MsGolightly

i didn't say that everyone who has a rough life turns to alcohol or drugs. you should probably reread what i've said before you jump to erroneous conclusions and treat me in a condescending manner.

i'm not claiming to know everything, no one here is. i'm incredibly open minded and i've been listening to every word you've said, even though i've disagreed with all of it.

some people - addicts of any kind, those suffering from depression, those with ADHD - have different ways of "coping" with their surroundings. an autistic child may not speak - their brain is very different from ours. an alcoholic may act in a similar manner... their brain is very different from ours. i suggest you read up on the topic. it's incredibly different, and that's a proven fact. refusing to see the truth is something i can't help you with.

no one is using me. my ex and i are no longer in contact. i have understood her manipulation for quite some time now, and i'm not making excuses for her at all. things she has done and said are unforgiveable, and i'm not wanting to excuse her behavior in any way.

i would appreciate if you learned how to speak to others without belittling them. we all have different viewpoints and opinions, and it's not necessary to attack the beliefs that are different form yours...

Mr. Christian

Oh please “IN”, I in no way was being belittling or condescending.
If I came across that way it was not my intention.
Some people seem to be a little overly sensitive and thin skinned, so I understand that also.
Others take what I say personal since it is thought provoking and might stir something inside them. But then that is what we are here for is it not.

To talk about EXPERIANCE- STRENGTH –and HOPE.

Sunlight81

These are emotionally charged threads. That's why they are so powerful to read. Can we disagree without being disagreeable?

Ever watch Intervention On A&E Sunday nights? They offer them a choice to go into recovery or not. Some take it, some don't.

LGLG07

thks itfm ... i did answer my own questions with my opinion on them but was still curious as to what others might think . i tend to keep an open mind myself and encourage the different opinions .
i felt very firmly for a long time that it was a choice for my ah to stop drinking and it frustrated the hell out of me that he couldnt choose to quit for me and our kids . it took me a while , at least this past year , to realize that im not dealing with a rational logical man here . alcohol has seriously effected his brain and he has pretty much no sense of reality whatsoever . and ive also learned that its his disease and not mine , he has to quit for himself so he can live a productive life with or without me and the kids . i have nothing to do with it . so if i continue to think its a choice then i think i may be going back on all that i have learned here .

its like if they can choose to quit and wont quit even for their spouses and familys & gfs/bfs , how would we not take that personnally ?

i choose to believe that its a disease , disorder , condition whatever word you might want to use . i dont think , like you said itfm , that every person that has suffered a trauma turn to alcohol but i do think that a lot , not all , of the alcohols have suffered some trauma in their lives . jmho

MsGolightly

i love watching Intervention

i also think that some of those who choose not to go into recovery are unable to make rational decisions, because brain has been so effected by their drug of choice. they have to really want to go, they can't just go because they're on tv and because their family members are telling them to. it has to be something they realize they have a problem with and want to change... in my opinion.

SaTiT

Oh no...people with pride trying to bring out the best in me....

mmm what if i don't wanna be fix...to whatever best is..
maybe i don't want Best...best for you..not best for me..so don't fix me.

maybe i turn my will and life over to a loving god that love's me best for me
and not another human wiht pride telling me what best is ...best for them

maybe i don't wanna be a brain surgeon...but whats best for me is to play music.

Mr. Christian

"its like if they can choose to quit and wont quit even for their spouses and familys & gfs/bfs , how would we not take that personnally ?"


Well to put it bluntly, It’s not about you.

It’s a choice they make in life, on what’s important, how they FEEL.

Us a taking it personally only shows that we don’t get it yet.

We tend to think we can make it better. The only ifs can be our down fall really and not everyone cares that deeply about an relationship.

hope3

I'm not making any excuses, and I'm certainly, not offended

by your opinion Mr. C.

I am saddened by your remarks that any one that is addicted, is immoral

or weak. It would be just as silly of someone to say that anyone who wears a superman shirt must feel the need for power.

And your comment about Mental disorders (bi-polar or Agorophobics) as almost being the flavor of the day.

This is just flat out ignorance in my opinion.

But I do wish you well, and to each there own.

Utah, I will get that information for you (genetics) I read it in the book

addicted. It was based on different studies with mice and rats.

Best wishes, hope3

LGLG07

i dont know if im saying this right . i dont believe for a second that my husbands drinking is about me .. i know its all about him .. i do believe he has a condition or disorder or disease .

im thinking though that if i believed it was a choice for the A to drink or not like many of those that have posted said they believed , wouldnt that be like going back on all that al anon teaches us ? if we believed they had a choice over us or alcohol and they picked alcohol how could we not take it to mean that we are not good enough ?

MsGolightly

LG, i know what you're saying and i think it's what we've all felt at one time or another.

the best answer i can give you is what you already know - that they are sick and their brain is completely and utterly unable to make a choice - even one that could save their life.

their brain is constantly thinking: alcohol, alcohol, alcohol. they crave it, they obsess over it. and yes, i once thought the choice should be easy, if i was so great, that choice should be a piece of cake. but for them, it's not. it's just not.

knowing it's not about you is half the battle of detaching and setting up boundaries. this disease destroys those who haven't sought recovery, and it's sad, it's absolutely heartbreaking, but it's not about us, at all

SaTiT

To put it bluntly it's not about you either
it's all about relationships, a deep loving relationship.
love is not a need, love is not to be earned, love is not tell'in me I'm weak or stupid.
love is not a straight and narrow

you can tell me you love me all you want and tell me what is best
but if you truely love me...you would love as I AM not what you think is best for me.
How can you love me if don't even know who I am ?
the books that you read is not me...so please don't ly to me anymore.
oh...but all i hear is what's best me.

Love cannot be a prisoner of love.
Surely i will not escape from a prison of addiction into another prison of love.
I choose that prison to escape from you...your love of what is best for me.

oh... drugs and alcohol abuss are just the symtom of our deeper problems.
There seem to be a lack of communications....Since you don't hear me.
I will talk to whom ever will talk to me and understand.

mmm.....there's a Al-Anon 12 steps

Mr. Christian

Immoral? I don’t think I’ve said that.
Weak, yes I said that one, that’s why you seek strength in the program.

We do see patterns of the so-called flavor of the day.
There was also a time there where we had everyone find repressed thoughts of being molested till they found out a lot of therapist were putting that in the head of people.

Today we have the chicken littles talking of global warming while 20 years ago the very same people were warning of the next ice age coming.

I think it works better for some to believe it’s a disease. Because if they do then they can still looked at their loved one in a better light then just a drunk or a alcoholic.

Yes there are 12 steps in Alanon.

I know them well.
How about the chapter in the Big Book,- Physician Heal Thyself., or Crossing the River of Denial.
You see I know both books rather well.

You might say that I blindly say things without knowing, but again you underestimate.

SaTiT

How about looking in the mirror and take pride to bring out the best in you ?

What the hell dose global warming has anything to do with this ?
what you can't look in the mirror...always alternative spins

you know it will....oh that's right...you're better than everybody,
why should you work it or apply....your the best already and everybody
should look up to you...so you can bring out the best in them.
that right...those AA folks are loosers..

MsGolightly

say what you will... imply that we're stupid and ignorant for believing that this is a disease of the brain. deny the research and again, tell all of us that we're wrong and you're right. clearly, Mr C, you must be right, because you refuse to acknowledge there is another side.

your arrogance, or whatever you want to call it, is not needed here. people here are hurting, people come here for support. frankly, i can look at my loved one in any light i want to, as we all can. some of us refuse to walk through life with blinders on.. some of us can admit that there is something greater than ourselves or our loved ones at play here. you can "think" it works better for some of us to "think" it's a disease, and again, it's all in your opinion. you can think there was something wrong wtih your ex, that there is something inherently wrong in all of our exes - that they're stupid and make stupid choices, which seems to be what you've been implying all along (in my opinion, i may very well be wrong). but i wholeheartedly disagree with that. i don't think anyone chooses to live this life, i don't think they choose to put their family in so much pain. and i don't think we've got our blinders on to the "truth" or what you claim to be the truth.

socalgal

I just keep saying to myself.
"Principles, not personalities."... and, "Some are sicker than others."...

-K

Mr. Christian

Thou Dost Protest Too Much..


No my friend I do not say there is not anther side, that is what this thread was about, and we are talking about.
Nor do I get mad as some do.


But I wrote what I meant.
Your reading between the lines is your doing.
But with all that said I do stand behind what I have learned.
Please do not confuse confidence with arrogance.

SaTiT

PLease don't confuse being spiritaul with being spineless.

i wrote what i ment...are you still drinking ?

IO Storm

"Thank you, I pride myself in bringing out the best in people."


Mr C: Are you a Christian? Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.....


"Or do I just get people to look at their true selves".


Isn't it God's job to get folks to look at their hearts?


I sure wouldn't want you looking into mine, as judging
(by your own statements) as you are.


"Yes there are smokers at Alanon, but look at the people who have quit drinking and how much more they smoke now."

How do you know? Do you attend AA meetings?

Or, do you observe hapless alcoholics in your circle of friends and family? Poor, poor things. I bet they make themselves scarce.


"Years ago everyone was agoraphobic and afraid to leave the house and today everyone is BI-polar."

I was recently diagnosed with bipolar type I, and it was hard to accept.

I had 4 opininions before starting a treatment regime. You see, Mr.

Christian, I so much much wanted to be clean and sober of everything.

I almost refused medical treatment that would have resulted in more

pain for myself and all who love and care about me. As far as "choosing"

to be an alcoholic? First drink when I was 12. I thought I'd died and

gone to heaven. Not much of that until my divorce when I was 34.

Christian wife and mother all the way. Tee totaller. When I picked up at

age 34, I could not stop. Could not. Pure hell for me and everyone else.

Mr C:

I am not offended by you. Ignorance doth not offend me.


In love,

:

Sherry

Mr. Christian

Drink very little.

Attend open AA meetings


Many friends in all circles.

Raised Catholic.


And you are forgiven Sherry

socalgal

Forgiven for what???

Are you kidding me? Do you now have the power to absolve people of their sins? Are you implying that she has sinned?

Are you trying to be humorous or are you trying to offend?

-K