found my peace, but it seems by the bitter writings of some here they have yet to find…recovery.
Good luck in your quest.
How can you not think it not a personal attack on anyone who is alcoholic, or who is bi-polar when you said what you said?
I have peace, and I'm not attacking you, just staying steadfast to my opinion.
I think that anyone that thinks that alcoholics that have a lot of trouble stopping are just weak immoral people are ignorant to the facts of alcoholism.
Hey, I'm not personally attacking you, just stating my opinion, hope3
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
