A Choice???
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
i loved that river metaphor! how perfect.
you know, i thought of something in the meantime that reminded me of the sugar in your coffee... i was told many years ago that i was addicted to caffeine... which IS a drug, and which many of us are probably addicted to!
while it might not have the negative side effects of alcohol, i am completely unable and unwilling to give it up. i've tried before, and i've gone through withdrawals and had migraines, that could only be cured with caffeine. the thought of giving it up terrifies me! while i know i could do it, i just don't want to. anyway...
you know, i thought of something in the meantime that reminded me of the sugar in your coffee... i was told many years ago that i was addicted to caffeine... which IS a drug, and which many of us are probably addicted to!
while it might not have the negative side effects of alcohol, i am completely unable and unwilling to give it up. i've tried before, and i've gone through withdrawals and had migraines, that could only be cured with caffeine. the thought of giving it up terrifies me! while i know i could do it, i just don't want to. anyway... 
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Originally Posted by Utahman 
They started to drink b/c they liked to get drunk.
That is the choice they made! Don't blame it on anyone but them.
That is the choice they made! Don't blame it on anyone but them.
I take full responsibility for my alcoholism...always have and always will. I do know that something completely irrational happens when I begin to drink that I myself cannot understand. It's like a vacuum and its insatiable.
I'm pretty well read on addiction yet I myself, as a person with addiction problems, cannot come to any cut and dry conclusions about addiction. I prefer to remain open to all answers and possibilities rather than limit my thinking to the certainty of one easy answer.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: By the sea
Posts: 415
I think that some people have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism: their physiology is different than non-alcoholics - they react differently to the substance. That part is not a choice.
But the individual personality part comes into play in how they choose to deal with their relationship to alcohol.
For example, a good friend of mine, when we were in college, began to notice that she felt a compulsion to keep drinking once she had started. She quickly moved to deal with this by totally stopping drinking. She hasn't drank since. Her decision to nip it in the bud stemmed from the kind of person she is - her personality.
On a personal level, I once was prescribed xanax for panic attacks. I quickly realized that I loved the feeling they gave me. When I noticed that I was taking them more often, I flushed them all down the toilet. I did not want to become addicted. I CHOSE to separate myself from the drug. Perhaps if I were a different person I would have ignored the danger I sensed and kept on taking them. This is where personality differences make a difference. And I do not mean to imply that I am so special for being able to do this...hell no...I just got lucky.
My AH could have decided to go to rehab when his drinking began to destroy our relationship (or even sooner). But he did not. He chose to keep drinking and ignore the warning signs that his life was falling apart. I've often asked myself if alcohol had affected his brain so deeply at that point that he just couldn't think rationally anymore. Yet, when I finally was able to get him into a detox, he started drinking the minute he got out. That seems like a choice to me. He could have asked them to keep him there for longer. It might just be that he was born a very weak person who cannot resist strong urges. Whatever the case, it is so sad. It's not fair. Because he is a good person.
The choices we make are reflections of our personalities...and our personalities are partly stuff that we're just born with, and partly stuff that happens to us in life (nature vs. nurture).
I don't blame him for have a predilection for the drink; but I do blame him for not taking control and getting help. To me, that is a reflection, sadly, of his personality.
But the individual personality part comes into play in how they choose to deal with their relationship to alcohol.
For example, a good friend of mine, when we were in college, began to notice that she felt a compulsion to keep drinking once she had started. She quickly moved to deal with this by totally stopping drinking. She hasn't drank since. Her decision to nip it in the bud stemmed from the kind of person she is - her personality.
On a personal level, I once was prescribed xanax for panic attacks. I quickly realized that I loved the feeling they gave me. When I noticed that I was taking them more often, I flushed them all down the toilet. I did not want to become addicted. I CHOSE to separate myself from the drug. Perhaps if I were a different person I would have ignored the danger I sensed and kept on taking them. This is where personality differences make a difference. And I do not mean to imply that I am so special for being able to do this...hell no...I just got lucky.
My AH could have decided to go to rehab when his drinking began to destroy our relationship (or even sooner). But he did not. He chose to keep drinking and ignore the warning signs that his life was falling apart. I've often asked myself if alcohol had affected his brain so deeply at that point that he just couldn't think rationally anymore. Yet, when I finally was able to get him into a detox, he started drinking the minute he got out. That seems like a choice to me. He could have asked them to keep him there for longer. It might just be that he was born a very weak person who cannot resist strong urges. Whatever the case, it is so sad. It's not fair. Because he is a good person.
The choices we make are reflections of our personalities...and our personalities are partly stuff that we're just born with, and partly stuff that happens to us in life (nature vs. nurture).
I don't blame him for have a predilection for the drink; but I do blame him for not taking control and getting help. To me, that is a reflection, sadly, of his personality.
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
Just like we are genetically predisposed to other things,
hair color, cancer, etc, we are predisposed to alcoholism.
It's not the only reason, it does'nt make us alcoholics, but,
with this and other factors in place. It makes it easier for that
person to be an alcoholic. According to research anyway.
Hope3
hair color, cancer, etc, we are predisposed to alcoholism.
It's not the only reason, it does'nt make us alcoholics, but,
with this and other factors in place. It makes it easier for that
person to be an alcoholic. According to research anyway.
Hope3
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 20
I agree with most of what you say. I do believe there is genetics involved, just not within a country mile of how many people use it as an excuse. After speaking with two geneticists at the U of Utah reasearch center, there is no DNA strand identified as the "link" to addiction. They know there is something in common but no scientific evidence. Do you have clinical reasearch data to support the "fact" that X percent of addicts are genetically disposed to becoming addicted??
I would read it with eyes wide open.....
I would read it with eyes wide open.....
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Originally Posted by SaTiT
mmm..step #2 applies for both codi and alki (restore to sanity)
My gf is a social worker for crying out loud...i think she see enough
from day to day of how alcohol can destroy lives...
So why did she continue drinking ??? A lack of moral judgement ?
It is also a known ...if an alcoholic works his/hers program of recovery
and the codi still stays denial.
The recoverying alki will live a happier and healthy life than the codi
still in denial, Becuase life gose on.
here is the answer how I can have a relationship with my GF I work my CODI 12 steps.
My gf is a social worker for crying out loud...i think she see enough
from day to day of how alcohol can destroy lives...
So why did she continue drinking ??? A lack of moral judgement ?
It is also a known ...if an alcoholic works his/hers program of recovery
and the codi still stays denial.
The recoverying alki will live a happier and healthy life than the codi
still in denial, Becuase life gose on.
here is the answer how I can have a relationship with my GF I work my CODI 12 steps.
as a matter of fact, there are specialists in addiction (addictionologists, MD's) in recovery themselves. I know one. Who can know better the devastation of addiction yet they can become addicted. It is something that really takes control of the persong thought processes.
Again, recovering addicts say it was the pain exceeding the pleasure that motivated them to stop.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by Sunflower
look up---google alcoholics and seratonin
Here is what came up first
"Relationship Remains Unclear Despite Continued Research"
No hard evidence but there is some kind of link. I hope they find it and can isolate the gene....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 20
This is a quote from the Researchers at the Molecular Neurobiology Branch of the Natl Institute on Drug abuse
Genetic Tendency No Guarantee:
Because someone has a genetic tendency to develop a disease, it does not guarantee they will have the disease, only that they are at higher risk for doing so than the average person.
National Institutes of Health officials say, however, if the genes responsible for a high risk of substance abuse can be pinpointed, it could revolutionize treatment and prevention of alcoholism.
Genetic Tendency No Guarantee:
Because someone has a genetic tendency to develop a disease, it does not guarantee they will have the disease, only that they are at higher risk for doing so than the average person.
National Institutes of Health officials say, however, if the genes responsible for a high risk of substance abuse can be pinpointed, it could revolutionize treatment and prevention of alcoholism.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
mmm...you can't trun a pickle back to a cucumber..
I don't drink anymore...I used up my mind altering, mood changing
chemicle dependency. In other words I'll never be cured.
In other words I crossed the threshole.
It dosn't matter to me one way or the other what other
people think....they don't pay my bill.lol
I got sober and i needed help...so be it.
I'm living a happy heahty life today...
In other words " nobody pays rent in my head"
I use to be a functioning alcoholic too. (soaking in vinegar)
well...of course i didn't consider myself an alki when it was still working.
...of course i nevered looked into understanding alcoholism when it was
working...why the heck would I need to control it, if it was still working.
in other words i use to be ... ignorant...
I don't drink anymore...I used up my mind altering, mood changing
chemicle dependency. In other words I'll never be cured.
In other words I crossed the threshole.
It dosn't matter to me one way or the other what other
people think....they don't pay my bill.lol
I got sober and i needed help...so be it.
I'm living a happy heahty life today...
In other words " nobody pays rent in my head"
I use to be a functioning alcoholic too. (soaking in vinegar)
well...of course i didn't consider myself an alki when it was still working.
...of course i nevered looked into understanding alcoholism when it was
working...why the heck would I need to control it, if it was still working.
in other words i use to be ... ignorant...
Last edited by SaTiT; 04-16-2007 at 04:21 PM.
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
Thank you, I pride myself in bringing out the best in people. Or do I just get people to look at their true selves.
Whichever the case this is a thought provoking subject.
I marvel at the amount of alcoholics who will disagree with me.
I said before, blaming others and not doing for oneself is something most of us have seen from our “As.
Yes there are smokers at Alanon, but look at the people who have quit drinking and how much more they smoke now.
What I say here is just the obvious, we ignore or don’t want to see things sometimes, never the less they are there.
Yes the functioning alcoholic, are they not all that way at first?
Now genetics lets look at that blame game.
So you say since my mother was one and grandmother was one, hey I must be one, or maybe I can be?
Sorry to disappoint you there, hardly drink here at all. Don’t really need it to handle life.
For those of you who think I might have a bone to pick, your wrong again.
Being a realist does not make you a bitter person.
I’m also sure the comment about the Muslims is true to exceptions, but lets face it, we have it here in spades cause its every where. But as a rule we no the score with that one.
We sometimes feel when someone comes up with something new that it must be truth.
Not always so.
We believe in God and have faith with something that we are told are wrong in this day and age.
Not all psychobabble is real, we like to think it is, then we don’t have to look in the mirror.
Whichever the case this is a thought provoking subject.
I marvel at the amount of alcoholics who will disagree with me.
I said before, blaming others and not doing for oneself is something most of us have seen from our “As.
Yes there are smokers at Alanon, but look at the people who have quit drinking and how much more they smoke now.
What I say here is just the obvious, we ignore or don’t want to see things sometimes, never the less they are there.
Yes the functioning alcoholic, are they not all that way at first?
Now genetics lets look at that blame game.
So you say since my mother was one and grandmother was one, hey I must be one, or maybe I can be?
Sorry to disappoint you there, hardly drink here at all. Don’t really need it to handle life.
For those of you who think I might have a bone to pick, your wrong again.
Being a realist does not make you a bitter person.
I’m also sure the comment about the Muslims is true to exceptions, but lets face it, we have it here in spades cause its every where. But as a rule we no the score with that one.
We sometimes feel when someone comes up with something new that it must be truth.
Not always so.
We believe in God and have faith with something that we are told are wrong in this day and age.
Not all psychobabble is real, we like to think it is, then we don’t have to look in the mirror.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
Originally Posted by Mr. Christian
Now genetics lets look at that blame game.
So you say since my mother was one and grandmother was one, hey I must be one, or maybe I can be?
Sorry to disappoint you there, hardly drink here at all. Don’t really need it to handle life.
Mr C - you've missed the point we're trying to make.
just because your mother and grandmother were alcoholics does not make you one by trade. everyone's brain is vastly different. every personality is different. you are not the same as anyone else in the world. if it runs in your blood, so what, it runs in your blood. it accounts for the drinking of some, not all, which is what we have been saying. so because my mother and grandmother have blonde hair, does that mean i have to?
a lot of the psychobabble may not be true, but neither is a lot of what you are saying. understanding psychology and various disorders is something that requires an open mind and a kind heart. i find it unfortunate that you are unable to look past what has been done to you by your ex, and that you are unwilling to see her in another light.
by no means was anyone saying that if alcoholism runs in your family, you too will be an alcoholic. as NEG mentioned, it's part nature and part nuture.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
and i kind of resent the comment about using alcohol to handle life.
some people are dealt a rotten hand of cards. some people have been abused as children, some people witness the death of a parent, the suicide of a lover. alcohol isn't used to handle life, and i find it condescending that you would even say that. perhaps your life has been easier than the average life of the alcoholic, perhaps things have come easier to you.
just because you're sober doesn't mean you are better than any alcoholic. we're all human and we all deserve to be treated with some compassion.
some people are dealt a rotten hand of cards. some people have been abused as children, some people witness the death of a parent, the suicide of a lover. alcohol isn't used to handle life, and i find it condescending that you would even say that. perhaps your life has been easier than the average life of the alcoholic, perhaps things have come easier to you.
just because you're sober doesn't mean you are better than any alcoholic. we're all human and we all deserve to be treated with some compassion.
Let Go Let God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: jersey shore
Posts: 437
do you think then , that when an A takes their first drink .. they know then that they are an alcoholic ? or do you think that it takes some serious drinking time before they realize the drinking is effecting their life ? and also do you think that the longer they drink , the more dependent they become on the alcohol therefore making it harder for them to make the choice to quit , even if they know its the right thing to do ?
im just curious as to anybodys opinion as im still brainstorming this myself
im just curious as to anybodys opinion as im still brainstorming this myself
Let Go Let God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: jersey shore
Posts: 437
oh and for the record , i forgot to mention .. in relation to my last post , i dont think an alcoholic knows with their 1st that they are an alcoholic , i do think it takes time for the disorder or condition or disease if you will to be awaken and i think by the time it is effecting ones life , its too late for them to make a rational decision to quit no matter how right they think that is
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
LG, i think you answered your question in your second post!
i think that, yeah, they become dependent on it... they crave it, are addicted to it, need it more than anything. addiction is all just an obsession. an unhealthy, destructive one at that.
i also think, at least with some, that they don't even realize that the right choice is to quit. it never even registers because the alcohol is whispering in their brain that what they're doing is fine... to keep having more and more and everything will be fine. but for the rest of them, i think they do get to a point where they say, wow, i have a problem. my life is shot!
i hope so anyway
i think that, yeah, they become dependent on it... they crave it, are addicted to it, need it more than anything. addiction is all just an obsession. an unhealthy, destructive one at that.
i also think, at least with some, that they don't even realize that the right choice is to quit. it never even registers because the alcohol is whispering in their brain that what they're doing is fine... to keep having more and more and everything will be fine. but for the rest of them, i think they do get to a point where they say, wow, i have a problem. my life is shot!
i hope so anyway
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
Compassion and a kind heart are one thing, truth is another.
Not everyone who has had a rough life turns to booze.
Not every abused child turns to drugs.
The way you cope with things determines the out come.
As far as my life being easier that the average alcoholic, nope your wrong again, sorry to disappoint you on that one.
And yes your statement about being dealt a loosing hand somehow allows you to drink; you pretty much would then use it as an excuse.
No, no life of ease or privilege here.
Oh yes I see past the stuff my ex did. Us codies held too much on to that kind heart and so called compassion much to long.
When we do so the light and understand the manipulation of the alcoholic, they can no longer use us.
Poor me only works for so long.
Not everyone who has had a rough life turns to booze.
Not every abused child turns to drugs.
The way you cope with things determines the out come.
As far as my life being easier that the average alcoholic, nope your wrong again, sorry to disappoint you on that one.
And yes your statement about being dealt a loosing hand somehow allows you to drink; you pretty much would then use it as an excuse.
No, no life of ease or privilege here.
Oh yes I see past the stuff my ex did. Us codies held too much on to that kind heart and so called compassion much to long.
When we do so the light and understand the manipulation of the alcoholic, they can no longer use us.
Poor me only works for so long.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
I am not trying to speak for another member, but I don't believe that InThisForMe was saying 'poor me'. My impression of the post, was that she was saying some of us do not have the tools we need to deal with the issues life has dealt us. So, we make the wrong choices. Life is a learning experience. This is not manipulation.
One of my favorite quotes is from Maya Angelou: "I did what I knew how to do, and when I knew better, I did better".
One of my favorite quotes is from Maya Angelou: "I did what I knew how to do, and when I knew better, I did better".
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